Another Shooting

drayer54

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Give up your fundamental rights and accept burdensome regulations designed to bankrupt the firearms industry and make gun ownership tougher but do nothing to stop bad guys while we still release violent criminals to the streets and refuse to maintain order during civil unrest and surging crime is not a message that resonates with me.

We pass UBC’s then another one happens- then what? Keep going… keep going… No thanks.
 

drayer54

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Ask any high school kid an they can tell you who the would be shooters are in their school. This is a mental health crisis. Expand counselor services (our son had about 1 total hour of interaction with his counselor in four years - impossible to schedule time even for basic curriculum counselling that has to happen). Identify the problems and get them help - which requires someone actually knowing and caring about individual students. If they are sick twists, some type of juvenile detention/ controlled environment after psych evals and/or parental/faculty recommendation. Rich people send their kids to $60k/year mental hospitals or military schools, poor people buy time until the psycho turns 18 and they can cut them loose (with many deciding to live in fear of that creature in the basement forever). Once 18 - we only institutionalize crazies if they break laws bad enough to send them to prison.

Identify and deal with the nut jobs instead of letting them run rampant through the streets waiting for someone to get hurt. If we can send $40B to Ukraine we can open some 24/7 "schools" to more directly weed out these sickos and determine which need permanent help. The threat of being sent away probably straightens out quite a few too. This also targets suicide and drug abuse which add up to 150,000 deaths last year versus some 25,000 homicides. Covid lock downs have FUBARed a generation shoving them further in to their social media obsessions - taking away guns and applying prayers isn't going to turn the tide IMO.
My wife is a teacher and they are not allowed to discipline kids. They have insane kids with serious issues and they have to be out back in the room. It’s all conscious discipline SEL crap and zero consequences and zero acknowledgement of real issues. They have kids groping kids- nothing. One kid pulled down his pants and told the principal to kiss his white ass- Back in class the next day.

They have kids who shut down pods and run away. Nothing.

This is why my wife (and the pay is shit) wants out of education. She doesn’t teach, she manages crazy kids and works her ass off and gets zero support.

Look at the kid in Parkland and the insane amount of red flags before that kid shots up the school. This is preventable. Charging a Hunter for letting his buddy use his shotgun on a bird hunt (felony under most UBC drafts) doesn’t stop anyone from committing violence.

I’ve supported letting states use permits (reviewed by sheriff) to qualify as a background check. That’s not unreasonable.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Care to explain where I said it's unsecured?
Just because it's not in a safe secured with an eye scan and 2FA doesn't mean its unsecured.

Also doesn't mean that I don't realize that a masterlock with a pattern lock and a hard case isn't the most secure.

I'll accept your apologies for your assumptions with the same grace and understanding as you offer them.
I did make the assumption that it's unsecure when you said it's under your bed. I have plenty of friends and family members who keep firearms in drawers, under mattresses, etc...all of which are fully loaded and unsecured. My apologies for jumping to conclusions.
 

Blazers46

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I suspect that if we totally outlawed guns these whacko's would find another way to do what they want whether it be a knife, bomb, chemical, fire, etc.

I feel so bad for these families. They were just starting their lives.
They would find a way to use guns…
 

ACamp1900

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I suspect that if we totally outlawed guns these whacko's would find another way to do what they want whether it be a knife, bomb, chemical, fire, etc.

I feel so bad for these families. They were just starting their lives.
To me it’s always been laughable that the ‘take all guns and outlaw them’ crowd tends to be the same as the ‘open borders’ crowd,… good luck doing both in practice and it working out.
 

Bishop2b5

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To me it’s always been laughable that the ‘take all guns and outlaw them’ crowd tends to be the same as the ‘open borders’ crowd,… good luck doing both in practice and it working out.

Doublethink​


Doublethink is a process of indoctrination in which subjects are expected to simultaneously accept two conflicting beliefs as truth, often at odds with their own memory or sense of reality
 

Rogue219

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Then you have the "Pro Life" "All Lives Matter" brigade on the flip side who pray about a problem they could give a shit about actually solving.
So that's where we are. The only country on Earth where this happens regularly just says there is nothing that can be done to stop it.
 

irishff1014

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Ask any high school kid an they can tell you who the would be shooters are in their school. This is a mental health crisis. Expand counselor services (our son had about 1 total hour of interaction with his counselor in four years - impossible to schedule time even for basic curriculum counselling that has to happen). Identify the problems and get them help - which requires someone actually knowing and caring about individual students. If they are sick twists, some type of juvenile detention/ controlled environment after psych evals and/or parental/faculty recommendation. Rich people send their kids to $60k/year mental hospitals or military schools, poor people buy time until the psycho turns 18 and they can cut them loose (with many deciding to live in fear of that creature in the basement forever). Once 18 - we only institutionalize crazies if they break laws bad enough to send them to prison.

Identify and deal with the nut jobs instead of letting them run rampant through the streets waiting for someone to get hurt. If we can send $40B to Ukraine we can open some 24/7 "schools" to more directly weed out these sickos and determine which need permanent help. The threat of being sent away probably straightens out quite a few too. This also targets suicide and drug abuse which add up to 150,000 deaths last year versus some 25,000 homicides. Covid lock downs have FUBARed a generation shoving them further in to their social media obsessions - taking away guns and applying prayers isn't going to turn the tide IMO.


Your second Half is right on point.

However, you are pretty much asking kids to assume who the shooters are. When that comes back and you end up in a lawsuit for discrimination and they come after your so. Or daughter for telling a false story that’ll on make the drama and situations worse.
 

Rogue219

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The shooter in Texas was 18 years old, meaning he's part of the generation that knows exactly what happens in lockdown drills since it's all he's ever known.
 

irishff1014

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More details will inevitably come out about this situation and it'd be wise for us all to consider the facts as they come. Typically, when these situations occur, emotions are running high and the same comments get regurgitated from their respective sides. Often times what we find is that neither side has all the correct answers.

Can we stop pointing fingers, look within, and think about ideas that might actually work?

For example, those who decry the 2A rarely stop to consider the unlikeliness of successfully stripping it from our Constitution or the length of time and resources required with such a feat. I've long opined that instead of wasting more time on that debate, which leads to only more school shootings happening (because of the all or nothing approach we've taken), why can't we guard our schools like we guard our prisons/banks? I genuinely hate the idea of what that might look like. But 1) it seems far more likely to get bipartisan agreement on required funding for said plan, 2) it can be instated immediately, 3) it strips no one of their Constitutional rights, and 4) as crazy as it sounds to have kids living in such conditions....at least they'd be living. My wife's school is 100% locked down during the day. I've always said that's a good first step, as it's basically impossible for anyone to get into their double sets of doors. But I'd actually love for armed security guards, police dogs, and metal detectors be at the entrances as well. If you have legit business at a school, there's no reason why you couldn't get in. But there is also no chance some random psycho with a gun is getting passed all of those security features.

Conversely, those on the Right who push back against any and all forms of updated gun reform policy need to really stop and think about why they're so adamantly against ANY changes. It's correct that new reforms may not have stopped this particular incident. It's correct that the Left will never stop trying to come after your guns. It's correct that "doing something may not always be better than doing nothing." But at what point is enough truly enough? Polling suggests that gun owners are in favor of some reforms, so why is nothing being done? Why aren't GOP politicians being held accountable for getting favorable guns laws passed? Laws, mind you, that still protect our 2A rights, but are common sense changes that may help to stop even one more shooting.

For the chatter towards mental health, fatherless society, desensitized children, etc....I say we address those too. Too many people are planting their flags on their respective sides, pointing fingers, and arguing passed each other. This doesn't have to be either/or situations. Maybe, just maybe, IT'S ALL OF IT.

I don’t claim to know it all but you did hit on some good points.
1. Every school should be locked from the outside. The only way to get in is but key card or being buzzed in.

2. Having a school resource officer in every school.

3. Installing medal detectors in every schools main entrance. You can’t go watch Disney on ice at you local civic center or arena with out going through one or your favorite professional sports team stadium or your local courthouse.

4. A top notch camera system or facial recognition software ware at the main entrances for the public. We do this at airports.


Our federal government waste so much money that these items could be done successfully.
 

IRISHDODGER

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The selective comparisons of the US to other countries is the latest political talking point. The same ones saying “what other country sees this kind of gun violence” were the same ones snarkily trolling folks who made similar comparisons to countries who seemed to handle COVID better, or had lower fatherless rates, or abortion rates/laws. So as soon as I hear that from either side, it’s pure rhetoric from one cult to blame the other.

Let’s talk about what we agree on: we are all anti-murder of kids, we all expect our national leadership to come together and propose solutions instead of listening to lobbyists & there’s a huge void created by previous POTUS (specifically LBJ & Reagan…bipartisan!) that has left those in need of mental health treatment on the streets or incarcerated.

Leadership has done anything but lead on this issue. As a hypothetical, let’s assume the complete ban of guns would solve the problem. That needs to start w/ leadership giving up their armed security. Sorry, if my kid can’t have armed security…I don’t want some 76-year-old bureaucrat claiming he/she is an exception to the rule. They had their chance to make a difference and failed; so step up and renounce armed -security and I’ll take you seriously. Take it one step further and require the “rich & famous” to do the same. They don’t need armed security either if we ban guns correct?

Another type of leadership that is sorely lacking in today’s society, is the lack of a leader in a family. Specifically, the fatherless rate. IMO, most of the societal problems in the US can be traced back to this but nationally (both from elected officials & media) this topic is rarely focused on. They’d rather fight over the results of this which end up landing where we are today. Whether is a lone, crazed lunatic or the gang violence that occurs daily & will continue to do so w/ nowhere near the outrage we see today over the heartbreaking loss of young lives in TX. RAISE YOUR KIDS. Doesn’t mean you have to stay in a bad marriage b/c divorce isn’t an excuse to not raise your kids. Doesn’t necessarily have to be the father…but EVERY kid needs a male role model to partner w/ the female role model (usually the single mom who gets abandoned) to properly raise a kid. It could be a step dad, an uncle, grandfather, etc. Why has the fatherless rate exploded over the past three decades compared to the early 60s and earlier?

Lastly, go look on Twitter or other social media. From the second a tragedy is reported, both sides sharpen their fangs and hit Facebook, Twitter, etc to bash their political opponents, post snarky memes/GIFs and used the tired old rhetoric that gives them that superiority complex that must be like a heroin high b/c it’s pervasive from both sides of any argument. I have a hard time being convinced that we are better off as a society b/c of inventions like Twitter, Facebook, etc. Do the benefits outweigh the negative impact?
 

ACamp1900

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I don’t claim to know it all but you did hit on some good points.
1. Every school should be locked from the outside. The only way to get in is but key card or being buzzed in.

2. Having a school resource officer in every school.

3. Installing medal detectors in every schools main entrance. You can’t go watch Disney on ice at you local civic center or arena with out going through one or your favorite professional sports team stadium or your local courthouse.

4. A top notch camera system or facial recognition software ware at the main entrances for the public. We do this at airports.


Our federal government waste so much money that these items could be done successfully.
95% of so cal schools would have to be rebuilt for point 1,… they’re almost all open air halls and portables etc,…
 

Rogue219

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18 years old. He purchased 2 AR 15 and 375 rounds. Can't legally buy beer or rent a car.
 
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dublinirish

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The selective comparisons of the US to other countries is the latest political talking point. The same ones saying “what other country sees this kind of gun violence” were the same ones snarkily trolling folks who made similar comparisons to countries who seemed to handle COVID better, or had lower fatherless rates, or abortion rates/laws. So as soon as I hear that from either side, it’s pure rhetoric from one cult to blame the other.

Let’s talk about what we agree on: we are all anti-murder of kids, we all expect our national leadership to come together and propose solutions instead of listening to lobbyists & there’s a huge void created by previous POTUS (specifically LBJ & Reagan…bipartisan!) that has left those in need of mental health treatment on the streets or incarcerated.

Leadership has done anything but lead on this issue. As a hypothetical, let’s assume the complete ban of guns would solve the problem. That needs to start w/ leadership giving up their armed security. Sorry, if my kid can’t have armed security…I don’t want some 76-year-old bureaucrat claiming he/she is an exception to the rule. They had their chance to make a difference and failed; so step up and renounce armed -security and I’ll take you seriously. Take it one step further and require the “rich & famous” to do the same. They don’t need armed security either if we ban guns correct?

Another type of leadership that is sorely lacking in today’s society, is the lack of a leader in a family. Specifically, the fatherless rate. IMO, most of the societal problems in the US can be traced back to this but nationally (both from elected officials & media) this topic is rarely focused on. They’d rather fight over the results of this which end up landing where we are today. Whether is a lone, crazed lunatic or the gang violence that occurs daily & will continue to do so w/ nowhere near the outrage we see today over the heartbreaking loss of young lives in TX. RAISE YOUR KIDS. Doesn’t mean you have to stay in a bad marriage b/c divorce isn’t an excuse to not raise your kids. Doesn’t necessarily have to be the father…but EVERY kid needs a male role model to partner w/ the female role model (usually the single mom who gets abandoned) to properly raise a kid. It could be a step dad, an uncle, grandfather, etc. Why has the fatherless rate exploded over the past three decades compared to the early 60s and earlier?

Lastly, go look on Twitter or other social media. From the second a tragedy is reported, both sides sharpen their fangs and hit Facebook, Twitter, etc to bash their political opponents, post snarky memes/GIFs and used the tired old rhetoric that gives them that superiority complex that must be like a heroin high b/c it’s pervasive from both sides of any argument. I have a hard time being convinced that we are better off as a society b/c of inventions like Twitter, Facebook, etc. Do the benefits outweigh the negative impact?
oh FFS this shite again
 

ulukinatme

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Heavy .com has a video they say is this latest psycho just walking through the doors of this school.
How in the actual fuck was he able to do that?


This little fucker had police chasing him walks through the doors of an elementary school and he was able to do this.

Look I'm a big proponent of the 2nd Amendment.
But I am truly sick and tired of hearing about this shit.

Couple of AR's in my house one is under my bed my kids know where it is and know how to operate it. Maybe I was lucky that my kids never snapped. Maybe my kids never snapped because they knew I was always in their corner.
I'm not the only gun owner in America today who's kids aren't going to snap.

During the lockdowns, as totalitarian as I thought they were, this shit wasn't happening. Maybe that's the answer. Kids can't get shot up if they aren't all grouped together in a soft location. Sports and activities are a wonderful way to make life long friends anyways.
This shit didn't happen when every neighborhood had it's own elementary school. When every school district had multiple middle schools and high schools.

Now we pressure our kids hard. Gotta get the best grades get into the best University.
Yeah pressure can create diamonds, but enough pressure also crushes diamonds and Mom and Dad are both so busy working that when the kid tries to speak out they can't hear them.

Maybe I'm just rambling. But I do know Monday night I literally had a converation with my youngest because of the pressure she's been putting on herself.
Poor kid is getting the 1st D of her life in the 4th marking period of her sophmore year after getting her license and her first boyfriend.
Poor girl was freaking herself out so bad she actually started feeling depressed.
That was my question! My kids have been in three different schools in the last few years between moving and special needs for my son. All three of them were locked down, and you couldn't get in without the front office buzzing you in. It's one of the many safeguards that could have helped prevent this.
 

ulukinatme

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Stunning little graph. What’s changed over the last 5-6 years?

View attachment 3050674

Definitely, what's changed since 2018 when the numbers more than doubled from the general average, and then the last two years have gone even further bonkers? I would guess 2021 and beyond would have something to due with the long term affects of the pandemic and the instability affecting people.
 

Armyirish47

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Definitely, what's changed since 2018 when the numbers more than doubled from the general average, and then the last two years have gone even further bonkers? I would guess 2021 and beyond would have something to due with the long term affects of the pandemic and the instability affecting people.


I'm not sure what the technical term is but there is a metric butt ton of more guns with sales reaching record levels in 2020.
 

Valpodoc85

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Society is habital order from chaos. We all know the order created in some societies is better than others. The US is based on individual liberties. This means less order more chaos than more regimented society. These attacks are attempts to increase chaos. I believe this means we have tipped to far away from order.
Now how to restore order....
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Homemade explosive would actually be something new. Not to be flippant, but the killings in the streets of Memphis, St. Louis, Little Rock, Chicago, etc. aren’t happening due to homemade explosives.

My battle cry is we’re not a serious enough nation to solve our problems. We let power and money divide us so the discussions we need to have go in the direction this one is going right now. I heard Steve Kerr talking about background checks, not anti gun. Did we hear different things?

There are countries all over the world where this never happens. What’s the common denominator?
The shooter legally purchased the weapon, so are we to assume that the battle cry is US citizens shouldn't be allowed to have guns and only gov/ military can?

Yeah, you don't often hear of shooting sprees in the UK or Middle East. You see subway/ train bombings and suicide blasts in malls. Because people set on killing are going to kill, and we can't prevent 100% of them. People die every year at the hands of knives and hammers, but we can't ban them.

A few years ago a guy in a van rolled right down the sidewalk and killed people in Canada. We aren't banning cars.
 

drayer54

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Then you have the "Pro Life" "All Lives Matter" brigade on the flip side who pray about a problem they could give a shit about actually solving.
So that's where we are. The only country on Earth where this happens regularly just says there is nothing that can be done to stop it.
Just because someone doesn’t like your crappy idea, doesn’t mean they don’t give a shit about the problem.
 

TorontoGold

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If the "they would kill people anyways" was true, wouldn't homicide rates be similar to peers? UK is at 1.2, CAN 1.96, France 1.20, Germany 0.95...US is at 4.96.

Regards to parenting, from 2014 so grain of salt - Single parents worldwide: Statistics and trends

UK has similar single parent %'s, yet homicides are 4x lower.

Poverty rates - Poverty Rate by Country 2022

UK/Italy/Greece all have higher poverty rates. Much lower homicide rates.

Statistically parenting and poverty rates would not be a good predicator of crime at a macro level. Might be some structural issues rather than cultural problems.
 

Rockin’Irish

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We can certainly compare statistics with other countries but we‘d also be wise when looking at murder rates to take into account statistics associated with mental health care, education levels, ethnicities, socioeconomics including poverty rates (as TG mentions), gun laws, illegal drug use, organized crime, male vs. female populations, overall populations, urban vs. suburban vs. rural, family support systems, etc. Murder rates are a useful comparative indicator but there are many other factors. I haven’t researched much into murder rates but I’d fathom a guess that the vast majority of US murders occur in urban areas where socioeconomic conditions are poor and if this is the case, this alone would skew the numbers as compared to smaller countries with fewer urban areas. Firearms (legal and illegal) certainly factor into the murder rates, in this country and worldwide.
 
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