IE HOF Poll: Manti Te'o

[kmoose]

My whole beef with the performance on the field metric is how do you judge one player over another? Jaylon was a beast, won multiple performance awards, we may never see another linebacker as good as him. How do you compare him to a guy that isn't as athletically gifted and gives just as much effort? I'm not saying give the award to a 3rd stringer that never saw the field. The problem is there's a precedent already set for "Notre Dame Man" by people both off IE and on IE. Off IE people have given that title to people like Father Hesburgh, Danny Spond, TJ Jones, etc. On IE we've given it to players like Manti, Tommy Rees, Mathias Farley, players that either overcame some hardship or were the ultimate team player.

Perhaps the award should be called something else if we're focusing on the field performance now.

Why are you comparing one to another? There is no rule that says you have to choose A or B. You can choose BOTH A and B, if you want.

 

[NDPhilly]

arrowryan, CHIDomer9, dudexcore, NDPhilly, nsideirish, SoIll, Voltaire

Those fans.

I figured it'd be 99% so why not. Obviously Manti deserves to be in whatever hall of fame this is

 

[NDohio]

I figured it'd be 99% so why not. Obviously Manti deserves to be in whatever hall of fame this is

Are you a member of the Baseball Writers of America?

 

[woolybug25]

Which brings us back to why we need some agreed upon standard here. This is a Notre Dame Football message board, so I'd suggest that the only thing this community is competent to vote on is a standard that includes athletic achievement as a major component; which basically means we have to throw out Standard #2. If not, why limit "Notre Dame Man" to just football players? And as I mentioned above, the vast majority of us have never interacted with these guys personally, so we have no credible basis for trying to pass judgment on them as individuals.

Te'o is the most decorated defensive player in the history of the NCAA, and his leadership played a huge part in our undefeated 2012 season. I'll be the last one to suggest that off-field issues shouldn't affect the voting, but in Te'o's case, it would need to be a big f*cking deal to keep him out of IE's Hall of Fame given his unparalleled athletic achievements. And I don't see how the Kekua Affair can be fairly be said to rise to that level.

I think it's totally reasonable for someone to believe that lying about a fake girlfriend with cancer during a Heisman run is a "big f*cking deal"... lol. It also doesn't matter if you or I believe the saga rose to the level to disqualify him. That's why it's voted on. It's not our place to tell others that their opinion doesn't matter. We have every right to debate them on their opinion, but they have the right nonetheless. It doesn't make them any less of a fan or us any better of a fan. It's simply two different perspectives of history.

I know you're trippin', homie... when you start making statements regarding perceived character not mattering. haha

 

[ulukinatme]

arrowryan, CHIDomer9, dudexcore, NDPhilly, nsideirish, SoIll, Voltaire

Those fans.

Again, this is probably why the polls should be anonymous. If these guys want to explain their vote, let them choose to identify themselves rather than be labeled and raked over coals (Not what you did, phork, just making a point).

 

[gkIrish]

Again, this is probably why the polls should be anonymous. If these guys want to explain their vote, let them choose to identify themselves rather than be labeled and raked over coals (Not what you did, phork, just making a point).

We voted on this. The board has spoken.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I know you're trippin', homie... when you start making statements regarding perceived character not mattering. haha

Apologies to everyone if I came on a little strong there. As ND fans, Te'o gave us a lot; much more than we had any right to expect. And he left ND as one of our most decorated heroes. So it pains me to see some of our fans want to wash their hands of him due to the Kekua Affair-- wherein he was stalked and victimized by a mentally ill Trojan fan.

Based on what we know to date, any culpability he had in the scandal was minimal; so why are so many of us ready to disown him? I'd react similarly if some of my relatives tried to disown a cousin of mine after a minor f*ck-up caused our family some serious embarrassment. That's just not how you treat family.

He's not just one of our own, but one of our best. Te'o deserves better than this.

 

[ulukinatme]

Why are you comparing one to another? There is no rule that says you have to choose A or B. You can choose BOTH A and B, if you want.

It's been said that performance on the field is going to take preference over any other characteristics. That favors a player like Jaylon, who was phenomenal in his time here, while unsung heroes continue to sit in the shadows. Players like Jaylon have their Butkus awards, they hold records at ND, and they have or will have careers in the NFL. The unsung heroes are a footnote, mostly forgotten after graduation, but some have as much or more heart than the Jaylons of the team...they just aren't as athletically gifted. Whose fault is that, the Almighty?

Maybe some of these players only tallied 3/4 of the tackles of a Jaylon, or didn't catch quite as many TDs as Floyd, or ran for slightly less yards than Denson, etc. What was their effort level though, did they play with their heart on their sleeve? Were they leaders despite their limitations? Did they rise above those limitations and succeed? Were they exceptional team players? Did they give back to the community? Those were some of the players that were celebrated with the name "Notre Dame Man" prior to the voting process, and some of those guys won't likely make the cut if we're focusing on exceptional field performance going forward. Meanwhile, the players that have already been showered with trophies, titles, records, and contracts get richer. It is what it is I guess. I always thought Notre Dame Man referenced a different breed of individuals, exceptional people that put the needs of others before their own. It's an athletic thing now I guess.

 

[Luckylucci]

Apologies to everyone if I came on a little strong there. As ND fans, Te'o gave us a lot; much more than we had any right to respect. And he left ND as one of our most decorated heroes. So it pains me to see some of our fans want to wash their hands of him due to the Kekua Affair-- wherein he was stalked and victimized by a mentally ill Trojan fan.

Based on what we know to date, any culpability he had in the scandal was minimal; so why are so many of us ready to disown him? I'd react similarly if some of my relatives tried to disown a cousin of mine after a minor f*ck-up caused our family some serious embarrassment. That's just not how you treat family.

He's not just one of our own, but one of our best. Te'o deserves better than this.

Poor the man a beer!

 

[gkIrish]

It's been said that performance on the field is going to take preference over any other characteristics. That favors a player like Jaylon, who was phenomenal in his time here, while unsung heroes continue to sit in the shadows. Players like Jaylon have their Butkus awards, they hold records at ND, and they have or will have careers in the NFL. The unsung heroes are a footnote, mostly forgotten after graduation, but some have as much or more heart than the Jaylons of the team...they just aren't as athletically gifted. Whose fault is that, the Almighty?

Maybe some of these players only tallied 3/4 of the tackles of a Jaylon, or didn't catch quite as many TDs as Floyd, or ran for slightly less yards than Denson, etc. What was their effort level though, did they play with their heart on their sleeve? Were they leaders despite their limitations? Did they rise above those limitations and succeed? Were they exceptional team players? Did they give back to the community? Those were some of the players that were celebrated with the name "Notre Dame Man" prior to the voting process, and some of those guys won't likely make the cut if we're focusing on exceptional field performance going forward. Meanwhile, the players that have already been showered with trophies, titles, records, and contracts get richer. It is what it is I guess. I always thought Notre Dame Man referenced a different breed of individuals, exceptional people that put the needs of others before their own. It's an athletic thing now I guess.

You are making a case for them. That's what this is all about. I am personally not going to be voting for most players until I read the comments. Unless they are Manti Te'o lol.

 

[Irish YJ]

That just seems so out of character. The only way I can see that happening is if he's swamped and says something ridiculous like OK guys, I'm done with the cameras; now charging a hundred bucks each here----expecting no one to take him up on it and will leave him alone but then people do. Dude has no need of the money; the only reason he might do that is to get people to leave him alone so he can enjoy himself. That's not a bad thing.

I don't see it either, but people do surprise me now and then. He could have also sour'd a bit after the whole media thing, then likely a bunch of locker room shenanigans, etc... He may have even tried to express a dick / hard guy attitude after the whole thing just to get some street cred back.... Or, the chicks could have just been really homely...

My vote is yes for Manti...

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

I think it's totally reasonable for someone to believe that lying about a fake girlfriend with cancer during a Heisman run is a "big f*cking deal"... lol. It also doesn't matter if you or I believe the saga rose to the level to disqualify him. That's why it's voted on. It's not our place to tell others that their opinion doesn't matter. We have every right to debate them on their opinion, but they have the right nonetheless. It doesn't make them any less of a fan or us any better of a fan. It's simply two different perspectives of history.

I know you're trippin', homie... when you start making statements regarding perceived character not mattering. haha

When it comes to the whole situation, I thought something was fishy because at first, when the "deaths" during the MSU game, (his grandmother dying was real) was announced, they never called her his girlfriend, just someone who he was close with. The media got a hold of the story and ran with it, and while T'eo and ND never went out of their way to play it down, the story really took a life of its own.

 

[ulukinatme]

Again, this is probably why the polls should be anonymous. If these guys want to explain their vote, let them choose to identify themselves rather than be labeled and raked over coals (Not what you did, phork, just making a point).

We voted on this. The board has spoken.

Not even by a 2/3 majority though, that shit wouldn't fly in Congress! I'm just lookin' out for the minorities here. The ones that voted for transparent voting are the same ones calling out the minority for their voting choices. This is no democracy, good sir, if we tar and feather the misguided fools that wouldn't let Manti into this club. I'm asking for executive power (Or mods in this case) to veto the public voting bill...err...option.

 

[palinurus]

I can't wait for the "IE Hall of Fame: George Gipp -- Notre Dame Man?" thread.

 

[tadman95]

I voted yes. I don't like how he handled the girlfriend hoax. I think the story got away from him and yea, I think he played it a little, maybe even a lot. At the same time, as a 21-22 year old thrust into the national spotlight to the level he was, I'm not sure how I would have handled it.

As painful as it was for him, and for us as fans, he's a better person for it now. That's just an opinion, no fact.

In the end, I will vote based on my perception of the player at the end of their Notre Dame days. Have they come out of the experience believing and living the values and integrity Notre Dame embraces. Their athletic accomplishments will vary and will be a factor but my perception of his development and growth will be my bench mark.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I can't wait for the "IE Hall of Fame: George Gipp -- Notre Dame Man?" thread.

Didn't graduate. Disqualified!

 

[kmoose]

It's been said that performance on the field is going to take preference over any other characteristics. That favors a player like Jaylon, who was phenomenal in his time here, while unsung heroes continue to sit in the shadows.

I didn't take it that way at all. I took it to mean that they had to have made a contribution on the field, not that they had to be the best at their position, or even great at their position. Someone like Asaph Schwapp is a good example: His stats are atrocious, for a guy who played in 39 games in his career. He finished his ND career with 98 yards rushing, and 62 yards receiving. I wouldn't vote for him, even though I loved watching him play. On the other hand, Marc Edwards was nowhere near the greatest, or even one of the greatest, fullbacks at ND. His career numbers are: 1591 yards rushing, and 598 yards receiving. But I would vote for Edwards, because he epitomized a selfless player who was all about team. And, by all accounts, he was and is a solid person.

 

[palinurus]

Didn't graduate. Disqualified!

Ha!! I thought he might get a vote under the "died trying" exemption. Then we'll have to worry about the pool halls and carousing.

 

[NDohio]

It's been said that performance on the field is going to take preference over any other characteristics. That favors a player like Jaylon, who was phenomenal in his time here, while unsung heroes continue to sit in the shadows. Players like Jaylon have their Butkus awards, they hold records at ND, and they have or will have careers in the NFL. The unsung heroes are a footnote, mostly forgotten after graduation, but some have as much or more heart than the Jaylons of the team...they just aren't as athletically gifted. Whose fault is that, the Almighty?

Maybe some of these players only tallied 3/4 of the tackles of a Jaylon, or didn't catch quite as many TDs as Floyd, or ran for slightly less yards than Denson, etc. What was their effort level though, did they play with their heart on their sleeve? Were they leaders despite their limitations? Did they rise above those limitations and succeed? Were they exceptional team players? Did they give back to the community? Those were some of the players that were celebrated with the name "Notre Dame Man" prior to the voting process, and some of those guys won't likely make the cut if we're focusing on exceptional field performance going forward. Meanwhile, the players that have already been showered with trophies, titles, records, and contracts get richer. It is what it is I guess. I always thought Notre Dame Man referenced a different breed of individuals, exceptional people that put the needs of others before their own. It's an athletic thing now I guess.

If this is directed at me, you are completely misrepresenting my position My issue with your position was to choose James O over Jaylon S. IMO you are placing the off the field traits or the amount of effort/desire the player had AND the fact that they graduated over the actual accomplishments of a player. Of course the players with the most accolades are going to be the ones that should (IMO) receive the most votes - this is a Hall of Fame for football players on a football fan forum.

I do think there is a place for the athletes you are speaking about, but they need to be exceptional off the field and pretty darn good on the field.

Of course this is just my interpretation of what this is about - I appreciate hearing other sides of it too.

Next thing you know, all athletes will be receiving a participation trophy.

 

[fightingirish26]

Is there any way for future threads that we can not activate the poll for a period of time, say 24 hours, so that there can be real debate before everyone votes. I have a feeling a lot of people voted right away when they opened this thread and then posted their thoughts/read other people's thoughts afterwards.

 

[drayer54]

I voted no before seeing the outrage from the Yes crowd and was surprised to see it so slanted. I'm also surprised to see the incredible defense of Manti.

I wouldn't hold him in the same light as the guys I would consider top tier. I also hate to say it, but the girlfriend crap doesn't help. Fraud or whatever you want to call it; it was an embarrassment and a series of lies.

To me, a Notre Dame man is a guy whose mug you can stick on the wall and call them a symbol of the program or the university.

If you're going to call everyone a Notre Dame Man, then nobody is special. To me , his field performance doesn't outweigh the sideshow.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[drayer54]

Is there any way for future threads that we can not activate the poll for a period of time, say 24 hours, so that there can be real debate before everyone votes. I have a feeling a lot of people voted right away when they opened this thread and then posted their thoughts/read other people's thoughts afterwards.

So people's opinions get influenced by others first? I think it is best the other way.

 

[Irish Insanity]

So people's opinions get influenced by others first? I think it is best the other way.

Or for people to think more in to it than initial hear a name click yes or no. I read thru the thread for a bit before I voted and some of the posts in this thread provoked thoughts or consideration that wasn't initially there. Don't be so closed minded.

 

[GATTACA!]

Yes, easily.

 

[Luckylucci]

I think the 124 of us could kick the 10 of your asses, just sayin

 

[BeauBenken]

We voted on this. The board has spoken.

To be fair, there's a solid chance many people did not know what a public vote meant at the time of the vote. I believe it wasn't clarified for some posters until we already had 50 or more votes casted.

 

[woolybug25]

I think the 124 of us could kick the 10 of your asses, just sayin

Koon and Philly would start it off...

 

[gkIrish]

To be fair, there's a solid chance many people did not know what a public vote meant at the time of the vote. I believe it wasn't clarified for some posters until we already had 50 or more votes casted.

I think the only people complaining aren't even people who voted no.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

To be fair, there's a solid chance many people did not know what a public vote meant at the time of the vote. I believe it wasn't clarified for some posters until we already had 50 or more votes casted.

Too late, Beau. The stones are ready:

 

[BeauBenken]

I think the only people complaining aren't even people who voted no.

Why does that necessarily matter?