Foreign Policy

[Bishop2b5]

 

[Bishop2b5]

I frequently point out and ridicule the woke leftists who just mindlessly parrot whatever nonsense and propaganda they're fed without putting a bit of thought into whether it makes sense or is accurate. They're more concerned with virtue signaling and parroting what the other cool kids are saying than thinking for themselves. This dude is the poster child for what I'm talking about.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I frequently point out and ridicule the woke leftists who just mindlessly parrot whatever nonsense and propaganda they're fed without putting a bit of thought into whether it makes sense or is accurate. They're more concerned with virtue signaling and parroting what the other cool kids are saying than thinking for themselves. This dude is the poster child for what I'm talking about.

Sums up all of these people.

 

[drayer54]

Here's the American fake propaganda account. Our President, who has applied more pressure to Israel than Hamas or Iran, is really desperate to appease the anti-Israel base.

 

[calvegas04]

Here's the American fake propaganda account. Our President, who has applied more pressure to Israel than Hamas or Iran, is really desperate to appease the anti-Israel base.

Sounds like what trump wants to do to Ukraine, except Ukraine is fighting a former super power and Israel is fighting desert people

 

[IrishLax]

Biden is 100% beholden to a bunch of “too online” Ivy League grads (or the like) as advisors. There is no one besides Leftists that are pro-Hamas. He is trying to “both sides” an issue that you simply can’t.

He is going to soundly lose reelection at this point because he is alienating the moderates who voted for him last election. I have no interest in siding with a bunch of woke terrorist lovers that hate white people.

 

[Irish#1]

What happened to all of his foreign policy experience he touted when he was running for POTUS?

 

[drayer54]

What happened to all of his foreign policy experience he touted when he was running for POTUS?

Cal Ripken even admires this streak.

 

[Sea Turtle]

What happened to all of his foreign policy experience he touted when he was running for POTUS?

Well, none of this was supposed to happen because Trump was out of office and was replaced by a Democrat.

Russia and Ukraine, Hamas and Israel, Iran and Hezbollah, Venezuela and Guyana, Azerbaijan and Armenia, the Afghan withdrawl.....all just coincidence.

 

[PerthDomer]

Biden is 100% beholden to a bunch of “too online” Ivy League grads (or the like) as advisors. There is no one besides Leftists that are pro-Hamas. He is trying to “both sides” an issue that you simply can’t.

He is going to soundly lose reelection at this point because he is alienating the moderates who voted for him last election. I have no interest in siding with a bunch of woke terrorist lovers that hate white people.

Telling Bibi he doesn't have a blank check seems like the correct move here.

Israel winning in the long run requires they make peace with their Arab neighbors. That will be incredibly difficult if Bibi/Ben Gvir are dictating the response to Hamas.

 

[PerthDomer]

Well, none of this was supposed to happen because Trump was out of office and was replaced by a Democrat.

Russia and Ukraine, Hamas and Israel, Iran and Hezbollah, Venezuela and Guyana, Azerbaijan and Armenia, the Afghan withdrawl.....all just coincidence.

Wait... are we blaming Biden for every war on the globe or even election posturing regarding Venezuela? What did you want Biden to do about Armenia losing Russian backing vs. The Azeris?

I'd also state that George HW Bush was the best foreign policy president of my lifetime. Dude had to scramble a coalition to invade Kuwait because Iraq invaded even though we told them not to.

 

[Irish#1]

Telling Bibi he doesn't have a blank check seems like the correct move here.

Israel winning in the long run requires they make peace with their Arab neighbors. That will be incredibly difficult if Bibi/Ben Gvir are dictating the response to Hamas.

While their Arab neighbor brutally attacks them.

 

[PerthDomer]

While their Arab neighbor brutally attacks them.

By that I mean Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, etc. The moderate anti Iran bloc.

That bloc will get pissed off if Israel levels Rafah, kills a bunch of non Hamas Palestinians, and predictably does not actually eliminate Hamas.

 

[tussin]

By that I mean Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, etc. The moderate anti Iran bloc.

That bloc will get pissed off if Israel levels Rafah, kills a bunch of non Hamas Palestinians, and predictably does not actually eliminate Hamas.

I think you may be the first person to ever describe Lebanon is "moderate". If Egypt is so concerned about this then they should accept the Palestinian refugees; that, of course, is not the case and no Arab country actually wants to deal with anything to do with Gaza.

 

[greyhammer90]

Biden is 100% beholden to a bunch of “too online” Ivy League grads (or the like) as advisors. There is no one besides Leftists that are pro-Hamas. He is trying to “both sides” an issue that you simply can’t.

He is going to soundly lose reelection at this point because he is alienating the moderates who voted for him last election. I have no interest in siding with a bunch of woke terrorist lovers that hate white people.

I might be proven totally wrong about this but I really don't see this affecting the election in November. I know very few people who care about this issue, and the ones that are vocal about it already have an axe to grind and are happy to be given an excuse to grind it. It seems to me that the average low/middle class person really doesn't give a shit about Israel or Hamas. They do care about inflation and interest rates though.

 

[TorontoGold]

I think you may be the first person to ever describe Lebanon is "moderate". If Egypt is so concerned about this then they should accept the Palestinian refugees; that, of course, is not the case and no Arab country actually wants to deal with anything to do with Gaza.

Except Hezbollah is Shia, and Palestinians are almost exclusively Sunni. Of course their distaste for Israel takes priority to disliking Sunni's but it's not like they're going to open their borders to have a huge inflow of Sunni's.

Egypt already dealt with the Nakba.

Syria? Well it's not exactly a rational place. Doesn't exactly help that Hamas supported the 2011 civil war and Assad is a fucking madman.

Surrounding countries do take in the refugees, but why should every single Palestinian be removed? It's just further destabilizing to create the environment for Hamas entities to rise up. If people think Arab countries Israel now, it'll be 100x worse if they have 3 million people who got removed from their homes.

 

[RDU Irish]

Telling Bibi he doesn't have a blank check seems like the correct move here.

Israel winning in the long run requires they make peace with their Arab neighbors. That will be incredibly difficult if Bibi/Ben Gvir are dictating the response to Hamas.

I'm all for sending $0 to Israel and an equal installment to Ukraine. We have zero legs to stand on in criticizing Israel's response considering we spent a trillion bucks hunting goat fvckers for 20 years in response to five planes getting hijacked.

 

[greyhammer90]

I'm all for sending $0 to Israel and an equal installment to Ukraine. We have zero legs to stand on in criticizing Israel's response considering we spent a trillion bucks hunting goat fvckers for 20 years in response to five planes getting hijacked.

If nothing else I bet the Pentagon has watched both the Israel/Hamas and Russia/Ukraine conflict with a lot of interest from a messaging/footage perspective. Its a whole new world now. Military operations like Shock and Awe take on a different flavor when every citizen has a camera and can live stream the destruction to social media. Blowback on the homefront is going to be harder and harder to avoid.

 

[PerthDomer]

I think you may be the first person to ever describe Lebanon is "moderate". If Egypt is so concerned about this then they should accept the Palestinian refugees; that, of course, is not the case and no Arab country actually wants to deal with anything to do with Gaza.

Lebanon would be a moderate country if Hezbollah could be defanged. The state itself is moderate though weak/impotent. Beirut was the Paris of the Middle East before the Civil War and Hezbollah setting up shop. The Christians/Sunnis together outnumber the Shia and the Shia and the Shia aren't reproducing as quickly. They currently make up 32% of the population.

If you set up a Palestinian state and things go well, that weakens Iran. You get the Arabs to push back into the Yemeni civil war including actual ground troops. You get the Saudis to drive the price of oil down and you crank up sanctions.

If you push into Rafah and keep going till Hamas stops existing then the war never ends and you strengthen Iran. Hamas is popping up in other places that zisrael declared victory. Just like in Iraq they can clear a neighborhood but they can't hold it

 

[PerthDomer]

I might be proven totally wrong about this but I really don't see this affecting the election in November. I know very few people who care about this issue, and the ones that are vocal about it already have an axe to grind and are happy to be given an excuse to grind it. It seems to me that the average low/middle class person really doesn't give a shit about Israel or Hamas. They do care about inflation and interest rates though.

The war creates a risk premium for oil and the Houthi thing drives up shipping costs. It also splits the far left off of the dem coalition. I agree it won't be a top 2 issue but at the margins it hurts Biden if it's still going.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Wait... are we blaming Biden for every war on the globe or even election posturing regarding Venezuela? What did you want Biden to do about Armenia losing Russian backing vs. The Azeris?

I'd also state that George HW Bush was the best foreign policy president of my lifetime. Dude had to scramble a coalition to invade Kuwait because Iraq invaded even though we told them not to.

No. I'm sure it's a coincidence that the world waa set on fire, including the first war in Europe since ww2, when he came to office. I'm afraid the cherry on top will be China invading Taiwan very soon.

I agree that Daddy Bush is underrated, foreign policy wise.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Lebanon would be a moderate country if Hezbollah could be defanged. The state itself is moderate though weak/impotent. Beirut was the Paris of the Middle East before the Civil War and Hezbollah setting up shop. The Christians/Sunnis together outnumber the Shia and the Shia and the Shia aren't reproducing as quickly. They currently make up 32% of the population.

If you set up a Palestinian state and things go well, that weakens Iran. You get the Arabs to push back into the Yemeni civil war including actual ground troops. You get the Saudis to drive the price of oil down and you crank up sanctions.

If you push into Rafah and keep going till Hamas stops existing then the war never ends and you strengthen Iran. Hamas is popping up in other places that zisrael declared victory. Just like in Iraq they can clear a neighborhood but they can't hold it

Lebanon and Jordan are why other Middle Eastern and African countries are not 'no' but 'HELL NO' when the question of taking in Palestinians is asked.

They completely destroyed Lebanon as a functioning state and permanently injured Jordan to the point that they are basically a vassal state to Israel now.

 

[TorontoGold]

lmao Palestinians at destroyed Lebanon and Jordan. Couldn't be any more ahistorical.

 

[Sea Turtle]

lmao Palestinians at destroyed Lebanon and Jordan. Couldn't be any more ahistorical.

We can agree to disagree. I'll post this and let people draw their own conclusions about Palestinians and their supporters in other nations. Even our own with Sirhan Sirhan killing RFK due to his pro Israel stance.



From Wiki:

Involved in the Lebanese Civil War. The Palestinian Black September Organization was founded after the conflict to carry out attacks against Jordanian authorities in response to the fedayeen's expulsion; their most notable attack was the assassination of Jordanian prime minister Wasfi Tal in 1971, as he had commanded parts of the military operations against the fedayeen. The following year, the organization shifted its focus to attacking Israeli targets and carried out the Munich massacre against Israeli athletes. Though the events of Black September did not reflect a Jordanian–Palestinian divide, as there were Jordanians and Palestinians on both sides of the conflict, it paved the way for such a divide to emerge subsequently.[12]


From Britannica:

After the Six-Day War of 1967, the PLO promoted a distinctively Palestinian agenda. In 1969 Yāsir ʿArafāt, leader of Fatah, the PLO’s largest faction, became its chairman. From the late 1960s the PLO engaged in guerrilla attacks on Israel from bases in Jordan, from which it was expelled in 1971. PLO headquarters moved to Lebanon. In 1974 ʿArafāt advocated limiting PLO activity to direct attacks against Israel, and the Arab community recognized the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of all Palestinians. It was admitted to the Arab League in 1976. In 1982 Israel invaded Lebanon and expelled PLO forces based there. In 1988 the PLO leadership, then based in Tunisia.


Gee, I wonder why no other nation wants to take them and their supporters in? Don't they want civil wars or states within states?

 

[TorontoGold]

We can agree to disagree. I'll post this and let people draw their own conclusions about Palestinians and their supporters in other nations. Even our own with Sirhan Sirhan killing RFK due to his pro Israel stance.



From Wiki:

Involved in the Lebanese Civil War. The Palestinian Black September Organization was founded after the conflict to carry out attacks against Jordanian authorities in response to the fedayeen's expulsion; their most notable attack was the assassination of Jordanian prime minister Wasfi Tal in 1971, as he had commanded parts of the military operations against the fedayeen. The following year, the organization shifted its focus to attacking Israeli targets and carried out the Munich massacre against Israeli athletes. Though the events of Black September did not reflect a Jordanian–Palestinian divide, as there were Jordanians and Palestinians on both sides of the conflict, it paved the way for such a divide to emerge subsequently.[12]


From Britannica:

After the Six-Day War of 1967, the PLO promoted a distinctively Palestinian agenda. In 1969 Yāsir ʿArafāt, leader of Fatah, the PLO’s largest faction, became its chairman. From the late 1960s the PLO engaged in guerrilla attacks on Israel from bases in Jordan, from which it was expelled in 1971. PLO headquarters moved to Lebanon. In 1974 ʿArafāt advocated limiting PLO activity to direct attacks against Israel, and the Arab community recognized the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of all Palestinians. It was admitted to the Arab League in 1976. In 1982 Israel invaded Lebanon and expelled PLO forces based there. In 1988 the PLO leadership, then based in Tunisia.


Gee, I wonder why no other nation wants to take them and their supporters in? Don't they want civil wars or states within states?

You're willing to paint an entire nation of people under a certain brush. You don't see how that is problematic?

You're more than welcome to post the Nakba and see what your thoughts are on that.

 

[PerthDomer]

No. I'm sure it's a coincidence that the world waa set on fire, including the first war in Europe since ww2, when he came to office. I'm afraid the cherry on top will be China invading Taiwan very soon.

I agree that Daddy Bush is underrated, foreign policy wise.

Looked it up. The recent Azeri offensive started in late 2020 so under Trump. It ramped up further when Russia went all in on Ukraine because the Armenians lost their protector.
Trump also saw the Tigray conflict which if I recall had more casualties than Russia/Ukraine. The world is a messy place. The US matters, but we don't control everything.

 

[Sea Turtle]

You're willing to paint an entire nation of people under a certain brush. You don't see how that is problematic?

You're more than welcome to post the Nakba and see what your thoughts are on that.

The other arab/muslim nations are painting that brush.They have decided to throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to the Palestinians. I was simply stating their point of view in this case. But yes, I get it and agree to an extent.

There are wonderful people who are Palestinian. Having said that, I get these countries view. It's almost impossible for them to keep dangerous elements within the Palestinians and outside agitators and jihadists from setting up shop, whipping them into a frenzy and leading insurrections against, not only Israel but the host countries who won't help them. Nobody wants to deal with that, Toronto.

They are obsessed with taking back Israel. They wont simply assimilate among other Arab nations.

They are obsessed to the point of causing trouble all over the world to pressure Israel and her allies. These groups blow themselves up to kills Jews. They kidnap, hijack,murder whenever possible for blood lust and to draw attention to their cause.

But Israel isn't going anywhere. And its all for naught. The problem is that the Palestinian terror groups are literally using the same playbook from 1962 that the Algerians used against the French to drive them out.

But the Jews don't have a France to go back to.

The Nakab is another story. One day I will. But my goodness, that will be a book.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Looked it up. The recent Azeri offensive started in late 2020 so under Trump. It ramped up further when Russia went all in on Ukraine because the Armenians lost their protector.
Trump also saw the Tigray conflict which if I recall had more casualties than Russia/Ukraine. The world is a messy place. The US matters, but we don't control everything.

You're right, we don't control everything.

The horror of Tigray, Nigerians being massacred. Two African coups. I agree. Unfortunately, Africa doesn't even count to most of the world 😕

Edit: I forgot, 3 coups in Africa.

 

[TorontoGold]

The other arab/muslim nations are painting that brush.They have decided to throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to the Palestinians. I was simply stating their point of view in this case. But yes, I get it and agree to an extent.

There are wonderful people who are Palestinian. Having said that, I get these countries view. It's almost impossible for them to keep dangerous elements within the Palestinians and outside agitators and jihadists from setting up shop, whipping them into a frenzy and leading insurrections against, not only Israel but the host countries who won't help them.

They are obsessed with taking back Israel. They wont simply assimilate among other Arab nations.

They are obsessed to the point of causing trouble all over the world to pressure Israel and her allies. These groups blow themselves up to kills Jews. They kidnap, hijack,murder whenever possible for blood lust and to draw attention to their cause.

But Israel isn't going anywhere. And its all for naught. The problem is that the Palestinian terror groups are literally using the same playbook from 1962 that the Algerians used against the French to drive them out.

But the Jews don't have a France to go back to.

The Nakab is another story. One day I will. But my goodness, that will be a book.

The Nakba literally explains the entire story.

Those that think being "muslim" = all the same are just not capable of understanding it (not saying you, just people in general).

 

[Bluto]

Excerpts from and interview with the director of the 2012 Documentary The Gate Keepers. The focus of the documentary is the Israeli Security force called Shin Bet. All of the former heads of that branch up to that point are interviewed for the first time ever.

A great film and very relevant to current events.