2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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Irish YJ

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RealClearPolitics - 2016 Presidential Race

Here is an aggregate of recent polls. Sanders pretty much dominates Clinton in head to heads versus each Republicans. His strongest competition would be Rubio. He crushes Trump and the other Republican candidates.

Clinton is favored to lose to each of the R's at this point, except Trump. This is nationally keep in mind. Interestingly enough, Kasich kills Clinton but she beats Trump and loses to everyone else.

Based on the polls I have been keeping up with, Bernie is in a statistical tie with Clinton right now and is trending up. He also crushes all candidates in the favorability category. IMO, Clinton goes down in the primaries again and it will be Sanders vs. Trump.

Take a look at the polls linked herein. I think It shows a pretty clear pattern IMO.

Hey Cack, how accurate are these historically.
I was really hoping he would give me a %. I was going to wager some Vbucks lol.

3 key take aways from last night:

Rubio is a choke artist, Cruz is a basket case and The Wall is going to be 10 ft higher.

but MX is not paying for the fvcking wall....

If Kasich doesn't pull something out of his arse to get votes (I hope he does), I just have a feeling he will be a good VP candidate for the leaders.

To little, to late, but I like him too.

I'm not defending Trump, but your link only supports his answer to the question. The folks suing Trump worked for a contractor that was hired to raze an existing building.

1. Trump didn't "import" any of them, or even directly hire them. He's no more responsible for illegal labor than you would be, if you contracted Merry Maids to clean your house, then Merry Maids used undocumented workers.

2. They didn't work on Trump Tower; they were tearing down an existing building. It might be splitting hairs, but that's politics.

Exactly.... I found something to this effect too during the debate.

Great article, that's just what it is.

The podcast I linked above makes a similar point, though more obliquely. People seem to like Trump based on vague notions that he doesn't do the typical politician's song and dance, or "he's not politically correct."

Well, political correctness annoys me too sometimes, but is this really a basis for choosing a president? He doesn't care who he offends, so he can be president?

If that's what's passing for logic among Trump supporters, the traditional political attacks aren't going to work.

See below.

Posted this yesterday:



Seems like a whole lot of Trump supporters are simply voting to burn the establishment down. No need for logical or factual consistency behind that sentiment.

This is not exactly where I'm at, but damn close. Just tired of both parties. I personally don't think he can screw anything up more than the other guys the last 20 years. I think 4 years from him would burn a lot of the BS down, and the other two parties might be forced to take stock and learn something. Not learn from Trump, but why the nation would vote a guy like him in.

What comments about his daughter?

can't see the link, vid, or pic, or whatever it is...
 
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Buster Bluth

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Who is to say what is competence? Maybe I think this should bar people from voting:

Poll: Nearly 8 in 10 Americans believe in angels - CBS News

or

In U.S., 42% Believe Creationist View of Human Origins

or

Most Americans take Bible stories literally - Washington Times

Can someone point to the last growth in voting rights that we can say with confidence was a bad move? Men who don't own land? Women? Blacks?
 
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GoIrish41

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IrishLax

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Who is to say what is competence? Maybe I think this should bar people from voting:

Poll: Nearly 8 in 10 Americans believe in angels - CBS News

or

In U.S., 42% Believe Creationist View of Human Origins

or

Most Americans take Bible stories literally - Washington Times

Can someone point to the last growth in voting rights that we can say with confidence was a bad move? Men who don't own land? Women? Blacks?

IMO, voting rights should be grossly restricted. Not by gender, race, etc obviously but I'm sick of dumb, illogical, irresponsible, and incompetent people voting.

I wouldn't let anyone convicted of a felony vote. I wouldn't let people with bad credit scores vote. I'd support logarithmic scaling of how much each individual's vote counted for corresponding to how much tax money they're contributing to the system... old people living strictly off entitlements would get zero votes, people working jobs and paying in to those programs would get lots of votes. I'd establish a baseline IQ of at least 90 to be allowed to vote, and a demonstrated high school reading level per accepted standardized test. I have to research this more, but I think I'd use the standard US citizenship civics question test as a pre-requisite for voting... if you can't pass the citizenship test you don't get to vote becaus you're dumb and uninformed.

Say no to stupid.
 

calvegas04

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IMO, voting rights should be grossly restricted. Not by gender, race, etc obviously but I'm sick of dumb, illogical, irresponsible, and incompetent people voting.

I wouldn't let anyone convicted of a felony vote. I wouldn't let people with bad credit scores vote. I'd support logarithmic scaling of how much each individual's vote counted for corresponding to how much tax money they're contributing to the system... old people living strictly off entitlements would get zero votes, people working jobs and paying in to those programs would get lots of votes. I'd establish a baseline IQ of at least 90 to be allowed to vote, and a demonstrated high school reading level per accepted standardized test. I have to research this more, but I think I'd use the standard US citizenship civics question test as a pre-requisite for voting... if you can't pass the citizenship test you don't get to vote becaus you're dumb and uninformed.

Say no to stupid.
are you trying to destroy the democrats? lol
 

woolybug25

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Of course... Because im sure the government choosing who is "smart" enough to choose who leads them would end well.

You guys are essentially suggesting serfdom. Where the government deems whose opinions matter and whose do not. These same people could own property, fight for their country and pay taxes in which they have no representation. Pretty much shitting on the fundamental right that all men are created equal.

The credit score is a comical suggestion. So a guy that gets his credit ruined because he mortgaged his life to pay for the life saving healthcare required to save his cancer stricken child should also not be able to have a voice in who makes decisions on the laws he must follow?

It's also surprising that it's always conservative minded folks that suggest this. The same people that are supposed to believe in less government intervention.
 
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Buster Bluth

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You guys are essentially suggesting serfdom.

Yeah I read that and as a guy who sorta fears that capitalism may be slowly devolving into feudalism all I could think is "welp that'll accelerate that problem...".
 

IrishLax

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Of course... Because im sure the government choosing who is "smart" enough to choose who leads them would end well.

Wow, wooly... notice how I didn't choose a list subjective measure of intelligence?

You guys are essentially suggesting serfdom. Where the government deems whose opinions matter and whose do not. These same people could own property, fight for their country and pay taxes in which they have no representation. Pretty much shitting on the fundamental right that all men are created equal.

The credit score is a comical suggestion. So a guy that gets his credit ruined because he mortgaged his life to pay for the life saving healthcare required to save his cancer stricken child should also not be able to have a voice in who makes decisions on the laws he must follow?

It's also surprising that it's always conservative minded folks that suggest this. The same people that are supposed to believe in less government intervention.

In order...

1) lolwut

2) being "created equal" and recognizing that it's a terrible idea to give a Ph.D. with a 140 IQ that pays taxes the same input in our country's future as a person with a 60 IQ on death row for rape and murder of children is not mutually exclusive. I'm picking extremes here to illustrate how common sense it is to say that certain people are better equipped to be responsible decision makers despite being "created equal."

3) I'm not saying every single bullet point makes sense, but it'd be good to have some measure of who is a responsible citizen or not. If it makes you feel better remove credit score.

4) I have voted blue in every recent election. But whatever helps you sleep at night.
 

IrishLax

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Yeah I read that and as a guy who sorta fears that capitalism may be slowly devolving into feudalism all I could think is "welp that'll accelerate that problem...".

I meant to broach this topic more with you the other day when you typed up a good, long post on voting rights... but I got sidetracked. I'd really love to debate the merits of this if you have the time or the interest.

IMO, it is extremely illogical to suggest that the country is better served by enabling the incompetent or the degenerate the same input in all matters. Can you honestly say that you think a model citizen should have the same voting rights as a drug lord? Or someone who is so mentally incapacitated that they can't even remember the names of the candidates should get the same input as an informed, intelligent person?

The country was designed to be a representative republic. It was designed for people to have significant input at a local level, and then for those various representatives to choose things like senators or the president. Now we let the masses directly elect every official, and it frankly does not work. It doesn't produce the most qualified leaders in these positions.

Furthermore, it's basically an accepted fact of political science that pure democracy is a horrendous form of government. Over time, we have inched closer and closer to that... which is not good.
 

woolybug25

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Wow, wooly... notice how I didn't choose a list subjective measure of intelligence?



In order...

1) lolwut

2) being "created equal" and recognizing that it's a terrible idea to give a Ph.D. with a 140 IQ that pays taxes the same input in our country's future as a person with a 60 IQ on death row for rape and murder of children is not mutually exclusive. I'm picking extremes here to illustrate how common sense it is to say that certain people are better equipped to be responsible decision makers despite being "created equal."

3) I'm not saying every single bullet point makes sense, but it'd be good to have some measure of who is a responsible citizen or not. If it makes you feel better remove credit score.

4) I have voted blue in every recent election. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

I wasn't trying to insult, so my apologies if it came off harsh. But I will try to elaborate.

1) Like serfdom, who had property rights as well, this suggestion would essentially take the natural law away from them. The idea that a man has the right to have a say in the property he acquires.

2) I understand what you're saying, but your example of an inmate is one that has had those rights removed constitutionally and are in punishment of the state. Not sure how that relates to a poor, elderly, sick or uneducated person that has done nothing illegal.

3) I personally don't want government arbitrarily choosing who is "responsible". There would always be a level subjectivity. I would prefer that subjectivity be in the hands of citizens, not testing designated by our government. That's tyranny in its rawest sense.

4) I didn't mean to suggest you. But you have to admit that this is typically a conservative mindset. A misguided one at that, considering the south (heavily conservative) has the largest percentage of people with government assistance and old people aren't exactly a liberal voting bloc.

Again... It sucks when you talk to someone that is insanely unaware of what they are voting for or watching politicians cater to those people. But I don't think that I have the right to tell a poor, elderly potato farmer with an 8th grade education that he can't choose to vote for Trump because he hates Mexicans. I think it's entirely misguided, but as a citizen, it's not okay for me to take away his constitutional right to have representative leadership.
 

IrishLax

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I wasn't trying to insult, so my apologies if it came off harsh. But I will try to elaborate.

1) Like serfdom, who had property rights as well, this suggestion would essentially take the natural law away from them. The idea that a man has the right to have a say in the property he acquires.

2) I understand what you're saying, but your example of an inmate is one that has had those rights removed constitutionally and are in punishment of the state. Not sure how that relates to a poor, elderly, sick or uneducated person that has done nothing illegal.

3) I personally don't want government arbitrarily choosing who is "responsible". There would always be a level subjectivity. I would prefer that subjectivity be in the hands of citizens, not testing designated by our government. That's tyranny in its rawest sense.

4) I didn't mean to suggest you. But you have to admit that this is typically a conservative mindset. A misguided one at that, considering the south (heavily conservative) has the largest percentage of people with government assistance and old people aren't exactly a liberal voting bloc.

Again... It sucks when you talk to someone that is insanely unaware of what they are voting for or watching politicians cater to those people. But I don't think that I have the right to tell a poor, elderly potato farmer with an 8th grade education that he can't choose to vote for Trump because he hates Mexicans. I think it's entirely misguided, but as a citizen, it's not okay for me to take away his constitutional right to have representative leadership.

Thanks for the response I'll read it in detail tomorrow and respond. This is a topic that interests me a lot, and I think there is an effective middle ground between "every human regardless of condition gets the same exact input" and "let these couple select people decide." But that's just my opinion.
 

GATTACA!

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Of course... Because im sure the government choosing who is "smart" enough to choose who leads them would end well.

You guys are essentially suggesting serfdom. Where the government deems whose opinions matter and whose do not. These same people could own property, fight for their country and pay taxes in which they have no representation. Pretty much shitting on the fundamental right that all men are created equal.

The credit score is a comical suggestion. So a guy that gets his credit ruined because he mortgaged his life to pay for the life saving healthcare required to save his cancer stricken child should also not be able to have a voice in who makes decisions on the laws he must follow?

It's also surprising that it's always conservative minded folks that suggest this. The same people that are supposed to believe in less government intervention.

Yes i agree the credit score idea is terrible. So is the IQ level, IQ tests aren't a great way to determine true intelligence anyways. Even if you accept them, the type of intellect they measure wouldn't be particularly relevant in determining someone's qualifications as a voter. Assigning weights to different votes is also a mess, and could be manipulated very easily.

I would be in favor of a short 10 question multiple choice quiz that you have to complete along with your ballot. I would make it super easy questions that show the most basic understanding of the political system and the current election. If you score lower than an 8/10 your ballot gets tossed in the trash.
 

Rhode Irish

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IMO, voting rights should be grossly restricted. Not by gender, race, etc obviously but I'm sick of dumb, illogical, irresponsible, and incompetent people voting.

I wouldn't let anyone convicted of a felony vote. I wouldn't let people with bad credit scores vote. I'd support logarithmic scaling of how much each individual's vote counted for corresponding to how much tax money they're contributing to the system... old people living strictly off entitlements would get zero votes, people working jobs and paying in to those programs would get lots of votes. I'd establish a baseline IQ of at least 90 to be allowed to vote, and a demonstrated high school reading level per accepted standardized test. I have to research this more, but I think I'd use the standard US citizenship civics question test as a pre-requisite for voting... if you can't pass the citizenship test you don't get to vote becaus you're dumb and uninformed.

Say no to stupid.

I don't think anybody has less tolerance for idiots than I do, but when it comes to voting you have to live with the fact that some idiots are going to vote and hopefully they balance each other out. The danger to our system that would be presented by allowing any restriction on access to polls far outweighs the damage likely to be done by dumb voters exercising their right to vote. Fortunately, the jurisprudence on this is pretty clear that you would never be able to do something like what you're suggesting without violating Equal Protection.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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IMO, it is extremely illogical to suggest that the country is better served by enabling the incompetent or the degenerate the same input in all matters. Can you honestly say that you think a model citizen should have the same voting rights as a drug lord? Or someone who is so mentally incapacitated that they can't even remember the names of the candidates should get the same input as an informed, intelligent person?

Yes I can honestly say that. I don't even really have to dwell on it much. Good government has balance between the will of the common people and the will of the elites, that's the social contract and a representative republic should have that. Representatives make the decisions that count but it is imperative that they be held accountable on election night to people of all incomes, intelligence levels, races, etc.

It's kinda moot though, as we haven't topped 63% voter participation in 108 years. And the record in my lifetime is 57%, in a 2008 campaign with pretty remarkable energy. So it's not like people are voting in large numbers anyway, especially the poor.

I have no faith in the government being able to use objective measures to decide who votes. As I stated previously, I think not allowing felons to vote is little more than southerners finding a way to be racists. So I feel that I don't have to look much further than that to see why intelligence tests or credit scores would be a bad idea.

The country was designed to be a representative republic. It was designed for people to have significant input at a local level, and then for those various representatives to choose things like senators or the president. Now we let the masses directly elect every official, and it frankly does not work. It doesn't produce the most qualified leaders in these positions.

They changed it because it didn't work. The corruption in the late nineteenth century was simply absurd.

The masses do not directly elect every official, in fact it is uniquely American that the officials directly elect their masses every ten years by gerrymandering the competition out of elections. For instance my district, OH-5, hasn't seen an incumbent lose an election since 1938.

I think you are assuming that the previous system produced qualified leaders, I don't think there is any evidence supporting that. If anything I'd say the Presidents elected in the 20th century were superior to the 19th century, which had a really bad run of Presidents whom historians say were our least effective.

Furthermore, it's basically an accepted fact of political science that pure democracy is a horrendous form of government. Over time, we have inched closer and closer to that... which is not good.

I don't think we have inched closer to that at all. The influence of the voters on federal policy weakens every year.

The federal government is not swayed by public opinion any more, despite more direct elections for representatives. Public opinion, the will of the masses of idiots you may fear, has no effect on voting in DC. It is simply money vs money that squares off behind doors, like with SOPA when some people thought their phone calls to Reps mattered in a people vs Orwellian state showdown...but they were wrong it was simple Hollywood money vs Silicon Valley money and Silicon Valley won that round.

I think if anything we need wider voter representative and substantial structural reform to restore a balance in the government between the people and the elites.
 
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Black Irish

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IMO, voting rights should be grossly restricted. Not by gender, race, etc obviously but I'm sick of dumb, illogical, irresponsible, and incompetent people voting.

I wouldn't let anyone convicted of a felony vote. I wouldn't let people with bad credit scores vote. I'd support logarithmic scaling of how much each individual's vote counted for corresponding to how much tax money they're contributing to the system... old people living strictly off entitlements would get zero votes, people working jobs and paying in to those programs would get lots of votes. I'd establish a baseline IQ of at least 90 to be allowed to vote, and a demonstrated high school reading level per accepted standardized test. I have to research this more, but I think I'd use the standard US citizenship civics question test as a pre-requisite for voting... if you can't pass the citizenship test you don't get to vote becaus you're dumb and uninformed.

Say no to stupid.

Keep in mind that smart, successful, and productive does not automatically mean that you have a voter who is informed and motivated. The yuppie couple with a masters degree apiece, pulling down mid six figures, driving luxury cars and living in a McMansion with their 2.5 kids that they send to a tony private school very likely doesn't have the time or inclination to be deeply knowledgeable about politics. They're too busy. So they read a few random political articles on their news feed prior to the election, land on a candidate who seems palatable, and pull the lever. Along with pulling the lever on a slew of state and local level candidates they have never heard of and know nothing about aside from if they have a "D" or "R" listed by their names.

I sincerely believe that this country would do well to have a higher level of political and civic knowledge. But I recognize it as a broad-based problem. We can't just lay the burden at the feet of the lazy, deranged, and corrupt. In fact, your borderline psychotic demagogue may be very well-informed about politics. The problem isn't his lack of knowledge or motivation, the problem is that he is freaking nuts. But the smart, reasonable person isn't going to be much of a counter-balance if he just votes based on what his Facebook feed tells him.
 

IrishLax

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I wasn't trying to insult, so my apologies if it came off harsh. But I will try to elaborate.

1) Like serfdom, who had property rights as well, this suggestion would essentially take the natural law away from them. The idea that a man has the right to have a say in the property he acquires.

2) I understand what you're saying, but your example of an inmate is one that has had those rights removed constitutionally and are in punishment of the state. Not sure how that relates to a poor, elderly, sick or uneducated person that has done nothing illegal.

3) I personally don't want government arbitrarily choosing who is "responsible". There would always be a level subjectivity. I would prefer that subjectivity be in the hands of citizens, not testing designated by our government. That's tyranny in its rawest sense.

4) I didn't mean to suggest you. But you have to admit that this is typically a conservative mindset. A misguided one at that, considering the south (heavily conservative) has the largest percentage of people with government assistance and old people aren't exactly a liberal voting bloc.

Again... It sucks when you talk to someone that is insanely unaware of what they are voting for or watching politicians cater to those people. But I don't think that I have the right to tell a poor, elderly potato farmer with an 8th grade education that he can't choose to vote for Trump because he hates Mexicans. I think it's entirely misguided, but as a citizen, it's not okay for me to take away his constitutional right to have representative leadership.

OK so first let me concede a couple points... it's not pragmatic or realistic or probably even a good idea to restrict voting rights in many of the ways I suggested above. Most of that crap was half-baked (and I'd had a half dozen beers). Things like setting an IQ cutoff or using a credit score has obvious issues.

But to the stuff I've bolded, what I think would be an interesting discussion is about whether voting is a truly a right or is it more of privilege (like the privilege to drive a car, etc.)? And if it's a right, what level of voting enfranchisement for all parties would satisfy that right? And are there any conditions that would cause someone to forfeit that right (e.g. criminality, etc.)?

IMO, at minimum, I'd restrict voting in two ways:
1) Crimes. Pretty much already done.
2) Basic civics knowledge. I believe we already have a test for this when you apply for US Citizenship... if you can't pass this sort of basic test that is a pre-requisite for being a citizen, then you should not be able to vote. This follows logically for a couple reasons, mainly because if voting is a right/privilege of being a citizen than it is reasonable to ask someone to demonstrate the basic competency required to achieve citizenship.

Just adding #2 would get rid of the possibility for a President Trump or President Camacho. I also think that, in general, adding barriers to voter enfranchisement to make it more of a privilege would implicitly increase overall participation and voter turnout as people would value it more. And the increased turnout would be from people that, collectively, are more suited to making informed decisions.
 

Wild Bill

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OK so first let me concede a couple points... it's not pragmatic or realistic or probably even a good idea to restrict voting rights in many of the ways I suggested above. Most of that crap was half-baked (and I'd had a half dozen beers). Things like setting an IQ cutoff or using a credit score has obvious issues.

But to the stuff I've bolded, what I think would be an interesting discussion is about whether voting is a truly a right or is it more of privilege (like the privilege to drive a car, etc.)? And if it's a right, what level of voting enfranchisement for all parties would satisfy that right? And are there any conditions that would cause someone to forfeit that right (e.g. criminality, etc.)?

IMO, at minimum, I'd restrict voting in two ways:
1) Crimes. Pretty much already done.
2) Basic civics knowledge. I believe we already have a test for this when you apply for US Citizenship... if you can't pass this sort of basic test that is a pre-requisite for being a citizen, then you should not be able to vote. This follows logically for a couple reasons, mainly because if voting is a right/privilege of being a citizen than it is reasonable to ask someone to demonstrate the basic competency required to achieve citizenship.

Just adding #2 would get rid of the possibility for a President Trump or President Camacho. I also think that, in general, adding barriers to voter enfranchisement to make it more of a privilege would implicitly increase overall participation and voter turnout as people would value it more. And the increased turnout would be from people that, collectively, are more suited to making informed decisions.

Agree with 1, disagree on 2 but I don't think it's unreasonable.

I wouldn't mind voting restrictions for individuals in delinquent status on their taxes where there is not an active repayment and individuals who owe for an overpayment of government benefit, i.e., social security, where fraud is involved.
 

drayer54

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As much as I loathe the idea of some of the mouth breathers that I see at Hillary and Trump gatherings voting......

1 vote per person with ID indicating an address in the appropriate precinct. Felons who have served the sentence and are not on probation... aka paid their dues should have a vote.

If I wanted to crap on the freedom of other Americans then I would be no better than the gun haters.
 

alohagoirish

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Trump---the Liberal Fascist---

Its very amusing and I have to hand it to Trump for confusing American politics so completely.

Mainstream liberals see Trump as the worst possible evolution of conservatism, he's a xenophobic racist, a self seeking oligarch , a radical right wing extremist, the embodiment of everything that's wrong with republicans and conservatives.

Conservatives on the other hand see Trump as a Raving Liberal in process of undermining everything conservatives have worked for , a supporter of planned parenthood , a guy against the free trade that makes America what it is, a guy that supports Social security, Medicare, and even wants health care for everyone, a candidate that dares to see Israel and Palestine in some kind of disturbing equanimity. A candidate so blatantly LIBERAL Bill Kristal today has threatened to start a new conservative party with Dick Chaney in the horrifying event Trump wins the nomination.

I can't think of another political figure in the last 100 years that has caused the ideological turmoil and confusion that this candidate has, its very fascinating.
 

NDRock

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As much as I loathe the idea of some of the mouth breathers that I see at Hillary and Trump gatherings voting......

1 vote per person with ID indicating an address in the appropriate precinct. Felons who have served the sentence and are not on probation... aka paid their dues should have a vote.

If I wanted to crap on the freedom of other Americans then I would be no better than the gun haters.

Exactly.
 

Anchorman

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Genuine curiosity here--IE tends to skew right if I recall from the 2012 election poll. So out of the Republicans here, what is your game plan assuming a Trump/Clinton matchup? 3rd party? Stay home? Flip to HRC? Stay with Trump?

As someone who was on the fence in 2012 my mind is pretty clear, but would be interesting to hear what others are planning.

I don't know how to embed this https://mobile.twitter.com/manny_ottawa/status/703653723332026368

Holy crap if Trump flips NY forget about it, the election is over.

That poll is just of two Long Island counties (Nassau and Suffolk) that Obama barely won in 2012. Doesn't show that NY is in play whatsoever.
 
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phgreek

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Genuine curiosity here--IE tends to skew right if I recall from the 2012 election poll. So out of the Republicans here, what is your game plan assuming a Trump/Clinton matchup? 3rd party? Stay home? Flip to HRC? Stay with Trump?

As someone who was on the fence in 2012 my mind is pretty clear, but would be interesting to hear what others are planning.



That poll is just of two Long Island counties (Nassau and Suffolk) that Obama barely won in 2012. Doesn't show that NY is in play whatsoever.

My order of experience is Governor, Mayor (NY, Frisco, etc.), Senator. I could consider a CEO. Senator or Representative...GTFO. So where I am is not voting or voting 3rd party. Since I have voted in every election since I was legal to vote...it'd probably be a 3rd party. Its about the only way we have to reject the offering.
 

GATTACA!

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Genuine curiosity here--IE tends to skew right if I recall from the 2012 election poll. So out of the Republicans here, what is your game plan assuming a Trump/Clinton matchup? 3rd party? Stay home? Flip to HRC? Stay with Trump?

As someone who was on the fence in 2012 my mind is pretty clear, but would be interesting to hear what others are planning.



That poll is just of two Long Island counties (Nassau and Suffolk) that Obama barely won in 2012. Doesn't show that NY is in play whatsoever.

Trump all day long. I'll vote for Buster or Lax before I voted Hillary. I'll vote for anyone except Hillary.
 

Wild Bill

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Genuine curiosity here--IE tends to skew right if I recall from the 2012 election poll. So out of the Republicans here, what is your game plan assuming a Trump/Clinton matchup? 3rd party? Stay home? Flip to HRC? Stay with Trump?

As someone who was on the fence in 2012 my mind is pretty clear, but would be interesting to hear what others are planning.



That poll is just of two Long Island counties (Nassau and Suffolk) that Obama barely won in 2012. Doesn't show that NY is in play whatsoever.

I'd slam my junk in a sliding glass door before I voted for Hilary.

Trump will get my vote. Maybe he makes America great again.

I'll be over here paying taxes either way.
 

BobbyMac

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If you think this country is divided now just wait until 4 years of Clinton or Trump.
 

DillonHall

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Genuine curiosity here--IE tends to skew right if I recall from the 2012 election poll. So out of the Republicans here, what is your game plan assuming a Trump/Clinton matchup? 3rd party? Stay home? Flip to HRC? Stay with Trump?

As someone who was on the fence in 2012 my mind is pretty clear, but would be interesting to hear what others are planning.

I'd vote for Clinton over Trump. This guy obviously has narcissistic personality disorder and would be an awful president.
 
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