2016 Presidential Horse Race

[FightingIrishLover7]

Highlight of the debate:

1) HRC saying that corporations should be penalized for sending jobs overseas (which is largely her husband's fault).

2) HRC saying that "wall street is afraid of her", while she cashes their paychecks. The only thing they're afraid of is, her fing up this election up.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Highlight of the debate:

1) HRC saying that corporations should be penalized for sending jobs overseas (which is largely her husband's fault).

That's a bit murky.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...bernie-s/sanders-overshoots-nafta-job-losses/

 

[kmoose]

It's Univision's debate. There are non-English speaking people in this country.

In order to vote, one must be a US Citizen. In order to become a US Citizen, one is required to "speak, read, write, and understand English". There are obviously some exceptions, but those would seem to make up a very small portion of the population, so having a Presidential debate in Spanish is a waste of time. It also discourages the assimilation that seems to be such an important part of a successful immigration experience for both the immigrant and the immigrant's new country.

 

[kmoose]

That's a bit murky.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...bernie-s/sanders-overshoots-nafta-job-losses/

I bet that, if you talked to A Pac and dang227, they would tell you that it is not murky at all, in North Canton, OH: Where Hoover Vacuums were made for over 100 years. When Hoover was sold to TTI, Inc. TTI took advantage of the provisions of NAFTA and moved all of the manufacturing to Juarez, Mexico. The fact that no one in the Clinton Administration had the forethought to question if companies would take advantage of the combination of cheap labor and lack of tariffs to move jobs to Mexico is mind boggling at the very least, and damn near criminally incompetent at worst.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I bet that, if you talked to A Pac and dang227, they would tell you that it is not murky at all, in North Canton, OH: Where Hoover Vacuums were made for over 100 years. When Hoover was sold to TTI, Inc. TTI took advantage of the provisions of NAFTA and moved all of the manufacturing to Juarez, Mexico. The fact that no one in the Clinton Administration had the forethought to question if companies would take advantage of the combination of cheap labor and lack of tariffs to move jobs to Mexico is mind boggling at the very least, and damn near criminally incompetent at worst.

Could be...and I'm probably generally in agreement. Just pointing out that the studies are mixed.

Were Republicans criminally incompetent? Or is it just the administration?

NAFTA at 20: An Unhappy Birthday and a Look at the Roll Call Votes on "Free" Trade Deals

NAFTA passed the Senate 61 to 38. Democrats were almost evenly split: 27 YEA, 26 NAY (and 1 not in attendance for the vote). Republicans voted for it by a larger margin: 34 YEA to 12 NAY.
.....
NAFTA passed the House 234 to 200. House Democrats voted against it 156 to 102. Republicans supported it 132 to 43.

Combined:
Republicans: 166 YEA to 55 NAY = 75.1% support
Democrats: 129 YEA to 182 NAY = 41.5% support

 

[wizards8507]

FIFY

*Shrug.* That's how the Constitution works. The state can do lots of things the federal government can't do, many of which I don't agree with. Mitt Romney implemented Romneycare in Massachusetts. Mississippi might want to define marriage between a man and a woman. New York City has crazy taxes on cigarettes. You can't buy alcohol in Ocean City, New Jersey. The whole point of federalism is that self-governance is more effective when power is located as close to the individual as possible.

 

[kmoose]

Could be...and I'm probably generally in agreement. Just pointing out that the studies are mixed.

Were Republicans criminally incompetent? Or is it just the administration?

NAFTA at 20: An Unhappy Birthday and a Look at the Roll Call Votes on "Free" Trade Deals



Combined:
Republicans: 166 YEA to 55 NAY = 75.1% support
Democrats: 129 YEA to 182 NAY = 41.5% support

I put the onus on the Administration because they wrote the legislation. It was their pet project. Republicans were stupid not to think ahead, as well........ but it wasn't their legislation.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Only a matter of time. Yeesh.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AoA_mjVrvs4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And the guy who got punched was the one restrained by the police. Weird.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Only a matter of time. Yeesh.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AoA_mjVrvs4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And the guy who got punched was the one detained by the police. Weird.

Black protester gets punched by white guy. Cops ignore white guy who just assaulted a man. Instead, handcuff the black guy who just got punched. #DrumpfRally

 

[kmoose]

Only a matter of time. Yeesh.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AoA_mjVrvs4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And the guy who got punched was the one detained by the police. Weird.

Yes, it was only a matter of time until some racist minority showed up and baited someone into a fight.

I think they were probably just trying to keep them (the puncher and the punchee) separated. They didn't cuff the guy so I don't think they were planning on arresting him or holding him or anything.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Yes, it was only a matter of time until some racist minority showed up and baited someone into a fight.

I think they were probably just trying to keep them (the puncher and the punchee) separated. They didn't cuff the guy so I don't think they were planning on arresting him or holding him or anything.

Agree that they weren't going to arrest him. "Detain" was the wrong word. I changed it to "restrain."

That said, the person punching is still guilty of assault...regardless of whether he was baiting the crowd. It's not like he was in this guy's face or spitting on him. The guy wandered up to him and sucker punched him.

 

[kmoose]

Agree that they weren't going to arrest him. "Detain" was the wrong word. I changed it to "restrain."

That said, the person punching is still guilty of assault...regardless of whether he was baiting the crowd. It's not like he was in this guy's face or spitting on him. The guy wandered up to him and sucker punched him.

I agree. I wasn't trying to defend the guy.

 

[phgreek]

Only a matter of time. Yeesh.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AoA_mjVrvs4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And the guy who got punched was the one restrained by the police. Weird.

...and if I were there I'd have punched him for being a dude and wearing those pants.

 

[NorthDakota]

*Shrug.* That's how the Constitution works. The state can do lots of things the federal government can't do, many of which I don't agree with. Mitt Romney implemented Romneycare in Massachusetts. Mississippi might want to define marriage between a man and a woman. New York City has crazy taxes on cigarettes. You can't buy alcohol in Ocean City, New Jersey. The whole point of federalism is that self-governance is more effective when power is located as close to the individual as possible.

No. One shoe size fits all. The more power in Washington, the better.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I agree. I wasn't trying to defend the guy.

...and if I were there I'd have punched him for being a dude and wearing those pants.

Agreed on both counts.

 

[Cackalacky]

<div id="fb-root"></div><script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/sdk.js#xfbml=1&version=v2.3"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs);}(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script><div class="fb-video" data-allowfullscreen="1" data-href="/OccupyDemocrats/videos/vb.346937065399354/1084955338264186/?type=3"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><blockquote cite="https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1084955338264186/"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1084955338264186/">Man BEATS innocent black man at Donald Trump rally. What secur...</a></div></div>

 

[kmoose]

<div id="fb-root"></div><script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/sdk.js#xfbml=1&version=v2.3"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs);}(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script><div class="fb-video" data-allowfullscreen="1" data-href="/OccupyDemocrats/videos/vb.346937065399354/1084955338264186/?type=3"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><blockquote cite="https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1084955338264186/"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1084955338264186/">Man BEATS innocent black man at Donald Trump rally. What secur...</a></div></div>

That post is a good example of how dumb we have become as a society. He didn't "beat" him, in the sense that he hit him once and then stopped. If you asked 1000 people to define "beating", I would be willing to bet that more than 990 of them (>99%) would say that it involves multiple blows. And then people immediately jump on "Trump's security", even though anyone could plainly see that these were actual law enforcement officers. I'd like to know what the guy was yelling.

 

[woolybug25]

That post is a good example of how dumb we have become as a society. He didn't "beat" him, in the sense that he hit him once and then stopped. If you asked 1000 people to define "beating", I would be willing to bet that more than 990 of them (>99%) would say that it involves multiple blows. And then people immediately jump on "Trump's security", even though anyone could plainly see that these were actual law enforcement officers. I'd like to know what the guy was yelling.

So it's okay that he hit him?

In what world is it okay to hit someone for yelling something at a rally? You wouldn't allow a 8 year old child to behave that way, but you think it's acceptable for an adult?

 

[IrishJayhawk]

So it's okay that he hit him?

In what world is it okay to hit someone for yelling something at a rally? You wouldn't allow a 8 year old child to behave that way, but you think it's acceptable for an adult?

I don't think he was saying that. It's an awful act and he said above that he isn't defending the guy. But there is some sensationalism to the headline. It was a sucker punch, not a beating. Still assault, of course.

 

[wizards8507]

So it's okay that he hit him?

Of course not. I can't believe we have to resort to childish idioms like "two wrongs don't make a right."

In what world is it okay to hit someone for yelling something at a rally? You wouldn't allow a 8 year old child to behave that way, but you think it's acceptable for an adult?

It's not okay to hit someone at a rally. It's also not okay to misreport what happened. Cheating on your wife is wrong, but that doesn't mean it would be okay some blogger to report that you raped your mistress.

I don't think he was saying that. It's an awful act and he said above that he isn't defending the guy. But there is some sensationalism to the headline. It was a sucker punch, not a beating. Still assault, of course.

Right. This.

 

[kmoose]

So it's okay that he hit him?

In what world is it okay to hit someone for yelling something at a rally? You wouldn't allow a 8 year old child to behave that way, but you think it's acceptable for an adult?

No. It's not ok to hit him. The guy should suffer the consequences no matter what. But I might understand why the guy did it, if I knew what was said. I'm not saying that my understanding why he did it should absolve him of any consequences.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

That post is a good example of how dumb we have become as a society. He didn't "beat" him, in the sense that he hit him once and then stopped. If you asked 1000 people to define "beating", I would be willing to bet that more than 990 of them (>99%) would say that it involves multiple blows. And then people immediately jump on "Trump's security", even though anyone could plainly see that these were actual law enforcement officers. I'd like to know what the guy was yelling.

The things you choose defend and how you defend them shouldn't shock me anymore, but good grief man.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

No. It's not ok to hit him. The guy should suffer the consequences no matter what. But I might understand why the guy did it, if I knew what was said. I'm not saying that my understanding why he did it should absolve him of any consequences.

Protesters don't get an automatic sentence of "punch to the face."

 

[phgreek]

That post is a good example of how dumb we have become as a society. He didn't "beat" him, in the sense that he hit him once and then stopped. If you asked 1000 people to define "beating", I would be willing to bet that more than 990 of them (>99%) would say that it involves multiple blows. And then people immediately jump on "Trump's security", even though anyone could plainly see that these were actual law enforcement officers. I'd like to know what the guy was yelling.

...yup, Trump is an ass, the guy that threw the punch is beyond defending. But the people who tackled the victim were not TRUMP security, and that was not a beating by any measure.

We can jump on the police I guess, but only an idiot tries to restrain one of the masses in a situation like this...you remove the outlier...for obvious reasons. If you need to detain someone you wait and do it later. Cops did the right thing if not the most optically pleasing thing to the rest of the world.

 

[wizards8507]

The things you choose defend and how you defend them shouldn't shock me anymore, but good grief man.

Protesters don't get an automatic sentence of "punch to the face."

Oh my God that's not. what. he. said.

Obviously "protesters don't get an automatic sentence of punch to the face." But "punch to the face" isn't a "beating."

I'll make it very simple. A bad thing happened. The bad thing was misreported to make it sound even worse than it actually was. No, the misreporting doesn't make the bad thing less bad.

 

[kmoose]

The things you choose defend and how you defend them shouldn't shock me anymore, but good grief man.

I haven't defended anything. Just because I didn't pile on with the rest of the unwashed masses from that Facebook post doesn't mean that I am defending the guy's behavior. The guy committed assault and should face charges for that. But those ignorant people in that Facebook post are a shining example of the overly emotional reaction to events in life that is the antithesis of reasoned thought.

 

[Cackalacky]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/J8TqhBIEbWA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[mgriff]

Our country is seriously failing. The media is a fucking travesty and people have no access to unbiased information. Everyone has an agenda to push. I am wholly uninspired by anyone running for office on either side. I'm incredibly disappointed that our information is monopolized by people pushing their narrative on people to influence elections. Such a fucking shitshow.

 

[GoIrish41]

Yes, it was only a matter of time until some racist minority showed up and baited someone into a fight.

I think they were probably just trying to keep them (the puncher and the punchee) separated. They didn't cuff the guy so I don't think they were planning on arresting him or holding him or anything.

They probably shot him in the parking lot as he was walking away.

 

[kmoose]

They probably shot him in the parking lot as he was walking away.

Is it bad that I actually laughed at that one?

I would imagine that there were too many TV cameras outside. They probably will wait a few days and pull him over for improper lane change, and he will "resist". At which time one of the officers will mistake his Glock for his Taser, and well, ya know................