Mike Sanford Jr. To WKU

[greyhammer90]

Sure is. Also highly unlikely to be called the best assistant coach in the country at 32 years old. Special talent = toss your list of guidelines out the window and make an ad hoc assessment.

And your ad hoc assessment is still likely to result in an admission that he's not the most qualified for the position.

 

[ThePiombino]

If he's willing to stick around for 3-5 years as HCiW, then I'd be OK with it. Plenty of time to see it all and learn from one of the best "GMs" in the biz by then.

No way he waits that long, though. Highly doubt BK is around that long to tutor him either.

 

[koonja]

And your ad hoc assessment is still likely to result in an admission that he's not the most qualified for the position.

Remind me never to go into business with you bond buying, 2% return type sissy boys. I want winners that see talent and act on it.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Remind me never to go into business with you bond buying, 2% return type sissy boys. I want winners that see talent and act on it.

ITT, we learn that Koon prefers ludes and fraud to ethical business practices.

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[military_irish]

Has Notre Dame ever had a coach in their 30's in the last 50+ years?

 

[gkIrish]

Koon---

Can you describe what Sanford's job actually is? In other words, what does he do on a daily basis?

 

[koonja]

Koon---

Can you describe what Sanford's job actually is? In other words, what does he do on a daily basis?

No but in 2-3 years when BK is ready to roll out I'll have a damn good idea of how good Sanford is.

 

[gkIrish]

No but in 2-3 years when BK is ready to roll out I'll have a damn good idea of how good Sanford is.

I just find it odd that you are taking such a strong position on a guy and you can't even describe his duties (and neither can anyone else).

 

[koonja]

I just find it odd that you are taking such a strong position on a guy and you can't even describe his duties (and neither can anyone else).

I've never said he should be the next HC here. But if he's all he's cracked up to be, considered by many the best assistant in football with 30 years ahead of him, QU guru and recruiting expert (not to mention extremely familiar with ND and knowledge of what it takes to be the HC after watching BK do it for 2 years right down the hall from him), how on earth can you be so narrow minded to say 'nope, can't do it, don't care how great he is, didn't have title as HC, will not consider'.

 

[wizards8507]

But if he's a coordinator in two or three years but hasn't been learning how to build/run/operate a program and make his own hires for an ENTIRE football staff, then no, you want to try to get a more proven commodity first.

But nobody is going to be a proven commodity when it comes to being the head coach at Notre Dame, which is a unique beast in and of itself. I'd argue that being the offensive coordinator and assistant head coach at Notre Dame is better training to be the head coach at Notre Dame than being the head coach at Cincinnati or Grand Valley State.

In other words, I'd rather take a shot on a proven coordinator with ND experience than a proven head coach with no ND experience.

I've never said he should be the next HC here.

If Swarbrick holds a presser tomorrow and says Kelly is going to the NFL and Sanford is the new head coach, I'll be dancing in the streets of Bristol. Y'all are free to join me.

 

[koonja]

But nobody is going to be a proven commodity when it comes to being the head coach at Notre Dame, which is a unique beast in and of itself. I'd argue that being the offensive coordinator and assistant head coach at Notre Dame is better training to be the head coach at Notre Dame than being the head coach at Cincinnati or Grand Valley State.

In other words, I'd rather take a shot on a proven coordinator with ND experience than a proven head coach with no ND experience.

Why think outside the box?

 

[IrishLion]

But nobody is going to be a proven commodity when it comes to being the head coach at Notre Dame, which is a unique beast in and of itself. I'd argue that being the offensive coordinator and assistant head coach at Notre Dame is better training to be the head coach at Notre Dame than being the head coach at Cincinnati or Grand Valley State.

In other words, I'd rather take a shot on a proven coordinator with ND experience than a proven head coach with no ND experience.

This is a good way to look at it, but I'd still rather look at a guy (in the right position) that has experience running an entire program. Being a coordinator at ND helps with learning the ND-related/*special* things, but I'd personally prefer a guy that has experience running an entire program and doing the plethora of OTHER things.

It's easier to learn how to deal with academic requirements and ND-centric boosters than it is to learn how to be in charge of everything, like building a competent coaching staff, managing players/GA's, building a recruiting board, etc. etc.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Koon---

Can you describe what Sanford's job actually is? In other words, what does he do on a daily basis?

That itself is an issue to me. You bring in a highly sought after guy, and nobody knows what he actually does 1 year in to his time here.

 

[koonja]

2017:

Sanford leaves for the Utah job because we were stuck in our old ways. Has wild success, wins 9 games in 2018, 11 games year 2019. ND kicks its tires around with it's 59 year old coach who helped bring consistency at North Carolina. Doesn't get us into the playoffs, but wins enough to keep us afloat. USC job opens up in 2019, Sanford takes it at 37 years old, wins 5 titles in the next 20 years. ND job opens up in 2021, and there's speculation that Sanford will take it, but everyone knows you don't leave a top 10 job for a top 5 job, so we always talk about what could have been while getting dominated by Sanford's elite talent with progressive QB play.

 

[ulukinatme]

Has Notre Dame ever had a coach in their 30's in the last 50+ years?

Ara was the youngest at 41. Davie was the next at 43. The rest fall somewhere in the 40s-50s range mostly, but none in their 30s.

As far as coaches farther back than 50 years, you actually find most were in their 30s when they started, especially the farther you go back. The first was Joe Kuharich at 42 years old. Terry Brennan was actually 25 when he took over as head coach in '54, he fared better than Joe did. Going backwards, Hugh Devore took over for a year before Ara came, but he was 35 when he took over as interim coach for Leahy during the war. Edward McKeever was 34, he had just one season though. Leahy was 33. Layden was 31. Anderson was 33. Rockne was just 30. Harper was 30. I'm not going back any farther than that.

 

[wizards8507]

It's easier to learn how to deal with academic requirements and ND-centric boosters than it is to learn how to be in charge of everything, like building a competent coaching staff, managing players/GA's, building a recruiting board, etc. etc.

You really think so? I'll use a workplace analogy. If I'm trying to fill a Finance Manager position for The Walt Disney Company, I'd much rather promote a Senior Financial Analyst from within Disney than to hire a Finance Manager from Verizon.

 

[koonja]

You really think so? I'll use a workplace analogy. If I'm trying to fill a Finance Manager position for The Walt Disney Company, I'd much rather promote a Senior Financial Analyst from within Disney than to hire a Finance Manager from Verizon.

That a shot at me? I brought my gloves today.

 

[Irish Insanity]

As far as Sanford and no HC experience vs others we may have a shot at. Name a dude you think would come here today if BK left, that would walk in and be highly successful. Someone who you know would take the job.
I'd be in for a young, energetic, family man, dedicated to his job, dedicated to success , all day long. If you can't name an elite coach we WOULD get to replace BK, take a calculated risk with Sanford. Success will be attached to his name for years to come.

 

[koonja]

2017:

Sanford leaves for the Utah job because we were stuck in our old ways. Has wild success, wins 9 games in 2018, 11 games year 2019. ND kicks its tires around with it's 59 year old coach who helped bring consistency at North Carolina. Doesn't get us into the playoffs, but wins enough to keep us afloat. USC job opens up in 2019, Sanford takes it at 37 years old, wins 5 titles in the next 20 years. ND job opens up in 2021, and there's speculation that Sanford will take it, but everyone knows you don't leave a top 10 job for a top 5 job, so we always talk about what could have been while getting dominated by Sanford's elite talent with progressive QB play.

Bumping this for the inevitable 'told you so' in 5 years.

 

[MNIrishman]

I've never said he should be the next HC here. But if he's all he's cracked up to be, considered by many the best assistant in football with 30 years ahead of him, QU guru and recruiting expert (not to mention extremely familiar with ND and knowledge of what it takes to be the HC after watching BK do it for 2 years right down the hall from him), how on earth can you be so narrow minded to say 'nope, can't do it, don't care how great he is, didn't have title as HC, will not consider'.

Look up Tim Brewster, another gifted assistant who had issues in the big chair (and it wasn't even that big of a chair. More of a lawn chair, really.)

 

[koonja]

Look up Tim Brewster, another gifted assistant who had issues in the big chair (and it wasn't even that big of a chair. More of a lawn chair, really.)

We can find examples on both sides of the fence. Dabo Sweeney and Chip Kelly turned out to be great hires from within without experience.

 

[IrishLion]

You really think so? I'll use a workplace analogy. If I'm trying to fill a Finance Manager position for The Walt Disney Company, I'd much rather promote a Senior Financial Analyst from within Disney than to hire a Finance Manager from Verizon.

I think that's apples and oranges.

If you're coming to be the HC at ND, your first order of business is to win football games, followed closely by graduating your players. It's easier to win football games when you know how to build your team and you have experience being in charge of all aspects. Learning how to deal with academic requirements and shaking hands with the right boosters is VERY important, but those things won't matter if you can't build a program that wins on the field first and foremost. And a guy with HC experience is more likely to win games on the field immediately, than a guy that has no experience.

Again, I think it's easier for a HC to build a program and learn about the ND admin while he's at it, than it is for an assistant to learn all of the different things it might take to build his own program (of course, this depends on the assistant. My argument answers Koon's premise of hiring an assistant with no experience at ND aside from coaching a position group).

 

[zelezo vlk]

As far as Sanford and no HC experience vs others we may have a shot at. Name a dude you think would come here today if BK left, that would walk in and be highly successful. Someone who you know would take the job.
I'd be in for a young, energetic, family man, dedicated to his job, dedicated to success , all day long. If you can't name an elite coach we WOULD get to replace BK, take a calculated risk with Sanford. Success will be attached to his name for years to come.

Sanford would of course take the job because it's a huge promotion. Would you not take a job offer to be CEO of a Fortune 500 company, complete with golden parachute? The coaching search should be easier this time around. BK has the cupboard pretty well stocked.

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[ulukinatme]

I've never said he should be the next HC here. But if he's all he's cracked up to be, considered by many the best assistant in football with 30 years ahead of him, QU guru and recruiting expert (not to mention extremely familiar with ND and knowledge of what it takes to be the HC after watching BK do it for 2 years right down the hall from him), how on earth can you be so narrow minded to say 'nope, can't do it, don't care how great he is, didn't have title as HC, will not consider'.

Koon has a point here. Sanford could be our next Bob Davie waiting in the wings, why should we pass on that opportunity to find a hire from the outside?

I kid. I don't really feel strongly one way or the other. I think Sanford can be groomed to be a HC, to an extent. There's no replacement for on the job experience and training, but I think BK could adequately prepare him for the job given 3-4 years of tutelage. Ultimately I think the call should be up to Swarbrick though, even if Sanford is in training to take over.

 

[koonja]

I think that's apples and oranges.

If you're coming to be the HC at ND, your first order of business is to win football games, followed closely by graduating your players. It's easier to win football games when you know how to build your team and you have experience being in charge of all aspects. Learning how to deal with academic requirements and shaking hands with the right boosters is VERY important, but those things won't matter if you can't build a program that wins on the field first and foremost.

And someone who's never worked at ND for a day would know that better than Sanford with 3 years experience? I disagree 100%.

 

[military_irish]

Ara was the youngest at 41. Davie was the next at 43. The rest fall somewhere in the 40s-50s range mostly, but none in their 30s.

As far as coaches farther back than 50 years, you actually find most were in their 30s when they started, especially the farther you go back. The first was Joe Kuharich at 42 years old. Terry Brennan was actually 25 when he took over as head coach in '54, he fared better than Joe did. Going backwards, Hugh Devore took over for a year before Ara came, but he was 35 when he took over as interim coach for Leahy during the war. Edward McKeever was 34, he had just one season though. Leahy was 33. Layden was 31. Anderson was 33. Rockne was just 30. Harper was 30. I'm not going back any farther than that.

So, basically, if Notre Dame were to hire Sanford as head coach within the next 5 years. It would be the first time in over 50 years that they have hired a head coach in their 30's. As intriguing as it sounds and I would not be opposed to it. I don't know if Notre Dame would pull the trigger unless like mentioned earlier. Sanford increases his role and gains a better understanding of being a head coach and not just a head coach but the head coach of the University of Notre Dame. Many have tried, few have succeeded.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Sanford would of course take the job because it's a huge promotion. Would you not take a job offer to be CEO of a Fortune 500 company, complete with golden parachute? The coaching search should be easier this time around. BK has the cupboard pretty well stocked.

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That wasn't the question. The question was is there another guy with experience that we know would take the job and walk in and be successful right away.

 

[IrishLion]

And someone who's never worked at ND for a day would know that better than Sanford with 3 years experience? I disagree 100%.

What?

Someone who has BUILT THEIR OWN PROGRAM AS A HEAD COACH will know how to do that better than a guy like Sanford, who hasn't done anything like that yet.

 

[Irish Insanity]

What?

Someone who has BUILT THEIR OWN PROGRAM AS A HEAD COACH will know how to do that better than a guy like Sanford, who hasn't done anything like that yet.

Who fits in that category tho, that we know would take the job and be successful. Honest question, not being a dick.

 

[wizards8507]

What?

Someone who has BUILT THEIR OWN PROGRAM AS A HEAD COACH will know how to do that better than a guy like Sanford, who hasn't done anything like that yet.

Yeah but building a program isn't a ground-up proposition. The Notre Dame football program is not in ruins. The program is built. I'd rather the next guy be someone who's going to continue the good things we have going for us than try to tear it down to build up his way. There's value in continuity.

Who fits in that category tho, that we know would take the job and be successful. Honest question, not being a dick.

That's a good point, too. Anyone who'd be available is either unproven at anything approaching a blue-chip program, or is unemployed because he got fired.