COVID-19

NDohio

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Probably not, was the concert indoors? Guidance from the CDC:
  • If you’ve had close contact with someone who has COVID-19, you should get tested 3-5 days after your exposure, even if you don’t have symptoms. You should also wear a mask indoors in public for 14 days following exposure or until your test result is negative. You should isolate for 10 days if your test result is positive.

I don't know. One of the things that happens at all concerts is you sing along - singing has been stated as one of the very worst things that you can do from a spreader stand point. Having been exposed and then going to a concert unmasked and most likely singing makes me think they do deserve the negativity they have received.
 

tussin

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I don't know. One of the things that happens at all concerts is you sing along - singing has been stated as one of the very worst things that you can do from a spreader stand point. Having been exposed and then going to a concert unmasked and most likely singing makes me think they do deserve the negativity they have received.

Sounds like your neighbors have made their own assessment on what COVID-appropriate behavior entails.

I've made this point a million times in this thread. It is remarkable to me how risk averse this pandemic has shown the American public to be. I'm not sure if it's out of pure caution or if it is some sort of subconscious way to signal externally that one is scientifically literate, but it's a fascinating phenomena. In this instance, the concert attendees were literally acting in accordance with the official CDC guidance. It's wild how many feel entitled to express outrage when others aren't operating under their preferred set of behaviors.

Pure conjecture, but I suspect the outrage would be minimal if they attended a progressive rally instead of a Stapleton concert.
 

TorontoGold

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This is where all the chicken littles lose me and I feel the need to point out my natural immunity is far superior to their manufactured security blanket. Hysteria.

You mentioned that we don't know how many people have gotten COVID, if you're saying more people than reported have gotten it, then wouldn't the safe thing to do be to get vaxxed?

Also, I'm treated as positive for the first strain and UK variant (March/Nov 2020), yet it was no great ask to get a vaccine. Wouldn't you want to be extra sure that your protection is at it's best?
 

IrishLax

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[TWEET]https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/1431277504447356928?s=20[/TWEET]

24 hour moratorium on the "no fighting" rule. Have at it.
 

RDU Irish

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[TWEET]https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/1431277504447356928?s=20[/TWEET]

24 hour moratorium on the "no fighting" rule. Have at it.

Seriously - If anyone is bent out of shape about it they are free to stay home. Gold seats be damned.
 

Irish#1

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I agree with smokers, but there seems to be some sweeping assumptions about obese people here. Smoking comes down to a choice, and it is known by now to be a very bad one. Obesity isn't necessarily a person just shoving calories into themselves, not exerecising and sitting on the couch. Many don't choose it and struggle with it.

Doctors can't turn people away. It is a slippery slope, but I continue to have less and less sympathy for people who are railing off about not getting vaccinated, not wearing masks and Covid being
a hoax only to see these same people weeks later wind up hospitalized or dead. There is a new story every day like this, it seems.

Again, I understand completely why people are not getting the shot, where they are getting their information that is leading them to make this decision and why they're doing it even now. There is little or nothing anyone can do about it. Mandates are political suicide now because this (like everything) was politicized from the get go and they will only make people inch further away from ever getting vaccinated.

I selfishly hope that this virus doesn't get anyone that I truly care about. It has disrupted the world long enough.

I found it interesting that just recently Trump got booed at his own rally when he said he was vaccinated and encouraged everyone else to get vaccinated.
 

notredomer23

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[TWEET]https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/1431277504447356928?s=20[/TWEET]

24 hour moratorium on the "no fighting" rule. Have at it.

Not that I was too worried about any on-campus restrictions for tailgating, but glad to have the confirmation that I will be able to get absolutely annihilated in the Joyce lot for Cincy.
 

Irish#1

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Just spoke to the guy on my staff that's home due to COVID. Said the vaccination is a blessing as his symptoms aren't nearly as bad as his previous bout with COVID when he didn't have the vaccine.
 

Irishize

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I'm vax'd and believe everyone should get the vaccinations, but I have a hard time with people saying those with COVID are taking beds away from those that really need it. Hospitals are there to take care of people, regardless of the illness. Doctors take an oath to treat people and will do it. You don't turn someone away because they decided not to get vaccinated, same as you wouldn't turn away a heart attack victim because they were overweight. Hospitals are better prepared today due to what they encountered last year. They will figure out a way to help everyone.

That’s the point I was making
 

Irishize

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Dude…I’m not changing the topic…. But IMO you can’t compare diabetes and lung cancer to a deadly communicable disease that spreads like wildfire. Lol. The fact that no less than three posters used it as a comparison is interesting to me because you can’t spread lung cancer to someone else and kill them. We are having a discussion. It’s ok. As I said before I was being flippant and not serious and no I don’t want anyone to die. My sister works in an over run hospital ward in Mississippi. They are over 100% capacity and 99 % of the Covid patients are unvaccinated. I worry about her hourly. She is working tons of hours because people are quitting left and right and they have emergency traumas that can’t get into the hospital and they have people waiting 48hours to get admitted. It’s crazy. I posted all of this a week or so ago and it hasn’t improved as of today when I talked to her. Anyway I’m was trying to drill down on the moral and ethical dilemma of this and I probably typed some things I shouldn’t have or wasn’t clear in my intent. My fault. I’ll leave it here and I appreciate the back and forth.

Then you are missing the context b/c no one (at least me) is comparing COVID (which we are all well aware is contagious) to Diabetes, Cancer etc. What I AM saying is preventing COVID patients from hospital beds b/c they CHOSE not to get a vaccine would be like preventing a patient who CHOSE to abuse their bodies (via smoking, overeating/processed foods, sedentary, drinking, drug abuse, etc) from hospital care. I believe the others who responded to you meant the same thing but I don’t want to speak for them. Physicians take a Hippocratic Oath so as frustrated as they are to see a COVID patient who refused the vax or a 350-lb 23 year old who ate their way to Type II diabetes…they still have an obligation to treat them. If not, they chose the wrong career.

Many thanks & prayers to your sister. My wife & mother-in-law are both RNs dealing w/ the same issues. Their employer just doubled their hourly salary for the next two months to ensure they stay. My hope is this pandemic shows even more the value of nurses and that their pay will be reflective of that. My daughter is now in nursing school and sees the shortage at the hospital where she does clinical.
 

Irishize

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I agree with smokers, but there seems to be some sweeping assumptions about obese people here. Smoking comes down to a choice, and it is known by now to be a very bad one. Obesity isn't necessarily a person just shoving calories into themselves, not exerecising and sitting on the couch. Many don't choose it and struggle with it.

I respectfully disagree. Yes, there are some folks w/ glandular issues or retain excess weight due to side effects from drugs they are required to take but the majority of Americans who are obese to the point where they are a Type 2 diabetic (which is a CHF equivalent) have no one to blame but themselves. Yes, it’s harder for some to battle weight gain. That’s not who we’re talking about. It’s an epidemic in this country but no one speaks out about it w/ compassion for fear of being accused of “fat shaming”. This affects the poor more than anyone.

Folks who complain that the US spends more on healthcare than any other country yet rank worse than most Western countries love to claim that free healthcare for all would fix that. Regardless of what one thinks of the merits or the drawbacks of free healthcare for all, they’re delusional if they think that’s the answer b/c there’s not a pill an HCP can give a person that prevents them from being gluttonous & remaining sedentary..

Doctors can't turn people away. It is a slippery slope, but I continue to have less and less sympathy for people who are railing off about not getting vaccinated, not wearing masks and Covid being
a hoax only to see these same people weeks later wind up hospitalized or dead. There is a new story every day like this, it seems.

We agree and that’s the point I was trying to make earlier. Evidently, I did a poor job communicating it as Cackalacky claimed I was comparing a contagious virus like COVID to heart disease.
 

Rogue219

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I respectfully disagree. Yes, there are some folks w/ glandular issues or retain excess weight due to side effects from drugs they are required to take but the majority of Americans who are obese to the point where they are a Type 2 diabetic (which is a CHF equivalent) have no one to blame but themselves. Yes, it’s harder for some to battle weight gain. That’s not who we’re talking about. It’s an epidemic in this country but no one speaks out about it w/ compassion for fear of being accused of “fat shaming”. This affects the poor more than anyone.

Folks who complain that the US spends more on healthcare than any other country yet rank worse than most Western countries love to claim that free healthcare for all would fix that. Regardless of what one thinks of the merits or the drawbacks of free healthcare for all, they’re delusional if they think that’s the answer b/c there’s not a pill an HCP can give a person that prevents them from being gluttonous & remaining sedentary..



We agree and that’s the point I was trying to make earlier. Evidently, I did a poor job communicating it as Cackalacky claimed I was comparing a contagious virus like COVID to heart disease.

The majority, but not all. I have no doubt that a vast number of people have themselves to blame for being obese and having diabetes. They make poor choices at mealtime (an in between) and obviously poverty has something to do with it too, but in the end a woman who is middle aged that has had three kids and develops a thyroid issue she didn't have in her twenties isn't necessarily choosing to be big.

So it's a slippery slope.

Smokers I have zero sympathy for.
 

NDdomer2

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The majority, but not all. I have no doubt that a vast number of people have themselves to blame for being obese and having diabetes. They make poor choices at mealtime (an in between) and obviously poverty has something to do with it too, but in the end a woman who is middle aged that has had three kids and develops a thyroid issue she didn't have in her twenties isn't necessarily choosing to be big.

So it's a slippery slope.

Smokers I have zero sympathy for.

assuming she was eating a healthy diet and moderately exercising in her 20s and maintained that?

4563215.jpg
 

Irishize

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Dieting and exercising now as well. On prescribed medication, struggling nevertheless.

Thyroid is a huge challenge for women especially after childbirth and beyond. Some become hypo & some become hyper and it’s not easy to get their medicinal mix just right. I know millions of women struggle with it but that is a drop in the bucket to the millions of people who have self-induced obesity/type II diabetes. Ask your PCP how many patients they see w/ T2 Diabetes and you likely won’t have to ask the follow up question regarding how frustrating a disease it is to treat. Makes me wonder how many deaths the initial wave of COVID would have claimed had the US not had the number of diabetics we had at the onset.
 

Valpodoc85

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Obesity is a tough nut to crack. Consider this fact: most people with a disability would not change their disability for another. Say blindness for deafness. They are accommodated to it. Not so for obesity. Emerging research shows some with obesity suffer from issues with the default mode network. These are the same issues that cause problems with alcohol, tobacco, gambling and yes marijuana. Good news is new treatment modes with psychedelics are very promising. A final note. Two people are trying to quit smoking one is obese one thin. The obese individual is more likely to succeed
 

Irish#1

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Obesity is a tough nut to crack. Consider this fact: most people with a disability would not change their disability for another. Say blindness for deafness. They are accommodated to it. Not so for obesity. Emerging research shows some with obesity suffer from issues with the default mode network. These are the same issues that cause problems with alcohol, tobacco, gambling and yes marijuana. Good news is new treatment modes with psychedelics are very promising. A final note. Two people are trying to quit smoking one is obese one thin. The obese individual is more likely to succeed

I have to say I’ve really enjoyed the insight you bring to the conversation.
 

Irishize

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Obesity is a tough nut to crack. Consider this fact: most people with a disability would not change their disability for another. Say blindness for deafness. They are accommodated to it. Not so for obesity. Emerging research shows some with obesity suffer from issues with the default mode network. These are the same issues that cause problems with alcohol, tobacco, gambling and yes marijuana. Good news is new treatment modes with psychedelics are very promising. A final note. Two people are trying to quit smoking one is obese one thin. The obese individual is more likely to succeed

Interesting. Why do you think the US has had such a rapid increase in its obesity rate recently:


The US obesity prevalence was 42.4% in 2017 – 2018. From 1999 –2000 through 2017 –2018, US obesity prevalence increased from 30.5% to 42.4%. During the same time, the prevalence of severe obesity increased from 4.7% to 9.2%.Jun 7, 2021

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
 

Valpodoc85

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I don’t know. Suspect it is a reporting issue. The feds have been trying to standardize all sorts of reporting done thru health departments and local clinics. Maybe it is starting to work. Obesity is a huge problem and one of the most talked about topics by every pediatrician, it isn’t just grandma anymore. All my overweight patients want to lose weight but are frustrated with the options.
 

NDdomer2

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I don’t know. Suspect it is a reporting issue. The feds have been trying to standardize all sorts of reporting done thru health departments and local clinics. Maybe it is starting to work. Obesity is a huge problem and one of the most talked about topics by every pediatrician, it isn’t just grandma anymore. All my overweight patients want to lose weight but are frustrated with the options.

Meaning an easy way?

I find it hard to believe there aren't enough options. We've literally created procedures where we cut the size of ur stomach in half and have the ability to vacuum out fat.

Diet and exercise will always be king - but take discipline and commitment.
 

Valpodoc85

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Meaning an easy way?

I find it hard to believe there aren't enough options. We've literally created procedures where we cut the size of ur stomach in half and have the ability to vacuum out fat.

Diet and exercise will always be king - but take discipline and commitment.

No easy way about it. Ask a heroin addict why he doesn’t quit. He really wants to, in fact, he knows he’s killing himself the slow way. He’s probably tried to quit a dozen times and can’t. It’s complicated. Now realize there is a world of difference between obesity and morbid obesity. Morbid obesity are those >100% over their ideal body weight. Diet and exercise does not work for them. Recidivism is 99%. Bariatric surgery is expensive, carries real risk and has a high failure rate. Liposuction is for thin people it is not an option. High volume liposuction is dangerous as fuck
 

BleedBlueGold

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I love this discussion but it's derailing the Covid thread. Can we pick this up somewhere else so I can tell everyone how much I hate the sugar industry and big FARMa?
 

RDU Irish

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No easy way about it. Ask a heroin addict why he doesn’t quit. He really wants to, in fact, he knows he’s killing himself the slow way. He’s probably tried to quit a dozen times and can’t. It’s complicated. Now realize there is a world of difference between obesity and morbid obesity. Morbid obesity are those >100% over their ideal body weight. Diet and exercise does not work for them. Recidivism is 99%. Bariatric surgery is expensive, carries real risk and has a high failure rate. Liposuction is for thin people it is not an option. High volume liposuction is dangerous as fuck

Always appreciate your insights Valpodoc. I have heard that putting morbidly obese folks back together is sketchy AF, very common procedures can become high risk. The point that I think is being lost is unhealthy lifestyles eat up a lot of health care capacity. It is insane to even suggest we deny care to unvaccinated b/c they eat up capacity for "responsible" vaccinated folks when probably a majority of people in the hospital are arguably there b/c of bad decisions. My friend's mom just took a header down the stairs breaking half a dozen bones (neck, clavicle, ribs, arm) and lucky she didn't kill herself. Three drinks before bedtime for a 76 year old with plenty of health issues is probably dumber than not getting vaccinated but one of the costs of freedom is the ability to make dumb choices for yourself.

Claiming unvaccinated being different b/c it is contagious while using hospital capacity as the reason to mandate is some A+ level conflation, IMO.

I also think people need to prepare for a healthcare crisis - already short staffed hospitals firing unvaccinated will be compounded by those retiring/stepping away who are vaccinated. Exacerbating staffing shortages and the hostile work environment is driving people out regardless of vaccination status. Many have not recovered staffing from when they shut down last year - people with option are pulling the rip cord and getting out/staying out.
 

Rogue219

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The week after the Super Bowl was the most incredibly ill I have ever been as an adult. I didn't have all of the Covid symptoms but I had most. I missed a week of work, and I'm an American Gen Xer who was raised Catholic by Boomers, so missing that much work...I may as well have hung myself in the toilet from shame.

I am kind of hoping i had it since I am now vacciated and if what they say is true, your best bet is having had Covid and having received the vaccine.

Waiting patiently to get my children vaccinated, all of whom are under 12.

Labor Weekend is here, along with college football. Here we go...
 

BrownerandFry

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Is Florida changing its reporting in the name of science or to protect someone?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-changed-covid-19-data-141255528.html

Sarah Blaskey, Ana Claudia Chacin, Devoun Cetoute
Tue, August 31, 2021, 7:12 AM
As the delta variant spreads through Florida, data published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suggest this could be the most serious and deadly surge in COVID-19 infections since the beginning of the pandemic.

As cases ballooned in August, however, the Florida Department of Health changed the way it reported death data to the CDC, giving the appearance of a pandemic in decline, an analysis of Florida data by the Miami Herald and el Nuevo Herald found.

On Monday, Florida death data would have shown an average of 262 daily deaths reported to the CDC over the previous week had the health department used its former reporting system, the Herald analysis showed. Instead, the Monday update from Florida showed just 46 “new deaths” per day over the previous seven days.

The dramatic difference is due to a small change in the fine print. Until three weeks ago, data collected by DOH and published on the CDC website counted deaths by the date they were recorded — a common method for producing daily stats used by most states. On Aug. 10, Florida switched its methodology and, along with just a handful of other states, began to tally new deaths by the date the person died.

If you chart deaths by Florida’s new method, based on date of death, it will generally appear — even during a spike like the present — that deaths are on a recent downslope. That’s because it takes time for deaths to be evaluated and death certificates processed. When those deaths finally are tallied, they are assigned to the actual data of death — creating a spike where there once existed a downslope and moving the downslope forward in time.

Listen to today's top stories from the Miami Herald:

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Shivani Patel, a social epidemiologist and assistant professor at Emory University called the move “extremely problematic,” especially since it came without warning or explanation during a rise in cases.

Patel said Florida death data now show an “artificial decline” in recent deaths and without an explanation or context, and “it would look like we are doing better than we are.”

The change came the day after the state health department’s official Twitter account posted a series of late-night tweets accusing the CDC of publishing incorrect numbers, but offering little explanation.

“As a result of data discrepancies that have occurred, this week, FDOH worked quickly and efficiently with CDC to ensure accurate display of data on their website the same day,” DOH spokesperson Weesam Khoury told the Herald in a statement at the time. “To proactively ensure accurate data is consistently displayed, the Department will begin daily submission of a complete renewed set of case data to CDC, including retrospective COVID-19 cases.”

Florida COVID update: 18,608 more cases reported, eight new deaths, fewer in hospital

The health department did not acknowledge the subsequent change in the data structure or its abrupt onset, leaving the public scrambling for answers as more than a year’s worth of data changed from one day to the next.

“It shouldn’t be left to the public, to scientists, national policy makers or the media to guess as to what these numbers are,” Patel said. “We know from the beginning that dates matter and that they tell us different things.”

Jason Salemi, an epidemiologist at the University of South Florida who has been tracking the state’s COVID data, said reporting by date of death is better for long-term studies of the disease.

“Deaths by date of death curve is the most accurate you can get,” Salemi said. “You know exactly when people died , you know how to construct the curve and exactly when we were experiencing surges in terms of deaths.”

But Florida’s new data structure is less useful for understanding the pandemic in real time, he warned.

“When you have big surges in deaths, the deaths by date reported will always show an increase while deaths by date occurred will go down,” Salemi said.

“Someone could have died yesterday and we may not know about it for a week, or two weeks,” Salemi said. As a result, new death trends as reported by the Florida health department are significantly lower when data are first reported and don’t immediately reflect the actual number of people who died that day.

During surges of cases and deaths, averaging seven days of deaths by report date provides an important early indicator of how many people have recently died of the disease — a number that will eventually be reflected in the data by date of death, Salemi said.

Although deaths by date the person died are not currently reflecting record numbers, trends based on newly reported deaths are currently almost 31% higher than previous peaks in summer of 2020 and over the holidays, the Herald analysis showed. Of the record deaths reported to the CDC between Saturday and Monday, the Herald found that the vast majority of the 902 victims died within the past two weeks.

The Herald also found that during the last two surges the trend lines using date of death showed peaks 25% and 8% percent higher respectively than the corresponding peaks by report date.
‘Statistical sleight of hand’


The Florida health department has made several, unannounced changes to its data methodology over the span of the pandemic, abruptly switching between including and disregarding non-resident deaths in its total counts, for example. Salemi said such frequent variations make it difficult to report numbers in a consistent and transparent manner that’s easily understood by the public.

Florida hasn’t always depended on the CDC to be the exclusive publishing house for its daily numbers. Until June 4, the department published its own data, available in daily PDF reports and also provided to view and download through an online dashboard.

The downloadable data sets on cases and deaths included the report date as well as the date a person died or got sick, allowing journalists and independent researchers to select the best metric for their purposes. The daily reports showed additional cases and deaths added from one day to the next.

In June, as case numbers dropped and vaccination rates continued to rise, the health department discontinued the dashboard and changed to a weekly report. The only near-daily data was submitted by the health department to the CDC and published on the CDC Trend Tracker website.

At first, the data on the CDC website was updated in a largely predictable manner, similar to the way that the DOH had reported daily changes throughout the pandemic. Then on Aug. 10, without warning or any explanation from the health department or the CDC, the data for nearly every day of the previous year changed. Neither agency immediately explained the changes.

The CDC eventually confirmed what experts had hypothesized after comparing the new data to previous reports — that the Florida Department of Health had begun to report deaths by date of death. The change was also reflected in data about new cases, which went from being counted by date of report to “the date of specimen collection, confirmed COVID-19 laboratory test result, or clinical diagnosis,” according to the CDC website. The case data show less of a dramatic shift than death data because case data are reported more quickly than deaths.

The CDC website listed Florida as one of just 12 jurisdictions — 11 states and New York City — reporting new deaths by date of death as of the end of August. The choice of how to report is determined by each jurisdiction, according to the website.

Florida’s weekly report, published on Fridays, also shows a decline in deaths in recent weeks even as the number of total dead across the state spikes. Last Friday, the DOH report showed 389 COVID-19 deaths for the previous week. But a comparison of cumulative deaths from the report the week before showed that 1,727 additional deaths were logged by the health department over that seven-day period. The DOH chart of deaths shows a decline over the past two weeks.
2063e7902ed6d8a8824917fb61be693e
A chart of COVID-19 deaths published by the Florida Department of Health on Aug. 27, that experts say shows an “artificial decline” in deaths at the end of August due to reporting delays.
The DOH weekly report notes “death counts include individuals who meet a standardized national surveillance case definition” but includes no descriptions of how the health department presents the numbers.

“Due to inherent delays in deaths being reported to the [Health] Department, the previous 14 days may be incomplete and are updated over time,” said Khoury, the health department spokesperson, in a Aug. 30 statement to the Herald. “The Department reports deaths by date of death to the CDC upon notification to the Department.

The Florida health department does not provide that explanation on its website or anywhere in its weekly reports.

In consultation with epidemiologists the Herald continued to report additional cases and deaths added to the total each day in daily updates rather than relying on the number of “new cases” and “new deaths” DOH data attribute to the previous day. However, data still appear inconsistent, as deaths backfill in large semi-weekly batches, rather than in all weekday updates.

“The CDC has started displaying the Department’s submitted retrospective file twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays, which updates previous day deaths that were subsequently reported to the Department,” Khoury explained for the first time in Monday’s statement. The difference can be an addition of eight deaths one day, and 901 the following day, as happened in the middle of last week.

Without context about how data are reported, when recent numbers are low due to reporting lags, “people will think there’s nothing going on,” said Mary Jo Trepka, an infectious disease epidemiologist and professor at Florida International University.

Economist Tim Harford, author of “The Data Detective,” who spoke generally about how data can be manipulated, said that changes in data definitions are unlikely to have long-term negative effects on scientists, but could easily confuse or mislead the layperson.

“When numbers are presented in a flattering light, an expert will generally be able to see through the dazzle quite quickly,” Harford said. “That said, I still think the truthful-yet-deceptive framing of numbers is a serious problem.”

When data are subtly distorted or presented differently than expected — something Harford called “statistical sleight of hand” — it can prompt dangerous levels of general mistrust and cynicism, he said.

“COVID is a matter of life and death and people deserve to have information that is both accurate and understandable without having to decode it,” he said.
How serious is this third wave?


Current data from Florida also show that cases and hospitalizations are at record levels, although trends seem to have plateaued over the past week.

“What we’re seeing is an active rise in cases where we can’t keep up, an active rise in deaths that, because of using actual date of deaths, has been shifted back in time and we have no idea where we really are,” said Patel, the epidemiologist from Emory University.

This plateau, she said, might not reflect reality.

“It just looks like Florida is unable to count and report its cases fast enough,” she said.

Patel said data indicate the worst has yet to come for Florida, and it’s likely that deaths will surpass past records. But it’s still too soon to know with certainty, she said.

High levels of hospitalizations also tend to correlate with higher levels of deaths, said Dr. Aileen Marty, an infectious disease professor at FIU’s Herbert Wertheim College of Medicine.

“Ultimately, having a lot of people in the hospital at the same time decreases our overall survival,” Marty said.

The more patients there are in the hospital at the same time, the harder it is for medical staff to give quality care for those patients, Marty said. As the number of patients hospitalized keeps going up, hospitals often start running out of supplies, staff and beds she said.

“The end result is that someone who, if they were the only patient they’d survive, and now might not,” she said.

“We won’t know the true magnitude of the loss of life from this summer’s surge until the fall,” said Trepka.

While deaths are not the best indicator of how the virus is currently spreading in the community because of the lag between the time of infection and death, Salemi said looking at the surging number helps “keep our finger on the pulse” of the most serious outcomes.
 

Irish#1

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No easy way about it. Ask a heroin addict why he doesn’t quit. He really wants to, in fact, he knows he’s killing himself the slow way. He’s probably tried to quit a dozen times and can’t. It’s complicated. Now realize there is a world of difference between obesity and morbid obesity. Morbid obesity are those >100% over their ideal body weight. Diet and exercise does not work for them. Recidivism is 99%. Bariatric surgery is expensive, carries real risk and has a high failure rate. Liposuction is for thin people it is not an option. High volume liposuction is dangerous as fuck

What about the new treatments like Cryolipolysis?
 

NDdomer2

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What about the new treatments like Cryolipolysis?

ive been told by a few providers who offer Cryo that it is a completely scam. They said if you are a generally in shape individual who has some areas they would like to define it works but its generally no impact.
 
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