Police State USA

[irishtrooper]

I definitely support you irishtrooper. In many ways it's a thankless job that comes with a lot of scrutiny and hate.

I am curious on your take "NOBODY dislikes crooked police more than good police" as it relates to how can the bad cops be weeded out.

Do the police unions, in the process of representing all members, make it almost impossible to get rid of the bad cops?

Does the low staffing/recruiting numbers make it more likely to hang on to a borderline cop because staffing issues creates a sense of desperation and some bad cops are given the benefit of the doubt.

Union protection is a leading reason for crooked police not being removed. Also, unfortunately it can be tough to convict someone with lack of evidence even if there’s a lot of smoke. You have to find the fire. Just like charging a civilian, when there’s not enough evidence bringing a charge is fruitless - in my agency there’s a “catch all” charge of bringing “discredit upon Division“. Police give up many rights afforded to the public when under investigation as a condition of their employment. Compulsory statements being one.

Perhaps there’s a place where good police support bad police, but it’s not anywhere I’ve been. A former coworker in Rochester just got indicted for being involved in an illicit gambling ring. We all thought he was a jerk before that, but nobody’s rushing to his defense as he was fired and now is fighting to stay out of prison. I watched the Memphis PD video with a room full of others and nobody made excuses or forgave that conduct. We all agreed that it was criminal how that man was treated and it was extremely poor tactics used due to lack of training or skill (or malicious intent).

My agency won’t hold on to a borderline member due to difficulty filling the ranks, but I do think it’s possible for other agencies. Compensation being a bit better allows for a little easier hiring.

 

[Bishop2b5]

The broad brush, blanket condemnation of all police that we see from many is far from helpful in this matter. Nobody supports what we saw in Memphis, and there are some bad cops (there are bad apples in every walk of life), but this, "I hate the police" and "F*** the police, they're all bad and they deserve what they get because they volunteered for this job" attitude does nothing to correct the problems and only exacerbates an already tense relationship between law enforcement and the population it's charged with serving. Blanket condemnation like that isn't meaningfully different than saying, "I hate all Asians" or "All women are..." or "All black people..." and so on.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Areas that are over policed as you say, is due to those areas having the highest crime rates. Until other measures are taken to fix that, what do you think the police should do?

This just isnt correct AT ALL.

1. More cops doenst = less crime and cops arnt apportioned based on actual crime rates..... they are apportioned based on perception of crime whihc you are perpetuating that sterotype here. White kids in affluent neighborhoods and communities commit crimes at the same rate as anyother community overall yet they see littel to no policing as opposed to predominantly black communities where ops are literally on the beat looking for something wrong.
2. Crimes are committed at relatively the same rates across the races yet some communities see an increased police presence as opposed ot others when crimes are being committed at the same rate. The murder rate per capita is higher in red states than blue states but yet the police force isnt concentrating its efforts in the areas where murders happen more. They are biased towards cities and not places weher the crimes are being committed.
3. Incarnations are increased for persons of color communities where as they are significnatly less punitive and harsh than white ones.
4. Penalties handed down for crimes committed by persons of color are generally much worse than that for whites for the same crime.

I’d love to see the cops harassing people in the more affluent places like they do in black communities. The amount of illicit activities they’d find would be the same if not more. In my neighborhood I never see a cop but I can GARAUNTEE you plenty of illicit activities take place all through out the neighborhood and it’s predominantly affluent white people. These people will never get busted unless the cops get called to their residence and even then they won’t see any real punishment for lots of reasons.

I can go on but your statement is categorically misleading at best and wrong at worst.

 

[drayer54]

Most prisoners per capita by country 2025| Statista

El Salvador struggles with high levels of violent crime, reflected in the fact that it has the largest prison population per capita worldwide.

www.statista.com

I mean, what are you even saying? More jails, more people in prison? Who knows what the solution is but throwing more people in jail is so far at the bottom of the barrel you'd get splinters.

So, when you see a fella with 13 priors go out and kill someone, do you think... "gee, we need to think about how to prevent this, but jail ain't it?"

OR-

Once you've demonstrated a string of felonies, why do you belong in the community? Why should I have to live next to that person and take precautions not to be that person's next felony?

 

[TorontoGold]

So, when you see a fella with 13 priors go out and kill someone, do you think... "gee, we need to think about how to prevent this, but jail ain't it?"

OR-

Once you've demonstrated a string of felonies, why do you belong in the community? Why should I have to live next to that person and take precautions not to be that person's next felony?

In this situation it would be an abject failure of the entire system to allow a person with 13 intervention points to allow this person to re-enter society without the necessary skills to be a productive member of society.

A number of factors that are societal failures but don't exactly matter because it'll never get addressed.

1) Privatizing prisons doesn't exactly lend it's self to focusing on rehabilitation.
2) Economic anxiety from the living conditions of these people not having access to basic needs. Tough to pull yourself up by your boots if you've got an gun pointed at your head and your boots are nowhere to be found.
3) Over policing of certain sections of the population. Surprising but antagonizing people that are already dealing with incredible amounts of economic anxiety will lead to bad results. It's like going to an animal shelter and expecting the dog from an abusive home to be as receptive to you as your brother's dog.

C'est la vie, doesn't really matter though too much money involved in it and no real motive for anyone to do anything about it. But to suggest that having the 6th highest rate of prisoners per capita is "ok" or "should be higher" is insanity.

 

[GoIrish41]

"I hate the police" and "F*** the police, they're all bad and they deserve what they get because they volunteered for this job"

Nobody said anything like this. Stop putting words in people’s mouths. lol

 

[irishtrooper]

This just isnt correct AT ALL.

1. More cops doenst = less crime and cops arnt apportioned based on actual crime rates..... they are apportioned based on perception of crime whihc you are perpetuating that sterotype here. White kids in affluent neighborhoods and communities commit crimes at the same rate as anyother community overall yet they see littel to no policing as opposed to predominantly black communities where ops are literally on the beat looking for something wrong.
2. Crimes are committed at relatively the same rates across the races yet some communities see an increased police presence as opposed ot others when crimes are being committed at the same rate. The murder rate per capita is higher in red states than blue states but yet the police force isnt concentrating its efforts in the areas where murders happen more. They are biased towards cities and not places weher the crimes are being committed.
3. Incarnations are increased for persons of color communities where as they are significnatly less punitive and harsh than white ones.
4. Penalties handed down for crimes committed by persons of color are generally much worse than that for whites for the same crime.

I’d love to see the cops harassing people in the more affluent places like they do in black communities. The amount of illicit activities they’d find would be the same if not more. In my neighborhood I never see a cop but I can GARAUNTEE you plenty of illicit activities take place all through out the neighborhood and it’s predominantly affluent white people. These people will never get busted unless the cops get called to their residence and even then they won’t see any real punishment for lots of reasons.

I can go on but your statement is categorically misleading at best and wrong at worst.

I’m sorry but you’re incorrect In most of this post. I’m not interested in trying to change minds here, just offer some discussion. It’s fundamental in the belief systems of some here that will not be changed. I mean it’s something people actually see with their own eyes in most cases. I suppose Toronto or you or others just simply see the police as the problem and society made criminals do the things they do - weird because I deal with many poor people that do not resort to crime to solve their problems. Personal responsibility should be the focus, but not everyone feels that way. I get that some people have no father or mother at home and little guidance in life. That is awful and it does tend to lead people down the wrong path, but it’s not like the story is written. The person CHOOSES to break the law…..

Lastly, if you actually think crime is committed in affluent neighborhoods at the same rate as inner cities or just poor neighborhoods (trailer parks/etc), I have a bridge to sell you

Crimes are committed everywhere certainly, but generally police are called to where crime occurs. Hence the reason for increased presence. There aren’t enough resources to just hang around areas all day where no calls for service occur. It’s a triage situation and the mere presence of LE reduces crime. Many restaurants, convenience stores and coffee shops offer free or reduced prices on food/beverages in order to increase presence. They don’t do it because “back the blue”, although they perhaps do support LE, they do it to increase presence and hopefully reduce crime against their business.

 

[Irish#1]

This just isnt correct AT ALL.

1. More cops doenst = less crime and cops arnt apportioned based on actual crime rates..... they are apportioned based on perception of crime whihc you are perpetuating that sterotype here. White kids in affluent neighborhoods and communities commit crimes at the same rate as anyother community overall yet they see littel to no policing as opposed to predominantly black communities where ops are literally on the beat looking for something wrong.
2. Crimes are committed at relatively the same rates across the races yet some communities see an increased police presence as opposed ot others when crimes are being committed at the same rate. The murder rate per capita is higher in red states than blue states but yet the police force isnt concentrating its efforts in the areas where murders happen more. They are biased towards cities and not places weher the crimes are being committed.
3. Incarnations are increased for persons of color communities where as they are significnatly less punitive and harsh than white ones.
4. Penalties handed down for crimes committed by persons of color are generally much worse than that for whites for the same crime.

I’d love to see the cops harassing people in the more affluent places like they do in black communities. The amount of illicit activities they’d find would be the same if not more. In my neighborhood I never see a cop but I can GARAUNTEE you plenty of illicit activities take place all through out the neighborhood and it’s predominantly affluent white people. These people will never get busted unless the cops get called to their residence and even then they won’t see any real punishment for lots of reasons.

I can go on but your statement is categorically misleading at best and wrong at worst.

No it's not misleading or wrong. Indy has more police assigned to the high crime areas then they do others.

 

[Irish#1]

In this situation it would be an abject failure of the entire system to allow a person with 13 intervention points to allow this person to re-enter society without the necessary skills to be a productive member of society.

A number of factors that are societal failures but don't exactly matter because it'll never get addressed.

1) Privatizing prisons doesn't exactly lend it's self to focusing on rehabilitation.
2) Economic anxiety from the living conditions of these people not having access to basic needs. Tough to pull yourself up by your boots if you've got an gun pointed at your head and your boots are nowhere to be found.
3) Over policing of certain sections of the population. Surprising but antagonizing people that are already dealing with incredible amounts of economic anxiety will lead to bad results. It's like going to an animal shelter and expecting the dog from an abusive home to be as receptive to you as your brother's dog.

C'est la vie, doesn't really matter though too much money involved in it and no real motive for anyone to do anything about it. But to suggest that having the 6th highest rate of prisoners per capita is "ok" or "should be higher" is insanity.

I think someone with 13 felonies probably isn't interested in becoming a productive member of society even if they had counseling and were taught a trade.

 

[TorontoGold]

I think someone with 13 felonies probably isn't interested in becoming a productive member of society even if they had counseling and were taught a trade.

Exactly, it's a system failure that someone had been part of the system 13 times and weren't rehabilitated. In addition to them being released while still a danger.

 

[Irish#1]

Exactly, it's a system failure that someone had been part of the system 13 times and weren't rehabilitated. In addition to them being released while still a danger.

Seriously not being argumentative here, but at what point do we blame the criminal and not the system? There has to be some personal accountability, right?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Areas that are over policed as you say, is due to those areas having the highest crime rates. Until other measures are taken to fix that, what do you think the police should do?

I’m sorry but you’re incorrect In most of this post. I’m not interested in trying to change minds here, just offer some discussion. It’s fundamental in the belief systems of some here that will not be changed. I mean it’s something people actually see with their own eyes in most cases. I suppose Toronto or you or others just simply see the police as the problem and society made criminals do the things they do - weird because I deal with many poor people that do not resort to crime to solve their problems. Personal responsibility should be the focus, but not everyone feels that way. I get that some people have no father or mother at home and little guidance in life. That is awful and it does tend to lead people down the wrong path, but it’s not like the story is written. The person CHOOSES to break the law…..

Lastly, if you actually think crime is committed in affluent neighborhoods at the same rate as inner cities or just poor neighborhoods (trailer parks/etc), I have a bridge to sell you

Crimes are committed everywhere certainly, but generally police are called to where crime occurs. Hence the reason for increased presence. There aren’t enough resources to just hang around areas all day where no calls for service occur. It’s a triage situation and the mere presence of LE reduces crime. Many restaurants, convenience stores and coffee shops offer free or reduced prices on food/beverages in order to increase presence. They don’t do it because “back the blue”, although they perhaps do support LE, they do it to increase presence and hopefully reduce crime against their business.

I appreciate your position and this post but we are just fundamentally disagreeing here. I don’t have time to do a thesis but A crime is a crime yes? Is it still a crime if no cop is around to see it? Yea. So the major disparities we see in arrays and prosecutions and jail time are disproportionately increased in areas where more cops are placed. I don’t have a Scorpion unit in my neighborhood though if I did they turn up some criminals committing crimes. Lots of high end drug use and dealings for sure. So the argument that cops are sent where crime rates are highest doesn’t seem legit to me because how can it be.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Seriously not being argumentative here, but at what point do we blame the criminal and not the system? There has to be some personal accountability, right?

You realize two different people can commit the same crime and receive two entirely difference instances of “justice” yes?

 

[ab2cmiller]

My assumption is that cop placement has more to do with what areas have a higher statistical chance of violent crime. So yes, those people who are committing non-violent crimes in those areas are more likely to be caught than people committing the same crimes in areas that have little violence. Is that fair in the sense that you have two people committing the same crimes and one is far less likely to get caught? I guess not. But what is the other option? Redistributing police evenly throughout the community regardless of violence likelihood? The end result is people in these violent areas begging for more police presence.

For me the bigger issue is the likelihood of certain ethnicities receiving harsher sentences than let's say whites. Another is, in cases that are less "clear cut", do certain ethnicities face a greater chance of going to trial while other ethnicities are more likely to have their case dropped.

 

[GoIrish41]

No it's not misleading or wrong. Indy has more police assigned to the high crime areas then they do others.

Chicken or Egg?

 

[GATTACA!]

Seriously not being argumentative here, but at what point do we blame the criminal and not the system? There has to be some personal accountability, right?

Aren’t we blaming the system by saying the guy shouldn’t have been released after crime #12? You’re just blaming different parts. None of which are working right now.

We’re sinking because we hit an iceberg you idiot!
No we’re sinking because our radar isn’t working, moron!

 

[Irish#1]

You realize two different people can commit the same crime and receive two entirely difference instances of “justice” yes?

Absolutely, but we're talking about one criminal that has committed 13 felonies.

 

[TorontoGold]

Seriously not being argumentative here, but at what point do we blame the criminal and not the system? There has to be some personal accountability, right?

I think blaming an entire group based on personal accountability is impossible since there is obviously different circumstances for each person. I think those that are afforded every opportunity that go on to live a life of crime should absolutely be blamed in their individual situation.

We've seen many posts here saying that being a cop is tough and that they face certain pressures that may cause them to have overreactions in certain instances. No argument there. How is it not reasonable, if not more, that people commit crime based on opportunity and societal pressures?

Many arguments are that more funding and nicer rhetoric for police will make everything better, but putting that funding into the disenfranchised communities is "bad". If the communities receive support there's less incentive for them to commit crimes.

 

[Irish#1]

My assumption is that cop placement has more to do with what areas have a higher statistical chance of violent crime. So yes, those people who are committing non-violent crimes in those areas are more likely to be caught than people committing the same crimes in areas that have little violence. Is that fair in the sense that you have two people committing the same crimes and one is far less likely to get caught? I guess not. But what is the other option? Redistributing police evenly throughout the community regardless of violence likelihood? The end result is people in these violent areas begging for more police presence.

For me the bigger issue is the likelihood of certain ethnicities receiving harsher sentences than let's say whites. Another is, in cases that are less "clear cut", do certain ethnicities face a greater chance of going to trial while other ethnicities are more likely to have their case dropped.

I will defer to Trooper who is far more an expert on this than us, but more police deployed to the areas where more violent crime is committed is pretty standard.

No one is denying that there isn't crime everywhere. I live in the SE township in Indy. I would guess it is 70% white and 30% black. I've been told we have four patrol cars per shift to cover 42 square miles. Center township is also 42 square miles. I don't know the number, but I wouldn't be surprised if the number of patrol cars per shift is over 100.

 

[NorthDakota]

My assumption is that cop placement has more to do with what areas have a higher statistical chance of violent crime. So yes, those people who are committing non-violent crimes in those areas are more likely to be caught than people committing the same crimes in areas that have little violence. Is that fair in the sense that you have two people committing the same crimes and one is far less likely to get caught? I guess not. But what is the other option? Redistributing police evenly throughout the community regardless of violence likelihood? The end result is people in these violent areas begging for more police presence.

For me the bigger issue is the likelihood of certain ethnicities receiving harsher sentences than let's say whites. Another is, in cases that are less "clear cut", do certain ethnicities face a greater chance of going to trial while other ethnicities are more likely to have their case dropped.

Yeah, I presume thats what they do.

A cop patrolling my lazy neighborhood on a Friday night is one less cop on the main roads investigating drunk driving, or downtown handling belligerent drunks. Always found it funny how few police I would see in my college neighborhood on weekdays. But nights and weekends, they were all over the place.

 

[ulukinatme]

Saying the police are antagonistic against those who serve is exactly the attitude that anti police folks seem to have. Broad brush and such. Everyone is less than perfect every day, but to insinuate police come to work just to be antagonistic against the public is ridiculous. It’s too difficult a job for too little money for that to be true. I will say a couple bad ones likely have an attitude like that and that’s terrible.

NOBODY dislikes crooked police more than good police. Good police are the ones carrying the issues after the wrongdoing. As far as the guy that hates traffic enforcement, I’m with you on police not obeying the laws they enforce. I have conversations frequently about how bad it looks to the public when rule enforcers aren’t rule followers. I’m not in agreement about the hiding thing…Hiding in an unmarked car or a U turn doesn’t negate the speeding violation. Police are trained (most anyway) on where to safely pull over a vehicle that gives other motorists time to observe and change lanes. If they’re doing that in a bad spot, their training should be better. I agree that would be frustrating, not to mention dangerous for all involved.

Getting into details about the police hate is a fool’s errand though. I’m not going bang my head against the wall trying to convince those who have made up their mind. I’ve never hurt anyone that hasn’t tried to kill/assault me and I’ve talked people down from potential assaultive behavior. Pulling a weapon on someone is rare and not something nearly all police ever want to do. I’ve seen many cases where using a firearm would be completely justified, however they didn’t.

It’s difficult to convey what it’s like being spit on for wearing a uniform, distrusted due to your profession, doxxed by sovereign citizens, sued for doing your job, having a social media attack campaign levied against you for writing a traffic ticket for running a red light (an officer is currently dealing with this now- not to mention his wife, hearing threats to ram his car and shoot him in the comments!) , having false accusations brought continuously against you , etc


As far as false accusations, it happens constantly. Literally dozens for every one that is legit. Claims are made, investigation commences and the body cam footage directly refutes the claim/allegation. Almost 100% of the time the agency refuses to enforce the laws against filing a false statement for the fabricated allegation. It’s easier to just let it go. Newspaper and media sensationalize incidents or accusations against police and even though it’s nearly all provably false, no pushback occurs. There’s no defending of the officer’s reputation. This happened when an attorney threw several allegations in the paper (to help undermine credibility for his client on a separate case) and each allegation was fully looked into, proven false by those the attorney claimed to have as sources. Their story directly contradicted the attorney’s story and nothing. No published account to clear that officer in the media. That story still gets brought up 5 years later and it was almost all complete bull crap. This is far too common.

A local paper ran an article publishing all discipline records for an agency dating back over a dozen years. The implication was that it was covered up. The officer had been punished and this was a headline grabbing tactic. No context was given, just the charge and punishment. I get that scrutiny comes with the job, taxpayers and such….Most of the
published records were for inadequate job performance or minor property damage accidents from years ago. I don’t think teachers would enjoy their records being published (I mean they’re entrusted with our children and funded by tax dollars), the politicians coming up with this stuff don’t enjoy this accountability and scrutiny. This seems targeted for just one profession. It’s almost like some want to keep people from the field of law enforcement, I mean who would sign up with the headaches? It has worked too, as those signing up is down significantly- which leads to to relaxing of standards - which leads to iffy candidates (or outright bad) - which leads to people saying “Ah, see the police are awful, I told you”

The job is set up for dislike. Nobody enjoys getting arrested or getting ticket. However it is necessary, even if it isn’t done properly to the liking of some in this board. I’m surprised he hasn’t seen any help with a flat/etc. I’ve personally done it many many times and have seen it done by police quite a bit as well. I personally encourage that type of customer service.

Some good points. I think it's important to remember that there are roughly 650,000 full times officers in the US in any given year. Well over 99% of these people are there doing their job day in and day out without incident. We get maybe a couple dozen incidents over the course of a year where mistakes are made. It's tragic, but they always become big news when they occur because police are held to a different standard despite the fact they're often underpaid and working under a microscope constantly. I don't know how we get to perfection, but I do know we need their profession and I could never do what they do...couldn't pay me enough. Makes me sad that a few bad apples ruin it for the rest that are doing their job diligently and putting their lives on the line.

 

[SeekNDestroy]

Some good points. I think it's important to remember that there are roughly 650,000 full times officers in the US in any given year. Well over 99% of these people are there doing their job day in and day out without incident. We get maybe a couple dozen incidents over the course of a year where mistakes are made. It's tragic, but they always become big news when they occur because police are held to a different standard despite the fact they're often underpaid and working under a microscope constantly. I don't know how we get to perfection, but I do know we need their profession and I could never do what they do...couldn't pay me enough. Makes me sad that a few bad apples ruin it for the rest that are doing their job diligently and putting their lives on the line.

A few bad apples…

Police Brutality at Home: Cops Abuse Wives and Kids at Staggering Rates

It remains an open secret that police domestic abuse is a widespread and deeply entrenched problem.

www.fatherly.com

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Aren’t we blaming the system by saying the guy shouldn’t have been released after crime #12? You’re just blaming different parts. None of which are working right now.

We’re sinking because we hit an iceberg you idiot!
No we’re sinking because our radar isn’t working, moron!

Maybe the guy who installed the radar was corrupt and ditd it intentionally knowing no one would be the wiser till he was long gone? Next thing you know money is missing off the bedside table and your daughter is knocked up...Ive seen it a thousand times.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

My assumption is that cop placement has more to do with what areas have a higher statistical chance of violent crime. So yes, those people who are committing non-violent crimes in those areas are more likely to be caught than people committing the same crimes in areas that have little violence. Is that fair in the sense that you have two people committing the same crimes and one is far less likely to get caught? I guess not. But what is the other option? Redistributing police evenly throughout the community regardless of violence likelihood? The end result is people in these violent areas begging for more police presence.

For me the bigger issue is the likelihood of certain ethnicities receiving harsher sentences than let's say whites. Another is, in cases that are less "clear cut", do certain ethnicities face a greater chance of going to trial while other ethnicities are more likely to have their case dropped.

This is the thing though.... we know all people commit similar crimes at the same rate across race but then there is committing crimes and then there is getting caught committing crimes and then ther is a higher chance of getting caught with more LEO in places where crimes are being committed..... If they policed other places as much as they policed others maybe it wouldnt seem so black and white.

 

[drayer54]

..” we know all people commit similar crimes at the same rate across race but then there is committing crimes and then there is getting caught committing crimes and then ther is a higher chance of getting caught with more LEO in places where crimes are being committed.....

We don’t all know that. That is an assumption. The prison population in each state is significantly more black than the surrounding populations. Iowa was 3% black and 25% of the prison when I was working in Des Moines to lobby bills. So what data or evidence do you have to support that people are committing crimes proportionately? Asians are disproportionately low in prison. Is that because of Asian bias?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

We don’t all know that. That is an assumption. The prison population in each state is significantly more black than the surrounding populations. Iowa was 3% black and 25% of the prison when I was working in Des Moines to lobby bills. So what data or evidence do you have to support that people are committing crimes proportionately? Asians are disproportionately low in prison. Is that because of Asian bias?

We don’t all know that. That is an assumption. The prison population in each state is significantly more black than the surrounding populations. Iowa was 3% black and 25% of the prison when I was working in Des Moines to lobby bills. So what data or evidence do you have to support that people are committing crimes proportionately? Asians are disproportionately low in prison. Is that because of Asian bias?

You are talking about people convicted of crimes. That is not what I’m saying. I’m saying people commit crimes approximately at the same rates. They are CAUGHT and prosecuted at different rates.

And I’m also not specifically talking about violent crimes which are a small minority of all crimes committed. I understand there are significant differences in violent crimes and who does them disproportionately. Only 30-40% of nonviolent crimes are reported and of those less these 20% are generally closed via capturing the suspect and prosecution. Hell less than 45% of violent crimes ever go full closure though prosecution.

There is no significant different in drug use, traffic violations, larcenies, property theft, vandalism, minor assaults, And a whole host of other non violent crimes… by race.

 

[GATTACA!]

More bad apples

Edit: No idea why that reddit link isn't working.

 

[GoIrish41]

More bad apples

Edit: No idea why that reddit link isn't working.

Obviously the deep state, baby-eating media doesn’t want us to see it. 😉

 

[drayer54]

You are talking about people convicted of crimes. That is not what I’m saying. I’m saying people commit crimes approximately at the same rates. They are CAUGHT and prosecuted at different rates.

And I’m also not specifically talking about violent crimes which are a small minority of all crimes committed. I understand there are significant differences in violent crimes and who does them disproportionately. Only 30-40% of nonviolent crimes are reported and of those less these 20% are generally closed via capturing the suspect and prosecution. Hell less than 45% of violent crimes ever go full closure though prosecution.

There is no significant different in drug use, traffic violations, larcenies, property theft, vandalism, minor assaults, And a whole host of other non violent crimes… by race.

So you’re saying the same group of people that disproportionately commits violent crimes by a multiple commits non-violent crimes at the same rate as everyone else? I don’t believe you.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

So you’re saying the same group of people that disproportionately commits violent crimes by a multiple commits non-violent crimes at the same rate as everyone else? I don’t believe you.

I know you don’t and that’s ok