2023 - State of the Recruiting Class

[IrishLax]

I made a comment the other day that i think Freeman was a perfect hire for ND and he was going to do fabulous job here. He has brought more excitement then Kelly ever did but with these NIL deals going out i don't know it's possible if we can even win another national championship. No way ND is going to allow these students to collect 1 million dollars.

Yeah, the main issue -- and maybe it ends up helping ND more than hurting, I'm really not sure -- is that the system is now being set up to be as mercenary as possible with the fewest restrictions that have ever existed in any major sport (pro or amateur).

All at once they let kids have agents while in school + allowed them to have virtually unchecked streams of money from third parties + allowed students to swap schools on a whim and without restriction. The money leads to incentives to make short term decisions focused strictly on immediate compensation; the agents facilitate tampering and transactions because they want their cut; and the immediate eligibility is tantamount to perpetual free agency. Like you could hypothetically have had someone like Sam Howell or Malik Wills quit on UNC at the beginning of the season and transfer to Georgia to try to win a championship. Something like that will happen in the near future, and it's insane.

Is this better or worse than the era of bag men and street agents? I'm not sure. But when the dirtiest coaches at some of the dirtiest schools are sounding the alarm bell then you know things are starting to overheat behind the scenes.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/si_ncaafb/status/1471191744364838912?s=20[/TWEET]

 

[BobbyMac]

Seems like signing 5 or 6 WR's in one cycle sets the roster up for further problems down the road.

So easy for them to transfer nowadays.

Word of advice for NextDel: Don't sign 5-6 RKG's. The one's who get buried on the depth chart might actually try and stick around for the degree.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

So easy for them to transfer nowadays.

Word of advice for NextDel: Don't sign 5-6 RKG's. The one's who get buried on the depth chart might actually try and stick around for the degree.

This but without italics. It's a race to the bottom right now.

 

[Riddickulous]

Yeah, the main issue -- and maybe it ends up helping ND more than hurting, I'm really not sure -- is that the system is now being set up to be as mercenary as possible with the fewest restrictions that have ever existed in any major sport (pro or amateur).

All at once they let kids have agents while in school + allowed them to have virtually unchecked streams of money from third parties + allowed students to swap schools on a whim and without restriction. The money leads to incentives to make short term decisions focused strictly on immediate compensation; the agents facilitate tampering and transactions because they want their cut; and the immediate eligibility is tantamount to perpetual free agency. Like you could hypothetically have had someone like Sam Howell or Malik Wills quit on UNC at the beginning of the season and transfer to Georgia to try to win a championship. Something like that will happen in the near future, and it's insane.

Is this better or worse than the era of bag men and street agents? I'm not sure. But when the dirtiest coaches at some of the dirtiest schools are sounding the alarm bell then you know things are starting to overheat behind the scenes.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/si_ncaafb/status/1471191744364838912?s=20[/TWEET]

How so?

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Yeah, the main issue -- and maybe it ends up helping ND more than hurting, I'm really not sure -- is that the system is now being set up to be as mercenary as possible with the fewest restrictions that have ever existed in any major sport (pro or amateur).

All at once they let kids have agents while in school + allowed them to have virtually unchecked streams of money from third parties + allowed students to swap schools on a whim and without restriction. The money leads to incentives to make short term decisions focused strictly on immediate compensation; the agents facilitate tampering and transactions because they want their cut; and the immediate eligibility is tantamount to perpetual free agency. Like you could hypothetically have had someone like Sam Howell or Malik Wills quit on UNC at the beginning of the season and transfer to Georgia to try to win a championship. Something like that will happen in the near future, and it's insane.

Is this better or worse than the era of bag men and street agents? I'm not sure. But when the dirtiest coaches at some of the dirtiest schools are sounding the alarm bell then you know things are starting to overheat behind the scenes.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/si_ncaafb/status/1471191744364838912?s=20[/TWEET]

This is going to get crazy, crazy when the B1G signs its next television deal. The SEC and B1G will be miles ahead of the rest of the nominal P5 in revenue. Do the ACC, Big 12 and PAC want to compete? Do the big fish in those conferences just do what Oklahoma and Texas did to see an immediate $40 million bump in annual revenue?

People talk about the P5 splitting away and they have it all wrong, I think. If we move to a situation where schools really are buying players then the hope of an Iowa State reaching elite status (without being stripped for parts immediately after they cobble together a great team) goes from small to absolute zero.

What happens to fan investment in that scenario?

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

How so?

Notre Dame has money, an athletic department that runs in the black, and an active alumni base. The obstacles to spending like the biggest programs is the University's reluctance to commit resources to football in light of its overall mission.

If the donating classes can circumvent university leadership and commit resources without their direct purview it might actually accelerate this financial investment into football.

Is my guess.

 

[Luckylucci]

Seems like signing 5 or 6 WR's in one cycle sets the roster up for further problems down the road.

Agreed.

And this is why I said this will be a problem for multiple years. This will not be a quick fix through the portal. This will be something that has to be addressed over multiple cycles.

 

[IrishLax]

How so?

OK so look at how certain programs who recruit at a very high level on paper have absolutely imploded in recent years. The main reason is stability/culture/discipline. Now imagine that you add to that money first players + the ability to quit on your team on a whim + coaches recruiting guys through the portal to take your spot. Those teams might be dumpster fires same as they were before no matter how many players that they buy because of cohesion problems.

Then teams that have succeeded recently based on stockpiling talent and beating up on weak in-conference competition -- Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, etc. -- suddenly are going to have a harder time managing their rosters. This is what Dabo is bemoaning. Dabo literally built Clemson through tactics that given him no edge anymore.

Meanwhile, if ND is self-selecting out cancers, it puts them at a competitive advantage. Or maybe recruiting dries up entirely and ND goes back to the dark ages. I'm not really sure. But there's an edge case where the teams that come out on top of the "wild west" era are ones like Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Utah, etc. Maybe even Stanford makes a resurgence.

 

[Rack Em]

With all the NIL money floating around, we should probably temper our expectations for the 2023 class. This class has a full year for schools to put together offers for recruits before they sign.

Buckle up. I don't think this is going to be pretty.

 

[Irish#1]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/si_ncaafb/status/1471191744364838912?s=20[/TWEET]

Dabo's smart. His little empire is starting to crumble and he knows it. He gets in front of it by blaming the NIL and other schools that are tampering. Then when Clemson goes back to their norm it's not his fault and his reputation is still solid.

 

[Riddickulous]

NIL is completely fine with me as long as they kill the one time transfer rule. The G5 and lower tier programs would never be able to build a successful team. Every player who has a semi-decent season will have NIL money dangled in front of them and bail for a bigger program.

 

[rtrn2glory]

NIL is completely fine with me as long as they kill the one time transfer rule. The G5 and lower tier programs would never be able to build a successful team. Every player who has a semi-decent season will have NIL money dangled in front of them and bail for a bigger program.

Yea they need to go back to the sitting a full year for transfers. I'd even be willing to say they lose that year of eligibility that they sit.

 

[NDRock]

OK so look at how certain programs who recruit at a very high level on paper have absolutely imploded in recent years. The main reason is stability/culture/discipline. Now imagine that you add to that money first players + the ability to quit on your team on a whim + coaches recruiting guys through the portal to take your spot. Those teams might be dumpster fires same as they were before no matter how many players that they buy because of cohesion problems.

Then teams that have succeeded recently based on stockpiling talent and beating up on weak in-conference competition -- Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, etc. -- suddenly are going to have a harder time managing their rosters. This is what Dabo is bemoaning. Dabo literally built Clemson through tactics that given him no edge anymore.

Meanwhile, if ND is self-selecting out cancers, it puts them at a competitive advantage. Or maybe recruiting dries up entirely and ND goes back to the dark ages. I'm not really sure. But there's an edge case where the teams that come out on top of the "wild west" era are ones like Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Utah, etc. Maybe even Stanford makes a resurgence.

I think the best case for ND is we continue to recruit at or slightly above our current standard and our culture remains high. Then, the top 5 star guys get spread out by chasing NIL money, enabling us to compete on the field with anyone.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I think the best case for ND is we continue to recruit at or slightly above our current standard and our culture remains high. Then, the top 5 star guys get spread out by chasing NIL money, enabling us to compete on the field with anyone.

Georgia signed (5) 5-stars on ESP day. Anthony Lucas is TAMs 4th highest DL. When unhindered money is involved Im expecting top tier talent to be coalescing with the money

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/si_ncaafb/status/1471191744364838912?s=20[/TWEET]

Dabo's smart. His little empire is starting to crumble and he knows it. He gets in front of it by blaming the NIL and other schools that are tampering. Then when Clemson goes back to their norm it's not his fault and his reputation is still solid.

Clemson will NOT be able to compete with the big boys because their donor base is so small and NIL opportunities are just not there in northwest South Carolina. He knows this. He lost 3 highly rated recruits and 9 players to the transfer portal this year alone PLUS their AD, OC, and DC. I dont think we see the Clemson we saw during their high point again. He is claiming tampering but what really happened is he lost players to schools with bigger NIL "opportunities".

I feel we will start to see the impact in the 23 class like all the teams coming after Keely and our other highly rated unsigned recruits. Prepare yourselves for ND to get outbid. How will 4 for 40 play to a recruit in this new era?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

With all the NIL money floating around, we should probably temper our expectations for the 2023 class. This class has a full year for schools to put together offers for recruits before they sign.

Buckle up. I don't think this is going to be pretty.

I actually wrote the post above before getting to this one. I think you are right. We will get outbid for top tier talent, some of them may already be a few of our current commits.

 

[tussin]

The one-time transfer rule is the killer for me. If it didn’t exist then you could play NIL money off depth chart and playing time in recruiting battles. Maybe $300K and a chance to play is more attractive than $400K and the bench to many kids.

Now the sport exists in a state of perpetual free agency… idiotic.

 

[IrishRazor82]

There will be no elasticity to the sport if this continues. It's like CBB for me, I don't even watch because any player worth watching is there for one season, now switch that to players just bouncing around.

NCAA screwed up by trying to get modern and "fair" and they'll lose their fans.

 

[Free Manera]

Georgia signed (5) 5-stars on ESP day. Anthony Lucas is TAMs 4th highest DL. When unhindered money is involved Im expecting top tier talent to be coalescing with the money

Where this really gets hairy is the transfer portal. A&M, Bama, etc. won't just buy recruits. They will also buy free agents through the portal. Bama will be filling every one of their roster holes with NFL talent.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Where this really gets hairy is the transfer portal. A&M, Bama, etc. won't just buy recruits. They will also buy free agents through the portal. Bama will be filling every one of their roster holes with NFL talent.

Their current pitch which seems to be very effective is they convince these kids to come knowing they will sit for a few years but when they do start it’s almost a garauntee they will get one or more years of auditioning for NFL scouts and be in the playoffs.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

In case you weren’t aware of why I’m so pessimistic about Clemson is that’s in a long term running joke from the 80s that Clemson is shady in football recruiting. Their donor fund is called IPTAY. You have probably seen those stickers on Clemson grads cars. It means I Pay Ten A Year. Used to be $10 dollars. Now it’s supposed to be much higher and helps get you tickets to games. The joke is that to everyone else in the state not a Clemson grad says it means It’s Probabtion Time Again Y’all. Lol

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Pete Sampson has had some solid takes lately on NIL. The recent Shamrock podcast helped me back off the cliff edge. It's worth a listen. If I have time, I'll listen again and jot down the bullet points. Bottom line, this isn't a dooms day scenario and ND has an opportunity to be just fine. Did any of you guys get bothered by Kyle Hamilton making 6-figures this season? ND has a great opportunity to market the hell out of their brand the opportunity it provides for these kids to make NIL money while in college, play for a great program, and get a legit education worth an incredible amount of money over their 40-year working career (beyond the NFL). I think Brandon Wimbush has something going on right now to help guys find connections for NIL money. Someone (sorry I can't recall the whole pod convo) mentioned that they can run NIL projections and gave the example of Jack Coan being able to triple his money making opportunity just by going to ND. Ian Book was projected to be a top 10 earner had the rules been in place a year prior. Things like that...it's a fantastic podcast and I really think people need to join me in backing off the ledge.

 

[NDdomer2]

so i was thinking yesterday. Why is it that we have Colin Cowherd a known USC guy giving our biggest star an NIL deal for radio when we have Mike Golic and Brady Quinn on radio. Where are our own folks at with this?

 

[tussin]

Pete Sampson has had some solid takes lately on NIL. The recent Shamrock podcast helped me back off the cliff edge. It's worth a listen. If I have time, I'll listen again and jot down the bullet points. Bottom line, this isn't a dooms day scenario and ND has an opportunity to be just fine. Did any of you guys get bothered by Kyle Hamilton making 6-figures this season? ND has a great opportunity to market the hell out of their brand the opportunity it provides for these kids to make NIL money while in college, play for a great program, and get a legit education worth an incredible amount of money over their 40-year working career (beyond the NFL). I think Brandon Wimbush has something going on right now to help guys find connections for NIL money. Someone (sorry I can't recall the whole pod convo) mentioned that they can run NIL projections and gave the example of Jack Coan being able to triple his money making opportunity just by going to ND. Ian Book was projected to be a top 10 earner had the rules been in place a year prior. Things like that...it's a fantastic podcast and I really think people need to join me in backing off the ledge.

Rose colored glasses. Down south we have fake shell companies giving away $500K for a teenager to sign a pair of Nikes. TAMU signed a historic class. They didn't all of a sudden get great at "recruiting" despite being a historically irrelevant program that has never won anything... they cheated and bought their class.

ND can be a top NIL draw in a world where the rules make sense and everyone follows them. Lax posted a few days ago where he thinks end game is 1) NCAA setting up a clearing house to (try to) regulate NIL money and 2) getting rid of the immediate transfer rules. That's a world where ND can actually leverage its brand advantages to win in the NIL game.

 

[Free Manera]

Rose colored glasses. Down south we have fake shell companies giving away $500K for a teenager to sign a pair of Nikes. TAMU signed a historic class. They didn't all of a sudden get great at "recruiting" despite being a historically irrelevant program that has never won anything... they cheated and bought their class.

ND can be a top NIL draw in a world where the rules make sense and everyone follows them. Lax posted a few days ago where he thinks end game is 1) NCAA setting up a clearing house to (try to) regulate NIL money and 2) getting rid of the immediate transfer rules. That's a world where ND can actually leverage its brand advantages to win in the NIL game.

They didn't cheat though.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

They didn't cheat though.

It's against the rules* to condition NIL on enrollment at a particular school.

*Rules = interim policy = unlikely to be enforced due to the complete absence of detail

 

[Dale]

The kids willing to make their decision based off highest bidder were never coming here anyway. The Ole Miss Nkemdiche class this isn’t new. Where ND needs to tighten up is on head to head tight and clean recruitments, being able to offer SOMETHING of note.

 

[Free Manera]

It's against the rules* to condition NIL on enrollment at a particular school.

*Rules = interim policy = unlikely to be enforced due to the complete absence of detail

In reality that doesn't come into play unless the kid leaves though. No one is signing the NIL deal until the player signs.

That will be an interesting aspect though, which some writers and coaches have touched on already. What happens when a kid was promised 50k every year, and transfers his sophomore year?

 

[Free Manera]

The kids willing to make their decision based off highest bidder were never coming here anyway. The Ole Miss Nkemdiche class this isn’t new. Where ND needs to tighten up is on head to head tight and clean recruitments, being able to offer SOMETHING of note.

Agree with that. Also ND doesn't seem like they will take this lying down. Sampson said Hamilton was one of the highest NIL earners this year and they aren't going to let that be a secret in recruitments.

It's too soon to freak out. ND could end up handling this very well and using the incredible resources of the alumni/booster network to be a frontrunner in NIL.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

The kids willing to make their decision based off highest bidder were never coming here anyway. The Ole Miss Nkemdiche class this isn’t new. Where ND needs to tighten up is on head to head tight and clean recruitments, being able to offer SOMETHING of note.

Real talk is this wont help ND close the gap in recruiting.