Notre Dame to the B1G Conference?

[dad4aa]

Can’t we use the OOC games to play in the south? I don’t expect us to have a 12 game conference schedule.

 

[Dale]

Can’t we use the OOC games to play in the south? I don’t expect us to have a 12 game conference schedule.

This. I don’t see the B1G or the SEC adding Tier B programs just to add them. What makes more money, Iowa, Purdue playing SMU, TCU annually or ND scheduling ONE home and home versus Texas? The ND - Texas game. This realignment is happening at the top and everyone else ends up in the conference that will be bigger than either “super conference” with the Big 12.

 

[NDRock]

Can’t we use the OOC games to play in the south? I don’t expect us to have a 12 game conference schedule.

Yeah. That would give us something like an OOC schedule of Navy, Texas (or similar) and a cupcake (Western Michigan type). Similar to what we do now.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

What’s the alternative?

Waiting? Neither the B1G nor the SEC is going to turn ND down in x number of years. Meanwhile the stakes will get higher for both of them over time.

 

[du Lac]

Anyone that’s been following this heavily have an inclination whether this is likely or not?

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

Anyone that’s been following this heavily have an inclination whether this is likely or not?

I have followed expansion since 2012. The one rule I learned is prepare to be surprised and inundated will bull-crap.

The reason why I give this more credence is that ND has maintained silence and the adds that happened seem tailored to ND. Plus, the dawn of super-conferences is upon us it seems and we will be choosing eventually.

 

[B1G20]

Anyone that’s been following this heavily have an inclination whether this is likely or not?

It's more likely then ever just because of NIL and the revenue gap that's about to form between ND and everyone in the SEC/B1G. UCLA/USC jumped not because they want to play in the B1G, but because the SEC made a move last summer to generate massive revenue. It was rumored that, best case scenario, the new PAC TV deal in 2024-25 was going to pay around $30M-$40M per school. Meanwhile, everyone in the B1G would be making $80M-$100M - that kind of gap isn't sustainable.

The problem for ND is their TV deal is always going to be underpaid. It's currently around $20M, and I'm sure that might double when it goes to market, but they're never going to maximize their value because it's only 6/7 games of inventory. And for NBC, they don't have any other content, so all the ND road games provide them zero value. When a network bids for the B1G or SEC, they know they're going to control all 9 conference games (B1G), plus probably 2 out of 3 non-cons for the helmet schools.

Even if ND moved it's contract at the renewal to ESPN/Fox, any road games to properties that the other controls is a value bleed.

 

[Dale]

Waiting? Neither the B1G nor the SEC is going to turn ND down in x number of years. Meanwhile the stakes will get higher for both of them over time.

It’d rather have ND enter the picture now and Swarbrick helping shape the future of the B1G then us enter the party after decisions have been already made.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Anyone that’s been following this heavily have an inclination whether this is likely or not?

A lot of ND-centric media seem to be selling the fanbase on the idea. I don’t think they know but I think they have a good idea what it would take to convince the administration to join.

Pete Sampson noted that ND has been soliciting funds for athletics the past few years whereas before that they never had to because it was a net positive cashflow to the school.

 

[Blazers46]

I said it yesterday and it’s still here.

BURN


THIS


THREAD

 

[CoachB]

Think about how exciting an Atlantic game would be in South Bend when Rutgers comes to town.

First game I had ever been to. Lou's last game. Carried off the field. ND 62 Rutgers 0

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

It’d rather have ND enter the picture now and Swarbrick helping shape the future of the B1G then us enter the party after decisions have been already made.

Yeah, I think we’re both trying to figure out which way gives ND the most concessions. If the B1G offers nothing but equal membership (and giving up their status on NBC) then I think they get more by waiting for the ACC feeding frenzy. If the B1G offers some special concessions now then that might not be on the table later in the game.

 

[GATTACA!]

Ohio State is deez nuts.

 

[CoachB]

if they can get a southern presence it would be much more attractive. That 20 team lineup still isn’t that great even with those Western schools.

Definitely NEED a southern presence.

 

[B1G20]

It’d rather have ND enter the picture now and Swarbrick helping shape the future of the B1G then us enter the party after decisions have been already made.

This too... It's becoming clear, and Swarbrick even explicitly stated it, that eventually anyone wanting to play at the top level is going to need to be in the B1G or SEC. ND could hold out for a few more years probably, until the SEC goes for the kill shot on the ACC, but they know the decision is inevitable at this point. Might as well pick now and make it as palatable as you can

If they want the SEC, that's fine and they'd be invited I'm sure, but it seems to me they'd be an academic, geographic, and cultural outlier in the SEC, whereas they fit well in all those areas with the B1G. And now they the B1G has exposure on both coasts, ND can negotiate 9 conference game max now and use non-cons to keep games in the south.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

With the current alignment proposals at this point I don’t think the ACC has the bargaining power or national footprint to aid ND or give them a beneficial proposal.

I also distinctly remember a quote from a high up SEC admin saying that after thenOU/UT addition, ND is the only other team they would consider adding at that point because of their prestige and national footprint.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

No panic mode at all. I believe that Jack knew this was coming. We (ND) have a great longstanding relationship with USC. The whole two hemisphere quip Jack made a couple months back means more now than ever. ND will not panic, but we will lay the ground work if it needs to be laid.

I am not a Jack fan, but I have to give him create for being connected with people that are important across the landscape of college sports.

Yeah, Swarbrick has been on top of this. If we are joining the Big Ten, its not a reaction, but based on a lengthy assessment of the landscape of the sport and the future.

Notre Dame AD Jack Swarbrick says total Division I realignment is ‘inevitable’ - Sports Illustrated

Wholesale change is unavoidable in college athletics. The Fighting Irish athletic director thinks a total realignment of Division I is coming with it.

www.si.com

“We’re going to have these two conferences that have so distanced themselves from anyone else financially,” Swarbrick said. “That’s where I see it starting to break down. There are so many schools trying to get out of their current conference, and they can’t get there.”

Asked which schools could be looking to move, Swarbrick answered, “None that I’d share.”

Swarbrick knew this was coming. We may have our hand forced in terms of independence, but its not because Swarbrick was caught off guard.

Amid unprecedented instability and change, Swarbrick and others are searching for the best path forward.

“I’ve been toying with a whole bunch of concepts, most of which probably don’t work,” said the 68-year-old Swarbrick, who has been the AD at Notre Dame since 2008. “But we’ve got to get something advanced that people will react to.

“My goal was to steer this to a safe harbor—that may be a pipe dream. Especially take the word safe out of it. I’d like to take a real shot at trying to facilitate something people will at least consider nationally. See if we can make any progress. I’d hate to leave without trying.”

It may just be that joining the Big Ten is only the first step. If there is a breakaway like so many predict, we may have to be inside the system in order to help steer it.

In a wide-ranging interview with SI, the only athletic director who is part of the College Football Playoff Management Committee said the fracture lines within the 130-member FBS could leave two disparate approaches: schools that still operate athletics within a traditional educational structure, and those who tie sports to the university in name only.

“There’s always been sort of a spectrum—and I want to stress that everything along the spectrum is valid; it’s not a criticism,” Swarbrick said. “On one end of the spectrum, you license the school name and run an independent business that’s engaged in sports. The other end of the spectrum, you’re integrated into the university in terms of decision making and requirements, and some follow that.

I think most people too this to mean most big teams would join the "business" league and we would be stuck in the left behind "student" league. What might actually be happening is that the "student" league isn't getting left behind, but is actually competing with the "business" league. Its just that instead of the "business" being both the SEC and Big Ten while "student" is NCAA, its actually just the SEC that is "business" while the Big Ten is staking its claim as the "student" alternative.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

This too... It's becoming clear, and Swarbrick even explicitly stated it, that eventually anyone wanting to play at the top level is going to need to be in the B1G or SEC. ND could hold out for a few more years probably, until the SEC goes for the kill shot on the ACC, but they know the decision is inevitable at this point. Might as well pick now and make it as palatable as you can

If they want the SEC, that's fine and they'd be invited I'm sure, but it seems to me they'd be an academic, geographic, and cultural outlier in the SEC, whereas they fit well in all those areas with the B1G. And now they the B1G has exposure on both coasts, ND can negotiate 9 conference game max now and use non-cons to keep games in the south.

True but a future SEC might have a bunch of ACC members who improve the compatability. It probably won’t be great but ND would also be worth more to the SEC than they are to the B1G, I think.

 

[Dale]

Yeah, I think we’re both trying to figure out which way gives ND the most concessions. If the B1G offers nothing but equal membership (and giving up their status on NBC) then I think they get more by waiting for the ACC feeding frenzy. If the B1G offers some special concessions now then that might not be on the table later in the game.

IMO besides helping choose who will join the conference, the other piece ND can try to control now is who is picking up these games besides Fox? Fox won’t have them all. Can Fox + FS1 + B1G Network really broadcast everything? I don’t think so. It’d be trying to rope in CBS or NBC to have a game of the week, which CBS is losing, and ensure every ND home game is still nationally broadcasted.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Since this is all about money, the issue of scheduling for recruiting facilitation probably won't enter the "join-the-league" decisions, but I'll just toss in the reminder that coaches would not only like "access" to hot spots like southern California, Houston and Dallas, and Georgia-Florida, but a quietly major recruiting area is the Virginia-Carolinas coastal area. Many schools who are not as established in Florida circles as they'd like, go to the mid-Atlantic coast to recruit speed. AND as we've just shown, there is power there too.

My guess at a solution for ND, whenever the merging occurs, is nine conference games (probably in the restructured B1G) plus three out-of-conference games to invade the recruiting hot spots. We already recruit all over without necessarily playing in all those spots anyway (by the way, so does Michigan, they're just stinking more at it this year), so we might not need to schedule everywhere anyway. If we played in a restructured B1G, it would simplify the recruiting issue if either the California schools were regularly on our nine game sheet OR schools in the Mid-Atlantic coast speed zone.

 

[Gold1]

If the B1G could secure ND, Oregon, Wash, Stan, along with Miami, Fla St, Clemson, Duke it would be a phenomenal 24 team conf. Could have something like 4, 6 team regional divisions. Rotate 4 other division games and 2 non conf slots. 12th game is div champs squaring off seeds 1-4. 13th game is conf championship.
Would give B1G recruiting foothold across the country except in mid-south.
Something like:
USC, UCLA, Oregon, Wash, Stan, Neb
OSU, Mich, Mich St, IU, Pur, Iowa
ND, Penn St, Wisc, Minn, NW, IL
Clem, Miami, Fla St, Duke, Rutg, Maryland

 

[BilboBaggins]

Think you pretty much have to go divisions of five once you get to 20, and that appears to be where the B1G is heading. I posted this in the other thread, but my best guess would be something like this:

Pacific
USC
UCLA
Oregon
Washington
Stanford

Great Plains
Wisconsin
Nebraska
Iowa
Minnesota
Illinois

Great Lakes
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Purdue
Indiana

Atlantic
Penn State
Notre Dame
Northwestern
Maryland
Rutgers

I'd go with this:

Pacific
Oregon
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Washington

Great Plains
Minnesota
Nebraska
Illinois
Iowa
Wisconsin

Great Lakes
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Penn State
Purdue
Rutgers

Atlantic
Indiana
Maryland
Michigan
Northwestern
Ohio State

I assume this means a nine-game schedule with no protected crossovers. I don't see how you split Ohio State and Michigan.

I think Notre Dame accepts this for two rivalries (Michigan State, Purdue), another historic foe that they have some history with (Penn State), and likes the presence in NJ/NY.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'd go with this:

Pacific
Oregon
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Washington

Great Plains
Minnesota
Nebraska
Illinois
Iowa
Wisconsin

Great Lakes
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Penn State
Purdue
Rutgers

Atlantic
Indiana
Maryland
Michigan
Northwestern
Ohio State

I assume this means a nine-game schedule with no protected crossovers. I don't see how you split Ohio State and Michigan.

I think Notre Dame accepts this for two rivalries (Michigan State, Purdue), another historic foe that they have some history with (Penn State), and likes the presence in NJ/NY.

ND isn't voluntarily giving up the oldest intersectional rivalry in CFB for MSU and Purdue. USC making the jump with us is probably one of the chief selling points.

 

[BilboBaggins]

ND isn't voluntarily giving up the oldest intersectional rivalry in CFB for MSU and Purdue. USC making the jump with us is probably one of the chief selling points.

Probably true. Then there is no good way to make the scheduling work.

This whole thing sucks IMO. But it is quickly becoming an obviously necessary evil.

 

[BilboBaggins]

I guess the solution would be to have one protected crossover game. But in a pod rotation, what do you do when the protected cross-over is in the pod you play?

This sucks. Money ruins everything.

 

[B1G20]

I'd go with this:

Pacific
Oregon
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Washington

Great Plains
Minnesota
Nebraska
Illinois
Iowa
Wisconsin

Great Lakes
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Penn State
Purdue
Rutgers

Atlantic
Indiana
Maryland
Michigan
Northwestern
Ohio State

I assume this means a nine-game schedule with no protected crossovers. I don't see how you split Ohio State and Michigan.

I think Notre Dame accepts this for two rivalries (Michigan State, Purdue), another historic foe that they have some history with (Penn State), and likes the presence in NJ/NY.

Here you're splitting all of:

Illinois/NW
Purdue/Indiana
Michigan/MSU
Notre Dame/USC
Rutgers/Maryland (I know, doesn't matter)

The lineup I proposed the only natural rivals you're splitting are ND/USC and NW/Illinois - I think you just say its a 9 game conference schedule and you give the ability to ND/USC and Illinois/NW to schedule each other "non conference" in the 4 of 6 years they aren't scheduled to play. That would lock up one of ND's non-cons though so that's the negative of going that route.

If ND wanted USC to be an every year thing, only way to really do that is put them in the Pacific division and not invite Stanford, which would be an option.

 

[Dale]

I think getting hung up on the geographical pods is somewhat presumptuous on how it will unfold. Look at what the ACC just did:

- Clemson: Florida State, Georgia Tech, NC State
- Florida State: Clemson, Miami, Syracuse
- North Carolina: Duke, NC State, Virginia

FSU and Syracuse a guaranteed game. BC and Miami (some historic aspects but nothing anytime recently). Louisville and Georgia Tech.

Above is the teams driving the bus and then some examples of collateral pod games. This model is not geographic based. It’s high interest, rivalry game based and then backfill in the rest. Obviously geography will end up having high correlation but if you’re gonna try to guess at the B1G, it’d start by ranking the rivalry, high viewership games and then fill in the rest. With what 3 games (ACC essentially preserved 2) would every team want annually.

 

[Dale]

Notre Dame: USC, Stanford
USC: Notre Dame, UCLA
Ohio State: Michigan
Michigan: OSU, Michigan State

You can start with stuff like that and work down. ND and the other power players rivalries which means views ($$$) will be valued over PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, Nebraska’s nonexistent rivalries or geographical limitations. Nor do games that seem easy to pod up like UCLA and Stanford for example HAVE to play annually.

 

[NDPhilly]

Honestly would rather play UCLA every year than Stanford.

 

[Valpodoc85]

Think you pretty much have to go divisions of five once you get to 20, and that appears to be where the B1G is heading. I posted this in the other thread, but my best guess would be something like this:

Pacific
USC
UCLA
Oregon
Washington
Stanford

Great Plains
Wisconsin
Nebraska
Iowa
Minnesota
Illinois

Great Lakes
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Purdue
Indiana

Atlantic
Penn State
Notre Dame
Northwestern
Maryland
Rutgers

The first 4 schools in the PAC are obviously USC/UCLA/Oregon/Washington. I'm not certain on the 5th, rumors are Cal/Stanford might just go Ivy League or drop football. If you can't get Stanford, Utah/Colorado/Arizona all meet the academic requirements for the B1G, plus add a whole new time zone for scheduling flexibility.

I'm not a Notre Dame fan, but the above division would make a lot of sense - regular games in Chicago and NYC, plus PSU as the every year rival. With 9 conference games you just rotate the division you play every year and that's your full schedule, win all the games and you go to the CCG.

The above wouldn't protect the USC game as an every year game though, perhaps the B1G would allow you to maintain that as a "non-conference" game in the 4 of 6 years the game wouldn't be on the conference schedule.

You'd have 3 non-cons available to schedule, I assume Navy, then at least one game in the south somewhere.

The above setup would preserve all critical B1G rivalries in division except NW/Illinois, but again, maybe the league office creates an exemption for that to be played as a "non-conference" game to protect it. Or just go to 10 conference games, but I kind of like 9 so you can keep 3 non-cons.

Problem to be worked out. You wind up with a two game conference championship. If you continue with a two game national championship you are pushing NFL type game numbers and injury will be a big issue