Game of Thrones

[gkIrish]

Well we don't really know that it didn't happen in the books.

Doesn't it?

Not as far as we know. Ramsay sent Theon's father some other body part in the books (a finger?). I suppose it may have happened but it has not explicitly been mentioned.

 

[wizards8507]

Not as far as we know. Ramsay sent Theon's father some other body part in the books (a finger?). I suppose it may have happened but it has not explicitly been mentioned.

It happened.

Ramsay rose, the firelight shining on his face. "Reek, get over here. Get her ready for me."

For a moment he did not understand. "I ... do you mean ... m'lord, I have no ... I ..."

"With your mouth," Lord Ramsay said. "And be quick about it. If she's not wet by the time I'm done disrobing, I will cut off that tongue of yours and nail it to the wall."

 

[gkIrish]

It happened.

Hmm I guess I completely missed that. My bad! I'm pretty sure that a different body part was sent to his father so maybe that's where I got confused.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

While I think it's kinda funny debating how realistic the hypothermia risks are in a show based in a mythical world with dragons, I will play.

I think it's reasonable to expect the show to avoid the impossible despite being cast in a fantastical realm where dragons exist. You can construct a world with dragons, direwolves, warg'ing, etc. but they better live in the world of physics and use the other side of the veil to explain the rest.

You can invoke magic to stay warm but if you don't, you're body should still be subject to the natural forces.

Which is why all of the things mentioned are poorly conceived:

• 300lb ex-linemen going down when a 115 lb girl stabs him once in the back with a 7 - 9 inch blade
• Soldiers carrying shields but choosing not to use them in combat
• Jaime not turning back around to Dorne

I assumed they'd withstand hypothermia because of adrenaline, so that didn't bother me. I found Brienne's placement possible even if improbable. We know she was stationed outside the Bolton's camp, waiting to rescue Sansa. It is a vast forest but sometimes the gods smile upon a character (lucky).


Did Melisandre sacrifice herself to bring Jon back? Will she rapidly age to her death without the band of light around her neck? Or was she just resting?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Well we don't really know that it didn't happen in the books.

Doesn't it?

Not as far as we know. Ramsay sent Theon's father some other body part in the books (a finger?). I suppose it may have happened but it has not explicitly been mentioned.

It's strongly implied that Ramsay castrated Theon in Chapter 39 of ADWD.

Edit: wizards beat me to it.

 

[IrishLion]

I've seen a lot of uproar about Melisandre and the necklace, and how she wasn't wearing it in the tub in season 4.

Isn't the simple answer that the necklace has nothing to do with the glamour that she wears? The necklace is for protecting from poison, right?

 

[IrishLion]

300lb ex-linemen going down when a 115 lb girl stabs him once in the back with a 7 - 9 inch blade

She severed the spine?

Soldiers carrying shields but choosing not to use them in combat

They were taken by surprise and engaged before they could bother to get their shields ready?

Jaime not turning back around to Dorne

Was he on a Lannister boat, or a boat from Dorne? I didn't pay attention to the sails, but if Dorne is sending him back, no way they turn around to let him get revenge.


^Devil's advocate, I generally had the same questions lol.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

• 300lb ex-linemen going down when a 115 lb girl stabs him once in the back with a 7 - 9 inch blade
• Soldiers carrying shields but choosing not to use them in combat
• Jaime not turning back around to Dorne

Another gripe. By this point in the books, Jaime has shaved his head, grown a beard, drifts further away from Cersei, and is well on his way to reclaiming his honor. But D & D have him instead reconciling with Cersei over Myrcella's death?

Did Melisandre sacrifice herself to bring Jon back? Will she rapidly age to her death without the band of light around her neck? Or was she just resting?

She hasn't done anything yet. Her ruby necklace provides her with a powerful glamour that makes her appear young and attractive. She'll regain it as soon as she puts the necklace back on. Though last night's episode does seem to confirm a long-standing fan theory that Mel is immensely old; which is probably important to her identity and where she fits into the larger narrative. The most coherent theory I've seen is that she's actually Bloodraven's daughter.

I've seen a lot of uproar about Melisandre and the necklace, and how she wasn't wearing it in the tub in season 4.

Isn't the simple answer that the necklace has nothing to do with the glamour that she wears? The necklace is for protecting from poison, right?

In the books, the glamour that Mel crafts for Mance to make him look like Rattleshirt is also tied to a gem. I've seen some mentions about the bathtub scene in S4; if that's accurate, I'd assume that was a mistake by D&D.

 

[greyhammer90]

Another dumb thing since we're doing this. Solider wearing a shield on his back. Theon sneaks up and backstabs him. :-/

 

[IrishLion]

Another gripe. By this point in the books, Jaime has shaved his head, grown a beard, grows ever more distant from Cersei, and is well on his way to reclaiming his honor. But D & D have him instead reconciling with Cersei over Myrcella's death?

I posted this in the ASOIAF thread, but this was the worst part of the episode for me (aside from Trystane actually turning his back to one of the Sand Snakes).

I have hopes that Book Jaime will mess everything up for everybody with his conflicted nature and character redemption arc. But the show seems destined to kill that, as he reconciles with Cersei over Myrcella. I hope it's just a feint, and their relationships falls apart again.

 

[GATTACA!]

Another gripe. By this point in the books, Jaime has shaved his head, grown a beard, drifts further away from Cersei, and is well on his way to reclaiming his honor. But D & D have him instead reconciling with Cersei over Myrcella's death?



She hasn't done anything yet. Her ruby necklace provides her with a powerful glamour that makes her appear young and attractive. She'll regain it as soon as she puts the necklace back on. Though last night's episode does seem to confirm a long-standing fan theory that Mel is immensely old; which is probably important to her identity and where she fits into the larger narrative. The most coherent theory I've seen is that she's actually Bloodraven's daughter.



In the books, the glamour that Mel crafts for Mance to make him look like Rattleshirt is also tied to a gem. I've seen some mentions about the bathtub scene in S4; if that's accurate, I'd assume that was a mistake by D&D.

She could have been holding the necklace in her hand or had it around her ankle? I'd like to think D&D wouldn't be that sloppy. Some have speculated that Selyse was actually seeing her true form and that's why she gives her a weird look, but I don't think they shot it in a way that would really make me believe that looking back on it.

 

[greyhammer90]

I found Brienne's placement possible even if improbable. We know she was stationed outside the Bolton's camp, waiting to rescue Sansa. It is a vast forest but sometimes the gods smile upon a character.

Hounds bark.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

She severed the spine?



They were taken by surprise and engaged before they could bother to get their shields ready?



Was he on a Lannister boat, or a boat from Dorne? I didn't pay attention to the sails, but if Dorne is sending him back, no way they turn around to let him get revenge.


^Devil's advocate, I generally had the same questions lol.

Good point on the boat but if it was from Dorne and they knew the princess was going to be killed, then why didn't they kill Jaime? If they didn't know about the plot, surely he could've persuaded them to take him back on the claim of treason against their Prince's wishes (safely return his daughter to King's Landing).

Another gripe. By this point in the books, Jaime has shaved his head, grown a beard, drifts further away from Cersei, and is well on his way to reclaiming his honor. But D & D have him instead reconciling with Cersei over Myrcella's death?



She hasn't done anything yet. Her ruby necklace provides her with a powerful glamour that makes her appear young and attractive. She'll regain it as soon as she puts the necklace back on. Though last night's episode does seem to confirm a long-standing fan theory that Mel is immensely old; which is probably important to her identity and where she fits into the larger narrative. The most coherent theory I've seen is that she's actually Bloodraven's daughter.



In the books, the glamour that Mel crafts for Mance to make him look like Rattleshirt is also tied to a gem. I've seen some mentions about the bathtub scene in S4; if that's accurate, I'd assume that was a mistake by D&D.

Where do you purchase glamour necklaces? Melisandre has a perfect pair with that damned device.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Hounds bark.

Yes, good point. Even more probable she "runs into them".

 

[Luckylucci]

Good point on the boat but if it was from Dorne and they knew the princess was going to be killed, then why didn't they kill Jaime? If they didn't know about the plot, surely he could've persuaded them to take him back on the claim of treason against their Prince's wishes (safely return his daughter to King's Landing).




Where do you purchase glamour necklaces? Melisandre has a perfect pair with that damned device.

If nothing else, the show was a smashing hit solely because we got to see this.

 

[IrishLax]

Another dumb thing since we're doing this. Solider wearing a shield on his back. Theon sneaks up and backstabs him. :-/

People in this thread are way overly critical right now, to the point where I've held off on responding because I'm worried about biting people's head off. But eff it, I'm gonna give all you honkies a piece of my mind.

1. Who the fuck cares that the river was so cold that she and Theon might have died of hypothermia? Like seriously, unless you have literally all of the information about their core temperature, the temperature of the river, the air temperature, the wind speed, etc. you cannot possibly know that. Just stop. It's not just stupid, but your opinion on whether or not the laws of thermodynamics plus their inherent physical makeup might have resulted in their death before Brienne gets a fire going is completely irrelevant.

2. While we're on that scene, Theon did not stab the guy through the shield.

Note the height of the shield:

Note the height of the stab:

3. When you get stabbed in the back, especially by someone who is supposed to be very skilled at martial arts, that should be instantly debilitating and/or paralyzing. Ridiculous complaint.

4. When you're in combat, people make all kinds of mistakes. It is not quick, easy, or simple to equip your shield AND draw your sword when taken by surprise on horseback. If you only have time to do one what would you do? And in the middle of combat would you take the risk of trying to buy yourself enough time to then equip your shield?

5. Turn the boat around... maybe that would've been smart, maybe it would've gotten him killed. Maybe he was just more concerned about Myrcella than trying to get immediate retribution (with one hand)... maybe he didn't even have the authority to turn the DORNISH boat around.

6. Sandsnakes could've been planning crap for a LONG time. You have no idea how long that plan was coming, and maybe they have the support of everyone. Maybe they have the support of half the people. Or two-thirds. Maybe crap is about to hit the fan. But there is no gripe on it "making sense" it just deviates from the book in the sense that the book has Doran playing a long game at revenge and more loyalty, whereas in the show I guess they're saying he's actually just a puss.

I miss any?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If nothing else, the show was a smashing hit solely because we got to see this.

She apparently isn't shy about getting nude on camera. (NSFW)

 

[IrishLion]

I think there was a hole in the guy's shield in that scene, but I could be wrong. Either way, a shield is not necessarily going to stop a direct thrust from a sword. Easier to puncture with a direct "stab."

EDIT: Jk, I imagined the hole in the shield.

 

[Luckylucci]

She apparently isn't shy about getting nude on camera. (NSFW)

Apparently not, can't say I'm disappointed, lol.

 

[IrishLax]

I thought it was a good setup episode, but what I think frustrated a lot of people (and literally everyone at my premiere party) was that the episode felt like it needs 20 more minutes. It was too short. But beyond that, it actually resolved a lot of plot lines from the past season AND verified a couple popular theories book readers have had for awhile:
1. That Mel is much older than she physically appears.
2. That Dany was going to get hauled off to Vaes Dothrak.

The plot lines it advanced that I found intriguing were:
1. Sansa + Brienne team, which will be interesting to follow.
2. Dorne wants war, which is where the book was heading before Doran snuffed it out (but secretly actually wanted it). It was kind of inevitable that the Seven Kingdoms would be thrust into another large military conflict around this time... in the books the first straw is the Golden Company landing.

What I thought was a bit disappointing:
1. Dany going to spend the entire fucking season doing nothing AGAIN while Jorah and Daario go on a rescue mission (where Jorah ultimately sacrifices himself, I'm sure).
2. Jon Snow still unresolved.
3. Cersei/Jaime dynamic... yo, FUCK Cersei. Why is the show trying to make her sympathetic?

 

[Luckylucci]

I thought it was a good setup episode, but what I think frustrated a lot of people (and literally everyone at my premiere party) was that the episode felt like it needs 20 more minutes. It was too short. But beyond that, it actually resolved a lot of plot lines from the past season AND verified a couple popular theories book readers have had for awhile:
1. That Mel is much older than she physically appears.
2. That Dany was going to get hauled off to Vaes Dothrak.

The plot lines it advanced that I found intriguing were:
1. Sansa + Brienne team, which will be interesting to follow.
2. Dorne wants war, which is where the book was heading before Doran snuffed it out (but secretly actually wanted it). It was kind of inevitable that the Seven Kingdoms would be thrust into another large military conflict around this time... in the books the first straw is the Golden Company landing.

What I thought was a bit disappointing:
1. Dany going to spend the entire fucking season doing nothing AGAIN while Jorah and Daario go on a rescue mission (where Jorah ultimately sacrifices himself, I'm sure).
2. Jon Snow still unresolved.
3. Cersei/Jaime dynamic... yo, FUCK Cersei. Why is the show trying to make her sympathetic?

Agree, on the bolded.

On Dany, this was my first thought. Hopefully there is some resolution there sooner rather than later. Dany and the dragons are such an interesting part of the story, that I'll be pissed if its a lost season from that perspective.

I'd also add that I would've like them to setup Bran's storyline in the first episode, since it seems like that was the goal for a lot of the characters. Especially considering the lack of screentime he got last season.

 

[greyhammer90]

She apparently isn't shy about getting nude on camera. (NSFW)

She's a dime.

 

[IrishLion]

2. That Dany was going to get hauled off to Vaes Dothrak.

That could actually present some interesting situations. Chances are that she will be rescued by Mormont or the dragons before she reaches Vaes Dothrak. But if she actually DOES make it, there are avenues for some interesting and unknown "mysticism" among the widows I'm sure.

1. Dany going to spend the entire fucking season doing nothing AGAIN while Jorah and Daario go on a rescue mission (where Jorah ultimately sacrifices himself, I'm sure).

That's literally the only "worthy" place that his character can go, now that he's sick, short of Dany figuring out how to cure illnesses with Dragon Fire.

Otherwise, the only logical outcome based on his progression/story-arc is for him to sacrifice Dany due to his undying love for her, and as amends for being a traitor.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

People in this thread are way overly critical right now, to the point where I've held off on responding because I'm worried about biting people's head off. But eff it, I'm gonna give all you honkies a piece of my mind.

1. Who the fuck cares that the river was so cold that she and Theon might have died of hypothermia? Like seriously, unless you have literally all of the information about their core temperature, the temperature of the river, the air temperature, the wind speed, etc. you cannot possibly know that. Just stop. It's not just stupid, but your opinion on whether or not the laws of thermodynamics plus their inherent physical makeup might have resulted in their death before Brienne gets a fire going is completely irrelevant.

2. While we're on that scene, Theon did not stab the guy through the shield.

Note the height of the shield:

Note the height of the stab:

3. When you get stabbed in the back, especially by someone who is supposed to be very skilled at martial arts, that should be instantly debilitating and/or paralyzing. Ridiculous complaint.

4. When you're in combat, people make all kinds of mistakes. It is not quick, easy, or simple to equip your shield AND draw your sword when taken by surprise on horseback. If you only have time to do one what would you do? And in the middle of combat would you take the risk of trying to buy yourself enough time to then equip your shield?

5. Turn the boat around... maybe that would've been smart, maybe it would've gotten him killed. Maybe he was just more concerned about Myrcella than trying to get immediate retribution (with one hand)... maybe he didn't even have the authority to turn the DORNISH boat around.

6. Sandsnakes could've been planning crap for a LONG time. You have no idea how long that plan was coming, and maybe they have the support of everyone. Maybe they have the support of half the people. Or two-thirds. Maybe crap is about to hit the fan. But there is no gripe on it "making sense" it just deviates from the book in the sense that the book has Doran playing a long game at revenge and more loyalty, whereas in the show I guess they're saying he's actually just a puss.

I miss any?

I've reduced my replies to the most cogent answers:

1. I would care if it they swam 2000 meters breast stroke because then I find it almost impossible they'd be alive. But as it was shown, I had no issues.

2. Agreed.

3. GFY

4. See #3

5. Possible.

6. Huh?

I should've said all answers above are playful.

 

[gkIrish]

I thought it was a good setup episode, but what I think frustrated a lot of people (and literally everyone at my premiere party) was that the episode felt like it needs 20 more minutes. It was too short. But beyond that, it actually resolved a lot of plot lines from the past season AND verified a couple popular theories book readers have had for awhile:
1. That Mel is much older than she physically appears.
2. That Dany was going to get hauled off to Vaes Dothrak.

The plot lines it advanced that I found intriguing were:
1. Sansa + Brienne team, which will be interesting to follow.
2. Dorne wants war, which is where the book was heading before Doran snuffed it out (but secretly actually wanted it). It was kind of inevitable that the Seven Kingdoms would be thrust into another large military conflict around this time... in the books the first straw is the Golden Company landing.

What I thought was a bit disappointing:
1. Dany going to spend the entire fucking season doing nothing AGAIN while Jorah and Daario go on a rescue mission (where Jorah ultimately sacrifices himself, I'm sure).
2. Jon Snow still unresolved.
3. Cersei/Jaime dynamic... yo, FUCK Cersei. Why is the show trying to make her sympathetic?

That's all fine and maybe if this was episode 4 or something I wouldn't have complained so much. But for arguably the most anticipated episode in recent television history (considering the book readers for the first time did not know what was going to happen) to come out and leave me and many other people not feeling excited at all about the upcoming season is a major fault. Season premieres are supposed to get you super excited for what's coming next. That episode did not accomplish that.

I mean the only thing I am remotely excited about is finding out if Davos gets some mutton next episode.

 

[phillyirish]

I gotta disagree a little with one of your biggest complaints. I think a daughter being murdered is a suffice reason for Jaime to reconcile with his sister/slam piece.

But I'm still shocked how they fucked up Dorne so bad. Even though I'm not even a fan of Dorne in the books, it was a perfect setup to be a fan favorite region with the whole liberal openly gay and women can rule aspect. But now we get a full season dedicating 10-15 min each episode to a couple of horrid actresses calling each other bad b*tches or whatever..

Also Milisandre being old and Jon's dead body or even Danereys being captured are not big reveals. The only real plot movement in this episode was the Sansa and Brienne meeting up.

Aren't they giving the Greyjoys some screen time this season? I don't know how anything will get accomplished this season with that addition plus all these stagnant plot lines.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I mean the only thing I am remotely excited about is finding out if Davos gets some mutton next episode.

Unlikely:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KEXGWMpke4s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hopefully that's mere seconds before Tormund and Edd arrive.

 

[GATTACA!]

Unlikely:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KEXGWMpke4s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hopefully that's mere seconds before Tormund and Edd arrive.

Fuck that little bitch Ollie. They are really setting him up for a satisfying death.

 

[IrishLax]

Fuck that little bitch Ollie. They are really setting him up for a satisfying death.

I hope Ghost literally eats him.

 

[Irish YJ]

I hope Ghost literally eats him.

I was hoping someone would hack a few of his limbs off first, then Ghost get a shot at chewing the little shit's head off.