Russia Invades Ukraine

GowerND11

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ndfanatic78 said:
Right because America has always kept to her treaties. How them indigenous peoples doing. They haven’t had any treaties infringed upon or anything. The hate for Russians is sad. The blind tribalism is sickening. I hope you all are ready for 100 red balloons.
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Take a lap my man. Russia is bad, that doesn't mean you can't acknowledge wrong doings of the US.
 
ndfanatic78

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notredomer23 said:
Russia was 10 miles from Bakhmut pre-invasion. They've lost more territory in 3 weeks than they've taken in the whole war. This is despite out-populating Ukraine by 100 million people and having an economy 10X bigger. The Russians are winning so much that you have young men fleeing by the thousands to avoid mobilization. I don't understand the quickness by some to discredit Ukraine's success and borderline support Russia because one doesn't trust western media.
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Bull shit
 
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ab2cmiller

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notredomer23 said:
I am sorry that the truth is inconvenient to your love of Russia.
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I don't think your original statement was correct. Russia still controls a lot of the area in the south that they didn't have prior to the war starting.

I think the statement that I saw at one point is that the Ukraine took more land back in the recent counteroffensive than what Russia had gained in the last 6 months or so. Russia still controls a significant amount of area than what they did pre-war.
 
bobbyok1

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Our country has become so ridiculous in public discourse. Either support "Ukraine is the greatest democracy on earth and Russia is the Devil!" or else you are a fascist Russian sympathizer. Such an unintelligent/uninformed perspective probably sounds about right too many on this board, which is pretty concerning.
 
GowerND11

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bobbyok1 said:
Our country has become so ridiculous in public discourse. Either support "Ukraine is the greatest democracy on earth and Russia is the Devil!" or else you are a fascist Russian sympathizer. Such an unintelligent/uninformed perspective probably sounds about right too many on this board, which is pretty concerning.
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Jesus man you are the one saying this stuff. No one here has expressed that Ukraine is the greatest Democracy. Don't put words in people's mouths. You are literally sitting here sucking on Putin's teat claiming they are winning this war handedly, then when presented with a counterpoint say sweeping bullshit like this.
 
bobbyok1

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GowerND11 said:
Russia is winning, but couldn't take Kyiv in the first month, and is now no longer near it? Russia got kicked back from occupied territories in the north, and are now losing territory in the east. I'm not sure if you are delusional, intentionally obtuse, a troll, or all three? I mean, it's pretty much agreed upon around the world that EVEN IF Russia wins this war, it has been an absolute embarrassment for them militarily, logistically, and politically.
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So which is it? Russia is losing their butt, or Russia will win? You seem to be playing both sides of the fence here.

The narrative during this entire conflict was that Russia was going to lose and on the verge at any minute. Now it has shifted to "Russia will probably win, but they are getting their butts kicked in the process!"

Sounds a lot like the common shifting narratives of Western media. Start off with the opposite of the truth, and gradually move towards the truth, while never fully acknowledging it.

The fact that you cannot see I am presenting factual information that goes against the mainstream narrative you have swallowed tells me everything I need to know about your sources of information.
 
bobbyok1

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GowerND11 said:
Jesus man you are the one saying this stuff. No one here has expressed that Ukraine is the greatest Democracy. Don't put words in people's mouths. You are literally sitting here sucking on Putin's teat claiming they are winning this war handedly, then when presented with a counterpoint say sweeping bullshit like this.
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Yes it is hyperbole to make a point. I don't literally think people on here think Ukraine is the greatest democracy on the planet.
The point is people are seeing Ukraine as a heroic Western democracy. This comes out in social media "feel good stories of Ukrainian heroism" and in the opposite, what it is said of Russia and Putin.

I've never been a fan of Russia/Putin before the Ukraine conflict. I am not now. What I am amazed at is the highly off base views that Russia/Putin is trying to reignite the old Soviet Union, and that the West (along with Ukraine) are the heroes in this conflict by opposing Russia/Putin. I simply don't buy it at all.

This is seen in the communication of this forum. What are we seeing? Poor Russian civilians being forced against their will to join Stalin's, I mean Putin's, war machine. HOW COULD HE!!!

Oh wait, facts matter here. The people being called up are military reservists. So, people who signed up for this at some point. And yet, all we are hearing in this forum is anything to paint Russia/Putin as the Devil from most. Never mind that Ukraine shells cities in Western Ukraine where civilians are as a way of diverting Russian forces to have defend those cities and civilians. Have we heard that one from our Western media sources? I bet not. That is one of many stories we hear zero about because it doesn't fit the narrative.

It seems as though most have embraced "Russia Devil" and "Ukraine/West Hero" narrative. Personally this is off to me. I don't think the West/Ukraine is the hero here, far from it. The Ukraine/West push is a push to keep moving towards a globalist world (by globalism I am referring to imposing a system/ethos onto a nation to influence the world to embrace the same values which are in short atheistic, scientific rationalism). This worldview is dying and in my view was never a good one to begin with. And many countries are beginning to or have already moved away from it. Russia wants to be a prominent nation once more, and wants to be "uniquely Russia" in doing so, to return to its roots. No doubt flaws will come with that. No doubt there will be things worthy to oppose in that effort. But they want nothing to do with the modern Western/Globalist atheistic worldview that is making the West a cesspool. As part of this they also don't want the West to impose its will on them. I so no harm in those desires.

Russia IS winning this war handily. The only reason people think any different is they are listening to the same jokesters that have sold us countless lies to promote the agendas of the ones who pay their salaries. That does not mean they are going "undefeated" and suffering zero losses.
 
drayer54

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bobbyok1 said:
So which is it? Russia is losing their butt, or Russia will win? You seem to be playing both sides of the fence here.

The narrative during this entire conflict was that Russia was going to lose and on the verge at any minute. Now it has shifted to "Russia will probably win, but they are getting their butts kicked in the process!"

Sounds a lot like the common shifting narratives of Western media. Start off with the opposite of the truth, and gradually move towards the truth, while never fully acknowledging it.

The fact that you cannot see I am presenting factual information that goes against the mainstream narrative you have swallowed tells me everything I need to know about your sources of information.
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I struggle with Russia is getting whipped or Russia is winning narrative. Russia has still taken a significant chunk of land and managed to mitigate much of the impact from Western sanctions. Russia is also helplessly getting pounded by HIMARS at essential targets, facing serious logistics challenges, and down several Generals (supposedly, Putin is micro-managing now). I think the real status is that, like the previous shift from Kyiv to the South, the war is going to a new phase soon once 300k to 1mil poorly fed and trained people with crappy Mosin Nagant's come running over the hills of Ukraine.

The Russian logistics gap has been a fascinating angle of the war, especially if you're anyway familiar with logistics or have even seen our own military logistics. Russia is woefully awful at this, and Ukraine has effectively hit supply lines like crazy lately. It takes a lot of food and supplies to mobilize several hundred thousand people with already diminished supply lines and supply transportation.
 
bobbyok1

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drayer54 said:
I struggle with Russia is getting whipped or Russia is winning narrative. Russia has still taken a significant chunk of land and managed to mitigate much of the impact from Western sanctions. Russia is also helplessly getting pounded by HIMARS at essential targets, facing serious logistics challenges, and down several Generals (supposedly, Putin is micro-managing now). I think the real status is that, like the previous shift from Kyiv to the South, the war is going to a new phase soon once 300k to 1mil poorly fed and trained people with crappy Mosin Nagant's come running over the hills of Ukraine.

The Russian logistics gap has been a fascinating angle of the war, especially if you're anyway familiar with logistics or have even seen our own military logistics. Russia is woefully awful at this, and Ukraine has effectively hit supply lines like crazy lately. It takes a lot of food and supplies to mobilize several hundred thousand people with already diminished supply lines and supply transportation.
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I have no problem acknowledging Russia being out maneuvered in elements of this conflict as you have expressed. That is part of wartime conflicts. It is a heavily complex thing, and simple narratives fail to accurately communicate those complexities. I simply grow weary of the "Ukraine is kicking butt" narrative. Ukraine has the backing of the West/US at its disposal, which does help Ukraine and makes what would be a weak opponent into a more formidable one. I can only imagine Western support is superior to Russian war tactics in certain respects.

Yet, I don't buy the narrative that Ukraine is winning this conflict on the whole, nor that Russia/Putin is somehow a joke of a military force due to wartime challenges they are facing.
 
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GowerND11

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bobbyok1 said:
So which is it? Russia is losing their butt, or Russia will win? You seem to be playing both sides of the fence here.

The narrative during this entire conflict was that Russia was going to lose and on the verge at any minute. Now it has shifted to "Russia will probably win, but they are getting their butts kicked in the process!"

Sounds a lot like the common shifting narratives of Western media. Start off with the opposite of the truth, and gradually move towards the truth, while never fully acknowledging it.

The fact that you cannot see I am presenting factual information that goes against the mainstream narrative you have swallowed tells me everything I need to know about your sources of information.
Click to expand...


You didn't get my questioning that if they are handily winning, they'd have captured Kyiv, but carry on my dude.

The narrative was Russia was going to roll (what most of the world assumed would happen), to Ukraine is putting up a spirited fight (truth), to Russia is a logistic nightmare and isn't the power everyone thought. That narrative is actually pretty factual, and totally understandable when looked at as a timeline of events.

What facts are you presenting? You keep saying that Russia is winning easily. If they were, then this war would be over a la Desert Storm as I mentioned before. It isn't over yet, and far from it. Ukraine is no longer losing ground, and have had successful counteroffensives. FACT
bobbyok1 said:
Yes it is hyperbole to make a point. I don't literally think people on here think Ukraine is the greatest democracy on the planet.
The point is people are seeing Ukraine as a heroic Western democracy. This comes out in social media "feel good stories of Ukrainian heroism" and in the opposite, what it is said of Russia and Putin.

I've never been a fan of Russia/Putin before the Ukraine conflict. I am not now. What I am amazed at is the highly off base views that Russia/Putin is trying to reignite the old Soviet Union, and that the West (along with Ukraine) are the heroes in this conflict by opposing Russia/Putin. I simply don't buy it at all.

This is seen in the communication of this forum. What are we seeing? Poor Russian civilians being forced against their will to join Stalin's, I mean Putin's, war machine. HOW COULD HE!!!

Oh wait, facts matter here. The people being called up are military reservists. So, people who signed up for this at some point. And yet, all we are hearing in this forum is anything to paint Russia/Putin as the Devil from most. Never mind that Ukraine shells cities in Western Ukraine where civilians are as a way of diverting Russian forces to have defend those cities and civilians. Have we heard that one from our Western media sources? I bet not. That is one of many stories we hear zero about because it doesn't fit the narrative.

It seems as though most have embraced "Russia Devil" and "Ukraine/West Hero" narrative. Personally this is off to me. I don't think the West/Ukraine is the hero here, far from it. The Ukraine/West push is a push to keep moving towards a globalist world (by globalism I am referring to imposing a system/ethos onto a nation to influence the world to embrace the same values which are in short atheistic, scientific rationalism). This worldview is dying and in my view was never a good one to begin with. And many countries are beginning to or have already moved away from it. Russia wants to be a prominent nation once more, and wants to be "uniquely Russia" in doing so, to return to its roots. No doubt flaws will come with that. No doubt there will be things worthy to oppose in that effort. But they want nothing to do with the modern Western/Globalist atheistic worldview that is making the West a cesspool. As part of this they also don't want the West to impose its will on them. I so no harm in those desires.

Russia IS winning this war handily. The only reason people think any different is they are listening to the same jokesters that have sold us countless lies to promote the agendas of the ones who pay their salaries. That does not mean they are going "undefeated" and suffering zero losses.
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If this is your definition of winning handily, I've got some news for you.

Russia is wrong, and the fact that you cannot even fathom understanding that tells me all I need to know about you. Then again, I'm not really surprised since you tried to spread misinformation and quack remedies for COVID at one point too. Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia tampered with a sovereign state that didn't want conflict. Russia is threatening the world with nuclear weapons. Russia is committing atrocities. and bobbyok1 is coming in here and saying that is wrong because ???

You are defending the Russian desire of reuniting former territories to be "uniquely Russian" when these peoples don't want to be a part of it because you dislike globalism. That's fine to not like globalism, but the alternative shouldn't be a new Russian empire isolated from the world ruling and oppressing people who don't want to be ruled by Russia. If Russia wants to eschew the western world, they are more than welcome to, but that doesn't give them the damn right to force that, and their tyrannical rule, on Ukraine.
 
bobbyok1

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GowerND11 said:
You didn't get my questioning that if they are handily winning, they'd have captured Kyiv, but carry on my dude.

The narrative was Russia was going to roll (what most of the world assumed would happen), to Ukraine is putting up a spirited fight (truth), to Russia is a logistic nightmare and isn't the power everyone thought. That narrative is actually pretty factual, and totally understandable when looked at as a timeline of events.

What facts are you presenting? You keep saying that Russia is winning easily. If they were, then this war would be over a la Desert Storm as I mentioned before. It isn't over yet, and far from it. Ukraine is no longer losing ground, and have had successful counteroffensives. FACT


If this is your definition of winning handily, I've got some news for you.

Russia is wrong, and the fact that you cannot even fathom understanding that tells me all I need to know about you. Then again, I'm not really surprised since you tried to spread misinformation and quack remedies for COVID at one point too. Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia tampered with a sovereign state that didn't want conflict. Russia is threatening the world with nuclear weapons. Russia is committing atrocities. and bobbyok1 is coming in here and saying that is wrong because ???

You are defending the Russian desire of reuniting former territories to be "uniquely Russian" when these peoples don't want to be a part of it because you dislike globalism. That's fine to not like globalism, but the alternative shouldn't be a new Russian empire isolated from the world ruling and oppressing people who don't want to be ruled by Russia. If Russia wants to eschew the western world, they are more than welcome to, but that doesn't give them the damn right to force that, and their tyrannical rule, on Ukraine.
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Peace out dude. . . I'll reserve my conversations for people with an open mind.
 
Bishop2b5

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drayer54 said:
I struggle with Russia is getting whipped or Russia is winning narrative. Russia has still taken a significant chunk of land and managed to mitigate much of the impact from Western sanctions. Russia is also helplessly getting pounded by HIMARS at essential targets, facing serious logistics challenges, and down several Generals (supposedly, Putin is micro-managing now). I think the real status is that, like the previous shift from Kyiv to the South, the war is going to a new phase soon once 300k to 1mil poorly fed and trained people with crappy Mosin Nagant's come running over the hills of Ukraine.

The Russian logistics gap has been a fascinating angle of the war, especially if you're anyway familiar with logistics or have even seen our own military logistics. Russia is woefully awful at this, and Ukraine has effectively hit supply lines like crazy lately. It takes a lot of food and supplies to mobilize several hundred thousand people with already diminished supply lines and supply transportation.
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Reminds me of this:

"Amateurs talk about strategy, professionals talk about logistics." - Omar Bradley
 
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