'24 TX S Paul Mencke Jr (Duke Verbal)

[arrowryan]

They moved on to Miles, Ziglar, and Davis (mission)

Miles isn’t coming to ND. Ziglar isn’t a guarantee. Recruits who go on mission trips before college never seem to work out.

They’re approaching position mismanagement, the same thing Rees did with the QB room.

 

[stlnd01]

Miles isn’t coming to ND. Ziglar isn’t a guarantee. Recruits who go on mission trips before college never seem to work out.

They’re approaching position mismanagement, the same thing Rees did with the QB room.

To be fair it's a lot easier to find/grow/re-position safeties than it is QBs.
Anyway haven't you heard Peyton Bowen is coming? All is well.

 

[arrowryan]

But Miles wasn't an no at the time they moved on from Mencke was his point. At the time they moved on they had Taes silent and felt good about their chances with about landing either Miles or Ziglar. Easy to play Monday morning QB now but I think Freeman made the right move. No more wishy washy commitments

They played hardball with Mencke, as if they knew something that no one else did. Taking a kid off the board because he wanted to commit and still take visits? That’s a new one.

If they had good intel that Ziglar/Miles would be committing and shutting it down after their visit, then sure. But that’s not the case.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Don’t tell us, write Marcus Freeman a sternly worded letter.
It’s his call.

Also, I wasn’t sure how flexible the corners are to playing Safety, but IB mentioned earlier today that Hobbs, Moore & Beasley (if they flip him), could all play Safety at ND.

Which is why I'm less concerned about safety now, I've been mentioning this. CB depth is really really good.

 

[Reaper97]

I try to remember A LOT of things happen we don’t know about or expect.

Three weeks ago nobody was thinking about Tae Johnson. Now we got him.

I’m thinking maybe the staff knows something about Beasley we don’t?
If ND flips Beasley, then pretty much all of the Safety stress the past month is moot.

A five man DB class of Beasley, Johnson, Moore, Hobbs, & Urlacher with a possible 6th of Ziglar or whoever it is, would be outstanding. The sixth would just decide if you needed to move a CB to S or not.

And like always, ND will identify, recruit & sign somebody that haven’t even spoke to yet, like last year with Micah Bell.

 

[stpeteirish]

Why the optimism on Beasley?

 

[Reaper97]

Why the optimism on Beasley?

Because ND was the perceived leader after he was at Irish Invasion with Carr, Cam Williams, A. Williams, Larsen, all who committed to ND, then Tennessee had a great start to the season last year and Beasley got caught up in it & committed.

But after that wore off he started contact back up with the ND staff & unofficially visited ND in April.
Then Beasley scheduled an OV to ND for September 22-24, the OSU weekend. He knows to be able to take that OV he must decommit from Tennessee first. And ND is confident he will.

 

[NDpendent]

They played hardball with Mencke, as if they knew something that no one else did. Taking a kid off the board because he wanted to commit and still take visits? That’s a new one.

If they had good intel that Ziglar/Miles would be committing and shutting it down after their visit, then sure. But that’s not the case.

Mencke wanted to give his silent to ND and then told them he still wanted to take his OVs. This isn't a new one, the staff has a policy.
They liked where the board was at (at that time) and moved on.
I'm not worried about where DB recruiting yet. We still have Ziglar and Beasley on the board and 6 months to find someone else that could blow up

 

[IrishLion]

Why the optimism on Beasley?

Because ND was the perceived leader after he was at Irish Invasion with Carr, Cam Williams, A. Williams, Larsen, all who committed to ND, then Tennessee had a great start to the season last year and Beasley got caught up in it & committed.

But after that wore off he started contact back up with the ND staff & unofficially visited ND in April.
Then Beasley scheduled an OV to ND for September 22-24, the OSU weekend. He knows to be able to take that OV he must decommit from Tennessee first. And ND is confident he will.

Plus, it's usually the highly-rated ND commits that committed early after a great visit that start to flirt with other schools at some point, and then at some point enough smoke turns into a fire, and we lose a guy for any number of reasons that benefit schools closer to being football factories.

In this case, it's the opposite for once. A highly-rated guy committed elsewhere, perhaps a bit too early, and ND has been slowly pushing and trying to take advantage. Maybe enough smoke will eventually turn into a fire (official visit and flip)?

When ND flips a guy after a courtship of any length, it's usually a late-bloomer, or at least a guy that the industry recognized too late, that they are flipping from a smaller school. This time, they're going big-game hunting, and they appear to be set up better than usual. It's easy to read the positive tea leaves, even if it doesn't ultimately work out.

 

[arrowryan]

Mencke wanted to give his silent to ND and then told them he still wanted to take his OVs. This isn't a new one, the staff has a policy.
They liked where the board was at (at that time) and moved on.
I'm not worried about where DB recruiting yet. We still have Ziglar and Beasley on the board and 6 months to find someone else that could blow up

Where was that policy when Peyton Bowen visited Oklahoma a million times after he committed to Notre Dame? I know, “he’s a 5 star and Mencke is only a 3 star”.

O’Leary has not proven to use that he can recruit his position on a consistent basis. It’s fine to not be worried, but I’m not comfortable with where it’s at either.

 

[Reaper97]

Where was that policy when Peyton Bowen visited Oklahoma a million times after he committed to Notre Dame? I know, “he’s a 5 star and Mencke is only a 3 star”.

O’Leary has not proven to use that he can recruit his position on a consistent basis. It’s fine to not be worried, but I’m not comfortable with where it’s at either.

Bowen never OV any visits.
They can unofficial visit.
That’s the policy.
Mencke told the staff he was still going to OV Duke & Stanford.

 

[stlnd01]

Bowen never OV any visits.
They can unofficial visit.
That’s the policy.
Mencke told the staff he was still going to OV Duke & Stanford.

That does appear to be the policy, but between recruits now having unlimited OVs and the way (some) schools now seem to pay for unofficials, OVs vs. unofficials increasingly seem to be a distinction without a difference.

Personally I have zero problem with us not holding a spot for Mencke while he OVs to Duke and Stanford. We had other recruits at the same position incoming on visits. It's not fair to them either. This will all sort itself out.

 

[MacIrish75]

The rules are different for different recruits. I don’t think that’s wrong and I think it’s applicable in this situation. Mencke is fine, but we can—and likely will—expand the board and hone in on some kid that blows up this summer/fall.

Five stars get treated differently than three stars.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

The rules are different for different recruits. I don’t think that’s wrong and I think it’s applicable in this situation. Mencke is fine, but we can—and likely will—expand the board and hone in on some kid that blows up this summer/fall.

Five stars get treated differently than three stars.

Sure, but the not taking officials if you are committed is pretty set in stone no? I can't think of anyone taking an OV while committed to MFMF.

It is what it is, the staff is saying we are committed to you, and we expect the same. Even w/ guys who may or may not get processed, it sounds like the staff is pretty upfront with people. I can't think of any stories where recruits are feeling "mislead".

 

[arrowryan]

I’d think the staff would be more concerned with commits taking unofficial visits, no? If you’re taking an unofficial visit, you’re clearly interested enough in that school to pay for travel, hotel, etc.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I’d think the staff would be more concerned with commits taking unofficial visits, no? If you’re taking an unofficial visit, you’re clearly interested enough in that school to pay for travel, hotel, etc.

I have a feeling they aren't paying much for an unofficial now that NIL is a thing. There are even rumors that kids get paid just to visit a school unofficially.

 

[NDpendent]

Where was that policy when Peyton Bowen visited Oklahoma a million times after he committed to Notre Dame? I know, “he’s a 5 star and Mencke is only a 3 star”.

O’Leary has not proven to use that he can recruit his position on a consistent basis. It’s fine to not be worried, but I’m not comfortable with where it’s at either.

First off Bowen never OVd anywhere after he committed, second Freeman said he learned alot after the 2023 cycle and they are making adjustments. They are no longer going to take wishy washy commitments and getting put in a tough spot. I dont think the star rankings matter, they aren't putting up with this, just look at Justin Scott who was ready to commit.

None of this has anything to do with O'Leary, Freeman made the stand (the right stand IMO) on Mencke and you can't blame O'Leary for what happened with PB.

 

[ThePiombino]

I know many are going to point to Freeman on this, and I certainly agree he deserves some criticism as well (though his body of work is largely positive), but how long are we going to allow O'Leary to underperform as a closer before we move on like we did with the Del, Lyght, Denson, etc?

 

[arrowryan]

First off Bowen never OVd anywhere after he committed, second Freeman said he learned alot after the 2023 cycle and they are making adjustments. They are no longer going to take wishy washy commitments and getting put in a tough spot. I dont think the star rankings matter, they aren't putting up with this, just look at Justin Scott who was ready to commit.

None of this has anything to do with O'Leary, Freeman made the stand (the right stand IMO) on Mencke and you can't blame O'Leary for what happened with PB.

O’Leary’s problem(s) have been around much longer than just Mencke and Bowen. He’s one of the weakest recruiters on staff and his position group is always one of the biggest question marks in August.

His 2024 safety haul will be saved by Tae Tae Johnson. I’ll give O’Leary some credit there, but it sounds like Johnson would’ve crawled to South Bend if he had to.

His 2021 and 2022 hauls stunk. His 2023 haul is an Adon Shuler being a bust away from stinking too. We constantly criticized Rees and Del for not recruiting well; O’Leary deserves the same criticism. Considering that Freeman puts such a huge emphasis on recruiting, I’m not sure why we are giving O’Leary a pass here.

 

[NDFAN2008]

O’Leary’s problem(s) have been around much longer than just Mencke and Bowen. He’s one of the weakest recruiters on staff and his position group is always one of the biggest question marks in August.

His 2024 safety haul will be saved by Tae Tae Johnson. I’ll give O’Leary some credit there, but it sounds like Johnson would’ve crawled to South Bend if he had to.

His 2021 and 2022 hauls stunk. His 2023 haul is an Adon Shuler being a bust away from stinking too. We constantly criticized Rees and Del for not recruiting well; O’Leary deserves the same criticism. Considering that Freeman puts such a huge emphasis on recruiting, I’m not sure why we are giving O’Leary a pass here.

Hillman was gonna be a stud it's not his fault that addmissions sucks here. 2025 doesn't look any better looking at the top 15 safeties I don't see anyone we may have a legit shot at everyone is from the South, Cali or Florida. Not one of the top 25 safeties is from Texas which is odd

 

[FU BK]

I understand the frustration....but there is still the transfer portal. And if memory serves me correct doesn't the fella from Rhode Island have 2 years of eligibility? Not idea to not recruit the position well, but less concerned with it if you can grab a couple guys from the portal

 

[Reaper97]

O’Leary’s problem(s) have been around much longer than just Mencke and Bowen. He’s one of the weakest recruiters on staff and his position group is always one of the biggest question marks in August.

His 2024 safety haul will be saved by Tae Tae Johnson. I’ll give O’Leary some credit there, but it sounds like Johnson would’ve crawled to South Bend if he had to.

His 2021 and 2022 hauls stunk. His 2023 haul is an Adon Shuler being a bust away from stinking too. We constantly criticized Rees and Del for not recruiting well; O’Leary deserves the same criticism. Considering that Freeman puts such a huge emphasis on recruiting, I’m not sure why we are giving O’Leary a pass here.

He wasn’t the Safties coach who recruited the ‘21 class. That class was complete when he went from Rovers GA to Safties. His first class was ‘22. He got Devin Moore in that class, who was one of my favorites, then he flipped the week of NSD when BK left. That wasn’t O’Leary’s fault. But either way, that was his first year.
‘23 he got Bowen, Shuler, then Minich as an insurance policy. When Bowen flipped, which had nothing to do with O’Leary, he got Hillman, which admissions stopped.
In ‘24 he got Johnson & Urlacher so far, & Freeman decided to move on from Mencke, who O’Leary also got.

So tell me again, in 2.5 years, who has O’Leary messed up with?

I just gave you his entire Safety recruiting going back to his first class, which was ‘22, not ‘21.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

He wasn’t the Safties coach who recruited the ‘21 class. That class was complete when he went from Rovers GA to Safties. His first class was ‘22. He got Devin Moore in that class, who was one of my favorites, then he flipped the week of NSD when BK left. That wasn’t O’Leary’s fault. But either way, that was his first year.
‘23 he got Bowen, Shuler, then Minich as an insurance policy. When Bowen flipped, which had nothing to do with O’Leary, he got Hillman, which admissions stopped.
In ‘24 he got Johnson & Urlacher so far, & Freeman decided to move on from Mencke, who O’Leary also got.

So tell me again, in 2.5 years, who has O’Leary messed up with?

I just gave you his entire Safety recruiting going back to his first class, which was ‘22, not ‘21.

Don't ruin this for him

 

[arrowryan]

He wasn’t the Safties coach who recruited the ‘21 class. That class was complete when he went from Rovers GA to Safties. His first class was ‘22. He got Devin Moore in that class, who was one of my favorites, then he flipped the week of NSD when BK left. That wasn’t O’Leary’s fault. But either way, that was his first year.
‘23 he got Bowen, Shuler, then Minich as an insurance policy. When Bowen flipped, which had nothing to do with O’Leary, he got Hillman, which admissions stopped.
In ‘24 he got Johnson & Urlacher so far, & Freeman decided to move on from Mencke, who O’Leary also got.

So tell me again, in 2.5 years, who has O’Leary messed up with?

I just gave you his entire Safety recruiting going back to his first class, which was ‘22, not ‘21.

I’ve never seen a coach get credit for landing guys who aren’t on the roster. In 2.5 cycles, I’ll include the 2024 class, he’s brought in Shuler, Minich, Johnson, and Urlacher. Barely enough to complete a 2 deep, between FS and SS.

I’ll compare O’Leary to Stuckey because they both took over position groups at similar-ish times.

Stuckey, who has had less time with a WR room that was terrible, fixed his position group in about 18 months. Stuckey has built that group up to be one of the most promising, exciting groups on the roster.

I want O’Leary to succeed, just as much as anyone on here. But he’s getting unnecessary get out of jail free cards. Apparently, we didn’t learn our lesson with Del Alexander.

 

[NDohio]

He wasn’t the Safties coach who recruited the ‘21 class. That class was complete when he went from Rovers GA to Safties. His first class was ‘22. He got Devin Moore in that class, who was one of my favorites, then he flipped the week of NSD when BK left. That wasn’t O’Leary’s fault. But either way, that was his first year.
‘23 he got Bowen, Shuler, then Minich as an insurance policy. When Bowen flipped, which had nothing to do with O’Leary, he got Hillman, which admissions stopped.
In ‘24 he got Johnson & Urlacher so far, & Freeman decided to move on from Mencke, who O’Leary also got.

So tell me again, in 2.5 years, who has O’Leary messed up with?

I just gave you his entire Safety recruiting going back to his first class, which was ‘22, not ‘21.

To add to this, he should get credit for bringing a couple of transfers to his position group that are being talked about in a very positive manner. It looks like those two are going to be positive contributors to the defensive backfield.

 

[notredomer23]

If Hillman was academically cleared, there is barely any heat on O'Leary right now. He hasn't been up to snuff, but he's gotten a raw deal as well with the late deflections and admissions. Is part of that his fault (Bowen), sure. But Moore and Hillman are really tough to blame on him.

 

[Luckylucci]

There is no way that admissions said Hillman was good to go and then at the last minute some spiteful turd just hits the eject button.

They took Hillman under assumptions he was going to do certain work and he didn’t do the work. This has happened before just not so late in the cycle.

Though, again, it seems insanely unlikely O’Leary is going rogue agent and concocting these plans without Bowden or Freeman’s approval or direction.

 

[Rizzophil]

Because ND was the perceived leader after he was at Irish Invasion with Carr, Cam Williams, A. Williams, Larsen, all who committed to ND, then Tennessee had a great start to the season last year and Beasley got caught up in it & committed.

But after that wore off he started contact back up with the ND staff & unofficially visited ND in April.
Then Beasley scheduled an OV to ND for September 22-24, the OSU weekend. He knows to be able to take that OV he must decommit from Tennessee first. And ND is confident he will.

Thanks Reap

 

[Crazy Balki]

There is no way that admissions said Hillman was good to go and then at the last minute some spiteful turd just hits the eject button.

They took Hillman under assumptions he was going to do certain work and he didn’t do the work. This has happened before just not so late in the cycle.

Though, again, it seems insanely unlikely O’Leary is going rogue agent and concocting these plans without Bowden or Freeman’s approval or direction.

The last time I remember something like this happening was with Marquise Stepp, which was 6 years ago, and that situation was made clear prior to him signing his NLI. We're talking MONTHS before it was made clear for Hillman.

All I can say is that whatever ND's admissions saw as a hurdle, Michigan and Vanderbilt didn't see it as one.

It'd be one thing if Hillman was being recruited and committed early, but I don't think the window was all that feasible for Hillman. Of course, that speculative based on what actually had to happen, but again, Vandy and Michigan could make it work.

 

[INLaw]

He wasn’t the Safties coach who recruited the ‘21 class. That class was complete when he went from Rovers GA to Safties. His first class was ‘22. He got Devin Moore in that class, who was one of my favorites, then he flipped the week of NSD when BK left. That wasn’t O’Leary’s fault. But either way, that was his first year.
‘23 he got Bowen, Shuler, then Minich as an insurance policy. When Bowen flipped, which had nothing to do with O’Leary, he got Hillman, which admissions stopped.
In ‘24 he got Johnson & Urlacher so far, & Freeman decided to move on from Mencke, who O’Leary also got.

So tell me again, in 2.5 years, who has O’Leary messed up with?

I just gave you his entire Safety recruiting going back to his first class, which was ‘22, not ‘21.

I like you and mostly agree but this is basically the opposite of Singer for you. O Leary gets credit for nothing his recruiting results is shit position play is questionable. He is the weakest link and deserves a suspicious eye. Neither arrow m or any sane poster is saying fire the man. Buttttt he is closer to lyght and denson trajectory at this point