2016 Presidential Horse Race

[pkt77242]

I think that Cruz is confused about what Carpet Bombing means.

 

[pkt77242]

Republican debate: CNN's Reality Check team inspects the claims - CNNPolitics.com

 

[GoIrish41]

I think that Cruz is confused about what Carpet Bombing means.

I think he's confused about a lot of things.

 

[Goldedommer44]

Republican debate: CNN's Reality Check team inspects the claims - CNNPolitics.com

That is so funny that Christy is planning on talking to a dead guy!!!!

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Amen, brother. I would seriously vote for that dude. Every comment he makes on today's workforce is right on point.

You would vote for Bernie?

I took it as he would vote for Mike Rowe.

 

[woolybug25]

You would vote for Bernie?

I was talking about Rowe.

Republican debate: CNN's Reality Check team inspects the claims - CNNPolitics.com

I watched the debate and thought the entire time that a lot of what they were saying was simply factually incorrect. Seems like that is indeed the case. But in this election cycle... why let a silly thing like truth or fact checking get in the way? lol

 

[Armyirish47]

Bernie Sanders tweeted: At the end of the day, providing a path to go to college is a helluva lot cheaper than putting people on a path to jail

Mike Rowe -- of Dirty Jobs fame -- had this to say and I especially agree with the bolded:


We need to stop stigmatizing "blue collar" work. We also need to stop with the idea that everyone should go to college just for the sake of saying they did.

I don't think he was stigmatizing "blue collar" work, I think he was just acknowledging the costs to society of an educated vs. an uneducated workforce in the Information Age, though that is certainly a difficult concept to express in 140 characters without numerous emojis.

We also need to acknowledge that "college" as a term covers much more than a 4 year liberal arts degree, and as such absolutely SHOULD be pursued by everyone, not for the sake of saying they did but to gain the necessary skills to weld, work in construction, be an office manager, etc. Though that idea probably isn't very popular on a web site with a fan base who looks down on virtually any education that doesn't come from one particular school (insert smiley face emoji)

 

[RDU Irish]

U.S. on verge of lifting 40-year oil export ban in spending bill | Reuters

Any Qs on this (long over due) legislation? Political purposes of exporting (economic pressure on Saudis and Russia) seems to strongly favor this to help overcome the hand wringers who will do anything to prohibit oil production anywhere.

Along the same lines - the repatriation of overseas profits baffles me. There is consensus publicly to end this self destructive policy but I suspect the Goldman Sachs of the world lobby to continue the mess so they can play I-banker to those needing to do creative financing while they keep their cash parked over seas.

 

[RDU Irish]

and yes - Mike Rowe should really be the spokesperson for proper career placement and re-train the entire population of high school guidance counselors. Education is a life long pursuit - not a four year accomplishment. Hard work over a false sense of entitlement will get people a lot further in life.

 

[kmoose]

I don't think he was stigmatizing "blue collar" work, I think he was just acknowledging the costs to society of an educated vs. an uneducated workforce in the Information Age, though that is certainly a difficult concept to express in 140 characters without numerous emojis.

We also need to acknowledge that "college" as a term covers much more than a 4 year liberal arts degree, and as such absolutely SHOULD be pursued by everyone, not for the sake of saying they did but to gain the necessary skills to weld, work in construction, be an office manager, etc. Though that idea probably isn't very popular on a web site with a fan base who looks down on virtually any education that doesn't come from one particular school (insert smiley face emoji)

The problem is that the politicians keep equating "educated" to "college". The two are not the same. You have an MOS; you're educated. I had an NEC in the Navy; I'm educated. And that's exactly the point that I think Mike Rowe was trying to make: Instead of just talking about college, as if that is a "one size fits all" solution, why not start talking about, and supporting, some of these alternative means of education? There are literally thousands of training schools for different skills in this country: MMI, Tulsa Welding School, numerous Able Bodied Seaman schools.... the list goes on and on. But how often do you hear about them, unless (like MMI and Tulsa Welding School) they advertise on TV? Start making it more well known, as an alternative to the regular college route.

 

[wizards8507]

The scariest moment of the debate last night is that Donald Trump didn't know what the nuclear triad is.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

The problem is that the politicians keep equating "educated" to "college". The two are not the same. You have an MOS; you're educated. I had an NEC in the Navy; I'm educated. And that's exactly the point that I think Mike Rowe was trying to make: Instead of just talking about college, as if that is a "one size fits all" solution, why not start talking about, and supporting, some of these alternative means of education? There are literally thousands of training schools for different skills in this country: MMI, Tulsa Welding School, numerous Able Bodied Seaman schools.... the list goes on and on. But how often do you hear about them, unless (like MMI and Tulsa Welding School) they advertise on TV? Start making it more well known, as an alternative to the regular college route.

Obama has been very vocal in his support for vocational schools. He's requested a lot of funding from congress to support students attending alternative routes.

 

[RDU Irish]

Go to welding school and you are making more in two years than over half of the college crowd in four. You will never be unemployed and you can pick up some equipment to make good money on the side in your spare time. Do underwater welding and make more than most pediatricians - without a ten year education plan costing hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[wizards8507]

Obama has been very vocal in his support for vocational schools. He's requested a lot of funding from congress to support students attending alternative routes.

I don't think this particular issue is very relevant when it comes to whether the president supports it from a policy standpoint or not. It's more about the national attitude towards higher education. It starts with parents and teachers. For specific programs, those are best implemented at the state and local level and in the private sector.

 

[kmoose]

Go to welding school and you are making more in two years than over half of the college crowd in four. You will never be unemployed and you can pick up some equipment to make good money on the side in your spare time. Do underwater welding and make more than most pediatricians - without a ten year education plan costing hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Become a merchant seaman and you will see more of the world in your first 2 years than most people will in a lifetime. And you will make decent money, doing it. Hang on long enough and you will make damn good money, and have plenty of time off to enjoy it. There are literally thousands of alternatives to college.....

 

[IrishLax]

I don't think he was stigmatizing "blue collar" work, I think he was just acknowledging the costs to society of an educated vs. an uneducated workforce in the Information Age, though that is certainly a difficult concept to express in 140 characters without numerous emojis.

We also need to acknowledge that "college" as a term covers much more than a 4 year liberal arts degree, and as such absolutely SHOULD be pursued by everyone, not for the sake of saying they did but to gain the necessary skills to weld, work in construction, be an office manager, etc. Though that idea probably isn't very popular on a web site with a fan base who looks down on virtually any education that doesn't come from one particular school (insert smiley face emoji)

In the end, this is pretty much Mike Rowe's point. Education and training are vital... but they also come in many different forms. People are now pushed towards the "you must have a 4-year degree" track, which is counter-productive for society as a whole.

Rowe admits that's it's hard to get depth and context from Sanders' tweet, because it's only 140 characters. But the very clear surface implication is that "if you're not on a track to college, then you're on a track to prison"... which is a rather defamatory and inaccurate idea to be propagating.

 

[RDU Irish]

I don't think this particular issue is very relevant when it comes to whether the president supports it from a policy standpoint or not. It's more about the national attitude towards higher education. It starts with parents and teachers. For specific programs, those are best implemented at the state and local level and in the private sector.

Just like kids picking up tons of college credits before leaving High School, they should be half enrolled in a trade program before graduating HS. TV today has to help, watching shows like Dirty Jobs, Blue Collar Millionaire, etc should help open kids eyes to the vast potential out there beyond flipping burgers forever.

 

[kmoose]

Rowe admits that's it's hard to get depth and context from Sanders' tweet, because it's only 140 characters. But the very clear surface implication is that "if you're not on a track to college, then you're on a track to prison"...

Unless you have white privilege, of course. Don't forget that.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I don't think this particular issue is very relevant when it comes to whether the president supports it from a policy standpoint or not. It's more about the national attitude towards higher education. It starts with parents and teachers. For specific programs, those are best implemented at the state and local level and in the private sector.

Well, Rowe was responding to a Sanders, who is running for president. And Moose said this (paraphrasing what he thought Rowe was saying):

: Instead of just talking about college, as if that is a "one size fits all" solution, why not start talking about, and supporting, some of these alternative means of education?

The president has used the bully pulpit to do just that. But we can certainly have an conversation about the best way to implement those things.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

On another note, I'm now convinced more than ever that Donald Trump's candidacy is simply a long piece of performance art.

 

[RDU Irish]

Well, Rowe was responding to a Sanders, who is running for president. And Moose said this (paraphrasing what he thought Rowe was saying):



The president has used the bully pulpit to do just that. But we can certainly have an conversation about the best way to implement those things.

Yeah, don't you remember that speech in Ferguson where he encouraged youths to put down their guns and become merchant seamen? Or that speech in Chicago addressing the ridiculous homicide rates and incarceration rates of the black community where he encouraged them to stop selling drugs and go learn to weld? He has really done all he can.

 

[NDohio]

Could a Rubio/Kasich ticket pull off an upset by potentially taking two huge toss up states in Fla and Ohio potentially out of the equation? Granted I have not followed this election very closely but those would be two huge states for electoral results.

I would be really curious as to whether Kasich would help carry Ohio. I don't think he would get re-elected as Governor. He is hated by pretty much every union in OH(he has ticked off the teachers, police and fireman, and the manufacturing unions) at this point and that is a large majority of the state.

 

[kmoose]

Yeah, don't you remember that speech in Ferguson where he encouraged youths to put down their guns and become merchant seamen? Or that speech in Chicago addressing the ridiculous homicide rates and incarceration rates of the black community where he encouraged them to stop selling drugs and go learn to weld? He has really done all he can.

Sanders gave a speech in Ferguson?

 

[pkt77242]

Just like kids picking up tons of college credits before leaving High School, they should be half enrolled in a trade program before graduating HS. TV today has to help, watching shows like Dirty Jobs, Blue Collar Millionaire, etc should help open kids eyes to the vast potential out there beyond flipping burgers forever.

Stop stealing my ideas. I have said previously in the politics thread that high schools should sit down kids and their parents before their senior year (or even junior year) and have an honest conversation about the child's future and present to them different options such as going to college, going to learn a trade (plumbing, electrical, welding, etc.), and if no future education, then maybe a job placement firm so they can get some work experience during the summer and after school.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Yeah, don't you remember that speech in Ferguson where he encouraged youths to put down their guns and become merchant seamen? Or that speech in Chicago addressing the ridiculous homicide rates and incarceration rates of the black community where he encouraged them to stop selling drugs and go learn to weld? He has really done all he can.

Not sure how any of that relates.

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/cs...45/Screen_Shot_2015-12-14_at_1.54.54_PM.0.png

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/27/obama-defends-college-remarks/?_r=0

Obama Administration Pledges Funds for Apprenticeships, Vocational School - Washington Wire - WSJ

Obama Administration Awards Nearly $500 Million in First Round of Grants to Community Colleges for Job Training and Workforce Development | U.S. Department of Education

 

[kmoose]

Stop stealing my ideas. I have said previously in the politics thread that high schools should sit down kids and their parents before their senior year (or even junior year) and have an honest conversation about the child's future and present to them different options such as going to college, going to learn a trade (plumbing, electrical, welding, etc.), and if no future education, then maybe a job placement firm so they can get some work experience during the summer and after school.

No offense, but in modern society, I can just see the result of that being:

"It's YOUR job to prepare my son/daughter for college. It's not BOBBY'S fault that you aren't doing YOUR job. My taxes pay your salary, so don't you come in here and tell me that my child may not be on the path to the stellar greatness that I envision for them!!"

 

[Armyirish47]

In the end, this is pretty much Mike Rowe's point. Education and training are vital... but they also come in many different forms. People are now pushed towards the "you must have a 4-year degree" track, which is counter-productive for society as a whole.

Rowe admits that's it's hard to get depth and context from Sanders' tweet, because it's only 140 characters. But the very clear surface implication is that "if you're not on a track to college, then you're on a track to prison"... which is a rather defamatory and inaccurate idea to be propagating.

Yeah, I think they are probably much closer to agreement as well if this discussion had taken place at a debate or long form discussion.

I just don't take the implication as an either/or proposition from Sanders, rather an acknowledgment that investment in our workforce early on is more cost effective than "rehabilitation" on the back end. The common refrain about why individuals turn to crime is that they couldn't find a job (or some would say too lazy of course), but if we can refocus our education system on getting everyone onto track for college in the broader sense, and making it affordable, we can make dents in the much ballyhood "school to prison pipeline". That's what I took his implication to be at least.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Though that idea probably isn't very popular on a web site with a fan base who looks down on virtually any education that doesn't come from one particular school (insert smiley face emoji)

Excuse me? Would you care to substantiate that insult by linking to an IE post wherein an ND fan runs down "virtually any education that doesn't come from" ND? Or should I assume you're just a troll?

 

[NDRock]

No offense, but it modern society, I can just see the result of that being:

"It's YOUR job to prepare my son/daughter for college. It's not BOBBY'S fault that you aren't doing YOUR job. My taxes pay your salary, so don't you come in here and tell me that my child may not be on the path to the stellar greatness that I envision for them!!"

Exactly.

 

[IrishLax]

On another note, I'm now convinced more than ever that Donald Trump's candidacy is simply a long piece of performance art.

I've been convinced for months that he is either 1) trolling for fun, because he has nothing better to do 2) trolling specifically to guarantee that his pal Hillary Clinton gets elected.

Either way, he has effectively killed the perception of the Republican for at least a decade, and has possibly destroyed it altogether.