'21 CA QB Tyler Buchner (ND FB -> Bama FB -> ND LAX???)

[Henges24]

BK had 100,000,000 reasons to leave.

And TRs came with a raise also. Moot.

 

[forkbeard3777]

How is leaving ND a “business decision” for BK but not for Buchner or Rees?

BK left for money or a perceived better shot at a title (I tend to think the latter was more a factor).

Rees left to advance his career by working under one of the greatest coaches in the history of the sport.

Buchner left for a shot to start this season after it became apparent he wouldn’t have that at Notre Dame.

Those are all business decisions, in one way or another. I doubt much of any of this is personal.

I'll give Rees a little leeway. I've said this before (I believe in this thread), it's a "lateral" move, but he is working under the greatest of all time coaches.

TB, on the other hand...when one transfers, it's usually to lock-in a starting a role or to advance in the depth chart. Buchner transferred and essentially took a demotion. It was just a horrible, horrible, horrible move. He also really left ND in a bind. God forbid something should happen to Hartman, you're left trotting Angeli or Minchey out there. You're also left to hit the transfer portal again at the conclusion of the season.

 

[NDQuebec]

I'll give Rees a little leeway. I've said this before (I believe in this thread), it's a "lateral" move, but he is working under the greatest of all time coaches.

TB, on the other hand...when one transfers, it's usually to lock-in a starting a role or to advance in the depth chart. Buchner transferred and essentially took a demotion. It was just a horrible, horrible, horrible move. He also really left ND in a bind. God forbid something should happen to Hartman, you're left trotting Angeli or Minchey out there. You're also left to hit the transfer portal again at the conclusion of the season.

Maybe so, but it was a business decision nonetheless. Not a very good one however. A real head scratcher.

 

[PutuporShutup]

And TRs came with a raise also. Moot.

it was noted ND matched the offer

 

[stlnd01]

I'll give Rees a little leeway. I've said this before (I believe in this thread), it's a "lateral" move, but he is working under the greatest of all time coaches.

TB, on the other hand...when one transfers, it's usually to lock-in a starting a role or to advance in the depth chart. Buchner transferred and essentially took a demotion. It was just a horrible, horrible, horrible move. He also really left ND in a bind. God forbid something should happen to Hartman, you're left trotting Angeli or Minchey out there. You're also left to hit the transfer portal again at the conclusion of the season.

To be clear I don't think Buchner made a GOOD decision. He was in great position to be our starting QB for two seasons after this one, and he gave that up for a chance to start this year at Bama.
But he made the decision that he felt was best for his career at this moment in time. It wasn't personal, and I doubt it was emotional. It was a business decision. No different than Rees or BK.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Nothing against Tyler but if he wants to come back I'm telling the coaches no thanks, I feel good about Minchey, Angeli and Carr for 2024.

 

[Blazers46]

Nothing against Tyler but if he wants to come back I'm telling the coaches no thanks, I feel good about Minchey, Angeli and Carr for 2024.

Nothing against Tyler except he sucks at football….

 

[ndfanatic78]

BK had 100,000,000 reasons to leave.

You don’t know he left for more money. He never even gave ND a chance to counter. Kelly left for a supposedly easier path to a NC so he can’t get a statue. The money was nice but it wasn't the deciding factor if it was he would have at least let ND counter the offer.

 

[PutuporShutup]

How is leaving ND a “business decision” for BK but not for Buchner or Rees?

BK left for money or a perceived better shot at a title (I tend to think the latter was more a factor).

Rees left to advance his career by working under one of the greatest coaches in the history of the sport.

Buchner left for a shot to start this season after it became apparent he wouldn’t have that at Notre Dame.

Those are all business decisions, in one way or another. I doubt much of any of this is personal.

I believe both are laterals for BK and Rees. BK for an easier job, and Rees to be under the GOAT (short sited because if the offense isn't amazing at bama for the first time in say 14 years under saban, rees will get the blame).

Buchner was smart for leaving ND and dumb for going to bama. He could have transfered somewhere like a low power 5 school or even MAC school that he would guarantee start and potentially develop. If he's 3rd string at Bama in a week or so, his development will be done (until he transfers again).

 

[Irish#1]

I'll give Rees a little leeway. I've said this before (I believe in this thread), it's a "lateral" move, but he is working under the greatest of all time coaches.

TB, on the other hand...when one transfers, it's usually to lock-in a starting a role or to advance in the depth chart. Buchner transferred and essentially took a demotion. It was just a horrible, horrible, horrible move. He also really left ND in a bind. God forbid something should happen to Hartman, you're left trotting Angeli or Minchey out there. You're also left to hit the transfer portal again at the conclusion of the season.

Most everyone doesn't fault Kelly for taking the money, we all would. The issue is how he did it. Taking calls from his agent and talking out the side of his mouth while having dinner with a recruit and his family. Left his coaches hanging as soon as they left the house. Not good.

 

[Irish#1]

Nothing against Tyler but if he wants to come back I'm telling the coaches no thanks, I feel good about Minchey, Angeli and Carr for 2024.

I wouldn't worry about it. That's never happening.

 

[TorontoGold]

Most everyone doesn't fault Kelly for taking the money, we all would. The issue is how he did it. Taking calls from his agent and talking out the side of his mouth while having dinner with a recruit and his family. Left his coaches hanging as soon as they left the house. Not good.

You can even look at like how you would feel about your staff leaving, it's a terrible look to be at a client meeting fielding calls about your next job and then leaving the client high and dry for your former employer. It's not defensible in the real world, and it's even more egregious in a relationship driven profession with literal teenagers.

 

[forkbeard3777]

Most everyone doesn't fault Kelly for taking the money, we all would. The issue is how he did it. Taking calls from his agent and talking out the side of his mouth while having dinner with a recruit and his family. Left his coaches hanging as soon as they left the house. Not good.

I'm not excusing it, but, unfortunately, that's the nature of the business. You don't extend open-ended offers, especially in these types of transactions. Basically, you've got to be ready to take the calls and move and act fast. If not, Woodward moves on and locks up the next coach on his list.

 

[forkbeard3777]

You don’t know he left for more money. He never even gave ND a chance to counter. Kelly left for a supposedly easier path to a NC so he can’t get a statue. The money was nice but it wasn't the deciding factor if it was he would have at least let ND counter the offer.

We've got conflicting information here. Other posters mentioned Notre Dame matched?

 

[stlnd01]

We've got conflicting information here. Other posters mentioned Notre Dame matched?

Have never seen it reported anywhere that we matched LSU's offer to BK. (Though it was never entirely clear how much we were paying BK, b/c private school). Given how fast that all happened, it seems unlikely there was much negotiation.

In post #2571, PutUp/ShutUp said we matched Bama's offer to Rees - who was already one of not THE best-paid OCs in the game.

 

[ndfanatic78]

We've got conflicting information here. Other posters mentioned Notre Dame matched?

I have never seen that reported anywhere. Jack came out and said that Kelly didn’t even give him the opportunity. He just resigned and was gone.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

I have never seen that reported anywhere. Jack came out and said that Kelly didn’t even give him the opportunity. He just resigned and was gone.

Well, how many times do you think Kelly went to Jack asking for upgrades and improvements ect only to be told no. Just like any one of us, we would eventually get to the point where we just say Screw it, and peace out.

PS, not a BK guy

 

[ulukinatme]

I believe both are laterals for BK and Rees. BK for an easier job, and Rees to be under the GOAT (short sited because if the offense isn't amazing at bama for the first time in say 14 years under saban, rees will get the blame).

Oof. There's a reason Alabama OCs have all pretty much ended up with better jobs after leaving Saban's kingdom. They have an embarrassment of riches to work with, it's very difficult to fail there. Rees has done more with far less, he'll probably be fine. Biggest question mark this year will be QBs, because it sounds like they whiffed on a few. Saban has been successful without a big time QB though, I'm sure they'll mitigate and maybe get a better transfer next year. It's certainly not a lateral move though. ND OC's either get let go, or they wind up as HCs of MAC schools. Alabama OCs wind up at nice P5 programs or the NFL. The job titles may be the same, but it was a stepping stone for his career 100%.

 

[forkbeard3777]

I have never seen that reported anywhere. Jack came out and said that Kelly didn’t even give him the opportunity. He just resigned and was gone.

Gotya.

 

[forkbeard3777]

Oof. There's a reason Alabama OCs have all pretty much ended up with better jobs after leaving Saban's kingdom. They have an embarrassment of riches to work with, it's very difficult to fail there. Rees has done more with far less, he'll probably be fine. Biggest question mark this year will be QBs, because it sounds like they whiffed on a few. Saban has been successful without a big time QB though, I'm sure they'll mitigate and maybe get a better transfer next year. It's certainly not a lateral move though. ND OC's either get let go, or they wind up as HCs of MAC schools. Alabama OCs wind up at nice P5 programs or the NFL. The job titles may be the same, but it was a stepping stone for his career 100%.

I think some of their freshman - Lonergan or Holstein have the potential to be very good.

The ones in the mix, though, Milroe, Simpson, and I guess TB...each have their own strengths and weaknesses. Buchner actually is the most well-rounded QB of the three in terms of his skillset, but everything I've read/heard, is that he's firmly rooted in the 3rd slot.

Passing ability: Simpson > TB > Milroe
Running ability: Milroe > TB > Simpson

 

[ndfanatic78]

Well, how many times do you think Kelly went to Jack asking for upgrades and improvements ect only to be told no. Just like any one of us, we would eventually get to the point where we just say Screw it, and peace out.

PS, not a BK guy

To say he was told no for upgrades and improvements is just blatantly false. He got a state the art practice facility built and he got the stadium upgrades. The only thing he didnt get in his timeline was the renovation of the Gug, which is coming but not in time for Kelly. To say he was told no on upgrades and improvements is just not true. Their facilities are still top 10 if not top 5. They lack additional space and an in house chef which has been reported on numerous times and plans are in the works to do it. The food they serve is still a higher quality than a lot schools that do have private dinning for their athletes. If they would have done it 10 years ago everyone would be bitching that they're old and obsolete today. Some people seem to act like ND does no good when they have plenty to brag about and show off.

 

[stlnd01]

To say he was told no for upgrades and improvements is just blatantly false. He got a state the art practice facility built and he got the stadium upgrades. The only thing he didnt get in his timeline was the renovation of the Gug, which is coming but not in time for Kelly. To say he was told no on upgrades and improvements is just not true. Their facilities are still top 10 if not top 5. They lack additional space and an in house chef which has been reported on numerous times and plans are in the works to do it. The food they serve is still a higher quality than a lot schools that do have private dinning for their athletes. If they would have done it 10 years ago everyone would be bitching that they're old and obsolete today. Some people seem to act like ND does no good when they have plenty to brag about and show off.

I mean, we all saw the photos from Michigan's pathetic barbecue. My third-grader's school lunch is better than that.

BK may not have gotten everything he asked for at Notre Dame, but he got a lot of things. He may have gotten a little more money from LSU, but he was pretty well-paid at Notre Dame. No, he left because he's done basically everything you can as a college football coach except the one thing that makes you a legend. And he apparently decided it's easier to do that at LSU. I guess we'll see if he was right.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

I mean, we all saw the photos from Michigan's pathetic barbecue. My third-grader's school lunch is better than that.

BK may not have gotten everything he asked for at Notre Dame, but he got a lot of things. He may have gotten a little more money from LSU, but he was pretty well-paid at Notre Dame. No, he left because he's done basically everything you can as a college football coach except the one thing that makes you a legend. And he apparently decided it's easier to do that at LSU. I guess we'll see if he was right.

He still sucks

 

[forkbeard3777]

I mean, we all saw the photos from Michigan's pathetic barbecue. My third-grader's school lunch is better than that.

BK may not have gotten everything he asked for at Notre Dame, but he got a lot of things. He may have gotten a little more money from LSU, but he was pretty well-paid at Notre Dame. No, he left because he's done basically everything you can as a college football coach except the one thing that makes you a legend. And he apparently decided it's easier to do that at LSU. I guess we'll see if he was right.

You're probably right that money wasn't the deciding factor. He may be paid a little more, but we all know that he was also paid handsomely at Notre Dame. Maybe you're right. He saw both a buffoon and a Neanderthal hoist the NC - maybe he thinks he can do the same? Hope so.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Oof. There's a reason Alabama OCs have all pretty much ended up with better jobs after leaving Saban's kingdom. They have an embarrassment of riches to work with, it's very difficult to fail there. Rees has done more with far less, he'll probably be fine. Biggest question mark this year will be QBs, because it sounds like they whiffed on a few. Saban has been successful without a big time QB though, I'm sure they'll mitigate and maybe get a better transfer next year. It's certainly not a lateral move though. ND OC's either get let go, or they wind up as HCs of MAC schools. Alabama OCs wind up at nice P5 programs or the NFL. The job titles may be the same, but it was a stepping stone for his career 100%.

Yeah they will most likely be able to run the ball and win most games, but they've been one of the best offenses in the country for the last 10-14 years..... That very easily may not be the case this year.

Also, almost all of the OCs were fired from their prior position before joining bama. They did good because the talent was so rich (most importantly at QB). This year is not like that. If you look at the last 6 bama OCs before Rees they were all either HCs at a power 5 school or better or one was an OC in the NFL for a few years already (Daboll). My point is all 6 had already made it, failed, then came to Bama to rejuvenate their career, and it works. Rees was on an upward trajectory (imo wayyyy too fast for the quality of coach he is/isn't), and this could backfire since he isn't as experienced.

 

[IrishLax]

Buchner should transfer back before fall semester and switch to lacrosse

 

[ulukinatme]

Yeah they will most likely be able to run the ball and win most games, but they've been one of the best offenses in the country for the last 10-14 years..... That very easily may not be the case this year.

Also, almost all of the OCs were fired from their prior position before joining bama. They did good because the talent was so rich (most importantly at QB). This year is not like that. If you look at the last 6 bama OCs before Rees they were all either HCs at a power 5 school or better or one was an OC in the NFL for a few years already (Daboll). My point is all 6 had already made it, failed, then came to Bama to rejuvenate their career, and it works. Rees was on an upward trajectory (imo wayyyy too fast for the quality of coach he is/isn't), and this could backfire since he isn't as experienced.

Whether he was as experienced as the previous OCs or not doesn't really matter as far as his career though, yeah? He made a move to clearly further his career based on the previous former coaches that worked under Saban. It was a lateral move maybe as far as job title, but from a career standpoint he has a lot more to gain. I'm going to trust Saban's judgement and experience before anyone else's when it comes to hires, because he's done pretty decent as far as making his OCs marketable for better positions. Whether or not they're successful at their new jobs after Bama is kind of out of his hands.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Whether he was as experienced as the previous OCs or not doesn't really matter as far as his career though, yeah? He made a move to clearly further his career based on the previous former coaches that worked under Saban. It was a lateral move maybe as far as job title, but from a career standpoint he has a lot more to gain. I'm going to trust Saban's judgement and experience before anyone else's when it comes to hires, because he's done pretty decent as far as making his OCs marketable for better positions. Whether or not they're successful at their new jobs after Bama is kind of out of his hands.

I guess that's where I differ because rees is a big part of why NDs offense is finally set up to be really really good (I expect it to be better than Bama). I think Rees calls his own shot if he had stayed and NDs offense becomes what it should be. I think that will take 2-3 years more at Bama. Maybe that's the right thing, to train under saban, or maybe he wants a shot at bama after saban. I don't know. But I think ND's offense is set up to be better in 23 than Bama, and I think his next big gig would be quicker to happen at ND.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Buchner should transfer back before fall semester and switch to lacrosse

He’d be the third best lacrosse player on the football team.

 

[ulukinatme]

I guess that's where I differ because rees is a big part of why NDs offense is finally set up to be really really good (I expect it to be better than Bama). I think Rees calls his own shot if he had stayed and NDs offense becomes what it should be. I think that will take 2-3 years more at Bama. Maybe that's the right thing, to train under saban, or maybe he wants a shot at bama after saban. I don't know. But I think ND's offense is set up to be better in 23 than Bama, and I think his next big gig would be quicker to happen at ND.

The offense is absolutely primed to explode this season. Most of our starters will no longer be underclassmen, we have a proven starter at QB for the first time in awhile, and arguably the weakest position is TE where ND tends to do well anyway. I could see our offense being better than Bama's, a lot will hinge on their QB play as they still have studs everywhere else. That said, historically ND OC's haven't found themselves at great positions after leaving here. The best we can boast is two guys that made it as MAC HCs, one of which fizzled out. The prospects are just better at Bama historically from a career standpoint.