2016 Presidential Horse Race

[Legacy]

As I wrote earlier in this thread:



That said, I don't think Trump is a racist. The problem with this particular judge, if there is any, is not that he is Mexican as such, but that he seems to be some sort of Mexican nationalist, a member of race-based Mexican nationalist organizations, etc. Again, liberals make these sort of points all the time about white people- they think that all-white juries are bad. They think that Sotomayor will make better decisions because she is a "wise Latina." Etc. The rules about what constitutes racism change as needed for liberals.

In case these were not posted,

Hispanic Official to Leave RNC in Sign of Disaffection With Donald Trump

CNN's Ana Navarro tears into Trump over criticism of Mexican-American judge

Republican strategist and CNN contributor Ana Navarro excoriated Donald Trump on Friday for attacking a judge with Mexican heritage who is presiding over a lawsuit against Trump University.

"It is highly offensive as a Hispanic. What he is doing is wagging the dog," Navarro told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on "The Situation Room." "How dare he. How dare he question a judge's responsibility, a judge's adherence to the Constitution, because he is of Mexican descent? This man was born in East Chicago. He is an American citizen. He is just as American as Donald Trump."

She continued: "Mexican-Americans bleed, just as any other American, when they go to war. They bled just as any other American on 9/11. They fight for America. They are Americans. And what he is doing is disgusting. I am livid about it, and if this is his strategy to win over Hispanics, he's got a hell of a wake-up call coming to him come November."

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Good run, Bernie. I was hoping for a little magic yesterday. Not in the sense of surpassing HRC in pledged delegates, but just getting more victories. Didn't happen. Onward to the convention.

For the record, I personally feel like, short of an indictment, the Supers are going to stick with HRC as she won the popular vote. Bernie's argument is absolutely valid though, as been discussed earlier in this thread. In the end, the Democratic Establishment is going to roll the dice with HRC and the possibility of her losing to Trump. It will be interesting to say the least.

 

[Irish#1]

Good run, Bernie. I was hoping for a little magic yesterday. Not in the sense of surpassing HRC in pledged delegates, but just getting more victories. Didn't happen. Onward to the convention.

For the record, I personally feel like, short of an indictment, the Supers are going to stick with HRC as she won the popular vote. Bernie's argument is absolutely valid though, as been discussed earlier in this thread. In the end, the Democratic Establishment is going to roll the dice with HRC and the possibility of her losing to Trump. It will be interesting to say the least.

No other real options. It will be interesting to see if Bernie decides to run as an independent. Not sure if he could win, but it would probably hurt Clinton more than Trump.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Here's an article arguing that Hillary Clinton's Democrats will be tomorrow's Republicans:

Bernie Sanders Stays As Defiant As Ever
The Transcript Of Bernie Sanders’ California Speech Is A Rousing & Defiant Call To Action

Bernie:

All of you know, all of you know, that when we began this campaign a little over a year ago we were considered to be a fringe campaign. But over the last year, I think that has changed, just a little bit. By the end of tonight, we’ll have won, I believe 22 state primaries and caucuses. We will have received well over 10 million votes. And what is most extraordinary to me is that in virtually every single state, we have won in big numbers, the votes of young people. Young people understand that they are the future of America, and they intend to help shape that future. And I am enormously optimistic about the future of our country when so many young people have come on board and understand that our vision, a vision of social justice, economic justice, racial justice, and environmental justice, must be the future of America. Our vision will be the future of America.

I completely agree with the article Whiskey posted. I think both parties are going to see a major transformation in the coming years. Anyone's guess how they look when the dust settles.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

No other real options. It will be interesting to see if Bernie decides to run as an independent. Not sure if he could win, but it would probably hurt Clinton more than Trump.

I've wondered myself, but I doubt he will. He does NOT want Trump to win. Running as a third party candidate would pretty much ensure a Trump victory.

The Supers do have a choice, it's one between their ultimate goal in putting a D in the White House versus supporting what the Democratic voters wanted. Bernie is the stronger candidate to beat Trump. But the electorate chose Hillary. Decisions, decisions. I personally think they'll stick with her unless she's indicted soon.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

That said, I don't think Trump is a racist. .

Haha, ha, ha, ha, ha

ha

ha

ha

lmao.

 

[dales5050]

I've wondered myself, but I doubt he will. He does NOT want Trump to win. Running as a third party candidate would pretty much ensure a Trump victory.

If Sanders falls in line behind Clinton I think that most everything gained in his campaign would be lost and I am not sure he is willing to give that up. Hasn't he said his campaign was bigger than him?

While Clinton would like him to do what she wants, Sanders still has a lot of down ticket power and continuing with his campaign could keep those wins possible. Even if he would never personally win.

His 'win' would be creating the 3rd party..which would be supported by the 40% of voters who align as being independent. His 'win' could be putting some of his ideas into play in Congress...similar to how quickly the Tea Party injected their ideas in.

Beyond this, I am not 100% sold on the idea that Sanders running as a 3rd line would ensure Trump winning. That's because we would need to consider Tump doing something or having something happen to his campaign that would make those right of center not want to vote for him.

If faced with the choice of not being able to vote for Trump and having to pick between Sanders and Clinton...I think most, if not all, Trump voters would pick Sanders. I don't think people are accurately projecting how disliked Clinton is.

So you take those two things and mash them together...it could be reason enough for Sanders to stay in. It's not like Trump is getting any better at the game of politics. It's not like he is learning how to stay away from controversy. He is very much flying close to the sun.


It would be a bet the house type idea but why not?

 

[EddytoNow]

It's time to hang it up, Bernie. Make your peace with Hillary and help defeat Trump in November. Hillary has not only accumulated the necessary delegates by the rules established before the primaries began, she has won the popular vote. You have no reasonable path to the nomination. You ran as a Democrat, not as an Independent. Now it's time to unite behind the party's choice. Defeating Trump is the most important cause you should be fighting for over the next few months.

 

[IrishLion]

You guys think Bill is already apologizing for all of the dumb things he's going to do in the White House... again?

 

[GoIrish41]

Nobody is a bigger Bernie guy than me, and he was done since Super Tuesday. He keeps pushing for concessions toward his positions and if Hillary wants to bring in his supporters in the fold immediately she will move that way. I am not ruling out Bernie as her VP choice, which would instantaneously unify the party and put Trump way behind the 8 ball. That said, the bulk of Bernie supporters will eventually fall in line behind Hillary either way if for no other reason than to ensure a moronic bigot does not become president.

 

[connor_in]

Nobody is a bigger Bernie guy than me, and he was done since Super Tuesday. He keeps pushing for concessions toward his positions and if Hillary wants to bring in his supporters in the fold immediately she will move that way. I am not ruling out Bernie as her VP choice, which would instantaneously unify the party and put Trump way behind the 8 ball. That said, the bulk of Bernie supporters will eventually fall in line behind Hillary either way if for no other reason than to ensure a moronic bigot does not become president.

1) The ONLY reason I think Bernie would ally with HRC as her VP candidate is to stop Trump.
2) That said, would he definitely do it? My guess is only with MAJOR concessions to his views.
3) Would Sanders' followers really turn out for HRC on election day? You and other D's on here have consistently said that Bernie supporters will fall in line behind HRC like there is absolutely no doubt that they will. This is even after seeing the still large amounts of R's that refuse to or are at least non-committal towards Trump. Just reading and listening to the news (from across the media spectrum political leaning wise), there seems to be a visceral dislike of most things HRC related coming from Bernie people. Basically, it comes down to would they really go to her w/out Bernie as VP? Even if given VP, would they feel any betrayal towards him for going HRC? Would they be anywhere near as fervent for her as they are for him and thus turn out in the numbers she would need? Bernie is running as an outsider and is getting a lot of support that thinks that the system and the status quo are the problem. That is a lot of support that Trump gets too and if HRC is anything, she is pro-establishment system/pro-status quo. I am not saying Trump gets any kind of significant support rolling over to him, but he could get some of it (those that are anti-system and not pro-socialism). That mixed with some not showing for HRC as they view her type as the problem.

Just my own thoughts on the matter.


Bill 'n Opus 2016

 

[wizards8507]

Nobody is a bigger Bernie guy than me, and he was done since Super Tuesday. He keeps pushing for concessions toward his positions and if Hillary wants to bring in his supporters in the fold immediately she will move that way. I am not ruling out Bernie as her VP choice, which would instantaneously unify the party and put Trump way behind the 8 ball. That said, the bulk of Bernie supporters will eventually fall in line behind Hillary either way if for no other reason than to ensure a moronic bigot does not become president.

Bernie is like 1,000 years old. It makes zero sense to nominate a VP that has zero political viability for future office.

 

[connor_in]

Bernie is like 1,000 years old. It makes zero sense to nominate a VP that has zero political viability for future office.

While that seems to make sense and has been the strategy a lot in the past (along with picking someone popular from a battleground state), I don't think Cheney or Biden were generally considered very viable. I think Joe only seems viable now because he is mainstream establishment and HRC may potentially be indicted.

 

[yankeehater]

Judge in Trump U case has ties to La Raza group. Not sure if this has been noted, but it has been blowing up out here in Cali radio shows. I have heard of several calls to have him removed for being biased. The group also has a link on their site to help fund and provide aid to those trying to enter the Country illegally. Not sure how a judge can uphold the law when he is helping people break it to get here.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...araza/&usg=AFQjCNHJn5bqmH5XNFkmGgY_1rJZ4o2BDA

 

[yankeehater]

Serious question. The law group also are large contributors to the Democrat party and the Clintons. I would think we would have rules to not allow any judge or group associated to be able to contribute to any candidate or party. Seems like that would show bias in one direction or another.

 

[IrishLax]

Judge in Trump U case has ties to La Raza group. Not sure if this has been noted, but it has been blowing up out here in Cali radio shows. I have heard of several calls to have him removed for being biased. The group also has a link on their site to help fund and provide aid to those trying to enter the Country illegally. Not sure how a judge can uphold the law when he is helping people break it to get here.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...araza/&usg=AFQjCNHJn5bqmH5XNFkmGgY_1rJZ4o2BDA

Lol so maybe Trump is right about not getting a fair shake from this particular judge given all of the obvious conflicts of interest there...

 

[woolybug25]

Judge in Trump U case has ties to La Raza group. Not sure if this has been noted, but it has been blowing up out here in Cali radio shows. I have heard of several calls to have him removed for being biased. The group also has a link on their site to help fund and provide aid to those trying to enter the Country illegally. Not sure how a judge can uphold the law when he is helping people break it to get here.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...araza/&usg=AFQjCNHJn5bqmH5XNFkmGgY_1rJZ4o2BDA

Are you really linking WND? Their front page has a main article claiming Hillary is going to drop out as early as tomorrow and that there is a ClintonU. That site isn't journalism. Pretty much a joke of a site.

 

[wizards8507]

Lol so maybe Trump is right about not getting a fair shake from this particular judge given all of the obvious conflicts of interest there...

And when Trump pointed that out, he was called a racist by Hillary Clinton, Jake Tapper, and Paul Ryan, among others. It's disgusting.

Are you really linking WND? Their front page has a main article claiming Hillary is going to drop out as early as tomorrow and that there is a ClintonU. That site isn't journalism. Pretty much a joke of a site.

1. People link to HuffPo in this thread all the time.

2. Just because it's a biased source doesn't mean it's inaccurate. This judge is a racialist, plain and simple.

 

[irishfan]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_uXJ1mgkyF0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#buildthephysicalbarrier

 

[zelezo vlk]

Even if Trump were right, wouldn't he be right for the wrong reasons?

Also, my phone autocorrects Trump to Grump. Funny stuff.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[dales5050]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_uXJ1mgkyF0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#buildthephysicalbarrier

That's the old Hillary. The new Hillary is different. Didn't you know. She is like the new iPhone....

 

[yankeehater]

Are you really linking WND? Their front page has a main article claiming Hillary is going to drop out as early as tomorrow and that there is a ClintonU. That site isn't journalism. Pretty much a joke of a site.

There are several other articles you can find as well....there is no denying this a fact. There was one maybe I should have used that has the screen shot with the judges name on the front page of the group webiste. On the bottom of the local LA Raza, which stands for the "The Race," site is the link in support of helping illegal immigration.

 

[woolybug25]

Also, La Raza is the largest Latin-American Advocacy group on the planet. They have members in every major company in the country. It's like being a member of an african american advocacy group. Even Sonia Sotomayor was a former member. Should she not be able to be part of race cases in the Supreme Court? Should Clarence Thomas not be able to be part of rulings for Affirmative Action because of his membership to multiple African American organizations?

 

[yankeehater]

Also, La Raza is the largest Latin-American Advocacy group on the planet. They have members in every major company in the country. It's like being a member of an african american advocacy group. Even Sonia Sotomayor was a former member. Should she not be able to be part of race cases in the Supreme Court? Should Clarence Thomas not be able to be part of rulings for Affirmative Action because of his membership to multiple African American organizations?

Let me pose this question. What would be the outcry if this were a white judge that was affiliated with a group that is open about their race being superior than others which La Raza advocates? Is that not the definition of racism?

 

[woolybug25]

There are several other articles you can find as well....there is no denying this a fact. There was one maybe I should have used that has the screen shot with the judges name on the front page of the group webiste. On the bottom of the local LA Raza, which stands for the "The Race," site is the link in support of helping illegal immigration.

Then use a reputable source if it's so easy to find. I certainly didn't see one that is twisting it in the way that WND did. They are as reputable as The Onion, and in my opinion, shouldn't be used as a reference without a disclaimer.

Go look up La Raza. You have drastically twisted what they are as an organization. They aren't trying to help illegal immigrants break the law as a rule of their organization. Members of their organization helped an illegal immigrant. That's like saying any member of any organization is culpable for every single members action. It's laughable.

Again... Go look at any prominent Latino community within any major organization, and you will find La Raza members. It's a national Latino organization. In fact... Trump's own supporter is a member.

Guess Which Prominent Fox News Contributor and Trump Backer is ALSO a Member of "La Raza"! | RedState

 

[woolybug25]

Let me pose this question. What would be the outcry if this were a white judge that was affiliated with a group that is open about their race being superior than others which La Raza advocates? Is that not the definition of racism?

Where do they advocate for being a superior race? Because it roughly translates to "the race"? How is that saying their race is better. It doesn't translate to "the superior race". You are making that judgement without any actual knowledge of the organization or their values. That is certainly not what they advocate in their media outlets and they aren't any different than any other minority advocacy group.

Here is what they say about their name:

What does the term “La Raza” mean?

The term “La Raza” has its origins in early 20th century Latin American literature and translates into English most closely as “the people” or, according to some scholars, “the Hispanic people of the New World.” The term was coined by Mexican scholar José Vasconcelos to reflect the fact that the people of Latin America are a mixture of many of the world’s races, cultures, and religions. The full term coined by Vasconcelos, “la raza cósmica,” meaning “the cosmic people,” reflects an expansive, inclusive view of the mixture inherent in Hispanics and that Hispanics share a common heritage and destiny with all other people of the world.
FAQs about NCLR

Sounds like a bunch of racists, eh?

This is Trump's people trying to twist this for his personal gain. Plain and simple.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Bernie is like 1,000 years old. It makes zero sense to nominate a VP that has zero political viability for future office.

The last two weren't exactly young pups.

 

[wizards8507]

The last two weren't exactly young pups.

Dick Cheney looked older than he was. He was inaugurated for the first term just before his 60th birthday. Joe Biden was 66, and he was the 6th oldest VP to ever be inaugurated. Bernie Sanders is older than Joe Biden, eight years after Biden took office. He'd be the oldest VP of all time and it wouldn't be particularly close.

 

[GoIrish41]

Judge in Trump U case has ties to La Raza group. Not sure if this has been noted, but it has been blowing up out here in Cali radio shows. I have heard of several calls to have him removed for being biased. The group also has a link on their site to help fund and provide aid to those trying to enter the Country illegally. Not sure how a judge can uphold the law when he is helping people break it to get here.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...araza/&usg=AFQjCNHJn5bqmH5XNFkmGgY_1rJZ4o2BDA

LA RAZA MISSION STATEMENT

The National Council of La Raza (NCLR)—the largest national Hispanic civil rights and advocacy organization in the United States—works to improve opportunities for Hispanic Americans. Through its network of nearly 300 affiliated community-based organizations, NCLR reaches millions of Hispanics each year in 41 states, Puerto Rico, and the District of Columbia. To achieve its mission, NCLR conducts applied research, policy analysis, and advocacy, providing a Latino perspective in five key areas—assets/investments, civil rights/immigration, education, employment and economic status, and health. In addition, it provides capacity-building assistance to its Affiliates who work at the state and local level to advance opportunities for individuals and families.

Founded in 1968, NCLR is a private, nonprofit, nonpartisan, tax-exempt organization headquartered in Washington, DC, serving all Hispanic subgroups in all regions of the country. It has state and regional offices in Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Phoenix, and San Antonio.

 

[GoIrish41]

Dick Cheney looked older than he was. He was inaugurated for the first term just before his 60th birthday. Joe Biden was 66, and he was the 6th oldest VP to ever be inaugurated. Bernie Sanders is older than Joe Biden, eight years after Biden took office. He'd be the oldest VP of all time and it wouldn't be particularly close.

Dick Cheney had multiple major heart attacks before being inaugurated the first time.