All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)

[NDohio]

Not even if they had to make a hard choice to protect her from her brother who worships the dark sided Vader? That is highly reasonable IMO. Especially if Luke failed with Ren and refused to teach Rey. There is no one left to teach her. Obviously Leia has not developed her powers AFAWK.

I am curious about the timing for this though. Rey and Ben are similar enough in age that I am not sure they would have been aware of his slide towards the dark side to abandon her at such a young age. They obviously sent Ben to Luke for his training - did they know then that he worshiped Darth? Would they attempt to grow his force abilities if they though the would then use it for the dark side? I just don't see it that way. Rey and Ben would have both been very, very young when they hid her away.

 

[Cackalacky]

The only way that makes any sense is if there is a big age difference between Ren and Rey. Rey would have been, what, 6 years old at best when she was "abandoned" ? Otherwise she would remember Han and/or Leia.... Kylo didn't turn to the dark side before puberty I'm guessing. He was probably 15 at best. So there would have to be a 10 year age gap for that to make any sense at all and I still doubt Han, Leia, and/or Kylo didn't recognize her at all.

I am curious about the timing for this though. Rey and Ben are similar enough in age that I am not sure they would have been aware of his slide towards the dark side to abandon her at such a young age. They obviously sent Ben to Luke for his training - did they know then that he worshiped Darth? Would they attempt to grow his force abilities if they though the would then use it for the dark side? I just don't see it that way. Rey and Ben would have both been very, very young when they hid her away.

These events occur 30 years after ROTJ.

Wookipedia has Ren being born 1 year after ROTJ and Rey being born 11 years after.

Also Ren supposedly killed all of the Jedi training with Luke. And he is looking for Luke specifically to kill him. He would definitely attempt to kill another force user, even if it were his sibling. I think 11 years is definitely big enough IMO.

 

[RDU Irish]

So again, why do people like Poe so much?

New Wedge - they won't be able to resist keeping him in small roll for three films. Wedge was the shit - Poe will be everything we wanted to see out of Wedge - including a Brooklyn accent apparently.

Did I have a Porkins sighting?

Definitely sounded like Han called him "Ben" in the big scene. Would make no sense to me to have his true name part of his Sith name.

Loved every minute of it. BB-8 was well done "pet" character.

wtf with being upset about C3POs red arm or Luke's Terminator arm? Obvious backstory openings there - would be dumber to think they were unblemished for 30 years since RTJ.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Poe Dameron is that perfect a**hole that your ex-girlfriend dumps you to be with.

Exactly. The kind that you sound petty for hating because he really is a pretty great guy and treats here better than you did.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Not even if they had to make a hard choice to protect her from her brother who worships the dark sided Vader? That is highly reasonable IMO. Especially if Luke failed with Ren and refused to teach Rey. There is no one left to teach her. Obviously Leia has not developed her powers AFAWK.

It just seems strange that Han and Leah both would play it so coy when they meet up, if that's the case.

 

[Cackalacky]

It just seems strange that Han and Leah both would play it so coy when they meet up, if that's the case.

I don't disagree with this feeling. I have it to. I am just spittballing and I have spent zero time on reddit or any other site except for wookipedia.

But I think its entirely possible they did not know her because she has been exiled under a different name?? for 11 years. it may have been much more clear at the end of the movie which is why she is the one to take the light saber to Luke. Also it is reasonable to me that they would want to protect her further by not spilling the beans until Luke can get involved with her, especially in light of what Ren has done.

 

[gkIrish]

These events occur 30 years after ROTJ.

Wookipedia has Ren being born 1 year after ROTJ and Rey being born 11 years after.

Also Ren supposedly killed all of the Jedi training with Luke. And he is looking for Luke specifically to kill him. He would definitely attempt to kill another force user, even if it were his sibling. I think 11 years is definitely big enough IMO.

Idk where they get those ages but assuming that's true he would have been 16 or so when all this went down. Seems too young.

And it still doesn't explain how no one recognizes her. And if they did recognize her and played it dumb that's even worse.

Rey = Descendant of Obi-Wan IMO or no one at all.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

(Spoilers) Force Awakens Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

(Spoilers) Force Awakens Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

I don't disagree with this feeling. I have it to. I am just spittballing and I have spent zero time on reddit or any other site except for wookipedia.

But I think its entirely possible they did not know her because she has been exiled under a different name?? for 11 years. it may have been much more clear at the end of the movie which is why she is the one to take the light saber to Luke. Also it is reasonable to me that they would want to protect her further by not spilling the beans until Luke can get involved with her, especially in light of what Ren has done.

And the Jedi mindset focuses on "destiny." It's not inconceivable the two children's destinies were felt by someone with the force, and based on past events (hiding kids from DV), it seemed reasonable to shuttle Rey away, knowing her destiny would bring her back into their lives when she was no longer in danger of being seduced by the dark side of the force and could defend herself. She's not going into Jedi training a hayseed like Luke was, she already has an edge to her, and intense preservation/survival skills.

Hell, forcing her to fend for herself may have been some sort of perverted Jedi training!

 

[gkIrish]

If Rey is Leia's child this is basically a reboot instead of a sequel. I didn't mind it for this first movie but if VIII is basically TESB I won't be happy.

 

[RDU Irish]

Obi Wan's love child is the way to go. Skywalkers are obviously a hot mess - Kenobi was the last good guy that stayed good and his granddaughter being super kick ass would be great retribution for failing with Anakin.

 

[Cackalacky]

Idk where they get those ages but assuming that's true he would have been 16 or so when all this went down. Seems too young.

From Pablo Hildalgo, Creative Executive LFG. He said Ren is around 29-30 in Episode VII. Also Rey's birthdate is provided in book published for the movie.

So if my math is correct: Ren is 29 -30 and therefore Rey is approximately 18-19 in Episode VII and was abandoned at the age of 5, making Ren 16 at this time. That is about the right age for someone to start exhibiting anger, rebelliousness, infatuation... Its totally reasonable to me. Obviously he would have been training with LUke for at least a few years prior to this and would likely not know much about what Rey looks like nor her whereabouts now, 11 years later.

And it still doesn't explain how no one recognizes her. And if they did recognize her and played it dumb that's even worse.

Rey = Descendant of Obi-Wan IMO or no one at all.

Who says no one recognized her? That was not explicitly stated and as greyhammer pointed out there are several indications that on some level Han and Leia knew who she was by the end of the movie.

Han knew the seer at the cantina who seemed very interested in Rey.

I don't know why people think Obi wan would have a child. I would love to know the reasoning behind this thought.

 

[greyhammer90]

I'm surprised no one here has said my biggest complaint with the film yet.

The flying was absurdly cartoonish.

Say what you will about the old movies not "holding up" most of the maneuvers and movements of the spacecraft felt like they were real. There was a weight and a limit to what they could do. They also took real damage and hitting something was very much a death sentence.

In this movie, the Millennium Falcon is apparently made out of Styrofoam. In the first scene alone it should've blown up five times. It's bouncing and ramming the ground going full speed and it looked like cartoon.

And don't get me started on the most casual "oh we're going to exit lightspeed within a few hundred feet of a planet" scene ever. To quote Han Solo, "travelling at hyperspeed ain't like dusting crops boy."

 

[Cackalacky]

I'm surprised no one here has said my biggest complaint with the film yet.

The flying was absurdly cartoonish.

Say what you will about the old movies not "holding up" most of the maneuvers and movements of the spacecraft felt like they were real. There was a weight and a limit to what they could do. They also took real damage and hitting something was very much a death sentence.

In this movie, the Millennium Falcon is apparently made out of Styrofoam. In the first scene alone it should've blown up five times. It's bouncing and ramming the ground going full speed and it looked like cartoon.

And don't get me started on the most casual "oh we're going to exit lightspeed within a few hundred feet of a planet" scene ever. To quote Han Solo, "travelling at hyperspeed ain't like dusting crops boy."

These are the kind of picked nits that make me not enjoy discussing movies.

1. Wow factor for kids
2. willing suspension of disbelief still exists.
3. Of course if anyone in the Star Wars galaxy can approach a planet surface at light speed the person who made the Kessel run in 12 parsec could do it.

 

[RDU Irish]

These are the kind of picked nits that make me not enjoy discussing movies.

1. Wow factor for kids
2. willing suspension of disbelief still exists.
3. Of course if anyone in the Star Wars galaxy can approach a planet surface at light speed the person who made the Kessel run in 12 parsec could do it.

Not 14!

 

[greyhammer90]

These are the kind of picked nits that make me not enjoy action movies.

Of course if anyone in the galaxy can approach a planet surface at light speed the person who made the Kessel run in 12 parsec could do it.

The Kessel run had nothing to do with Hans flying ability. It was a straight shot run where he got close to some black holes but the Falcon was fast enough to get away from the gravitational pull. (Not technically still Canon but still).

It's not really a "nit pick" to me. It actually insults my intelligence that something travelling beyond the speed of light can be hand timed to show up within a football field distance. I know Star Wars is space fantasy but their has always been at least a semblance of realism with how these craft work.

 

[johnnycando]

Yeah no shit Siskell and fucking Ebert mother fuckers up in here.

Why don't all the geniuses drop their day jobs and direct movies?

Lucas don't know shit.

Also:

Rey might be Leia's and Jabba the Hut's love child!!!

Bwahahaha

You know he stuck it amirite?

 

[IrishLion]

Speaking of unrealistic flying, I liked Poe so much because (1) dat black X-Wing tho and (2) his maneuvers when the X-Wings showed up to save the day at Maz's place.

I got jacked up when the X-Wings were flying low and kicking up the water, bringing a wall of doom upon the First Order. I got even more jacked up when Poe started wrecking shit.

 

[Cackalacky]

The Kessel run had nothing to do with Hans flying ability. It was a straight shot run where he got close to some black holes but the Falcon was fast enough to get away from the gravitational pull. (Not technically still Canon but still).

It's not really a "nit pick" to me. It actually insults my intelligence that something travelling beyond the speed of light can be hand timed to show up within a football field distance. I know Star Wars is space fantasy but their has always been at least a semblance of realism with how these craft work.

The danger in the Kessel Run was that it passed by black holes. The reason it was dangerous was that it took skill to get as close to them as possible without getting pulled in which means that Han was able to make it faster than anyone else because he flew closest to the hazards and did not get pulled in. I am not savy enough in lore to say it was as straight shot but it is known that the Kessel Run was dangerous even for spice smugglers. Plus, a parsec is a distance not time so from the get go that is erroneous on Lucas' part. But with that in mind and the parsec being equated to time in Star Wars, everything else follows.

Thats fine if you want to be turned off by Han stopping hyperdrive within the atmosphere of a large planetoid, even though it has been shown numerous times that ships fall out of light speed relatively controlled and at desired speeds. You understand that this movie needs to satisfy a crowd of all ages right? I rarely scoff at action sequences, especially in space fantasies. Plus JJ takes liberties with sci fi phenomenon (see Star Trek II). I expect similar in the upcoming movies. Its not surprising, to me at least.

IMO, its important to keep in mind that this movie series HAS to satisfy an age bracket that includes 6 -75 year olds, globally, to be considered successful for how much the Mouse King has invested. Its not a Rembrandt, more like a Norman Rockwell.

 

[Cackalacky]

Speaking of unrealistic flying, I liked Poe so much because (1) dat black X-Wing tho and (2) his maneuvers when the X-Wings showed up to save the day at Maz's place.

I got jacked up when the X-Wings were flying low and kicking up the water, bringing a wall of doom upon the First Order. I got even more jacked up when Poe started wrecking shit.

+1000. That sweeping shot over the lake was great. Poe dominating 6 TIE Fighters was sweet.

 

[IrishLax]

I always thought parsec was a measure of distance not time. I've never understood the 12 parsecs thing.

 

[gkIrish]

Random notes;

1) It has been confirmed that Benecio Del Toro will be in Episode VIII.

2) I keep forgetting we will have Rogue One to satisfy us before May 2017. The cast looks amazing (Felicity Jones, Mads Mikkelson, Alan Tudyk, & Forrest Whitaker among others). I think the premise is super cool (stealing the plans for the death star) and maybe some of those characters will appear in the main story eventually.

 

[Cackalacky]

I always thought parsec was a measure of distance not time. I've never understood the 12 parsecs thing.

It is a distance. But Lucas uses it as a period of time.

 

[IrishLax]

It is a distance. But Lucas uses it as a period of time.

Explain.

 

[nlroma1o]

So heres my one question after seeing the movie. Is there a chance that Finn might also have some smidge of Force sensitivity? He was able to use the lightsaber without injuring himself, and it was long ago established, that lightsabers were such a difficult weapon to handle, that only Force sensitive users could wield it effectively. So, does this mean Finn might also have a Force awakening inside of him?

 

[IrishLion]

Perhaps when Han brags about it, he means that he found a shorter route to make the run, rather than a shorter time?

Like he told the computer to never tell him the odds, and took a dangerous route that had risks like obstacles and whatnot. So he took a shorter route than anyone else had been able to.

 

[Cackalacky]

First coined in 1913 by British astronomer Herbert Hall Turner, the term “parsec” is a portmanteau of “parallax” and “second,” and is defined as the distance from the Sun to an object that has a one-arcsecond (1⁄3,600 of a degree) parallax. What this awesome-to-say description really means is that if you were to draw a straight line between an object and the Earth, and a straight line between the object and the Sun, if the angle between the lines is one-arcsecond, then the object is one parsec away — or 3.26 light-years.

The problem with the Kessel Run claim is the fact that Han says the line as an answer to a question about speed. Obi-Wan says he is looking for passage on a fast ship. Han asks, “Fast ship? You’ve never heard of the Millennium Falcon?” Obi-Wan replies, “Should I have?” Then Han says the famous line, “It’s the ship that made the Kessel Run is less than twelve parsecs.” A parsec is a unit of distance, and distance is distance. You drive 60 miles; it could take you three hours if you go 20mph or one hour if you go 60mph, but you still travel 60 miles. Speed is determined by the relationship between time and distance. Again, without knowing how much time it took Han to complete the Kessel Run, the comment is an attribute to his navigating skills and not the performance of the ship. If Han has said, “It’s the ship that made the Kessel Run in 11.7 parsecs in 3 days,” then the speed the Millennium Falcon could be determined, giving Obi-Wan an actual answer to his inquiry.

Taken by itself and not as an answer to a question about speed, the claim about traveling the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs is not a ridiculous statement. There are many different routes to Kessel, and each route is a different distance. It is like when you use Google maps, and you are given three suggested routes from your location to the destination. If Han took the most dangerous course, then he could have made the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs. However, using this boast as an answer about speed is the source of the problem. Han could have been trying to test Obi-Wan and Luke, gaging their response. The more informed the passenger, the less of a price hike he could get away with. Or the line could be an example of poor writing by George Lucas. All Lucas needed to have added is time. With just one extra detail, then the debate about the line could have been avoided.

I personally think it is one of the misunderstood physics phenomenon like when people think light years are speeds adn not distances and the Lucas misunderstood or did not care.

 

[greyhammer90]

I'm well aware of the Kessel run and what it entailed (pre-canon retroactively being disregarded). If I recall correctly the Jedi Search Trilogy makes it pretty clear that it was simply a straight shot around some blackholes. Han just went closer than anyone else had, but the Falcon was fast enough to "outrun" the gravitational pull and didn't get sucked in. Regardless, this is all getting a bit more in the weeds than I intended, that was only one scene I had an issue with. The overall point is that the flying was cartoonish and silly for the most part.

IMO, its important to keep in mind that this movie series HAS to satisfy an age bracket that includes 6 -75 year olds, globally, to be considered successful for how much the Mouse King has invested. Its not a Rembrandt, more like a Norman Rockwell.

The issue I have with this argument is that it implies that making it more ridiculous or cartoonish is the only way to make flight exciting or that this was more exciting than the alternative. Kids don't need to see the Millennium Falcon bounce off the ground 18 times to be excited, and it certainly hurts the excitement for the adults because it instantly pulls you out of it.

Watch the asteroid field scene in Empire for reference. There are parts of that scene that still make my butt clench because you knew (from watching the other TIE fighters attempt it) that if they even grazed one rock they were goners. In the movie I watched last night the Falcon would've bounced around like a pinball machine and Finn would've made a joke. Sure that's OK for the kids, but the original worked just as well... and it was better for adults too.

Also, if you have a movie like this and attempt to "pull punches" with the excuse of "it's for kids", you are making a big long term mistake IMO.

 

[Cackalacky]

Perhaps when Han brags about it, he means that he found a shorter route to make the run, rather than a shorter time?

Like he told the computer to never tell him the odds, and took a dangerous route that had risks like obstacles and whatnot. So he took a shorter route than anyone else had been able to.

Again, he uses it in reference to answering a question about speed. It is a distance.

Question: How fast can you get us to the train station.
Answer: I have made it there before in 10 miles.

Makes no sense.

 

[Cackalacky]

I'm well aware of the Kessel run and what it entailed (pre-canon retroactively being disregarded). If I recall correctly the Jedi Search Trilogy makes it pretty clear that it was simply a straight shot around some blackholes. Han just went closer than anyone else had, but the Falcon was fast enough to "outrun" the gravitational pull and didn't get sucked in. Regardless, this is all getting a bit more in the weeds than I intended, that was only one scene I had an issue with. The overall point is that the flying was cartoonish and silly for the most part.



The issue I have with this argument is that it implies that making it more ridiculous or cartoonish is the only way to make flight exciting or that this was more exciting than the alternative. Kids don't need to see the Millennium Falcon bounce off the ground 18 times to be excited, and it certainly hurts the excitement for the adults because it instantly pulls you out of it.

Watch the asteroid field scene in Empire for reference. There are parts of that scene that still make my butt clench because you knew (from watching the other TIE fighters attempt it) that if they even grazed one rock they were goners. In the movie I watched last night the Falcon would've bounced around like a pinball machine and Finn would've made a joke. Sure that's OK for the kids, but the original worked just as well... and it was better for adults too.

Also, if you have a movie like this and attempt to "pull punches" with the excuse of "it's for kids", you are making a big long term mistake IMO.

And this not what I don't want to do. I don't enjoy debating minutae of an otherwise entertaining movie that my whole family enjoyed. That is fine if other people want to disect the director's intent or lack thereof in having the Millenium Falcon plow through sand dunes. I mean my love of the original trilogy was not based on the illogicalness of the death star destroying Alderaan and then hotfooting over to Yavin where it has to sync its orbit before destroying the Rebel base. Why not just come out of light speed further out like the did with Alderaan and blow Yavin II up?

 

[Domina Nostra]

Again, he uses it in reference to answering a question about speed. It is a distance.

Question: How fast can you get us to the train station.
Answer: I have made it there before in 10 miles.

Makes no sense.

A) maybe they use the term differently because of the physics of hyperspace
B) maybe Han talks out of his ass from time to time.