2023 - State of the Recruiting Class

[ab2cmiller]

In reality that doesn't come into play unless the kid leaves though. No one is signing the NIL deal until the player signs.

That will be an interesting aspect though, which some writers and coaches have touched on already. What happens when a kid was promised 50k every year, and transfers his sophomore year?

Would certainly make these "companies" think twice if these boosters were forced to still pay an athlete who transferred to another school.

I'm assuming that they would just make sure that they are structuring the NIL deals as yearly contracts.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

In reality that doesn't come into play unless the kid leaves though. No one is signing the NIL deal until the player signs.

That will be an interesting aspect though, which some writers and coaches have touched on already. What happens when a kid was promised 50k every year, and transfers his sophomore year?

Sure, the agreements aren't conditional but the unwritten offers are.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

Pete Sampson has had some solid takes lately on NIL. The recent Shamrock podcast helped me back off the cliff edge. It's worth a listen. If I have time, I'll listen again and jot down the bullet points. Bottom line, this isn't a dooms day scenario and ND has an opportunity to be just fine. Did any of you guys get bothered by Kyle Hamilton making 6-figures this season? ND has a great opportunity to market the hell out of their brand the opportunity it provides for these kids to make NIL money while in college, play for a great program, and get a legit education worth an incredible amount of money over their 40-year working career (beyond the NFL). I think Brandon Wimbush has something going on right now to help guys find connections for NIL money. Someone (sorry I can't recall the whole pod convo) mentioned that they can run NIL projections and gave the example of Jack Coan being able to triple his money making opportunity just by going to ND. Ian Book was projected to be a top 10 earner had the rules been in place a year prior. Things like that...it's a fantastic podcast and I really think people need to join me in backing off the ledge.

The problem with this is that Hamilton is an established star in his third year. Using that as a selling point is showing recruits what they could get in a few years if they are successful whereas an SEC school will show the recruits what they will get as soon as they walk on campus. You are talking about a possible upside for a select few versus an almost guarantee for right away.

I mean, if we're trying to get all finance-y, there is risk involved in the Hamilton deal because there is a low percentage chance of actually being that level of star player, so the risk-adjusted expected return could be much greater for signing at a SEC school with a sham NIL deal even if the actual dollar amount is less.

If we are trying to sell the money that could be made if you are a star, then we need to blow the competition away, not simply be among the top.

 

[ab2cmiller]

The problem with this is that Hamilton is an established star in his third year. Using that as a selling point is showing recruits what they could get in a few years if they are successful whereas an SEC school will show the recruits what they will get as soon as they walk on campus. You are talking about a possible upside for a select few versus an almost guarantee for right away.

I mean, if we're trying to get all finance-y, there is risk involved in the Hamilton deal because there is a low percentage chance of actually being that level of star player, so the risk-adjusted expected return could be much greater for signing at a SEC school with a sham NIL deal even if the actual dollar amount is less.

If we are trying to sell the money that could be made if you are a star, then we need to blow the competition away, not simply be among the top.

Not sure if that's true. I would think some recruits would recognize that the smart choice might be to sacrifice some NIL money up front if it means that they have an opportunity to build a national brand. I would think that ND is better suited to help build a national brand then most other universities.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

The problem with this is that Hamilton is an established star in his third year. Using that as a selling point is showing recruits what they could get in a few years if they are successful whereas an SEC school will show the recruits what they will get as soon as they walk on campus. You are talking about a possible upside for a select few versus an almost guarantee for right away.

I mean, if we're trying to get all finance-y, there is risk involved in the Hamilton deal because there is a low percentage chance of actually being that level of star player, so the risk-adjusted expected return could be much greater for signing at a SEC school with a sham NIL deal even if the actual dollar amount is less.

If we are trying to sell the money that could be made if you are a star, then we need to blow the competition away, not simply be among the top.

Cool. Now do Jack Coan.....where it was projected that he more than tripled his NIL money making ability by transferring to ND. The message is what needs to be sold to recruits. ND's brand and their connections drastically change a kid's earning potential. No, it's not an immediate "bag man," but ND has the ability to sell it's own version of that over the course of a kid's life. Like someone said above, the Travis Hunters were never coming to ND anyways. ND can cast their usual net and then expand or in Freeman's terms, "enhance," their pitch to other kids who maybe aren't typical fits but can still be enticed to come play at ND.

 

[phillyirish]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/si_ncaafb/status/1471191744364838912?s=20[/TWEET]

Dabo's smart. His little empire is starting to crumble and he knows it. He gets in front of it by blaming the NIL and other schools that are tampering. Then when Clemson goes back to their norm it's not his fault and his reputation is still solid.

Poor Dabo. If this has got you upset, maybe you can wipe those tears away with one of the many bills your early recruits were so frequently flaunting on social media.

**Would be nice to post a photo of 2008 recruit Mike Bellamy holding up a wad of cash here, but this site is bound frustrating to use these days and no matter what I do it won’t accept inserting a photo.

 

[IrishLax]

Cool. Now do Jack Coan.....where it was projected that he more than tripled his NIL money making ability by transferring to ND. The message is what needs to be sold to recruits. ND's brand and their connections drastically change a kid's earning potential. No, it's not an immediate "bag man," but ND has the ability to sell it's own version of that over the course of a kid's life. Like someone said above, the Travis Hunters were never coming to ND anyways. ND can cast their usual net and then expand or in Freeman's terms, "enhance," their pitch to other kids who maybe aren't typical fits but can still be enticed to come play at ND.

I think this is something that Lane Kiffen was hitting on when he said “I sure hope they get all the money they’re being promised, because it’s a lot of money.”

ND is not willing to break the rules and explicitly promise someone “we will give you $200k if you sign on the dotted line.” Other schools are. At least one and probably all three of our decommits had that as a factor. ND is probably going to continue to do well with kids that are looking “big picture.” There's no telling whether kids will actually get all the money that is being verbally promised, because they aren't signing any deals before enrolling. Schools like Texas with their sham charities and financial commitments to "every OL on the roster" are a great way around the rules.

I think the biggest concern will have to be losing talented young players to the transfer portal once agents get in their ear about “I have a booster at School X that says they’ll pay you a truck load of money to transfer this summer.” This is already clearly happening. The best NIL reform is probably to set up an NCAA fiduciary that all deals have to originate from and go back to banning agents/direct booster contact.

 

[IrishLax]

Poor Dabo. If this has got you upset, maybe you can wipe those tears away with one of the many bills your early recruits were so frequently flaunting on social media.

**Would be nice to post a photo of 2008 recruit Mike Bellamy holding up a wad of cash here, but this site is bound frustrating to use these days and no matter what I do it won’t accept inserting a photo.

Click the photo button and either:
1) Upload something from your phone/computer, if it's small
2) Put the link in but make sure to uncheck "retrieve file and reference locally"

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I think this is something that Lane Kiffen was hitting on when he said “I sure hope they get all the money they’re being promised, because it’s a lot of money.”

ND is not willing to break the rules and explicitly promise someone “we will give you $200k if you sign on the dotted line.” Other schools are. At least one and probably all three of our decommits had that as a factor. ND is probably going to continue to do well with kids that are looking “big picture.” There's no telling whether kids will actually get all the money that is being verbally promised, because they aren't signing any deals before enrolling. Schools like Texas with their sham charities and financial commitments to "every OL on the roster" are a great way around the rules.

I think the biggest concern will have to be losing talented young players to the transfer portal once agents get in their ear about “I have a booster at School X that says they’ll pay you a truck load of money to transfer this summer.” This is already clearly happening. The best NIL reform is probably to set up an NCAA fiduciary that all deals have to originate from and go back to banning agents/direct booster contact.

Right. I'm not say it's not problematic. It definitely needs to be regulated. But I just also happen to think that ND and the players will find a way to do just fine enough. They won't have the promised money in terms of cash but they can point to earners like Kyle Hamilton and I'm sure others who made money and offer the ND brand and connection as a way to stimulate that earning potential. Again, there are obvious problems to be addressed. Things that will clearly be against ND's best interests. I just happen to think it's not a dooms day scenario.

 

[NDFAN420]

If a 5* is promised $1,000,000 and ends up sitting on the bench or transferring, I'm not sure that he's getting all or even most of that money. If a person has the wits to make that kind of money and dole it out to 18 year-olds, they've also got the wits to allocate it effectively. The kind of NIL money seen this year will definitely prompt some kind of action from some kind of governing body; ie new transfer rules, more transparent funds, IRS audits of "student-athletes", etc.

 

[NDRock]

Georgia signed (5) 5-stars on ESP day. Anthony Lucas is TAMs 4th highest DL. When unhindered money is involved Im expecting top tier talent to be coalescing with the money

Number of 5* players for 2021:

• Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Clemson - 59
• The rest of college football - 65

We need teams like Miami, FSU, USC, Notre Dame, etc… to steal some of these kids away. More parity will help us.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Number of 5* players for 2021:

• Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Clemson - 59
• The rest of college football - 65

We need teams like Miami, FSU, USC, Notre Dame, etc… to steal some of these kids away. More parity will help us.

The revenue disparity between the SEC/B1G and the rest is growing, though. I’m not sure those schools will have the appetite to keep up if they’re tens of millions behind in revenue. I will bet that Miami at least tries to join the SEC inside of a decade.

 

[NDRock]

The revenue disparity between the SEC/B1G and the rest is growing, though. I’m not sure those schools will have the appetite to keep up if they’re tens of millions behind in revenue. I will bet that Miami at least tries to join the SEC inside of a decade.

I’m not talking about Ohio State vs UCF. I’m talking about Ohio State having more 5* kids than the rest of the Big 10 combined (16 vs 11). Or Georgia having more than the rest of the SEC East combined (19 vs 11) or Bama having almost as many as the SEC combined (14 vs 15).

 

[FWIrish4]

Pete Sampson has had some solid takes lately on NIL. The recent Shamrock podcast helped me back off the cliff edge. It's worth a listen. If I have time, I'll listen again and jot down the bullet points. Bottom line, this isn't a dooms day scenario and ND has an opportunity to be just fine. Did any of you guys get bothered by Kyle Hamilton making 6-figures this season? ND has a great opportunity to market the hell out of their brand the opportunity it provides for these kids to make NIL money while in college, play for a great program, and get a legit education worth an incredible amount of money over their 40-year working career (beyond the NFL). I think Brandon Wimbush has something going on right now to help guys find connections for NIL money. Someone (sorry I can't recall the whole pod convo) mentioned that they can run NIL projections and gave the example of Jack Coan being able to triple his money making opportunity just by going to ND. Ian Book was projected to be a top 10 earner had the rules been in place a year prior. Things like that...it's a fantastic podcast and I really think people need to join me in backing off the ledge.

I listened to this today and the bolded above is completely missing the point. Nobody is upset Hamilton or current players are earning money through sponsorships or their own brand.

The major issue has already been touched on by everyone in this thread. Schools are setting up fake companies to pay recruits to just sign the dotted line. They can also tamper with other team’s rosters through these NIL “agents” and immediate transfer rules.

While listening, I was shocked that this was the example Sampson was trying to use to downplay the NIL issue. It’s not even remotely close to what everyone’s concerned about.

 

[ColinKSU]

I listened to this today and the bolded above is completely missing the point. Nobody is upset Hamilton or current players are earning money through sponsorships or their own brand.

The major issue has already been touched on by everyone in this thread. Schools are setting up fake companies to pay recruits to just sign the dotted line. They can also tamper with other team’s rosters through these NIL “agents” and immediate transfer rules.

While listening, I was shocked that this was the example Sampson was trying to use to downplay the NIL issue. It’s not even remotely close to what everyone’s concerned about.

I thought that as well. Pete completely missed the point.

 

[benneboy]

Anyone have an updated receiver board? With the rough ending to the 22 wr class we need to make up for it next year. Seems like an extremely weak start here especially if Tate ends up at OSU which most expect. I'm recognizing virtually nobody else in the 247 top 50 wrs. Probably a 5% chance we make a run at Jalen Brown.

 

[T-Boone]

Del has fully clocked off recruiting.
But the good news is MF is on it and he should kick Rees up the a-hole because Rees needs to lift his recruiting game massively.

 

[Luckylucci]

Noah Rogers would be the next best behind Tate and Brown per the 247 composite. He’s a really good prospect in his own right. And, we seem to be in the race for him.

Malik Elzy is a solid local IL WR that seems likely to be in the class.

Del visited Rico Flores when he was out in Cali so that’s a name they’ll probably continue to recruit.

Kyle Kasper is an exceptional talent that seems like guys we should at least get a shot at.

Laslty, Ronan Hanafin seems like a lock if they want him.

That’s certainly not everybody but some names. Not a great looking board. I think you can get to two commits with Hanafin and Elzy. That’s a solid start of 2 4 stars. Next step would be for Rees to get on it to ensure he doesn’t have the same thing happen at WR in back to back classes.

 

[arndtjc]

Noah Rogers would be the next best behind Tate and Brown per the 247 composite. He’s a really good prospect in his own right. And, we seem to be in the race for him.

Malik Elzy is a solid local IL WR that seems likely to be in the class.

Del visited Rico Flores when he was out in Cali so that’s a name they’ll probably continue to recruit.

Kyle Kasper is an exceptional talent that seems like guys we should at least get a shot at.

Laslty, Ronan Hanafin seems like a lock if they want him.

That’s certainly not everybody but some names. Not a great looking board. I think you can get to two commits with Hanafin and Elzy. That’s a solid start of 2 4 stars. Next step would be for Rees to get on it to ensure he doesn’t have the same thing happen at WR in back to back classes.

Are you referring to Jalen Brown, teammate of Sedrick Irvin at Gulliver?

 

[Luckylucci]

Are you referring to Jalen Brown, teammate of Sedrick Irvin at Gulliver?

Yes.

 

[NDIrish88]

Wonder if Micah Tease is an option at WR given the the positive DB situation?

 

[Luckylucci]

Wonder if Micah Tease is an option at WR given the the positive DB situation?

I, for one, would be for that.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Anyone have an updated receiver board? With the rough ending to the 22 wr class we need to make up for it next year. Seems like an extremely weak start here especially if Tate ends up at OSU which most expect. I'm recognizing virtually nobody else in the 247 top 50 wrs. Probably a 5% chance we make a run at Jalen Brown.

1) ESP is done, but there is the still the possibility of a late sign, small, but still possible.
2) Most expect Tate to sign at OSU? Giving up so easy?
3) 5% chance? Why do people put out stats that they just make up?
4) I just can't with so many on this board. We need a mute function

 

[MacIrish75]

Del has fully clocked off recruiting.
But the good news is MF is on it and he should kick Rees up the a-hole because Rees needs to lift his recruiting game massively.

When, exactly, was Del clocked in?

 

[PANDFAN]

1) ESP is done, but there is the still the possibility of a late sign, small, but still possible.
2) Most expect Tate to sign at OSU? Giving up so easy?
3) 5% chance? Why do people put out stats that they just make up?
4) I just can't with so many on this board. We need a mute function

you can certainly do this already

 

[benneboy]

1) ESP is done, but there is the still the possibility of a late sign, small, but still possible.
2) Most expect Tate to sign at OSU? Giving up so easy?
3) 5% chance? Why do people put out stats that they just make up?
4) I just can't with so many on this board. We need a mute function

Not sure where you are reading me giving up. I have no clue what he's going to do and know nothing about him, but not a lot of people on this board saying they expect him at ND.

If you really need to mute someone because they inquire about other options at wr due to the top of the board guys not looking likely... you need to reevaluate your sensitivity meter.

 

[NDFAN2008]

I feel like ND needs to bring in 1-2 underclassmen WR transfers regardless if anyone leaves or not looking at the 2023 class for WR it isn’t a great WR class. I would rather not bring in 3 3 star guys to just have bodies

 

[StPaul_Irish]

I feel like ND needs to bring in 1-2 underclassmen WR transfers regardless if anyone leaves or not looking at the 2023 class for WR it isn’t a great WR class. I would rather not bring in 3 3 star guys to just have bodies

I think a lot of us forget that Joe W is likely to come back. Its a win, he is proven, knows the system and plays all 3 spots. That being said, I still think we need to hit the portal for at least 1 if not 2.

 

[PANDFAN]

I think a lot of us forget that Joe W is likely to come back. Its a win, he is proven, knows the system and plays all 3 spots. That being said, I still think we need to hit the portal for at least 1 if not 2.

From a season ending knee injury.....it wasn't like the guy was explosive before, so not sure how much you really expect from him if in fact he does come back

 

[StPaul_Irish]

From a season ending knee injury.....it wasn't like the guy was explosive before, so not sure how much you really expect from him if in fact he does come back

True, however with depth being a concern... Joe W >= most in the portal. AND he knows the system