2020-21 NFL Season

Rogue219

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On Two Pros and a Cup of Joe, they referred to Gruden as collateral damage. With that many emails, there's going to be a lot more.

I mean, I have zero doubts that many others in the past and present share similar views to what Gruden said in his emails, which makes this far bigger than Gruden. He's just one spoke in the wheel. He's not an exception.

Too much money involved and too many powerful people won't let anything get out that shouldn't. Gruden and Schefter are the types of people who will fall here.
 

Rogue219

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[TWEET]https://twitter.com/chargers/status/1448411560284606468[/TWEET]

I loved this guy's defense last year with the Rams and I think he's going to be a great head coach.

For an NFL coach to sound like this five years ago would have been impossible.
 

TorontoGold

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[TWEET]https://twitter.com/chargers/status/1448411560284606468[/TWEET]

I loved this guy's defense last year with the Rams and I think he's going to be a great head coach.

For an NFL coach to sound like this five years ago would have been impossible.

This is king shit. Crazy to think there's others out there that want to carry water for Gruden.
 

Rogue219

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This is king shit. Crazy to think there's others out there that want to carry water for Gruden.

This probably isn't a good time to mention to Chicago Bears fans that this guy was on their staff a few years ago.
 

Rogue219

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Jon Gruden is not an outlier.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/14/s...jeff-pash.html

FBvXXoDX0AAj-Qf


FBvXXoDWQB4Nl6O
 

ulukinatme

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Wow, that change has been up since 7AM and no one has tried to change it yet :laugh:

[EDIT] Actually it looks like someone first changed it yesterday evening, it was reverted back around 3AM, then re-reverted back to Aaron Rodgers just before 7AM.
 

GATTACA!

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Just leave it. One of the most chad things I've ever seen.
 

Rogue219

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I'd call last night one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen, and mind you, I'm a Steelers fan. NFL Football, especially Big Ben, is difficult to watch.
 

Some Irish Bloke

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I'd call last night one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen, and mind you, I'm a Steelers fan. NFL Football, especially Big Ben, is difficult to watch.

The taunting rule, in general, is so fucking dumb. Last night's takes the cake for worst one yet. And I'm a Packers fan...I love to see CHI struggle but that was a horrible, horrible flag, especially at that point in the game.

Also, they missed a few late hits on Fields, IMO. Have to be more consistent in the highest level of the game.
 

Rogue219

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The taunting rule, in general, is so fucking dumb. Last night's takes the cake for worst one yet. And I'm a Packers fan...I love to see CHI struggle but that was a horrible, horrible flag, especially at that point in the game.

Also, they missed a few late hits on Fields, IMO. Have to be more consistent in the highest level of the game.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/WillBrinson/status/1457923360545988613[/TWEET]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1457923106811662341[/TWEET]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/WillBrinson/status/1457923849006338055[/TWEET]

I think their product is trash. College football, MLB, NBA and English Premier League are all far superior. I'm really getting bored with the NFL. The games are just extremely difficult to watch.
 

Rogue219

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[TWEET]https://twitter.com/CSimmsQB/status/1458410605149368321[/TWEET]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/airjer54/status/1458128296202358789[/TWEET]
 

ACamp1900

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I find it harder and harder to just sit and watch the NFL anymore... it's just not the same game and the product to me is worse for it. I get it if you are a fantasy football guy or just like having the noise on in the background while family/friends are over but to really sit and watch a random NFL game as a fan of the sport?? Man I find that is getting hard. I can watch my Brownies more often than not but even then I don't watch every game. Also,. yes, I feel it is fair to question the league when it comes to night's like Monday and which teams seem to get those calls and which don't... it just doesn't feel legit anymore in a way the other major sports leagues I consider myself a fan of do. Just my two cents...
 

Rogue219

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I find it harder and harder to just sit and watch the NFL anymore... it's just not the same game and the product to me is worse for it. I get it if you are a fantasy football guy or just like having the noise on in the background while family/friends are over but to really sit and watch a random NFL game as a fan of the sport?? Man I find that is getting hard. I can watch my Brownies more often than not but even then I don't watch every game. Also,. yes, I feel it is fair to question the league when it comes to night's like Monday and which teams seem to get those calls and which don't... it just doesn't feel legit anymore in a way the other major sports leagues I consider myself a fan of do. Just my two cents...

I'm there with you. When it comes to sports and everything else, way better options to spend your free time with. It is a combination of a lot of things, but this new initiative to referee taunting is really coming from a place of misguided motivation from the League. I completely "get" why they're doing it, but I think it's incredibly stupid.

I think the quality of play is suffering because we're still seeing the transitioning of the college game implemented into the NFL, obviously offense in particular. NFL teams are going to have to adjust to the skills of their quarterbacks, and most of these guys have known nothing but being in the shotgun running the spread and the only time they've seen a fullback is on YouTube or NFL Films.
 

Rogue219

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[TWEET]https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1458187122825998340[/TWEET]

I think this hits the nail on the head. "Act like you've been there before" is armchair QB for being uncomfortable.

They have been there before and that's why they celebrate. We haven't been there before and feel they should act a certain way.

In the end, what is this all about and why is the League really doing this?
 

Bishop2b5

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I find it harder and harder to just sit and watch the NFL anymore... it's just not the same game and the product to me is worse for it. I get it if you are a fantasy football guy or just like having the noise on in the background while family/friends are over but to really sit and watch a random NFL game as a fan of the sport?? Man I find that is getting hard. I can watch my Brownies more often than not but even then I don't watch every game. Also,. yes, I feel it is fair to question the league when it comes to night's like Monday and which teams seem to get those calls and which don't... it just doesn't feel legit anymore in a way the other major sports leagues I consider myself a fan of do. Just my two cents...

It pains me to admit it, but I agree with you. Very little about the NFL feels genuine any longer. It's like watching a reality show that you know is mostly scripted. It's become more scripted entertainment - a contrived spectacle - than genuine sports. If I wanted this shit I'd watch Roller Derby or WWE.
 

Bishop2b5

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[TWEET]https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1458187122825998340[/TWEET]

I think this hits the nail on the head. "Act like you've been there before" is armchair QB for being uncomfortable.

They have been there before and that's why they celebrate. We haven't been there before and feel they should act a certain way.

In the end, what is this all about and why is the League really doing this?

There's a HUGE difference between being excited, happy and celebrating a big play, vs showboating and engaging in scripted, choreographed celebrations. There's a HUGE difference between celebrating a big play and taunting. I thought this particular call was wrong, but trying to cut down on showboating and unsportsmanlike taunting are OK in my book.
 

Rogue219

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There's a HUGE difference between being excited, happy and celebrating a big play, vs showboating and engaging in scripted, choreographed celebrations. There's a HUGE difference between celebrating a big play and taunting. I thought this particular call was wrong, but trying to cut down on showboating and unsportsmanlike taunting are OK in my book.

Define it clearly, then. The calls this year have been all over the place.

A 300 lbs nose guard grabbing his nuts after a tackle is one thing versus pumping your fist or clapping, which is something else.

This is all just pandering to an audience that the NFL is going to lose eventually anyway. It's the least of their issues. If having everyone act like a Soviet hockey team from the 70s is what they want, believe me I understand, but the audience that is looking for that is shrinking if you know what I mean.

Their Thursday Night product is bad, they've added another game to the schedule, injuries mean practice squad players are on rosters which brings down the quality of play, they have coaches making PR nightmares off the field and.....The Raiders.
 

Bishop2b5

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Define it clearly, then. The calls this year have been all over the place.

A 300 lbs nose guard grabbing his nuts after a tackle is one thing versus pumping your fist or clapping, which is something else.

This is all just pandering to an audience that the NFL is going to lose eventually anyway. It's the least of their issues. If having everyone act like a Soviet hockey team from the 70s is what they want, believe me I understand, but the audience that is looking for that is shrinking if you know what I mean.

Their Thursday Night product is bad, they've added another game to the schedule, injuries mean practice squad players are on rosters which brings down the quality of play, they have coaches making PR nightmares off the field and.....The Raiders.

As I said in my original post, I disagreed with the call in the Steelers/Bears game. I thought the player's behavior was within the bounds of what's acceptable.

As for defining it clearly, here's what the college rulebook says (the NFL rules are similar, but a bit looser): “Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player (or players) attempts to focus attention upon himself (or themselves).” That's pretty much the definition of showboating or taunting. Players jumping up and down in excitement, jumping on each other, high fiving, and so on is great. Being excited and ecstatic after a big play is great. Taunting the other team, standing over a player and taunting him, grabbing your crotch, making vulgar signs to opposing fans or players, choreographed dance routines and such, etc. is something else.

In college at least, if you taunt an opponent on your way to scoring a TD, the infraction negates the score. In other words, you can't make taunting gestures or run backwards the final few yards or anything else we'd generally deem unsportsmanlike. I like these rules. I don't always like the inconsistent enforcement of them and I realize mistakes are made (guess what, they're made on PI, holding, and other infractions too), but dialing back the unsportsmanlike behavior is a good thing. We teach this to our kids in sports, to win or lose with grace an dignity... no taunting or bad sportsmanship.
 

Rogue219

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As I said in my original post, I disagreed with the call in the Steelers/Bears game. I thought the player's behavior was within the bounds of what's acceptable.

As for defining it clearly, here's what the college rulebook says (the NFL rules are similar, but a bit looser): “Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player (or players) attempts to focus attention upon himself (or themselves).” That's pretty much the definition of showboating or taunting. Players jumping up and down in excitement, jumping on each other, high fiving, and so on is great. Being excited and ecstatic after a big play is great. Taunting the other team, standing over a player and taunting him, grabbing your crotch, making vulgar signs to opposing fans or players, choreographed dance routines and such, etc. is something else.

In college at least, if you taunt an opponent on your way to scoring a TD, the infraction negates the score. In other words, you can't make taunting gestures or run backwards the final few yards or anything else we'd generally deem unsportsmanlike. I like these rules. I don't always like the inconsistent enforcement of them and I realize mistakes are made (guess what, they're made on PI, holding, and other infractions too), but dialing back the unsportsmanlike behavior is a good thing. We teach this to our kids in sports, to win or lose with grace an dignity... no taunting or bad sportsmanship.

So you thought it was within bounds. Maybe 5 other crews did too, maybe five other crews didn't. So it's basically subjective.

I'm trying to understand the harm of a choreographed dance/celebration by 11 men being paid to play professional sport. It's pearl clutching, faux outrage, but it bothers a core audience of NFL viewers they can't afford to lose right now. Just about all sports viewership is down and has been for the last few years even prior to Covid. Rather than expand their audience, they're trying to hold onto what they already have. It's ultimately up to them.

Their product sucks and if this is what they feel is going to make it better, they wouldn't be the first group of people sitting in a board room to make a decision that pissed into the wind. Nor the last.
 

ACamp1900

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Interesting experience just now while waiting for a meeting... the receptionist asks if I like football. I tell her I do. She then goes off on how stupid the league is for not kicking ARod out of the league entirely. I then hear a five minute rant on how he is this terrible person in general, his teams carry him and he's not nearly as good as people think, he's arrogant, overrated, has the best teams around him all the time, he's a cheater (how was never really stated), a massively egotistical jerk in general and now obviously a right wing nut job because he won't get the shot. I mean this person was fuming over it all... I think, "Must be a Bears fan or something" and I get curious so I end it all with,... "Out of curiosity who is your team?"
"Bucs" they answer...
"Bucs?, really why??"...
"I root for whoever Tom Brady plays for, he's the greatest ever." Shortly there after I was called into the meeting... what happened in the meeting I do not know as it took some time for my mind to completely unmelt.
 
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ulukinatme

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Interesting experience just now while waiting for a meeting... the receptionist asks if I like football. I tell her I do. She then goes off on how stupid the league is for not kicking ARod out of the league entirely. I then hear a five minute rant on how he is this terrible person in general, his teams carry him and he's not nearly as good as people think, he's arrogant, overrated, has the best teams around him all the time, he's a cheater (how was never really stated), a massively egotistical jerk in general and now obviously a right wing nut job because he won't get the shot. I mean this person was fuming over it all... I think, "Must be a Bears fan or something" and I get curious so I end it all with,... "Out of curiosity who is your team?"
"Bucs" they answer...
"Bucs?, really why??"...
"I root for whoever Tom Brady plays for, he's the greatest ever." Shortly there after I was called into the meeting... what happened in the meeting I do not know as it took some time for my mind to completely unmelt.

I thought this was appropriate. No comment, but Ray Lewis, and Ray Rice may have one.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1458886500293267465[/TWEET]
 

Irish#1

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Define it clearly, then. The calls this year have been all over the place.

A 300 lbs nose guard grabbing his nuts after a tackle is one thing versus pumping your fist or clapping, which is something else.

This is all just pandering to an audience that the NFL is going to lose eventually anyway. It's the least of their issues. If having everyone act like a Soviet hockey team from the 70s is what they want, believe me I understand, but the audience that is looking for that is shrinking if you know what I mean.

Their Thursday Night product is bad, they've added another game to the schedule, injuries mean practice squad players are on rosters which brings down the quality of play, they have coaches making PR nightmares off the field and.....The Raiders.

Who said, "I don't know how to describe porn, but I know it when I see it."? I think that's how you have to handle taunting.

I don't care if 7 or 8 players rush to the other end of the field to pose after an INT or something. If looks stupid as F, but it doesn't effect my viewership.

Interesting that you brought up TNF as I was thinking about the glory days of MNF with Cosell, Dandy Don and Gifford. MNF use to hold America captive back then. Why? Sunday night games weren't happening and they hadn't even thought about Thursday night games back then. The NFL has saturated itself too much at this point. They need to drop TNF.
 

Rogue219

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Who said, "I don't know how to describe porn, but I know it when I see it."? I think that's how you have to handle taunting.

I don't care if 7 or 8 players rush to the other end of the field to pose after an INT or something. If looks stupid as F, but it doesn't effect my viewership.

Interesting that you brought up TNF as I was thinking about the glory days of MNF with Cosell, Dandy Don and Gifford. MNF use to hold America captive back then. Why? Sunday night games weren't happening and they hadn't even thought about Thursday night games back then. The NFL has saturated itself too much at this point. They need to drop TNF.

TNF typically terrible after Week One.

Just not a good product. UNC vs Pitt last night was better than any NFL game I'm likely to see this year. So far, it has been.
 

Some Irish Bloke

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Bought a stock in the Packers this morning. That means I own a share of the entire NFC North by association, right?
 

Rogue219

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I have been close to certain since August Rodgers would be in the AFC come 2022. I think it is going to be incredibly likely now more than ever. Just a matter of where.

He's tight with Mike Tomlin, and I think Big Ben needs to hang up his cement pants once and for all.
 

Some Irish Bloke

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I have been close to certain since August Rodgers would be in the AFC come 2022. I think it is going to be incredibly likely now more than ever. Just a matter of where.

He's tight with Mike Tomlin, and I think Big Ben needs to hang up his cement pants once and for all.

If we still had Vbucks, I'd bet em all that he isn't going anywhere. The pundits have been wrong about all of this, every step of the way.

Every interview he's actually done, especially on the Pat McAfee show, he talks about his desire to retire with the Packers. I think he stepped away last offseason to send a message, it was received, and they're working with him a lot closer now on personnel decisions.

And a friendly reminder that the entire thing started based on a rumor from Adam Schefter, not based on any facts or sources, such as, you know, Aaron Rodgers himself.
 

Rogue219

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If we still had Vbucks, I'd bet em all that he isn't going anywhere. The pundits have been wrong about all of this, every step of the way.

Every interview he's actually done, especially on the Pat McAfee show, he talks about his desire to retire with the Packers. I think he stepped away last offseason to send a message, it was received, and they're working with him a lot closer now on personnel decisions.

And a friendly reminder that the entire thing started based on a rumor from Adam Schefter, not based on any facts or sources, such as, you know, Aaron Rodgers himself.

It's still a possibility. He's 37 years old. Brady and Manning both played for second teams. Brees ultimately stayed at the Saints for the remainder of his career.

At his age, that continuity is probably worth more to him that moving on. Stay there and finish it out. I just wonder if someone in the AFC will catch his eye.
 
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