2023 Transfer QB

[Justin574]

Respectfully, I think you're being disingenuous with regards to the facts and impacts of those facts. Pyne through 6 full games as starter has 100 yards rushing and ZERO rushing TD's. He's averaging 17 yards/game and has no points to show for it. While Book, over his last 25 games, averaged 41yds/game and scored 13 times. Book was good for a few more first downs/game with his legs and a score, every other game. That's significantly better. In 2020, Book ran for over 50 yards, 5 times. Through 6 games, Pyne has never eclipsed 50 yards rushing. Pyne's high output is 30. Book's in 2020 was 85. None of these are remotely the same.

If so far this season Pyne had doubled his rushing output while scoring 3 rushing TD's, and had 50+ yards rushing in 1/3 of the games, Notre Dame football is likely in a much better spot.

That and again, Book had the luxury of being utilized properly by his OC. Can anyone honestly tell me that Pyne has had that same benefit throughout this season? I personally think he's been mismanaged just about as poorly as his play has been. He's out there trying to run an extremely intricate offensive system and he's clearly lost confidence in himself, yet there hasn't been any sign of it being simplified to help him get back on track. He's been targeting Mayer nonstop because that's his safety net in his mind. Book was more or less cut loose out there and was allowed to play to his strengths, then given some guidance and input when he faultered. Pyne's been force fed an overly complex system, then screamed at nonstop when he can't process everything and he ends up missing open targets and playing even more poorly because he's overwhelmed. A good OC would be able to get much more out of Pyne than what we've seen the last 3 games imo, definitely not elite level play but much more efficient than this.

 

[Dale]

He's out there trying to run an extremely intricate offensive system and he's clearly lost confidence in himself, yet there hasn't been any sign of it being simplified to help him get back on track.

Pyne's been force fed an overly complex system

What is so complex and intricate about what Pyne has to do? This has become something repeated here as just a convenient buzz term to justify poor play.

2 plays from Saturday from memory:

3 yard out route to Mayer against a loaded box to move the chains. Easy read. Easy throw. Incomplete.

Verticals that Cuse counters with 8 in coverage. RB releases for an easy check down. INT.

What are the complexities I’m missing here?

 

[Dale]

This piece by Horka if you have On3 provides gifs of some of the plays with shortcomings from Saturday.

Analyzing all 15 Notre Dame football third down plays vs. Syracuse

Notre Dame had some rough stretches on third down vs. Syracuse. Here's a look at every money down attempt, complete with 15 GIFs.

www.on3.com

 

[Rockin’Irish]

What is so complex and intricate about what Pyne has to do? This has become something repeated here as just a convenient buzz term to justify poor play.

2 plays from Saturday from memory:

3 yard out route to Mayer against a loaded box to move the chains. Easy read. Easy throw. Incomplete.

Verticals that Cuse counters with 8 in coverage. RB releases for an easy check down. INT.

What are the complexities I’m missing here?

Drew had at least two check downs to the RB that would have been big gainers but instead forced it into coverage. He’s just not processing fast enough and/or he’s not confident in his decision making. Like with many players thrust into the spotlight before they are ready, the game is still moving too fast for him. I hope that there is at least a minor slowing down effect against Clemson.

 

[arndtjc]

What is so complex and intricate about what Pyne has to do? This has become something repeated here as just a convenient buzz term to justify poor play.

2 plays from Saturday from memory:

3 yard out route to Mayer against a loaded box to move the chains. Easy read. Easy throw. Incomplete.

Verticals that Cuse counters with 8 in coverage. RB releases for an easy check down. INT.

What are the complexities I’m missing here?

I have my frustrations with Tommy’s play calling but watching Drew miss throws like that Mayer out route is the exact reason why this offense has struggled. I think you can count on three hands the truly different plays they’ve run this year with Pyne at the helm and he just can’t get it done sometimes

 

[Justin574]

Book wasn’t the most talented but damn he was a gamer.

He busted his ass out there, but I would've preferred retaining Jurkovec for 2-3 more years than Book starting another season as a 5th year senior (I believe). Even if at the time, Book had the slight nod due to experience, the coaches should've realized that Jurkovec was the future of the program and we're still paying for that mistake imo. Whether people realize it or not, Book and his decision to hog the glory as QB at ND is a huge part of why we're not 6-1 or 7-0 this season under Jurkovec. Imagine having a QB who can actually see over the Oline that's giving him a century in the pocket, that also had 2yrs of running the offense under his belt and as much natural talent as Jurkovec. Needless to say, I'm not much of a Book fan, but spilt milk and what not I guess.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

You can't be serious. 5 star Phil sucks

 

[ulukinatme]

You can't be serious. 5 star Philure sucks

FIFY

 

[Dale]

I have my frustrations with Tommy’s play calling but watching Drew miss throws like that Mayer out route is the exact reason why this offense has struggled. I think you can count on three hands the truly different plays they’ve run this year with Pyne at the helm and he just can’t get it done sometimes

Yup. Another decent play from Saturday to lament is this sequence. Rees called a deep shot on 2nd down. I personally was fine with the call. But I hear anyone saying just run it. But then third down is just a layup of a throw to get it to Styles and at least cut into the yardage. It just can’t be missed if you’re Pyne.

It’s not fair to Pyne to be upset over second down, but if you’re not a stretch the field QB, and you’re not a create your own QB (Book), and you’re not a game manager QB. Then….

 

[Justin574]

What is so complex and intricate about what Pyne has to do? This has become something repeated here as just a convenient buzz term to justify poor play.

2 plays from Saturday from memory:

3 yard out route to Mayer against a loaded box to move the chains. Easy read. Easy throw. Incomplete.

Verticals that Cuse counters with 8 in coverage. RB releases for an easy check down. INT.

What are the complexities I’m missing here?

I don't have direct access to their playbook, so offering specifics about how the offense is too complex is difficult, but there signs all over that it is. The fact that during the SCAN Pyne has to remember to stare over at the sidelines to get a signal to change the play in itself adds unnecessary complexity. It might seem small, but every added element is just another thing for the players to process out there, another thing that keeps them from getting in their flow and gaining momentum. Then the fact that our stud freshman WR basically had to be forced onto the field despite the OC saying he doesn't yet have confidence in him (code for he doesn't understand the offense) is another sign that it's far too complex for college athletes. No reason Tobias shouldn't understand the offense well enough to get some significant snaps before the 6th game of the season

 

[Justin574]

You can't be serious. 5 star Phil sucks

He's better than Pyne and slightly better than Book and it's not like we needed Trevor Lawrence to win the games we've lost this season, they've all been close games.

 

[Dale]

I don't have direct access to their playbook, so offering specifics about how the offense is too complex is difficult, but there signs all over that it is. The fact that during the SCAN Pyne has to remember to stare over at the sidelines to get a signal to change the play in itself adds unnecessary complexity. It might seem small, but every added element is just another thing for the players to process out there, another thing that keeps them from getting in their flow and gaining momentum. Then the fact that our stud freshman WR basically had to be forced onto the field despite the OC saying he doesn't yet have confidence in him (code for he doesn't understand the offense) is another sign that it's far too complex for college athletes. No reason Tobias shouldn't understand the offense well enough to get some significant snaps before the 6th game of the season

I still disagree with the complex playbook argument regardless, but to entertain it even, Pyne and Merriweather are not the same. Playbook too complicated for summer enrollee true freshman WR and for multi year in the offense QB is apples and oranges.

We don’t need the playbook. We’ve all watched the game. Some, many, most of these misfires are not due to complexities.

 

[Justin574]

Pyne and Merriweather are not the same.

The offense is the same and the fact that we saw Merriweather score on one of his first targets shows that it can be simplified and then implemented successfully.

 

[Justin574]

I still disagree with the complex playbook argument regardless, but to entertain it even, Pyne and Merriweather are not the same. Playbook too complicated for summer enrollee true freshman WR and for multi year in the offense QB is apples and oranges.

We don’t need the playbook. We’ve all watched the game. Some, many, most of these misfires are not due to complexities.

It's not about a direct 1 to 1 comparison between Pyne and Tobias, it's about simplifying the offense in general. It's about not drawing up convoluted plays and using SCAN to call audibles from the sideline and just getting the ball to your playmakers like Tobias in space. That would improve Pyne's stats and the offense overall imo, but instead we watched him sit on the sidelines for 6 games while we were bone dry at WR and starting Matt Salerno. You telling me you don't think Saban, for instance, would've found a way to get Tobias on the field in the scenario NDs been in this season?

 

[Dale]

it's about simplifying the offense in general. It's about not drawing up convoluted plays and using SCAN to call audibles from the sideline and just getting the ball to your playmakers like Tobias in space

So all the good throws by Pyne you know are simple and can comment on, but the bad plays are complex, intricate and convoluted. But then also the examples I gave you can’t comment on because you don’t have the playbook.

Got it. I’ll bow out at that.

 

[Justin574]

So all the good throws by Pyne you know are simple and can comment on, but the bad plays are complex, intricate and convoluted. But then also the examples I gave you can’t comment on because you don’t have the playbook.

Got it. I’ll bow out at that.

What does the SCAN offense and Merriweather not being on the field have to do with "good throws by Pyne"? He wasn't throwing to Merriweather at all until around the 6th game because it wasn't drawn up. It wasn't drawn up because Tommy's more worried about getting cute and running plays that his stud freshman WR hasn't had time to learn yet instead of getting him on the field, getting him the ball and letting him make a play. It doesn't matter what play they're even running when the DBs from Stanford or Marshall can't cover Tobias to save their lives. Practice reports from ND DBs even said they can't cover him. Not sure how your comment was supposed to address any of the points I made.

 

[Dale]

Not sure how your comment was supposed to address any of the points I made.

Okay, actual last post and I’m gonna give in to the douche version of Dale, man I’ve been wondering this exact same thing this whole time, since yesterday.

 

[Justin574]

Instead we get 30 targets to Mayer, who's great, but not nearly as explosive as Tobias. When I say "simplify the offense", I mean taking all the fancy crap out of it and saying "we're gonna see if your DBs can even cover Tobias on a straight route down the sideline". I mean tell Pyne to throw it up to his 6'4 speedster and let him get it. I mean easing up on the intricate schemes and similar to how they ran it up the gut all game against Syracuse, match your passing and WR strengths to their weaknesses and just get the ball in Tobias' hands or draw up some fixed routes for him to run and see if their DBs can even run with him. If many of them can't like I suspect, that would open up infinitely more opportunities for Pyne to hit a WR than having a complex play drawn up but Salerno is out there.

 

[Irish4life]

So, anyone hear anything new on a potential transfer QB?

 

[ColoradoIrish]

I'm not trading our 2020 or 2021 season just so we have a tall qb on our team now. Phil doesn't make either of those teams better

 

[Justin574]

Drew had at least two check downs to the RB that would have been big gainers but instead forced it into coverage. He’s just not processing fast enough and/or he’s not confident in his decision making. Like with many players thrust into the spotlight before they are ready, the game is still moving too fast for him. I hope that there is at least a minor slowing down effect against Clemson.

This is what I'm saying, but also, slow it down for him. Maybe it doesn't seem too complex to some, but he's the one out there and he's clearly struggling to process everything for whatever reason. The way you alleviate that, is by dumbing it down and saying "we have a 6'4 speed demon in Tobias, he's going to run this route, throw it here and let him get it". It would be so easy to install 7 or 8 plays where the target is going to him all the way and seeing as how our own DBs say they can't cover him in practice, I'd imagine he gets wide open on some those targets and Pyne's able to hit him. It shouldn't even matter what the play is, Tobias could've burned the Marshall and Stanford DBs all day, but he barely played. If they just drew up some relatively simple plays to have Pyne target him and he's able to complete a few, it would help build his confidence, it would slow the game down for him and probably result in some scores. When Tobias scores on one of his first targets but he barely gets any the game after, that's a problem to me. That suggests that Tommy's not willing to do the simple task of getting his playmaker the ball in space. He doesn't want to dumb it down, maybe because he thinks he's the boy genius and shouldn't have to, idk but it's hard headed and ineffective imo

 

[Justin574]

I'm not trading our 2020 or 2021 season just so we have a tall qb on our team now. Phil doesn't make either of those teams better

I think Phil with 2yrs running the offense would be a huge improvement over the 5'9 QB who probably wouldn't start at Stanford this season. And I don't think 1 more year of Book was fruitful enough to make it worth losing him and ending up in the situation we're in now, but it is what it is, you don't have to agree

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I think Phil with 2yrs running the offense would be a huge improvement over the 5'9 QB who probably wouldn't start at Stanford this season. And I don't think 1 more year of Book was fruitful enough to make it worth losing him and ending up in the situation we're in now, but it is what it is, you don't have to agree

Do you even watch college football? Stanford's current starter is projected to be a 1st round draft pick.

 

[Justin574]

That

Do you even watch college football? Stanford's current starter is projected to be a 1st round draft pick.

I haven't paid much attention to Stanford at all no, just picked the first shitty team I could think of. Insert any team with a subpar QB that's still better than Pyne at this point (in other words almost every team) and my point stands. If Jurkovec was the starter at ND for 2yrs without injury to offset progress and got all that time in the system as the starter, I think he'd be performing at a higher level than any first year starter we have on the roster.

 

[Justin574]

Do you even watch college football? Stanford's current starter is projected to be a 1st round draft pick.

These are his stats, you're telling me that's a first round draft pick?

2022 SEASON STATS​

• YDS 1,972 39th
• TD 11 Tied-70th
• INT 7 Tied-88th
• QBR 49.2 86th

Tanner McKee - Philadelphia Eagles Quarterback - ESPN

View the profile of Philadelphia Eagles Quarterback Tanner McKee on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

 

[Bluto]

These are his stats, you're telling me that's a first round draft pick?

2022 SEASON STATS​

• YDS 1,972 39th
• TD 11 Tied-70th
• INT 7 Tied-88th
• QBR 49.2 86th

Tanner McKee - Philadelphia Eagles Quarterback - ESPN

View the profile of Philadelphia Eagles Quarterback Tanner McKee on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

Tanner McKee viewed as a top 10 pick in PFF's latest mock draft | Sports Illustrated All Cardinal News, Analysis and More

 

[Justin574]

Standards must've dropped since I stopped watching football. His stats aren't even better than Pyne's so if anything my point was wrong for the opposite reason.

Tanner McKee viewed as a top 10 pick in PFF's latest mock draft | Sports Illustrated All Cardinal News, Analysis and More

 

[Bluto]

Standards must've dropped since I stopped watching football. His stats aren't even better than Pyne's so if anything my point was wrong for the opposite reason.

Phil. Go to bed. Seriously.

 

[Justin574]

Phil. Go to bed. Seriously.

When all else fails and stats don't align with your point, meaningless empty rhetoric always saves the day.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I haven't paid much attention to Stanford at all no, just picked the first shitty team I could think of.

We can tell. You might want to rub a couple more brain cells together before firing off your next post.

Standards must've dropped since I stopped watching football. His stats aren't even better than Pyne's so if anything my point was wrong for the opposite reason.

McKee is a great QB with very little talent around him because Stanford has basically self-sanctioned over the last 5 years by refusing to adapt to the early signing period.

When all else fails and stats don't align with your point, meaningless empty rhetoric always saves the day.

Bluto is right. When you started arguing that Book, the all-time winningest QB in NDFB history, wasn't much better than Pyne, I assumed you were either doing a bit or seriously brain- damaged. But then you doubled down on it multiple times, using such insightful comparisons as "Pyne wouldn't start at Stanford over McKee." No shit?

Your position is indefensibly stupid, and those here who chose to respond to you have been much more polite than you've deserved.