Post Game: Cincinatti

[Luckylucci]

I’ll start with a nitpick on Freeman. I don’t think we play good situational defense. Last weeks pick sixes covered this up a bit. He needs to get better at using the change up more effectively. You simply cannot give up a 5 play 80 yard drive in 1 minute before half. And, it’s been that way before and after half on a few occasions now.

Oh, and stop dropping Foskey. He’s our best pass rusher and I counted 3 drops in pass rush situations in the first half. Let the best pass rushers, you know, rush the passer.

As others have said, Pyne should’ve started. We win if he starts. We all thought that going in. We all feel that way coming out. Very bizarre that they didn’t agree.

This OL and for the most part this offense feels really toxic. Not like they hate each other when BVG was here but very dysfunctional. Kelly continues to just gloss over how bad this OL is. And the dismissal of Pyne as starting QB going in is absurd. You lost this game because of that decision and that is your response? Crazy.

I loved BK’s halftime speech/message. But of course when it came to implementing it, they benched the QB they should’ve never started and a WR. Did any of the OL lose snaps besides Correll. STANDARDS. We have so many STANDARDS. They know all about the STANDARDS. You guys get it yet. There are STANDARDS. Apparently those standards only apply to some?

If we removed the names Quinn and Rees from the conversation and these were just random coaches on random teams. These results are not acceptable.

 

[Redbar]

-Not sure why the coaches are not seeing how ridiculous the QB rotation looks. Average fans could see after two quarters last week that Pyne gives this team the best chance to win. Buchner if he is going to be effective at all needs to be allowed to throw the football within the normal offense. But neither he nor Coan should have started this game.
-Why is our Oline so bad?? We recruit fairly well there, is it strength and conditioning or is it coaching and scheme? They look pretty bad.
-Been saying I don’t agree with this defensive scheme. I think the style is particularly flawed on the college level. It seems to require certain types of players, who aren’t on this roster as of yet. I see few in game adjustments and little game situational awareness.
-On both sides of the ball there seems to be an insistence to play and be something that this team just doesn’t seem to be. It’s better when coaches, ask players to do things that they can do and are good at rather than something that you want that particular position to be able to do.
-I feel like I have said this a couple times already this year, but ego and scheme are holding this team back, and the inability to recognize this and do something different is what is defining the limits of Coach Kelly’s success.

 

[ND88]

We’ve had a long relationship with being losers when it counts the most, particularly in the big games. One would think the trajectory of the program would reflect a gutted out entity.

Yet, the corporatization of Notre Dame has been stellar at maintaining a viable aesthetic built on histrionics. It’s become necessary economics to maintain the image we project. It’s warped any chance of the media being fair and balanced when covering this program, because we hide in the shadow of our history when we lose, and inflate the illusion of our future when we win. Hence, the haters that never give us credit. And the homers that always give way too much.

The University has a vested interest in keeping the money flowing, and it does. Even your most jaded administrator at ND recognizes the need to sell the sport. Yet, the harsh truth remains that our winningest coach still hasn’t exorcised the ghost that continues to plague us, and it’s not an RKG thing. It’s that his squads continually falter when the competition is slightly greater. The red flags are often covered up by possibilities that are always seemingly a year or two away from the pinnacle.

It’s a draining experience. We haven’t won a title in over 30 years, yet we’re still supposed to feel like we’re Notre Dame. THEE Notre Dame. Every diehard fan knows it, feels the fatigue of that duality of play like a champion with a mediocrity that always brings us back down to earth. Yet, cosmetics don’t win games. They don’t make coaches better or players play with more heart.

I think most fans know the deal. At least fans who have been loyal to ND beyond a couple of decades. Losing a hard fought game is one thing. Losing a must-win game in predictable fashion is like the decades-long pandemic of sitting down in ND stadium. It’s oddly sour, typically lazy, superficially beneficial to the opponent, and sadly expected.

Swarbrick can’t buy us heart and expertise when it comes to the passion and focus necessary to win like the best of them. We need a coach that can hire the guys who train our players to win on the biggest stage, and fire the ones who fail to do so. Kelly needs ultimatums and tough love. No title = No carte blanche.

Bottomline: Stop calling up the past when selling Notre Dame, and face defeat without leaning on branding. Make the necessary adjustments NOW.

 

[calvegas04]

Did anyone notice how much time Pyne had behind the line compared to Coan? Did UC change their defense when Pyne was in?

 

[IrishSteelhead]

It all boils down to one thing:


Desmond Ridder is a very good college quarterback, and runs Cincys offense almost seamlessly

Brian Kelly has been at Notre Dame for over a DECADE and has yet to have a quarterback able to even consistently run the offense, much less seamlessly

We dont need Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields. We need Desmond Ridder. This shouldnt be so damn difficult.


I digress……


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[ACamp1900]

We dont need Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields. We need Desmond Ridder. This shouldnt be so damn difficult.


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Yep,… sums it up nicely.

 

[Bluto]

It all boils down to one thing:


Desmond Ridder is a very good college quarterback, and runs Cincys offense almost seamlessly

Brian Kelly has been at Notre Dame for over a DECADE and has yet to have a quarterback able to even consistently run the offense, much less seamlessly

We dont need Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields. We need Desmond Ridder. This shouldnt be so damn difficult.


I digress……


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Desmond Ridder is not a good QB. ND lost because the offense is trash.

 

[fightingirish26]

Desmond Ridder is not a good QB. ND lost because the offense is trash.

I mean he is okay, and will be drafted bc he's a qb. But there's no way he's in a higher tier as a college qb than book was.

 

[Dale]

I’ll start with a nitpick on Freeman. I don’t think we play good situational defense. Last weeks pick sixes covered this up a bit. He needs to get better at using the change up more effectively. You simply cannot give up a 5 play 80 yard drive in 1 minute before half. And, it’s been that way before and after half on a few occasions now.

Oh, and stop dropping Foskey. He’s our best pass rusher and I counted 3 drops in pass rush situations in the first half. Let the best pass rushers, you know, rush the passer.

As others have said, Pyne should’ve started. We win if he starts. We all thought that going in. We all feel that way coming out. Very bizarre that they didn’t agree.

This OL and for the most part this offense feels really toxic. Not like they hate each other when BVG was here but very dysfunctional. Kelly continues to just gloss over how bad this OL is. And the dismissal of Pyne as starting QB going in is absurd. You lost this game because of that decision and that is your response? Crazy.

I loved BK’s halftime speech/message. But of course when it came to implementing it, they benched the QB they should’ve never started and a WR. Did any of the OL lose snaps besides Correll. STANDARDS. We have so many STANDARDS. They know all about the STANDARDS. You guys get it yet. There are STANDARDS. Apparently those standards only apply to some?

If we removed the names Quinn and Rees from the conversation and these were just random coaches on random teams. These results are not acceptable.

Kristofic and Alt both played. A not insignificant amount too. LT, LG, and RG.

 

[Bluto]

I mean he is okay, and will be drafted bc he's a qb. But there's no way he's in a higher tier as a college qb than book was.

I don’t think he gets drafted. He didn’t carve up ND and he got a major assist on some shitty safety play on some serious ducks he threw up.

 

[pumpdog20]

You’re missing the point. You’re stressing the desire for UC to want the tickets. The problem is the opportunity to even have them.

You're missing the point that both reasons are the issue.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I agree more. It's not like other teams fans aren't trying to go to the big house or other big stadiums. It's just that the fans are either not selling or only at ridiculous prices.

Our fan base is wealthier, better educated, and far more spread out than that of any other CFB blue blood. There are some advantages to that, but one of the disadvantages is that we can't produce the same sort of intimidating gameday environment that big state schools like PSU and LSU can.

It is what it is. ND's fortunes have tracked those of the average American Catholic, and we're just not as blue collar as used to be.

I think part of the problem is that our fan base just isn't as passionate as the rest of cfb. Even on this forum, their are many who just seem offended and surprised that some of us are venting and are pissed about a bad loss.....on a football forum, no less.

Not offended or surprised, just annoyed. No one here is happy with the loss, the OL struggles, the QB rotation, etc. But most of us understand that taking an emotional dump on the board every time we feel anxious about the program is really inconsiderate to those trying to have an actual conversation and learn something here.

Your histrionic posting isn't indicative of your superior 'passion" for the program. IE isn't your personal support group for emotionally fragile fans. Add something substantial to the discussion or STFU.

 

[Dale]

It all boils down to one thing:


Desmond Ridder is a very good college quarterback, and runs Cincys offense almost seamlessly

Brian Kelly has been at Notre Dame for over a DECADE and has yet to have a quarterback able to even consistently run the offense, much less seamlessly

We dont need Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields. We need Desmond Ridder. This shouldnt be so damn difficult.


I digress……


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Critique Book however you want but you cannot say Book didn’t do at least what Ridder does. We literally had better than Ridder last year.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I mean he is okay, and will be drafted bc he's a qb. But there's no way he's in a higher tier as a college qb than book was.

Nor is he better than Kizer was.

 

[fightingirish26]

I don’t think he gets drafted. He didn’t carve up ND and he got a major assist on some shitty safety play on some serious ducks he threw up.

10 qbs were taken last year. I don't see him as a successful pro but he is getting drafted for sure.

 

[Dale]

Did anyone notice how much time Pyne had behind the line compared to Coan? Did UC change their defense when Pyne was in?

They dropped 8 most of the game once they had the lead. Think Fickell knew he could win with around 21 pts if they didn’t get burned

 

[pumpdog20]

Critique Book however you want but you cannot say Book didn’t do at least what Ridder does. We literally had better than Ridder last year.

Book saved our ass many times throughout his career, and he no doubt would have won the game today.

He gets so much blame around here, and it's crap.

 

[GATTACA!]

Did anyone notice how much time Pyne had behind the line compared to Coan? Did UC change their defense when Pyne was in?

Yes it was very apparent. Makes me think the line issues aren't quite as bad as we think and much of it falls on Coan. He's gun-shy, hurt, and sensing the footsteps. He's constantly climbing waaaaay too high into the pocket and bringing the pressure onto himself prematurely. There were times later in the game when I counted to 4 or 5 one thousand when Pyne was in. He sits back in the pocket until it's the right time to step up and he also has active feet. He's sitting at the back of his drop bouncing waiting to make his move. Coan gets to the end of his drop and sits flat footed.

 

[tko]

Hard to watch Kelly continue to stick with Coan in that first half. Pyne brings an energy and a swagger much like Book. The guys rally around that. Jack Coan, great guy, could never pull off the Conor McGregor walk. This offense and team needs a fighting chance at VT, and Kelly is going to lose them if he trots Jack back out there next Saturday.

 

[Sea Turtle]

The only positive from this steaming pile is that the playoff is now out of the picture.

We won't be playing Alabama or Georgia. Georgia has given up a combined 23 points in 5 games. They would drink from our skulls.

 

[tko]

This team could end up 9-3 or 8-4 if this stubbornness to trot Coan out there continues. Pyne and Buchner have to be front and center the rest of the way. There is better energy with them and it’s so obvious.

 

[dang227]

Well, I was at the game and our section was vocal and had energy. The crowd as whole tried to get into it by the team wouldn’t let them. That early interception really quieted the crowd and between that the two turnovers inside the 17 and that’s a 17 point swing for the bad guys. Crowd tried to get hyped in the second half and I thought it was fairly loud.

It was really confusing what they are trying to do offensively. No rhythm or identity. Routes are bad. We call the game like our offensive line doesn’t suck. Tommy may be in over his head. It was all incorporated when on the last 4th down we ran playaction on 4th and 18. Why the fuck? Quit running RPO’s with Coan. It slows down our passing game. He is slow and lacks any sort of pocket presence. If Coan can’t/won’t throw deep what good is he?

I didn’t think it was possible but the offensive line looked worse in person. Absolutely no push vs a small dline. Sat a couple rows behind the bench and Quinn ripped their asses a couple times. Should have ripped his own ass. I can’t believe through a fall camp and 5 weeks we look this bad up front. We look heavy legged and fat and a few had the losers limp as the game wore on. If we can’t get a push vs. their dline we are in big trouble.

Cincy besides their QB and few DB’s looked unimposing. If they played in a Power 5 conference they would not go undefeated. Wish we had Ridder and Sauce though.

If we play mistake free and as bad as we are, this is a 10-14 pt win. Cincy simply isn’t that good.

Lewis was toast all day and the safety help over the top was late.

Really thought the team lacked energy which I find odd in a top 10 matchup.

Disappointed because I spent a shit ton on tickets but this team deserved to lose the way they played


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[InKellyWeTrust]

Well, I was at the game and our section was vocal and had energy. The crowd as whole tried to get into it by the team wouldn’t let them. That early interception really quieted the crowd and between that the two turnovers inside the 17 and that’s a 17 point swing for the bad guys. Crowd tried to get hyped in the second half and I thought it was fairly loud.

It was really confusing what they are trying to do offensively. No rhythm or identity. Routes are bad. We call the game like our offensive line doesn’t suck. Tommy may be in over his head. It was all incorporated when on the last 4th down we ran playaction on 4th and 18. Why the fuck? Quit running RPO’s with Coan. It slows down our passing game. He is slow and lacks any sort of pocket presence. If Coan can’t/won’t throw deep what good is he?

I didn’t think it was possible but the offensive line looked worse in person. Absolutely no push vs a small dline. Sat a couple rows behind the bench and Quinn ripped their asses a couple times. Should have ripped his own ass. I can’t believe through a fall camp and 5 weeks we look this bad up front. We look heavy legged and fat and a few had the losers limp as the game wore on. If we can’t get a push vs. their dline we are in big trouble.

Cincy besides their QB and few DB’s looked unimposing. If they played in a Power 5 conference they would not go undefeated. Wish we had Ridder and Sauce though.

If we play mistake free and as bad as we are, this is a 10-14 pt win. Cincy simply isn’t that good.

Lewis was toast all day and the safety help over the top was late.

Really thought the team lacked energy which I find odd in a top 10 matchup.

Disappointed because I spent a shit ton on tickets but this team deserved to lose the way they played


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You nailed it.

 

[Irish2155]

When we ran on 1st and goal from the 5 I knew Tommy had us fucked. What a bad OC.

 

[IrishLax]

It's hard to win football games, but it's especially hard to win football games when you're a flawed team AND you make mistakes.

You can't drop passes. You can't fumble kickoffs. You can't throw interceptions in the red zone. Etc. Etc. Cincinnati had three legitimate drives the entire game (one they missed a FG) and still won.

If you play Drew Pyne the whole game and don't make mistakes you probably win something like 28-17. But we didn't, and this team was never going to make the playoffs or win the playoffs, so I don't really care except for how crappy of a game that must've been to watch for the recruits.

 

[Irish2155]

Why can’t we get a damn QB? BK has missed at that position time and time again. Get a fucking QB already. It’s so frustrating seeing this team excel on so many levels but QB.

 

[NDRock]

Why can’t we get a damn QB? BK has missed at that position time and time again. Get a fucking QB already. It’s so frustrating seeing this team excel on so many levels but QB.

We’ve landed some very good prospects. The problem has been developing them. Now, we are struggling to land them. It’s very hard to convince a kid with pro aspirations to come here. Almost zero track record of putting QBs in the league.

 

[Irish2155]

We’ve landed some very good prospects. The problem has been developing them. Now, we are struggling to land them. It’s very hard to convince a kid with pro aspirations to come here. Almost zero track record of putting QBs in the league.

Wish you were wrong.

 

[texbender]

I have given up on Rees as OC; play calling/gameplan was weak
Worst scenario event with all your recruits attending
Too many, turnovers, sacks, penalties, dropped passes
4-1 is probably about right for this team at this point
D played well except 2 drives necessary...just before half and late fourth
Go with Pyne and Buchner from here, get ready for next year
Any elite QB prospect just turned the lights off of ND
Hope they get it right headed to VT

 

[Dale]

PFF Stuff: O (75 snaps)

LT Carmody 40, Alt 35
LG Correll 75
RG Madden 58, Kristofic 17.

I feel like that isn’t right. I am somewhat positive Kristofic played LG in the 1H

Gave them all mediocre run blocking grades. Gave Correll a good pass blocking grade, other 4 average and Alt bad. Meh, disagree.

Into pass details for the first time. I thought the running back chips and flares were a good safety valve but it’s almost like we shifted way too far into that direction Saturday.

Coan was 12/16 when kept clean but for only 6.8 YPA. He attempted 1 deep ball which is incredibly far cry from Wk 1 - 4. He was 2-6 with 1 sack and 1 INT when pressured.

Pyne was 9/17 when kept clean for 8.4 YPA. Under pressure he was 0/5 with a sack. 1/3 deep with the TD. 2 drops.

Austin - 54, Wilkins - 2 (hurt), Colzie - 12
Lenzy - 47, Styles - 8
Davis - 60
Mayer - 63, Takacs - 29, Evans - 7