Orlando attack - terrorism suspected

[Buster Bluth]

Buster that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Doesn't mean your opinion is correct, or the people that disagree with you are idiots. It's not like we've seen a drop off lately of radical Islamic terrorism lately because Obama has decided not to call it what it is.

That logic...doesn't check out.

Also, you call out the GOP but Hilldog just said she'd use the term radical Islamism.

That's because Hillary Clinton is a Republican in everything but name. She's not only more conservative that the Republican in this race, she's the warmonger who pushed the Democrats into not only Iraq but Libya. She could be an absolute disaster as President in the foreign policy realm. Unfortunately her opponent isn't a a "could be," but a "would be."

 

[Buster Bluth]

So we shouldn't speak the truth, for fear of violent reprisal. This is called giving into terrorism.

It's called realizing what you're up against and being smarter than your opponent.

The hardliners over there want the United States to apparently declare war on Islam. Last I checked, doing what your enemy wants is usually a bad move.

I don't expect you to get that nuance, everything with you is black and white. Well, mostly white, but you get my point. Or do you?

 

[Irish YJ]

That logic...doesn't check out.



That's because Hillary Clinton is a Republican in everything but name. She's not only more conservative that the Republican in this race, she's the warmonger who pushed the Democrats into not only Iraq but Libya. She could be an absolute disaster as President in the foreign policy realm. Unfortunately her opponent isn't a a "could be," but a "would be."

 

[Woneone]

It's called realizing what you're up against and being smarter than your opponent.

The hardliners over there want the United States to apparently declare war on Islam. Last I checked, doing what your enemy wants is usually a bad move.

I don't expect you to get that nuance, everything with you is black and white. Well, mostly white, but you get my point. Or do you?

In 2015, we dropped over 20k bombs on Muslim-majority countries.

But yea, those words would probably hurt worse.

 

[GATTACA!]

Islamists slogans’ reported as man kills police officer & takes his family hostage near Paris

Days since last attack: 0

3 apparently dead. Attacker used a knife in this case. It's odd it almost seems as if these barbarians will find a way to take innocent lives no matter what weapons you try and outlaw.

Edit: Also can we get the "suspected" out of this threads title?

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Sounds like Canada needs a wall

 

[Irish YJ]

It's called realizing what you're up against and being smarter than your opponent.

The hardliners over there want the United States to apparently declare war on Islam. Last I checked, doing what your enemy wants is usually a bad move.

I don't expect you to get that nuance, everything with you is black and white. Well, mostly white, but you get my point. Or do you?

We've been nuancing the Fxxx out of this crap and I don't see a big improvement. Grey is not always the answer when fighting a black and white enemy.

 

[Irish YJ]

Sounds like Canada needs a wall

Going to make the GOP pay for it

 

[GoIrish41]

Sounds like Canada needs a wall

They are going to make us pay for it.

 

[Buster Bluth]

We've been nuancing the Fxxx out of this crap and I don't see a big improvement. Grey is not always the answer when fighting a black and white enemy.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TnEKEfkdrOU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(Not signing up for every word of what she said, but it's not exactly unknown that the motivations of terrorists are diverse and rather grey..)

 

[Irish YJ]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TnEKEfkdrOU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(Not signing up for every word of what she said, but it's not exactly unknown that the motivations of terrorists are diverse and rather grey..)

Buster, I'm sure many of the folks here on IE would sacrifice and pitch in for a plane ticket so you can go hear them out.

If anyone thinks doing nothing, or saying nothing will stop the extremist,,, well I have some ocean front property in Indiana for them.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Buster, I'm sure many of the folks here on IE would sacrifice and pitch in for a plane ticket so you can go hear them out.

Huh? Advocating for smarter policies than the ones suggested by the Party who brought us the Iraq War isn't exactly taking the position that we can talk psychopaths down.

If anyone thinks doing nothing, or saying nothing will stop the extremist,,, well I have some ocean front property in Indiana for them.

Thank you for making my argument for me.

We are at odds with radical Islam and they have to ability to easily buy formidable weapons basically anywhere in the country. If anyone thinks doing nothing, or saying nothing will stop the extremist,,, well I have some ocean front property in Indiana for them.

 

[Irish YJ]

Huh? Advocating for smarter policies than the ones suggested by the Party who brought us the Iraq War isn't exactly taking the position that we can talk psychopaths down.

dude, your the one that posted the video which says we need to hear them out. don't post stupid shit vids to make a portion of your point and then say the rest is stupid.

 

[BobbyMac]

We are at odds with radical Islam and they have to ability to easily buy formidable weapons basically anywhere in the country. If anyone thinks doing nothing, or saying nothing will stop the extremist,,, well I have some ocean front property in Indiana for them.

There's no salt in our water silly boy.

 

[Buster Bluth]

dude, your the one that posted the video which says we need to hear them out. don't post stupid shit vids to make a portion of your point and then say the rest is stupid.

Is that what happened? I seem to recall you saying we are fighting a "black and white enemy," so I posted a video that went sorta viral today which makes the general point that we are far too simplistic in our views and there is more to it than what we too often believe. In a completely different sense than Kumbaya hand holding I think you want to insinuate I suggested, it is important to listen.

Would it have been better if I posted the clips of Ron Paul telling it like it is in the 2012 debates? He said basically the same thing--that no one in politics is actually listening to the common motivations of these terrorists--albeit while advocating a far too isolationist response. Would that have made you feel better?

Don't run away from the fact that the conservative position here makes no sense. If you want to claim there's a war with radical Muslims, fucking do something about it and get the weapons that make mass murderer so easy off the god damn streets. We've gotten to hear the GOP's candidate for President advocate war crimes as a deterrent, or banning whole religions from entering the country...why don't we start with the easy ones and make it more difficult for a sympathizer to shoot up a mall?

 

[IrishSteelhead]

BEAT TEXAS

 

[GATTACA!]

Is that what happened? I seem to recall you saying we are fighting a "black and white enemy," so I posted a video that went sorta viral today which makes the general point that we are far too simplistic in our views and there is more to it than what we too often believe. In a completely different sense than Kumbaya hand holding I think you want to insinuate I suggested, it is important to listen.

Would it have been better if I posted the clips of Ron Paul telling it like it is in the 2012 debates? He said basically the same thing--that no one in politics is actually listening to the common motivations of these terrorists--albeit while advocating a far too isolationist response. Would that have made you feel better?

Don't run away from the fact that the conservative position here makes no sense. If you want to claim there's a war with radical Muslims, fucking do something about it and get the weapons that make mass murderer so easy off the god damn streets. We've gotten to hear the GOP's candidate for President advocate war crimes as a deterrent, or banning whole religions from entering the country...why don't we start with the easy ones and make it more difficult for a sympathizer to shoot up a mall?

Okay so say we outlaw guns and somehow snap our fingers and make the millions and millions of guns already in circulation disappear. What's your plan when these attacks still don't stop? What do we do when these terrorists switch to knifes like the most recent attack from just a few hours ago? How about bombs like in Boston? Do we ban pressure cookers? Should you need a permit to buy nails at a hardware store? How about box cutters and utility knifes that lead to 9/11? How many things do we need to outlaw and ban before we address the root of the problem.

Even in a fantasy world where gun laws stop criminals from acquiring arms, people intent on causing harm will find a way to terrorize. Idk what the solution to the problem is, but it sure as hell isn't to ignore the perpetrators and blame their weapons of choice.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'm pro most gun laws but not due to some reaction to our violence,... Weapons aren't the problem there imo.

 

[Irish YJ]

Is that what happened? I seem to recall you saying we are fighting a "black and white enemy," so I posted a video that went sorta viral today which makes the general point that we are far too simplistic in our views and there is more to it than what we too often believe. In a completely different sense than Kumbaya hand holding I think you want to insinuate I suggested, it is important to listen.

Would it have been better if I posted the clips of Ron Paul telling it like it is in the 2012 debates? He said basically the same thing--that no one in politics is actually listening to the common motivations of these terrorists--albeit while advocating a far too isolationist response. Would that have made you feel better?

Don't run away from the fact that the conservative position here makes no sense. If you want to claim there's a war with radical Muslims, fucking do something about it and get the weapons that make mass murderer so easy off the god damn streets. We've gotten to hear the GOP's candidate for President advocate war crimes as a deterrent, or banning whole religions from entering the country...why don't we start with the easy ones and make it more difficult for a sympathizer to shoot up a mall?

I won't claim the conservative position will solve everything, but the liberal position sure as hell doesn't.

Regarding the vid, you did post it to substantiate the greyness, but you think the other parts are crap? If so, are you not picking and choosing?

Let's not ban religions from coming into the country. how about just residents of certain countries known to harbor terrorist. that ok??

 

[drayer54]

 

[woolybug25]

Let's not ban religions from coming into the country. how about just residents of certain countries known to harbor terrorist. that ok??

I honestly don't think you would be seeing half of the backlash if the message being sent was a temporary ban of immigration from certain countries, specifically those we believe harbor terrorists. Not just going on tv minutes after a disaster, patting oneself on the back, and calling for all muslims to be banned.

My family is close friends with another family in the area who are muslim. They are from Bosnia and freaking love America. They came in legally and made our country a home during the turmoil in their own country. What message are we sending them when we tell them we are banning their faith from entering our country? That their family cannot visit them (again... Bosnia)? They don't know or interact with any radicals, but yet they have to constantly feel like the ball is going to drop on them at any moment. Simply because of what god they chose.

People want to act like it's "us vs them" and "they freaking hate us"... well, there are millions of Muslim Americans like them that don't feel any of that. But yet they are the ones lost in all of this.

 

[Irish YJ]

I honestly don't think you would be seeing half of the backlash if the message being sent was a temporary ban of immigration from certain countries, specifically those we believe harbor terrorists. Not just going on tv minutes after a disaster, patting oneself on the back, and calling for all muslims to be banned.

My family is close friends with another family in the area who are muslim. They are from Bosnia and freaking love America. They came in legally and made our country a home during the turmoil in their own country. What message are we sending them when we tell them we are banning their faith from entering our country? That their family cannot visit them (again... Bosnia)? They don't know or interact with any radicals, but yet they have to constantly feel like the ball is going to drop on them at any moment. Simply because of what god they chose.

People want to act like it's "us vs them" and "they freaking hate us"... well, there are millions of Muslim Americans like them that don't feel any of that. But yet they are the ones lost in all of this.

I agree 1000%

Edit... PS, I have family from Iran. They love the country. Their extended family still there would love to come and they want nothing to do with any of the extremist BS. They go as far to call themselves Persians instead of Iranians because they disagree with a lot that's going on. They will be the first to admit that there are a lot of US haters there too though. Sucks as it's so damn hard to distinguish. Eddie (who married my cousin Patricia) is not the most devout Muslim though (at least from my perspective). My cousin is Italian Catholic, and so are their kids.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Okay so say we outlaw guns and somehow snap our fingers and make the millions and millions of guns already in circulation disappear. What's your plan when these attacks still don't stop? What do we do when these terrorists switch to knifes like the most recent attack from just a few hours ago? How about bombs like in Boston? Do we ban pressure cookers? Should you need a permit to buy nails at a hardware store? How about box cutters and utility knifes that lead to 9/11? How many things do we need to outlaw and ban before we address the root of the problem.

Even in a fantasy world where gun laws stop criminals from acquiring arms, people intent on causing harm will find a way to terrorize. Idk what the solution to the problem is, but it sure as hell isn't to ignore the perpetrators and blame their weapons of choice.

I'll elaborate tomorrow but suffice to say I don't think anyone saying gun regulations will stop terrorist attacks, the goal is to reduce them by making mass murder require more time, money, and effort. Yeah they could build a bomb, but that's harder; they might fail and blow themselves up as they're usually amateurs. They could try to hijack a plane, but we made that a lot harder to do...why aren't we doing that now?

Right now we have a situation in which a wannabe terrorist can pretty easily acquire a rifle powerful enough to take out dozens of people. I would rather have a wannabe terrorist in Orlando have to find a cartel or gang member to get his hands on serious weaponry. Gang members aren't exactly trying to bring the wrath of the FBI, CIA, NSA, and HLS down upon them, I honestly have doubts we'd see a gigantic gun selling black market available to specifically Islamic terrorists.

But yeah, there are a ton of guns. They're also owned by people. Make buying them harder with common sense regulation.

Should we ban some guns outright? Maybe. I'm not convinced one way or the other. But if we did it's not exactly rocket science how we would get them off the streets: buy them. Cash for clunkers is now cash for semi-autos. OMG MORE SPENDING, tho.

Maybe high-powered guns should only be available to licensed clubs, and we can let the market figure out how to provide that hobby to gun enthusiasts.

There are a whole host of easy decisions to make, but for some weird reason they're apparently all off the table, and I think that's nonsense. In a weird sense, I want to see more knife attacks by terrorists. You can usually count those dead on one hand. The easy access to semi-automatic rifles makes those death counts go through the roof.

Oddly enough, in an election season I honestly wish we'd call a truce on two issues: gun control and abortion. Two issues that will never get anywhere and yet divide us and prevent us from solving the muuuuuuch bigger issues.

 

[johnnycando]

This is a joke.

This nation and its liberal beliefs makes a mockery of our 2nd amendment right and sheep argue that because they are sheep, they don't understand why the sheperds and sheep dogs have means to protect...?

Because it's their right to protect their fucking flocks.

Now everyone shut the fuck up and enjoy the rights you are given whether you take advantage of those rights or not.

Because it's your conscience at stake when the wolves growl outside your beloved ones doors and you bring a knife to a gun fight...

And I'll shoot your fucking drone down too.

 

[NorthDakota]

This is a joke.

This nation and its liberal beliefs makes a mockery of our 2nd amendment right and sheep argue that because they are sheep, they don't understand why the sheperds and sheep dogs have means to protect...?

Because it's their right to protect their fucking flocks.

Now everyone shut the fuck up and enjoy the rights you are given whether you take advantage of those rights or not.

Because it's your conscience at stake when the wolves growl outside your beloved ones doors and you bring a knife to a gun fight...

And I'll shoot your fucking drone down too.

Oh hell yes....we got a Texan here. I'm with you brother.

 

[gkIrish]

This is a joke.

This nation and its liberal beliefs makes a mockery of our 2nd amendment right and sheep argue that because they are sheep, they don't understand why the sheperds and sheep dogs have means to protect...?

Because it's their right to protect their fucking flocks.

Now everyone shut the fuck up and enjoy the rights you are given whether you take advantage of those rights or not.

Because it's your conscience at stake when the wolves growl outside your beloved ones doors and you bring a knife to a gun fight...

And I'll shoot your fucking drone down too.

 

[Irish YJ]

This is a joke.

This nation and its liberal beliefs makes a mockery of our 2nd amendment right and sheep argue that because they are sheep, they don't understand why the sheperds and sheep dogs have means to protect...?

Because it's their right to protect their fucking flocks.

Now everyone shut the fuck up and enjoy the rights you are given whether you take advantage of those rights or not.

Because it's your conscience at stake when the wolves growl outside your beloved ones doors and you bring a knife to a gun fight...

And I'll shoot your fucking drone down too.

 

[Legacy]

In solidarity

 

[GATTACA!]

This is a joke.

This nation and its liberal beliefs makes a mockery of our 2nd amendment right and sheep argue that because they are sheep, they don't understand why the sheperds and sheep dogs have means to protect...?

Because it's their right to protect their fucking flocks.

Now everyone shut the fuck up and enjoy the rights you are given whether you take advantage of those rights or not.

Because it's your conscience at stake when the wolves growl outside your beloved ones doors and you bring a knife to a gun fight...

And I'll shoot your fucking drone down too.

 

[NorthDakota]

In solidarity