'17 VA DT Darnell Ewell (Notre Dame Signee)

[koonja]

Reason?

He wasn't a stud coming out of HS, didn't do anything last year, and in spring according to ISD and BGI, was over matched by both 1st and 2nd team OL.

Sometimes a 3 star is a 3 star.

 

[IrishLax]

Honestly going to be one of the sickest pulls ever if we land him and he sticks. We don't get players from that area, period. Much less a top 10 defensive lineman.

 

[JD Irish]

Tillery had a bad season (for a TRUE FRESHMAN)???

Anyway, are we the leader here? odds?

I just don't understand why this concept is so absurd. For the ridiculous hype he was given by the coaches and fans, and for the amount of playing time he received, he was absolutely underwhelming and unproductive, regardless of being a true freshman, and recapitulated by his suspension for the bowl game.

 

[Irish Man3]

I just don't understand why this concept is so absurd. For the ridiculous hype he was given by the coaches and fans, and for the amount of playing time he received, he was absolutely underwhelming and unproductive, regardless of being a true freshman, and recapitulated by his suspension for the bowl game.

Absurd is fitting. You're way off base here.

 

[koonja]

There needs to be a hidden lounge for those that want real talk about ND players and general team related things. No one's upset Tillery, as a true freshman, went unnoticed the whole year and never made a play that I saw. But if you thought he was good last year, we're watching different teams.

He was young and will grow and get stronger and maybe be a great DL for us, but last year he did nothing to impress me other than just get a lot of snaps. ND podcasts share this opinion.

 

[NDdomer2]

He wasn't a stud coming out of HS, didn't do anything last year, and in spring according to ISD and BGI, was over matched by both 1st and 2nd team OL.

Sometimes a 3 star is a 3 star.

I thought someone posted that 3 grading is someone expected to be a starter at the college level.

So if someone is expecting Bonner to make plays in his third season, I think that would fall exactly in line with the 3 rating.

As far as the "hate" on 3 players (not just pointing at you koon), there are 3 classes ranked higher than ours currently that have as many or more 3 players in their class.

Of the top 10 classes last year not one had less than 6 players of 3 rating and the average top 10 class had 9 3 players. (ND took 14 3 according to 247)

The best recruiting teams in the nation take these level kids EVERY YEAR.

 

[koonja]

I thought someone posted that 3 grading is someone expected to be a starter at the college level.

So if someone is expecting Bonner to make plays in his third season, I think that would fall exactly in line with the 3 rating.

As far as the "hate" on 3 players (not just pointing at you koon), there are 3 classes ranked higher than ours currently that have as many or more 3 players in their class.

Of the top 10 classes last year not one had less than 6 players of 3 rating and the average top 10 class had 9 3 players.

The best recruiting teams in the nation take these level kids EVERY YEAR.

They do use that as a criteria for their 3-star rankings. But I wonder how true that is. If you're on a contender, far more often than not, you can be a 3-star but you're probably never starting withing mitigating circumstances, because underclassmen 4/5 stars will come in and take your cake.

So those 3-stars they expect to start one day may start at NC State, but they're not starting at OSU/USC/LSU, etc.

 

[Irish Man3]

There needs to be a hidden lounge for those that want real talk about ND players and general team related things. No one's upset Tillery, as a true freshman, went unnoticed the whole year and never made a play that I saw. But if you thought he was good last year, we're watching different teams.

He was young and will grow and get stronger and maybe be a great DL for us, but last year he did nothing to impress me. ND podcasts share this opinion.

Any time a true freshman comes in and starts at either line, I'm impressed. Anyone that anticipated a true freshman to come in on the interior of he defensive line and shred blocks and make plays in the backfield, is delusional. There are very few players like that in the country each year and they typically don't come to ND.

He did exactly what he needed to do in year one. Being surrounded by upperclassman on the line, he wasn't going to make a bunch of plays. His job was to be an anchor in the middle of the defense. His job was to free up the experienced lineman around him, which he did.

 

[koonja]

Any time a true freshman comes in and starts at either line, I'm impressed. Anyone that anticipated a true freshman to come in on the interior of he defensive line and shred blocks and make plays in the backfield, is delusional. There are very few players like that in the country each year and they typically don't come to ND.

He did exactly what he needed to do in year one. Being surrounded by upperclassman on the line, he wasn't going to make a bunch of plays. His job was to be an anchor in the middle of the defense. His job was to free up the experienced lineman around him, which he did.

We don't have to be on one extreme or the other. I watched every snap of ND football last year at least once, and I literally never noticed him make A play. It's great that he was strong enough to take snaps, and it's not like I expected him to come in and be Ndkimneche, but when you don't stand out once and make a play all year, I'm not going to be impressed just because you took snaps.

Again, he's super young and will maybe be great, but besides being young, I saw nothing impressive last year.

 

[BobbyMac]

They do use that as a criteria for their 3-star rankings. But I wonder how true that is. If you're on a contender, far more often than not, you can be a 3-star but you're probably never starting withing mitigating circumstances, because underclassmen 4/5 stars will come in and take your cake.

So those 3-stars they expect to start one day may start at NC State, but they're not starting at OSU/USC/LSU, etc.

Happens all the time. Meet the Colts 2nd round draft pick

<iframe class="twofourseven-embed" style="max-width: 100%" frameborder="0" width="600" height="200" src="https://247sports.com/PlayerSport/TJ-Green-at-Sylacauga-Sch-49158/Embed"></iframe><script async src="https://assets.247sports.com/Scripts/Shared/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></scrip

 

[NDdomer2]

They do use that as a criteria for their 3-star rankings. But I wonder how true that is. If you're on a contender, far more often than not, you can be a 3-star but you're probably never starting withing mitigating circumstances, because underclassmen 4/5 stars will come in and take your cake.

So those 3-stars they expect to start one day may start at NC State, but they're not starting at OSU/USC/LSU, etc.

3 in OSU 2013 class (247 rated #2 class overall):
Chris Worley - played in 14/15 games in 14 season, switched positions from safety to LB and is projected starter at Sam backer in '16
Darron Lee - went on to be the 20th pick overall in this years draft
Tracey Sprinkle - projected starter at the 3tech for this coming season
Timothy Gardner - no longer on team

3 in OSU 2014 class (247 rated #3 class overall):
Malik Hooker - Projected Stater at SS, redshirted frosh year
Marcelys Jones - transfered to kentucky and has since been dismissed
Dylan Thompson - redshirted frosh year after knee injury
Brady Taylor - red shirted frosh year
Stephen Collier - red shirt frosh year - OSU site says he took considerable amount of snaps during spring drills
Darius Slade - red shirt frosh year has played in back up roll
Sean Nuernberger - starter

3 in OSU 2015 class (247 rated #7 class overall):
Josh Norwood
Grant Schmidt - not listed on roster
Robert Landers
Kevin Feder
AJ Alexander - projected second string TE
Branden Bowen - projected second string RT
Joshua Alabi
Damon Arnette - projected second string CB
Rashod Berry
DaVon Hamilton - projected second string 1tech

Projecting Ohio State's 2-deep link used for 2 deep projections

Obviously too early to tell for most part on the 15 class.

However, projecting the 4 projected 2nd stringers to be future starters isnt off base IMO. With that in mind, 21 3 kids brought in 3 classes (average of 7). of those 21 - 9 have become or are projected to become starters in their time at OSU, nearly half.

 

[NDdomer2]

I watched every snap of ND football last year at least once, and I literally never noticed him make A play.

Then while you were watching you missed 12 tackles, 2 tfl, and 1 sack. Including 4 tackles and 1 tfl against Clemson, the best team we played all year.

 

[koonja]

3 in OSU 2013 class (247 rated #2 class overall):
Chris Worley - played in 14/15 games in 14 season, switched positions from safety to LB and is projected starter at Sam backer in '16
Darron Lee - went on to be the 20th pick overall in this years draft
Tracey Sprinkle - projected starter at the 3tech for this coming season
Timothy Gardner - no longer on team

3 in OSU 2014 class (247 rated #3 class overall):
Malik Hooker - Projected Stater at SS, redshirted frosh year
Marcelys Jones - transfered to kentucky and has since been dismissed
Dylan Thompson - redshirted frosh year after knee injury
Brady Taylor - red shirted frosh year
Stephen Collier - red shirt frosh year - OSU site says he took considerable amount of snaps during spring drills
Darius Slade - red shirt frosh year has played in back up roll
Sean Nuernberger - starter

3 in OSU 2015 class (247 rated #7 class overall):
Josh Norwood
Grant Schmidt - not listed on roster
Robert Landers
Kevin Feder
AJ Alexander - projected second string TE
Branden Bowen - projected second string RT
Joshua Alabi
Damon Arnette - projected second string CB
Rashod Berry
DaVon Hamilton - projected second string 1tech

Projecting Ohio State's 2-deep link used for 2 deep projections

Obviously too early to tell for most part on the 15 class.

However, projecting the 4 projected 2nd stringers to be future starters isnt off base IMO. With that in mind, 21 3 kids brought in 3 classes (average of 7). of those 21 - 9 have become or are projected to become starters in their time at OSU, nearly half.

That's good analysis, so I'd rep you but you were too funny last night so I can't. It wouldn't surprise me if those backups you expect to find a starting role one day are surpassed by talented underclassmen because of how well OSU recruits, but thanks for posting regardless.

 

[koonja]

Then while you were watching you missed 12 tackles, 2 tfl, and 1 sack. Including 4 tackles and 1 tfl against Clemson, the best team we played all year.

Was anyone sober for that game? Honestly, 12 tackles and 2 TFLs and a sack are pretty poor for a DL that starts ~11 games. But that said, obviously he made a couple of plays, so I missed those.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

5 stars are great. No doubt about that. Some of them don't pan out though. So many factors play into these kid's development. School life, adapting to the college game, physical growth, handling pressure, injuries etc etc etc. The individual program's ability to develop the kids is what matters most. I believe ND is great in player development. Plenty of 3 stars end up stars. Josh Adams? Drew Tranquill? Both three stars and both will go down as studs when they end their career at ND. I see a lot of kids that are great football players but from lesser known schools/divisions/areas, and/or don't attend camps or other factors that get labelled 3 stars. All of this stuff is opinion. I admit I get caught up in it too, but tape is available. Make your own evaluation. Kurt Hinish is a no-brainer 4 star in my eyes, for example
GO IRISH

 

[House16]

We don't have to be on one extreme or the other. I watched every snap of ND football last year at least once, and I literally never noticed him make A play. It's great that he was strong enough to take snaps, and it's not like I expected him to come in and be Ndkimneche, but when you don't stand out once and make a play all year, I'm not going to be impressed just because you took snaps.

Again, he's super young and will maybe be great, but besides being young, I saw nothing impressive last year.

In general I agree with you, but JT had a huge play at Stanford. With the clock winding down and down six he made a 3rd and 1 stop where he just bulled over the O-lineman, powered his way into the backfield, and stopped the RB. That was a huge play to get us the ball back late in the game.

https://youtu.be/3GavD98eKy4?t=133

Happens all the time. Meet the Colts 2nd round draft pick

I know we've argued about this before but I actually pretty strongly disagree with this line of thinking. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but the rule is that 5 stars turn out better than 4 stars and 4 stars turn out better than 3 stars. Bud Elliott sums it up really well here.

Championships: for elite recruiters only | College Football 2015 Season Preview

and here

Don't deny climate change: Recruiting rankings matter | AthlonSports.com

Of course, there are exceptions to the rule. Recruiting sites often get things wrong, such as when Fuller or Studstill was rated a low 3 star. And of course there are late risers such as TJ Green. But on the aggregate, it cannot be argued that classes with more blue chips pan out better. There's a reason the good programs only take a couple of 3 stars each cycle. (Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia have taken 6 total this year).

That's why so many of us are wary when the staff takes more 3 stars than the elite programs. Certainly, on an individual case, it is totally possible that the staff sees something and that player was at the very top of their board. But is that the case for half the class, such as last year? Absolutely not. It means we're not recruiting at the level of an Alabama or Ohio State, and as such aren't in a position to win championships.

 

[NDdomer2]

That's good analysis, so I'd rep you but you were too funny last night so I can't. It wouldn't surprise me if those backups you expect to find a starting role one day are surpassed by talented underclassmen because of how well OSU recruits, but thanks for posting regardless.

Yeah I thought the same thing but they are in the two deep as sophomores. That is going to be a lot of experience gained over next few years that could be hard to beat out by an underclassmen. I don't follow OSU enough to know if Urban weighs experience over talented youth or not so I just assumed you would take the experienced player as part of this. If you remove the 15 class all together 5 of 11 in the previous two classes became starers. still on that nearly 50% rate.

I don't know how Urban's 3 hit ratio would compare to other blue blood programs either. But I would say a high 3 composite ranking does seem like that person would be a solid contributor to any program (blue blood or not) and could find themselves a potential starter.

How this all applies to Bonner, this is going to be the telling year IMO.

 

[koonja]

In general I agree with you, but JT had a huge play at Stanford. With the clock winding down and down six he made a 3rd and 1 stop where he just bulled over the O-lineman, powered his way into the backfield, and stopped the RB. That was a huge play to get us the ball back late in the game.

https://youtu.be/3GavD98eKy4?t=133



I know we've argued about this before but I actually pretty strongly disagree with this line of thinking. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but the rule is that 5 stars turn out better than 4 stars and 4 stars turn out better than 3 stars. Bud Elliott sums it up really well here.

Championships: for elite recruiters only | College Football 2015 Season Preview

and here

Don't deny climate change: Recruiting rankings matter | AthlonSports.com

Of course, there are exceptions to the rule. Recruiting sites often get things wrong, such as when Fuller or Studstill was rated a low 3 star. And of course there are late risers such as TJ Green. But on the aggregate, it cannot be argued that classes with more blue chips pan out better. There's a reason the good programs only take a couple of 3 stars each cycle. (Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia have taken 6 total this year).

That's why so many of us are wary when the staff takes more 3 stars than the elite programs. Certainly, on an individual case, it is totally possible that the staff sees something and that player was at the very top of their board. But is that the case for half the class, such as last year? Absolutely not. It means we're not recruiting at the level of an Alabama or Ohio State, and as such aren't in a position to win championships.

Yeah, I was blitzed for that game too. I was drunk the whole season now that I look back on it. I shouldn't have said 'he never made a play' since I started drinking heavily as soon as pregame came on.

 

[koonja]

Semi interesting but recent study by fox.


"Power 5 teams (of which there are 65) that consistently recruit Top 20 classes have a 60 percent chance of becoming a Top 20 program and a 35 percent chance of regularly inhabiting the Top 10.

By contrast, Power 5 teams that finish outside the Top 20 in recruiting have a lower than 18 percent chance of fielding Top 20 teams and just a 6.7 percent chance of reaching the Top 10.

Still think those recruiting rankings are meaningless?"

3 debunked recruiting myths that prove Signing Day is crucial | FOX Sports

 

[House16]

5 stars are great. No doubt about that. Some of them don't pan out though. So many factors play into these kid's development. School life, adapting to the college game, physical growth, handling pressure, injuries etc etc etc. The individual program's ability to develop the kids is what matters most. I believe ND is great in player development. Plenty of 3 stars end up stars. Josh Adams? Drew Tranquill? Both three stars and both will go down as studs when they end their career at ND. I see a lot of kids that are great football players but from lesser known schools/divisions/areas, and/or don't attend camps or other factors that get labelled 3 stars. All of this stuff is opinion. I admit I get caught up in it too, but tape is available. Make your own evaluation. Kurt Hinish is a no-brainer 4 star in my eyes, for example
GO IRISH

I agree with you that there are a million variables but that doesn't mean that categorically it's just as good to get 3 star players. And for the record, both Adams and Tranquill were composite 4 stars. And of course we should be looking at tape. Hinish could very well be a kid who the recruiting services missed on and who could be an exception to the rule, just like Studstill and Stepherson. But for every Studstill there are quite a few more Deebs and Turners and Barattis. I'm sure those are great guys, but it's no shocker that the lion's share of them didn't pan out, seeing as they were so lowly ranked.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

Less talk about OSU. More talk about ND. F$@& OSU.
GO IRISH

 

[NDdomer2]

Less talk about OSU. More talk about ND. F$@& OSU.
GO IRISH

I do feel dirty after being on their websites for so long.

 

[BobbyMac]

In general I agree with you, but JT had a huge play at Stanford. With the clock winding down and down six he made a 3rd and 1 stop where he just bulled over the O-lineman, powered his way into the backfield, and stopped the RB. That was a huge play to get us the ball back late in the game.

https://youtu.be/3GavD98eKy4?t=133



I know we've argued about this before but I actually pretty strongly disagree with this line of thinking. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but the rule is that 5 stars turn out better than 4 stars and 4 stars turn out better than 3 stars. Bud Elliott sums it up really well here.

Championships: for elite recruiters only | College Football 2015 Season Preview

and here

Don't deny climate change: Recruiting rankings matter | AthlonSports.com

Of course, there are exceptions to the rule. Recruiting sites often get things wrong, such as when Fuller or Studstill was rated a low 3 star. And of course there are late risers such as TJ Green. But on the aggregate, it cannot be argued that classes with more blue chips pan out better. There's a reason the good programs only take a couple of 3 stars each cycle. (Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia have taken 6 total this year).

That's why so many of us are wary when the staff takes more 3 stars than the elite programs. Certainly, on an individual case, it is totally possible that the staff sees something and that player was at the very top of their board. But is that the case for half the class, such as last year? Absolutely not. It means we're not recruiting at the level of an Alabama or Ohio State, and as such aren't in a position to win championships.

You're needlessly responding at length here. All I said was 3 stars start at the elite programs all the time. They also turn out to be stars all the time and the NFL is full of them. Check the Draft, every teams roster and the Pro Bowl invitees.

Does getting the more 5 stars give you a better chance of winning a college NC. You betcha.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

I agree with you that there are a million variables but that doesn't mean that categorically it's just as good to get 3 star players. And for the record, both Adams and Tranquill were composite 4 stars. And of course we should be looking at tape. Hinish could very well be a kid who the recruiting services missed on and who could be an exception to the rule, just like Studstill and Stepherson. But for every Studstill there are quite a few more Deebs and Turners and Barattis. I'm sure those are great guys, but it's no shocker that the lion's share of them didn't pan out, seeing as they were so lowly ranked.

Absolutely. I wasn't saying 3 stars are as good as 5 stars cause that's rubbish. As far as Tranquill and Adams, maybe they ended up comp. 4 stars but I remember they were 3 stars somewhere along the line like early in the process by some evaluators. You're right though, I think they did end up 4's. Regardless, my point was that rankings are opinions and some ranking make me shake my head. Drew White is a good example. Plays top competition. A leader. Great speed, great intangibles, very athletic, excellent tackler, great offer list....but a comp. 3 star. Weird....and an example of why I watch every film and make up my own mind

 

[koonja]

FYI, worth noting and to the 2016 team's credit, I did a 'most likely to start' and we're only scheduled to start I believe TWO 3-stars on this team of 22. It was Tranquill and someone else I cannot remember.

Now, the depth behind them is super young or primarily all 3-stars, but our starting lineup is talented.

 

[House16]

You're needlessly responding at length here. All I said was 3 stars start at the elite programs all the time. They also turn out to be stars all the time and the NFL is full of them. Check the Draft, every teams roster and the Pro Bowl invitees.

Does getting the more 5 stars give you a better chance of winning a college NC. You betcha.

(thumbs up emoji) glad we see eye to eye

 

[STLDomer]

5 stars are great. No doubt about that. Some of them don't pan out though. So many factors play into these kid's development. School life, adapting to the college game, physical growth, handling pressure, injuries etc etc etc. The individual program's ability to develop the kids is what matters most. I believe ND is great in player development. Plenty of 3 stars end up stars. Josh Adams? Drew Tranquill? Both three stars and both will go down as studs when they end their career at ND. I see a lot of kids that are great football players but from lesser known schools/divisions/areas, and/or don't attend camps or other factors that get labelled 3 stars. All of this stuff is opinion. I admit I get caught up in it too, but tape is available. Make your own evaluation. Kurt Hinish is a no-brainer 4 star in my eyes, for example
GO IRISH

I love Drew Tranquill almost as much as CJ Procise

 

[condoms SUCk]

Attention Mods- Cleanup on aisle Ewell. that's a cleanup on aisle Ewell.

 

[NDdomer2]

Attention Mods- Cleanup on aisle Ewall. that's a cleanup on aisle Ewall.

but what about Ewell?

 

[condoms SUCk]

but what about Ewell?

fixed