ND Men's Basketball 2015-2016 season

[irishfan]

That decided the game. Pretty unbelievable.

That and Brey burning timeouts. We could have called one when Auguste initially got the rebound, or when DJ dove on it.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Classic Mike Brey clock mismanagement. We had about 45 seconds left on our last possession. Two for one you ask? Nope... Just waste time, get a shitty shot and let them have the art possession.

No excuse for not going two for one. That's just poor clock recognition. I guarantee brey never even thought about two for one.

 

[IrishLax]

That and Brey burning timeouts. We could have called one when Auguste initially got the rebound, or when DJ dove on it.

2 points over the last 4:30 because of Brey taking those timeouts, too. He completely shut down the offense.

Either way, that jump ball call was pathetic. Refs got scared of making an unfavorable call on the road. Obvious fouls on that play.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I'm livid about the no attempt for a two for one on our last possession.

I truly believe Brey has little to no ability to manage games when they get close. His timeouts are awful. Just save one, always, especially if it's that close.

 

[NDgradstudent]

I'm livid about the no attempt for a two for one on our last possession.

I truly believe Brey has little to no ability to manage games when they get close. His timeouts are awful. Just save one, always, especially if it's that close.

The lack of scoring late was pretty bad. Giving me flashbacks to the Elite 8 game.

The officiating was garbage, but you make yourself a hostage to fortune when it is close late.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Damn bad loss, probably lost a top 4 seed in ACC tourney, also hurts NCAA seeding. Probably a 6 line at this moment in time.


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[tko]

Horrible loss, ghost of Bobby Cremins coming alive. I love Jackson, but he had two costly trips at the end. I understand taking the clock down, however, you can't come away with a shot clock violation on one and a fully contested attempt on the other that resulted in a scrum. This had shades of Grant versus Kentucky taking 4 low, low percentage attempts down the stretch.

 

[texbender]

Damn bad loss, probably lost a top 4 seed in ACC tourney, also hurts NCAA seeding. Probably a 6 line at this moment in time.


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Games like this one are why ND never is respected in the polls or at tournament selection time. While they occasionally play incredible games against far superior opponents, those games are offset by crappy played games against inferior teams (Pitt, SU, GT, UA, Monmouth, et al). I love Muffet's Lady Irish and their ability to finish off games vs good opponents, even on off nights. Can't say the same for ND Men.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Games like this one are why ND never is respected in the polls or at tournament selection time. While they occasionally play incredible games against far superior opponents, those games are offset by crappy played games against inferior teams (Pitt, SU, GT, UA, Monmouth, et al). I love Muffet's Lady Irish and their ability to finish off games vs good opponents, even on off nights. Can't say the same for ND Men.

ND is not the only team to play crappy games against inferior opponents. You think Duke fans don't feel this way about playing us? ND's talent level is not consistently as high as the blue-blood programs. Besides, polls and seeds only matter so much in college basketball- you can over perform your seed, too, if the talent is there (e.g. a 7 vs. 8 seed for the title in 2014).

I'm not sure what your point is about the men vis-a-vis the women. The talent gap between, say, the ND men and GT men is much smaller than between the ND women and GT women. Muffet is a tremendous coach and the best coach at ND right now, but it also helps when you have tons of top talent every year. If the average IQ of male basketball players was as high as female basketball players the ND men would win far more games and do better in the tournament. Not enough of the top talent on the men's side can get into ND.

Female players also need more options for making money after college, even if they play professionally, and for that reason are likely to care more about the degree they get. Given all of these structural factors, it would shocking if the ceiling for the women's team at ND was not higher than for the men's team. If the rules change, and players can go straight to the NBA from high school again, then this might change.

 

[irishandy]

It's too bad that ND's buy week came at this time. They were having a good momentum swing.

Does anyone else think Demetrius Jackson is a bit overrated?? He looked bored yesterday. I think if he would've been more aggressive in driving to the basket it would've created better offensive opportunities. There were quite a few pick and rolls at the top that he missed Zach Auguste on (Jerian Grant wouldn't have missed him last year).

If Demetrius wants to forego his sr. season then go...I'd rather him stay to become a better complete all around player.

Why is Martinas Geben not playing??

I think this team has so much more potential that they beat themselves. I know for sure that a 6'5" Pat Connaughton wasn't afraid to rebound last year.

 

[texbender]

ND is not the only team to play crappy games against inferior opponents. You think Duke fans don't feel this way about playing us? ND's talent level is not consistently as high as the blue-blood programs. Besides, polls and seeds only matter so much in college basketball- you can over perform your seed, too, if the talent is there (e.g. a 7 vs. 8 seed for the title in 2014).

I'm not sure what your point is about the men vis-a-vis the women. The talent gap between, say, the ND men and GT men is much smaller than between the ND women and GT women. Muffet is a tremendous coach and the best coach at ND right now, but it also helps when you have tons of top talent every year. If the average IQ of male basketball players was as high as female basketball players the ND men would win far more games and do better in the tournament. Not enough of the top talent on the men's side can get into ND.

Female players also need more options for making money after college, even if they play professionally, and for that reason are likely to care more about the degree they get. Given all of these structural factors, it would shocking if the ceiling for the women's team at ND was not higher than for the men's team. If the rules change, and players can go straight to the NBA from high school again, then this might change.

Agree, other teams play crappy at times. Don't get the Duke reference, they are not the Duke people are accustomed to. Point was that ND is not respected due to its history of playing like crap vs inferior/similar talent. They should easily already have 20 wins this year.
My point in referencing ND WB is that they have consistently finished games vs very talented teams for years, even on night they weren't playing their best. That is refreshing to me, cuz I just don't see it from ND MB.
Agree that Brey does pretty good with the talent pool available to him..tends to do more with less than most coaches.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Agree, other teams play crappy at times. Don't get the Duke reference, they are not the Duke people are accustomed to. Point was that ND is not respected due to its history of playing like crap vs inferior/similar talent. They should easily already have 20 wins this year.
My point in referencing ND WB is that they have consistently finished games vs very talented teams for years, even on night they weren't playing their best. That is refreshing to me, cuz I just don't see it from ND MB.
Agree that Brey does pretty good with the talent pool available to him..tends to do more with less than most coaches.

The Duke reference is that our record against them since joining the ACC is very good, even when our team was lousy (2013-14) and even when their team won the national title (last year). They are more talented than us every year, but their record against us doesn't show it.

Brey has definitely underperformed in the tournament. I believe his teams at ND have only beaten a higher seed once, and of course he has lost to lower seeds a number of times. Hopefully we can over-perform our seeding this year. My point is that if you look at coaches who over-perform their seeding, they tend to be coaches who consistently have tons of talent on their teams, even when they are a lower seed than usual.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

It's too bad that ND's buy week came at this time. They were having a good momentum swing.

Does anyone else think Demetrius Jackson is a bit overrated?? He looked bored yesterday. I think if he would've been more aggressive in driving to the basket it would've created better offensive opportunities. There were quite a few pick and rolls at the top that he missed Zach Auguste on (Jerian Grant wouldn't have missed him last year).

If Demetrius wants to forego his sr. season then go...I'd rather him stay to become a better complete all around player.

Why is Martinas Geben not playing??

I think this team has so much more potential that they beat themselves. I know for sure that a 6'5" Pat Connaughton wasn't afraid to rebound last year.

Geben isn't playing because he has bricks for feet, and is unable to add any energy off the bench. He's literally just a big body at this point. Torres generates way more energy.

 

[irishfan]

We're lucky we get Wake this Wednesday and that their best player is suspended. We need a bounceback game if we're going to have any shot at a top-4 seed. Once again, Louisville can win the regular season, but they are not eligible for the ACC Tournament. We can pretty much kiss the ACC regular season title goodbye, barring ND finishing 4-0 and UNC/UVA each losing twice and Louisville finishing 3-1.

UNC: 11-3 (at NC State, at Virginia, vs. Syracuse, at Duke)
Miami: 10-4 (vs. Virginia, vs. Louisvile, at ND, at VT)
Virginia: 10-4 (at Miami, vs. UNC, at Clemson, vs. Louisville)
Louisville: 10-4 (at Pitt, at Miami, vs. GT, at Virginia)
Notre Dame: 9-5 (at Wake, at FSU, vs. Miami, vs. NC State)
Duke: 9-5 (vs. FSU, at Pitt, vs. Wake, vs. UNC)
Clemson: 9-6 (at GT, vs. UVA, at BC)
Pittsburgh: 8-6 (vs. Duke, at VT, at GT)
Syracuse: 8-7 (vs NC State, at UNC, at FSU)

It seems like there is a definite gap between the top-5 schools (not including Louisville) and the middle of the league. Really, just finishing in the top-4 would be huge, but it seems like there will be a big difference between finishing 3rd (and playing the 6 seed in the quarterfinals) and finishing 4th/5th and getting stuck playing a team like Duke or Miami in the quarterfinals. I think a 4-0 finish can get us a top-3 seed....but 3-1 and we seem likely to finish 5th.

 

[Kingbish01]

I got to see Jackson live and in person last night. He was head and shoulders the best player on the floor (ya, last shot was a terrible one) last night. I can see him being a big time PG in the NBA

 

[NDGOLDEN]

Stayed in top 25 somehow at 23 this week.

 

[irishfan]

Stayed in top 25 somehow at 23 this week.

Looks like we'd be #16 if we had won...too bad. Gotta get back on track this week.

 

[Irish#1]

Classic Mike Brey clock mismanagement. We had about 45 seconds left on our last possession. Two for one you ask? Nope... Just waste time, get a shitty shot and let them have the art possession.

No excuse for not going two for one. That's just poor clock recognition. I guarantee brey never even thought about two for one.

Never have been a fan of the two for one unless you have a layup or a wide open shot. Teams typically hurry the first one. I don't have any stats, but I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage of missed "first" shots on the two for one is way up there.

 

[dad4aa]

Never have been a fan of the two for one unless you have a layup or a wide open shot. Teams typically hurry the first one. I don't have any stats, but I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage of missed "first" shots on the two for one is way up there.

Not a fan of it either. Besides, had the team done a better job of clock management on the last four possessions and gotten better shots, this wouldn't have been an issue.

 

[irishfan]

Never have been a fan of the two for one unless you have a layup or a wide open shot. Teams typically hurry the first one. I don't have any stats, but I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage of missed "first" shots on the two for one is way up there.

Not a fan of it either. Besides, had the team done a better job of clock management on the last four possessions and gotten better shots, this wouldn't have been an issue.

Same. Especially with a 1-point lead. The last thing you want to see is DJ jacking a three early in the shot clock just so we can get an extra possession IMO. I know that would have worked better than our possession against GT, but hindsight is always 20/20.

There's other examples of where we've ran our normal offense and got a basket to close the game out. Vasturia's corner 3 against Duke last year at the end of the shot clock is a good example off the top of my head.

Brey calling timeouts and having us kill clock on offense was bad of course, but I don't think just going 2-for-1 is the answer either. I'd like to see us just run the normal offense. In that scenario, I just want a good look at the basket whether it's with 20, 10, or 2 seconds left on the shot clock.

 

[dad4aa]

Same. Especially with a 1-point lead. The last thing you want to see is DJ jacking a three early in the shot clock just so we can get an extra possession IMO. I know that would have worked better than our possession against GT, but hindsight is always 20/20.

There's other examples of where we've ran our normal offense and got a basket to close the game out. Vasturia's corner 3 against Duke last year at the end of the shot clock is a good example off the top of my head.

Brey calling timeouts and having us kill clock on offense was bad of course, but I don't think just going 2-for-1 is the answer either. I'd like to see us just run the normal offense. In that scenario, I just want a good look at the basket whether it's with 20, 10, or 2 seconds left on the shot clock.

This is what hurt IMO. One of the possessions, DJ did not start his drive to the basket until there was only 6 seconds left and he didn't get the shot off in time. The other he waited too long again and had to force an off balance shot. Why not run the clock down to 15 and make a move so you have time to pass it around instead of being 1 on 3. Grant did the same thing against Kentucky and had an off balance shot and a blocked shot in our last two possessions of that game.

 

[irishfan]

This is what hurt IMO. One of the possessions, DJ did not start his drive to the basket until there was only 6 seconds left and he didn't get the shot off in time. The other he waited too long again and had to force an off balance shot. Why not run the clock down to 15 and make a move so you have time to pass it around instead of being 1 on 3. Grant did the same thing against Kentucky and had an off balance shot and a blocked shot in our last two possessions of that game.

Yep. I was getting flashbacks as well. Oh well. Hopefully Brey learns this time.

 

[irishfan]

Miami beat Virginia tonight. Not really good news for us in regards to securing a spot in the top-4. Good news for anyone holding out a tiny bit of hope for finishing 1st in the ACC.

UNC: 11-3 (ND owns tiebreaker)
Miami: 11-4 (Miami currently owns tiebreaker, but teams meet one more time)
Louisville: 10-4 (not eligible for post-season, ND owns tiebreaker regardless)
Virginia: 10-5 (Virginia owns tiebreaker)
Notre Dame: 9-5
Duke: 9-5 (ND owns tiebreaker)
Clemson: 9-6 (ND owns tiebreaker)
Pittsburgh: 8-6 (Pitt owns tiebreaker)
Syracuse: 8-7 (Syracuse owns tiebreaker)

We actually have a somewhat realistic path to being ACC regular season champs if we finish 4-0. Assuming we finish 13-5 in conference (and take out Miami along the way), we would need UNC to lose 2 more games, Virginia to lose 1 more, and Louisville to lose 1 more. Miami losing an additional game wouldn't hurt, but I don't think it would be necessary for a tiebreaker.

 

[irishfan]

Favored by 7 tonight. Need a win to get back on track.

Also, GT beat Clemson last night which was good for us with seeding. Even if we collapse and finish 2-2, Clemson can't catch us anymore.

 

[RDU Irish]

What's the status of Zach? Saw the play where he hurt his knee and he came back in but then caught an article headline somewhere that makes me wonder if he is a go for tonight.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

What's the status of Zach? Saw the play where he hurt his knee and he came back in but then caught an article headline somewhere that makes me wonder if he is a go for tonight.

NDs bball twitter account posted a picture of him dunking. Assuming it's from today, I'll take that as a good sign.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Will this game be played today? Last I read there was no power in the arena or surrounding areas.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

Even tho we won by double digits this looked a lot worse. I hate these ugly wins against inferior teams especially without their best player out there. FSU game is screaming lose if we play like we have the past 2 games

 

[House16]

Even tho we won by double digits this looked a lot worse. I hate these ugly wins against inferior teams especially without their best player out there. FSU game is screaming lose if we play like we have the past 2 games

I hear you, but at the same time- road conference game. They're never ever ever easy. Take the W and move on. We're actually positioned really well for the double bye, which would hopefully give us some great momentum into the tourney. FSU is a big one, I'll bet we'll be favored. They also have a two game turnaround after playing Thursday, which helps us.

 

[JD Irish]

You have to take the win here and move on. Winning on the road in the ACC is tough. Wake Forest is not BC.