[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

[wizards8507]

I may be misremembering facts, but if all the following are true, the NFL could suspend him:

1) Equipment guy takes the balls into the bathroom, which violates NFL rules.
2) Said equipment guy calls Brady "the Deflator" in text messages
3) Brady refused to cooperate by not providing his phone

Really only #3 needs to be true to permit the suspension. Whether the balls were deflated or not is immaterial. Whether there was any evidence on his phone is immaterial. It's just the fact that he didn't cooperate.

Yes, you're misremembering facts.

1. True, but the penalty for equipment violations is a fine. That's a SPECIFIED fact in the CBA, even if everything else you say is true.

2. Nobody called Brady the Deflator. Somebody called the equipment guy the Deflator. However, deflating is not necessarily illegal. If a ball was inflated to 13.5 PSI, you can be the "Deflator" and still be well within the rules. Deflating is not, in itself, wrong. Only if you deflate to a PSI below 12.5 does it become an equipment violation (and thus subject to a fine). Reports of games prior to this indicate that officials were indiscriminately inflating balls ABOVE the specified PSI range. Thus, being the "deflator" is actually righting an existing wrong, not creating a new one.

3. Nothing in the CBA says a player's personal electronic devices are subject to league investigations.

 

[NDdomer2]

Okay, I never said it was a flawless analogy. But a better example would be Wooly smashing his own phone. There's nothing in the CBA that says players can't destroy their personal electronic devices. That's completely outside the scope of the agreement.

I am sure there is no verbiage that reads specifically to these items. But isn't that where the league got creative and went all "conduct detrimental to the league"?

Ultimately I agree with wooly on, Brady and the players signed off on the agreement. And the agreements vague wording in some of these areas covers the semantics.

I have no care in the world how this ends up really and should be interesting to following for another year (dont think im crazy).

 

[wizards8507]

Serious question. What has the NFL administration ever done where they've earned the benefit of the doubt on any disciplinary issue? The default assumption should be that the NFL is incompetent and corrupt unless proven otherwise.

 

[ACamp1900]

Serious question. What has the NFL administration ever done where they've earned the benefit of the doubt on any disciplinary issue? The default assumption should be that the NFL is incompetent and corrupt unless proven otherwise.

Serious answer, suspending Brady.

 

[gkIrish]

Yes, you're misremembering facts.

1. True, but the penalty for equipment violations is a fine. That's a SPECIFIED fact in the CBA, even if everything else you say is true.

2. Nobody called Brady the Deflator. Somebody called the equipment guy the Deflator. However, deflating is not necessarily illegal. If a ball was inflated to 13.5 PSI, you can be the "Deflator" and still be well within the rules. Deflating is not, in itself, wrong. Only if you deflate to a PSI below 12.5 does it become an equipment violation (and thus subject to a fine). Reports of games prior to this indicate that officials were indiscriminately inflating balls ABOVE the specified PSI range. Thus, being the "deflator" is actually righting an existing wrong, not creating a new one.

3. Nothing in the CBA says a player's personal electronic devices are subject to league investigations.

1) The NFL was investigating whether balls were in fact deflated below the appropriate level. Even if they turned out to be at a legal inflation level, it doesn't mean the NFL had no right to initiate the investigation.

2) At worst, the evidence was unclear about who was the Deflator and what Brady might have known or instructed someone to do. That was the point of the investigation.

3) I would not think the CBA outlines every specific item that is subject to investigation. The Commissioner has a lot of latitude.

 

[NorthDakota]

Serious question. What has the NFL administration ever done where they've earned the benefit of the doubt on any disciplinary issue? The default assumption should be that the NFL is incompetent and corrupt unless proven otherwise.

Serious answer, suspending Brady.

ACamp is right. Honestly, the Pats are lucky the league didn't make them forfeit the game.

 

[ACamp1900]

ACamp is right. Honestly, the Pats are lucky the league didn't make them forfeit the game.

I often wonder, for the ND pats fans, is it difficult knowing your pro team is basically the NFL version of the 2005 Trojans?

 

[irishfan]

Tampering with a football is hardly an equipment violation. Not wearing the proper socks or crap like that would seem to be an equipment violation.

Using Stickum is a fine. That's the closest thing to compare it to IMO. Goodell said it was the equivalent of PED use.

 

[wizards8507]

I often wonder, for the ND pats fans, is it difficult knowing your pro team is basically the NFL version of the 2005 Trojans?

Give me a break. ALL of the Patriots hate is built by 1) jealousy and 2) journalistic malpractice (looking at you, Worldwide Leader) in the Spygate and Deflategate incidents.

 

[wizards8507]

Using Stickum is a fine. That's the closest thing to compare it to IMO. Goodell said it was the equivalent of PED use.

Which would be a two-game suspension. So he acted as if it was twice as bad as PED use.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

ACamp is right. Honestly, the Pats are lucky the league didn't make them forfeit the game.

Should the Colts have forfeited for having 3 of 4 balls test below the legal level?

 

[irishfan]

ACamp is right. Honestly, the Pats are lucky the league didn't make them forfeit the game.

I think the Colts are luckier. Seattle/Indy would not have been pretty.

 

[ACamp1900]

Give me a break. ALL of the Patriots hate is built by 1) jealousy and 2) journalistic malpractice (looking at you, Worldwide Leader) in the Spygate and Deflategate incidents.

Give me a break. ALL of the Patriots hate is built by the fact that they are a bunch of pretentious d bags who consistently cheat... Oh and their fans are typical Boston fans, there is that too.

Fixed it for you anyway.

 

[NorthDakota]

Give me a break. ALL of the Patriots hate is built by 1) jealousy and 2) journalistic malpractice (looking at you, Worldwide Leader) in the Spygate and Deflategate incidents.

I have nothing to be jealous of. The Steelers have won 2 clean super bowls in the last 11 years. The Patriots have won 4 tarnished super bowls in the last 15?

I think the Colts are luckier. Seattle/Indy would not have been pretty.

Probably the case.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I have nothing to be jealous of. The Steelers have won 2 clean super bowls in the last 11 years. The Patriots have won 4 tarnished super bowls in the last 15?

Big Ben as QB =/= "clean"

 

[wizards8507]

Last post from me on this.

1) The NFL had a systematic disregard of the PSI of footballs prior to this game. Officials would do a "squeeze test" before kickoff like they were drunk undergrads honking a boob at 1am on Friday night in Dillon Hall. They'd then indiscriminately add or remove air based on this entirely subjective test.

2) Tom Brady preferred his footballs at the low end of the allowable range, so he instructed his equipment people to keep the balls at 12.5.

3) Scientific tests both outside of and within the Wells Report indicated that the PSI of the footballs in this game were in line with where they'd be per the ideal gas law.

4) Two different pressure gauges were used to test the footballs. The official said he remembered using a gauge that would indicated that there was nothing untoward whatsoever about the balls. Wells deliberately ignored this official's testimony and based his report on the gauge that indicated more egregious deflation.

5) Chris Mortensen reported inaccurate information that biased the press and the public against the Patriots before any facts were actually known.

 

[NorthDakota]

Big Ben as QB =/= "clean"

I feel sorry for you. I'd be bitter too if I was stuck with Cutler at QB.

 

[ACamp1900]

Look everyone, we finally found something that will make wizards take a stance AGAINST espn... his Gerber man crush with a male fashion model who cheats at football in his down time......

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I feel sorry for you. I'd be bitter too if I was stuck with Cutler at QB.

Heh. I'll get by. Don't you worry about me.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Heh. I'll get by. Don't you worry about me.

I'm sure he feels sorry for the fans of every other team as well that can't stand Brady/Pats and their cheating ways.

 

[NorthDakota]

Heh. I'll get by. Don't you worry about me.

I'm sure he feels sorry for the fans of every other team as well that can't stand Brady/Pats and their cheating ways.

We are all in this together. Except for the New England fans.

 

[wizards8507]

Look everyone, we finally found something that will make wizards take a stance AGAINST espn... his Gerber man crush with a male fashion model who cheats at football in his down time......

I take loads of stances against ESPN. Ask me about Caitlyn Jenner or The Undefeated or the NHL or Curt Schilling or...

 

[IrishJayhawk]

We are all in this together. Except for the New England fans.

I'm not a New England fan. I'm just trying to be objective. I don't see that the NFL has a leg to stand on here. There's no solid evidence that the Pats' footballs were any different than the Colts'. So you're arguing a suspension based on Brady's cooperation or lack thereof. That doesn't taint the games (or make them "tarnished," to use NorthDakota's term). It might make you dislike Brady more, but it doesn't give credence to the original charges.

 

[ACamp1900]

I take loads of stances against ESPN. Ask me about Caitlyn Jenner or The Undefeated or the NHL or Curt Schilling or...

Notice he didn't argue the point of having a Gerber man crush on a male fashion model that cheats at football in his down time..........

 

[woolybug25]

I feel sorry for you. I'd be bitter too if I was stuck with Cutler at QB.

I would be bitter if my QB was a rapist.

 

[Irish#1]

I take loads of stances against ESPN. Ask me about Caitlyn Jenner or The Undefeated or the NHL or Curt Schilling or...

Good thing ESPN doesn't monitor this forum. Otherwise you might be joining the ranks of those recently canned.

The bottom line if this. This was heard and Brady lost. I don't know what the percentages are, but I think those that appeal usually don't win the second time around either.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

I am sure there is no verbiage that reads specifically to these items. But isn't that where the league got creative and went all "conduct detrimental to the league"?

Ultimately I agree with wooly on, Brady and the players signed off on the agreement. And the agreements vague wording in some of these areas covers the semantics.

I have no care in the world how this ends up really and should be interesting to following for another year (dont think im crazy).

I'd argue the NFL's conduct has been more detrimental to the league than anything Brady has been alleged to have done. The most off-putting thing about the NFL, for me, is the NFL and the commissioner.

 

[NorthDakota]

I would be bitter if my QB was a rapist.

Alleged rapist....he's good enough to cover his tracks in a legal sense.

 

[Bubbles]

He cheated. Everyone not eating their Gerber with a Patriots bib came to accept that long ago...

This guy speaks for everyone. /thread

 

[ACamp1900]

Alleged rapist....he's good enough to cover his tracks in a legal sense.