Marcus Freeman Revisited

[TheProspector]

Although severely flawed at certain positions, the team Freeman took over was miles better than the one Kelly inherited.

Miles better is certainly false. Interesting discussion though.

QB: Buchner/Pyne vs Crist/Rees - I’ll say Push

RB: Diggs/Tyree/Estime vs Jonas Gray/Cierre/Armando Allen/ Robert Hughes - Pretty even here as well.

WR: Lenzy/Avery Davis/Styles vs Mike Floyd/Riddick/TJ Jones - Huge advantage 2010

TE: Mike Mayer/Takacs/Bauman vs Rudolph/Eifert - Advantage 2010

OL: Alt/Kristofic/Patterson/Lugg/Fisher vs Martin/Watt/Cave/Trevor Robinson/Taylor Dever - Fairly even imo here. Maybe slight edge 2022.

DL: Ademilolas/Cross/Foskey vs Ian Williams/KLM/Ethan Johnson/Cwynar/Shembo- Pretty close, but I’ll go 2022

LB: Bertrand/Kiser/Liufau vs. Manti/Fleming/Calabrese - I’ll go 2010

CB: Morrison/Hart/Bracy vs. Blanton/Gray/Walls - 2022

S: Joseph/Brown/Griffith/Watts vs. Harrison/Motta/Slaughter - 2010 no question.

 

[Irish du Nord]

Miles better is certainly false. Interesting discussion though.

QB: Buchner/Pyne vs Crist/Rees - I’ll say Push

RB: Diggs/Tyree/Estime vs Jonas Gray/Cierre/Armando Allen/ Robert Hughes - Pretty even here as well.

WR: Lenzy/Avery Davis/Styles vs Mike Floyd/Riddick/TJ Jones - Huge advantage 2010

TE: Mike Mayer/Takacs/Bauman vs Rudolph/Eifert - Advantage 2010

OL: Alt/Kristofic/Patterson/Lugg/Fisher vs Martin/Watt/Cave/Trevor Robinson/Taylor Dever - Fairly even imo here. Maybe slight edge 2022.

DL: Ademilolas/Cross/Foskey vs Ian Williams/KLM/Ethan Johnson/Cwynar/Shembo- Pretty close, but I’ll go 2022

LB: Bertrand/Kiser/Liufau vs. Manti/Fleming/Calabrese - I’ll go 2010

CB: Morrison/Hart/Bracy vs. Blanton/Gray/Walls - 2022

S: Joseph/Brown/Griffith/Watts vs. Harrison/Motta/Slaughter - 2010 no question.

I think with all these teams if you’re going to have success you need to be more than the some of your parts. 2022 was while 2010 wasn’t. You illustrated the lack of talent gap though, I’m very confident we had a higher blue chip ratio in 2010

 

[stlnd01]

I think with all these teams if you’re going to have success you need to be more than the some of your parts. 2022 was while 2010 wasn’t. You illustrated the lack of talent gap though, I’m very confident we had a higher blue chip ratio in 2010

Weis left Kelly with good talent but a broken culture.
Kelly left Freeman with a good culture but insufficient talent to meet our goals.

In both cases we hired to address a major shortcoming of the prior regime, with, at least, some success. But other, new, challenges and shortcomings emerged. Like Jigg I'm not sure the point of comparing the two.

Time is a flat circle. Life goes on. Someday the coach we were promised will piece it all together in the right moment. There is always hope.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm fine with Freeman getting on the players during a game if warranted. He played the good cop bad cop with Shuler which is the way any good coach should handle it. Players need to know MF is going to hold them accountable and not just be their buddy.

 

[OKCDomer23]

I'm fine with Freeman getting on the players during a game if warranted. He played the good cop bad cop with Shuler which is the way any good coach should handle it. Players need to know MF is going to hold them accountable and not just be their buddy.

Totally agree with this. Honestly think his outlook on his coaching and overall being nice may have changed some after the NIU loss. He understood he needed to make changes. I didn't think the Miami (OH) was as unimpressive of a victory as others. A few bumps and a rough offensive start, but overall still fairly convincing. Team results have been much better since the upset. Louisville game will be telling.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

My only point is that the guy making 5 million to run an aspiring championship football program does not necessarily have to check himself for yelling at a player who made a impactful mental error. Shuler's screw up kept a drive alive and is a standing team rule.
I also believe there are times where yelling is a fine and an appropriate choice for a football coach to make about something that happened in a football game. I think coach boom is exactly where he should be, but there is still nuance.

I don't disagree. I said I was fine with how Freeman handled it.

Muschamp, specifically, was a screamer. In hindsight for him, it probably didn't work for him to be frequently losing his mind like a lunatic on the sidelines.

 

[INLaw]

I can tell you for certain that kids today do not respond to how we were coached in the 80s and 90s. They shut down or they just fucking quit. Perhaps that's a separate issue entirely, and we've had this discussion at various points in various threads, but we're ultimately not saving lives or in the military here. It's just sports. There are more effective routes to teaching and coaching. Yes, it worked for Saban, but consider that most things worked for Saban and didn't work for just about everyone else.

We all have our moments. When your moments are frequent, maybe that works and maybe it doesn't, but at some point you get tuned out by the majority of the people in the room and if the screaming was ever effective it ceases to be. Freeman had a moment with Shuler. Hopefully it was effective.

Raise your hand 🙋‍♂️ if you were coached by your father for at least one season
Raise your hand 🙋‍♂️ if you also learned how far the walk home was that same season

 

[MacIrish75]

Honestly if he really loves the university as much as he says, he’ll resign.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Yeah resigning after beating #15, brilliant.

 

[IrishTusker]

The RL experiment cannot continue. Enough.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Honestly if he really loves the university as much as he says, he’ll resign.

WTF is wrong w you? Resign from the site. Weak take. Sick of you bedwetters.

 

[calvegas04]

Still not the guy to take us to the promise land

 

[T-Boone]

It just seems like he should be learning the ropes at a smaller school. He seems to be working on his personality.

 

[NorthDakota]

Notre Dame is one of the best jobs in football. Hasn't won a big post-season game since I was a baby. (I'm 32 years old).

I'm just exhausted watching ND look inept year after year on one side of the ball or the other.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

STUD

 

[MacIrish75]

WTF is wrong w you? Resign from the site. Weak take. Sick of you bedwetters.

Lol I’ll own that post.

I was frustrated. 🤷🏼‍♂️. I absolutely think he struggles with in-game adjustments and the feel for the game eludes him pretty frequently, but he won today.

 

[IrishLax]

Let’s all be fair with both our criticisms and accolades.

 

[Hautian Domer]

My takes:

1. Seems like a nice, likable guy.
2. Loyal to players. Arguably to a detriment
3. Has demonstrated he can get big time coordinators.
4. Good recruiter / transfers (say what you will, Hartman and Leonard were top commodities). Is he elite though?
5. Very, very questionable in game decisions
6. Has a poor understanding of clock management
7. Lacks attention to detail / not a perfectionist
8. Team is inconsistent and often unprepared

I don’t know at this point …

​

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

My takes:

1. Seems like a nice, likable guy.
2. Loyal to players. Arguably to a detriment
3. Has demonstrated he can get big time coordinators.
4. Good recruiter / transfers (say what you will, Hartman and Leonard were top commodities). Is he elite though?
5. Very, very questionable in game decisions
6. Has a poor understanding of clock management
7. Lacks attention to detail / not a perfectionist
8. Team is inconsistent and often unprepared

I don’t know at this point …

​

Fair post and whether you love or hate MF most of these points are hard to disagree with.

 

[pumpdog20]

My takes:

1. Seems like a nice, likable guy.
2. Loyal to players. Arguably to a detriment
3. Has demonstrated he can get big time coordinators.
4. Good recruiter / transfers (say what you will, Hartman and Leonard were top commodities). Is he elite though?
5. Very, very questionable in game decisions
6. Has a poor understanding of clock management
7. Lacks attention to detail / not a perfectionist
8. Team is inconsistent and often unprepared

I don’t know at this point …

​

I don't feel there was issues with 5 or 6 this game.

Pretty impressive win. Not sure many teams post Holtz win testing the depth this team has had to.

 

[rikkitikki08]

He’s definitely been keeping his distance with the media. His personality has changed since NIU. Curious if one of his mentors gave him some advice

 

[notredomer23]

I don't feel there was issues with 5 or 6 this game.

Pretty impressive win. Not sure many teams post Holtz win testing the depth this team has had to.

Definitely not 6 in the context of Jeff Brohm blowing all his timeouts with more than 5 minutes left.

 

[Riddickulous]

My takes:

1. Seems like a nice, likable guy.
2. Loyal to players. Arguably to a detriment
3. Has demonstrated he can get big time coordinators.
4. Good recruiter / transfers (say what you will, Hartman and Leonard were top commodities). Is he elite though?
5. Very, very questionable in game decisions
6. Has a poor understanding of clock management
7. Lacks attention to detail / not a perfectionist
8. Team is inconsistent and often unprepared

I don’t know at this point …

​

Sounds like a young coach with no experience prior to taking the job.

 

[Grahambo]

I don’t know if I’m in the minority but I still like him as the HC. From a realistic options standpoint, I’m not sure who would take over him.

Again, realistic options.

 

[stlnd01]

I don’t know if I’m in the minority but I still like him as the HC. From a realistic options standpoint, I’m not sure who would take over him.

Again, realistic options.

Agreed, and I think issues like 5 and 6 on Hautian's list are things he can learn. Unlike 2 and 4 which are more akin to personality traits you either have or you don't - he does - and which in this day and age are probably more important than your in-game coaching anyway.

If we run Freeman off to replace him with some G5 or mid-major coach who may have more experience but has never been anywhere close to this sort of stage, is that really better? Regardless Freeman's not going anywhere for at least another season and a half.

 

[MacIrish75]

I certainly was overly critical of him yesterday, but I also agree with the premise that he’s who we’ve got and we need to support him and hope he can improve in some areas—particularly when it comes to preparation and adjustments. No doubt he’s a good dude with high character…but we need him to become a good coach just as much.

I’m just so sick of seeing us come out flat and having these massive special teams miscues (which may be more a Biagi problem) that hand the other team instant momentum. We’re resilient over the long term, but we do not execute well in “quick change” scenarios.

I also think just because we (collectively…except Reaper) haven’t ever coached at this level, it doesn’t relegate us from being critical of MF and some of his decisions, player usage, and the general team preparedness.

 

[Jeffwantpoppers]

I really like Freeman and think he’s grown every year.

The only issue I had with him yesterday was going for it late in the 4th up 14. Punt the ball and force them to go 90 yards.


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[IrishLax]

My big picture take is that he is great at getting his team “up” for big games. In his first three seasons he is 12-3 ATS in games where the line is a TD or less. Meaning when he’s playing a good opponent / opponent of comparable talent his team is over performing expectations 80% of the time.

He has also done a good job of recruiting and that’s how this team is still competitive despite being on their 9th offensive lineman and losing other critical starters.

Overall team discipline, in game management of clock/situation, etc. all seem nowhere close to where they need to be which is how he’s to three grossly inferior opponents in 30 games.

 

[mrmcgrail]

The thing I've noticed is all 3 really bad losses have come when we don't have a quarterback who is consistent. There is a reason last year we destroyed bad teams with Hartman. Whatever you think of Sam he was a good college quarterback and against teams worse than nd they torched them. It's hard to win when you constantly put your defense in a bind and on the field

 

[IrishLax]

Also… I have faith that Denbrock can coordinate a good offense if he has the pieces. But the incoming class doesn’t move the needle at all, and the guys currently playing — with the exception of Love — don’t either. As HC, he has to find a way to get better skill players or he’s never going to win anything meaningful.