Probability of BK getting JSmith & KRussell to stay

[irish4ever]

KVR should stay for his own benefit... Won't be a first rounder. Needs to strengthen his stock in a big way. IMO, draft stock dropped a ton this year.

Jaylon will be a top 10 guy, and should go, especially if he is on track for his degree.

I agree. KVR should come back IF he can. He has things to shore up prior to the pros (being out last yr. and then getting injured this yr.). Jaylon, though I would love to see him back in an Irish uniform next yr., he has too much to lose IF he's projected to be a top 10-15 pick.

 

[pkt77242]

The only reason I see Fuller possibly coming back is because his problems with drops are going to wreck his stock. That being said, you can teach hands but you can't teach speed, and maybe he'll figure a team will be willing to take a chance on him after such an explosive year.

I put 0% faith in anything a player says before the deadline to declare. Elliot got reamed for saying he was going to leave Ohio State before the season was over, and rightly so. ND guys are smart enough to keep the focus on the season while the season is still going.

edit to clarify: I 100% believe that Fuller believed he was staying when he made that comment. It was mid-season, things were going well, he was focused on making the playoffs. Once the season is over, he'll sit down and reevaluate. Like Lax said, part of Kelly's job is to make him think about it.

The NFL sometimes gets caught up on other things (speed) and downplays drops. See Troy Williamson and Breshad Perriman as perfect examples.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

The NFL sometimes gets caught up on other things (speed) and downplays drops. See Troy Williamson and Breshad Perriman as perfect examples.

I think the Raiders drafted a player who was the fastest at their position at the combine for a decade straight.

 

[Cpnd1]

Wait isn't Jaylon suppose to announce he is staying at the banquet during his acceptance speech for defensive player of the year. Then immediately after Caleb Kelly will announce his commitment to ND? That's how this is suppose to go down right?

 

[gkIrish]

Wait isn't Jaylon suppose to announce he is staying at the banquet during his acceptance speech for defensive player of the year. Then immediately after Caleb Kelly will announce his commitment to ND? That's how this is suppose to go down right?

 

[pkt77242]

I think the Raiders drafted a player who was the fastest at their position at the combine for a decade straight.

Darius Hewyard-Bey.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

The NFL sometimes gets caught up on other things (speed) and downplays drops. See Troy Williamson and Breshad Perriman as perfect examples.

As a Bears fan, I still giggle at Trow Williamson. Then I think of Shea Mcclellin...

 

[Irish#1]

I get the whole insurance thing, but hate the idea of it. What kind of loser would never work as an adult because at the age of 22 they got hurt playing football?

A degree should be considered the real insurance, and that can be obtained at any age. Go pro when you can, take in that cash, and then get the diploma after if the cash runs out. Don't be Al Bundy.....

An insurance payout wouldn't preclude you from working. It would be more of a supplement to whatever you earned in a regular job.

IMO....
Jaylon is gone. He'll go top ten. Hope he pulls a Manti.
Fuller is gone. Although he could use another year to work on the hands.
Russell don't know, but should stay. As IYJ said, he's stock took a huge drop this year.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Probability of BK getting JSmith & KRussell to stay

As a Bears fan, I still giggle at Trow Williamson. Then I think of Shea Mcclellin...

And Kevin White in a another year. Too soon?????

 

[IrishJayhawk]

And Kevin White in a another year. Too soon?????

I view Kevin White as being a second #1 draft pick next year. I still think he'll be good.

But I'll stop talking about the Bears here.

 

[NDdomer2]

Jaylon Smith - 0% chance he returns

KVR - 0% chance he returns

Fuller - 50% chance he returns

 

[IrishinSyria]

Not necessarily with Jaylon. It seems safe to stay to avoid an injury, but there is a big difference in how much he can make by staying. Let's say he leaves this year and is the #10 pick. He would lose out on nearly $10 million if he is able to up his draft stock to being a top-3 pick.

Todd Gurley was the 10th pick and got a 4-year deal for $13,823,183 with $9,376,550 guaranteed.

Dante Fowler was the 3rd pick and got a 4-year deal for $23,490,253 with it fully guaranteed.

I just don't see what he has left to prove. He's widely acknowledged to be one of the best LBs in the country. He probably could stand to gain 10 lbs or something, but he'd be better positioned to do that in the NFL where his entire life would revolve around getting ready for football. He could come back and have a monster season, but I don't think that would really improve his stock.

 

[GoldenDomer]

I guess I'm not seeing what KVR sees in himself.

 

[NewBrunswickIrish]

Darius Hewyard-Bey.

I think this comparison will be a very real fear for general managers and knock Fuller out of the first round.

 

[pkt77242]

I think this comparison will be a very real fear for general managers and knock Fuller out of the first round.

It is a horrible comparison. DHB wasn't very good in college, go look at his stats. Will Fuller has had a great college career.

 

[TheChosen1]

I'm with lax. I'd be surprised is fuller is back.

 

[NDRock]

Jaylon Smith - 0% chance he returns

KVR - 0% chance he returns

Fuller - 50% chance he returns

This I agree with.

 

[pkt77242]

Jaylon Smith - 0% chance he returns

KVR - 0% chance he returns

Fuller - 50% chance he returns

Jaylon 10%

KVR 5% (really this number depends on two probabilities, the chance that he would be allowed to return, and if he wants to return).

Fuller 20%

 

[Guest]

I think Fuller has the most to work on before moving to the NFL. He hasn't shown a lot of versatility in his routes (is this perception or reality and also whose fault is it?) and he drops too many balls. While that doesn't mean he cannot improve, he is likely a second round pick this year. He stands to gain a lot by staying and working himself into the first round.

I think KVR is a potential first round talent but was rusty and a prima donna this year prematurely. That being said, I have no doubt he could go into the NFL right now and become a very good CB.

Jaylon, he gone.

 

[pkt77242]

I think Fuller has the most to work on before moving to the NFL. He hasn't shown a lot of versatility in his routes (is this perception or reality and also whose fault is it?) and he drops too many balls. While that doesn't mean he cannot improve, he is likely a second round pick this year. He stands to gain a lot by staying and working himself into the first round.

I think KVR is a potential first round talent but was rusty and a prima donna this year prematurely. That being said, I have no doubt he could go into the NFL right now and become a very good CB.

Jaylon, he gone.

Fuller has really good technique. Notre Dame football's Will Fuller has Irish in playoff hunt - College Football - SI.com

His drops are worrisome but I think he is a late first round to mid second round pick. He probably won't ever be a high first round pick due to his size.

 

[GoIrish41]

Fuller has really good technique. Notre Dame football's Will Fuller has Irish in playoff hunt - College Football - SI.com

His drops are worrisome but I think he is a late first round to mid second round pick. He probably won't ever be a high first round pick due to his size.

There is usually a little first round run on WRs. I could see him slipping into the top 20 or 25 picks if things happen right on day 1. Next year I hope!

 

[IrishLax]

Will Fuller is DeSean Jackson with slightly worse (measurable) speed and a much better head on his shoulders (willing blocker, etc)

 

[The Polish Irishman]

I believe ISD said KVR may not have the option to comeback. If he is able to, he should be move to safety. I think he has a higher ceiling at safety than CB.

Jaylon is gone. As good as he is, I am not sure he will be a great pro. He relies to much on being a great athlete. I cant remember a game where he made a play to turn it around.

Fuller is gone. He will be a Desean Jackson type in the NFL. Late 2nd or early 3rd.

 

[Guest]

Fuller has really good technique. Notre Dame football's Will Fuller has Irish in playoff hunt - College Football - SI.com

His drops are worrisome but I think he is a late first round to mid second round pick. He probably won't ever be a high first round pick due to his size.

I have read that article and it is a good one. However, I still wouldn't draft him in the first because I want my #1 receiver there who can run multiple routes and doesn't disappear for stretches. This perception I have of him, however, could be due to the way the ND staff has depoyed him. I think Fuller is a good second receiver and primarily a vertical threat. But I am also not an NFL GM either

 

[Guest]

I believe ISD said KVR may not have the option to comeback. If he is able to, he should be move to safety. I think he has a higher ceiling at safety than CB.

Jaylon is gone. As good as he is, I am not sure he will be a great pro. He relies to much on being a great athlete. I cant remember a game where he made a play to turn it around.

Fuller is gone. He will be a Desean Jackson type in the NFL. Late 2nd or early 3rd.

If he goes to FS, he could be really good. He has good speed and size and isn't on an island with potentially better WRs all the time.

 

[NewBrunswickIrish]

It is a horrible comparison. DHB wasn't very good in college, go look at his stats. Will Fuller has had a great college career.

He was good enough in college to be projected to go in the first round by many analysts, just like Fuller. He led his team in receiving every year he was there. Comparing stats is lazy without looking at talent around him, scheme and play calling. Sure DHB may not be the best comparison but what other recent first rounder has the same main strength (speed) and same main question mark (hands)? Desean Jackson is probably a better comparison (thanks LAX) but would you draft a Jackson type player in the first round?

 

[pkt77242]

He was good enough in college to be projected to go in the first round by many analysts, just like Fuller. He led his team in receiving every year he was there. Comparing stats is lazy without looking at talent around him, scheme and play calling. Sure DHB may not be the best comparison but what other recent first rounder has the same main strength (speed) and same main question mark (hands)? Desean Jackson is probably a better comparison (thanks LAX) but would you draft a Jackson type player in the first round?

At the end of the first round I would take a DeSean Jackson type player (with character mind you), if WR was a need for the team. I don't think that Will Fuller is top 10 or top 15 pick but I could definitely see him going between 25-40 based off of a teams need.

ETA: Also many people thought that DHB was a reach in the top 10. He should never have been picked that high.

Oakland Raiders surprise some with selection of Darrius Heyward-Bey

 

[NewBrunswickIrish]

At the end of the first round I would take a DeSean Jackson type player (with character mind you), if WR was a need for the team. I don't think that Will Fuller is top 10 or top 15 pick but I could definitely see him going between 25-40 based off of a teams need.

ETA: Also many people thought that DHB was a reach in the top 10. He should never have been picked that high.

Oakland Raiders surprise some with selection of Darrius Heyward-Bey

He definitely was a reach in the top ten but he was still considered by many to be first round worthy much like Fuller, that's all I'm saying. I hope we don't find out this year whether Fuller is a first rounder (hoping he comes back).

I'm probably a bit influenced by the fact that my favourite team (Steelers) has been able to find very good/productive WRs in the third round or later consistently and so I'm not a fan of taking WRs in the first round especially if they have a question mark with something like their hands.

 

[stlnd01]

A degree should be considered the real insurance, and that can be obtained at any age. Go pro when you can, take in that cash, and then get the diploma after if the cash runs out. Don't be Al Bundy.....

Easier said than done. A quick bit of research (and perhaps I'm missing someone) suggests that the only ND players since the start of the Weis era who left early for the NFL and have come back and earned their degree are Clausen and Darius Walker.
With that plus Kelly's track record and the general culture of the program, I'm not sure why everyone thinks any of these guys - and especially Fuller - are such a lock to leave.

 

[Bugzly21]

1. People should not count on Will Fuller staying. The reporter sort of backed him into a corner with a really premature question. In f act, I'd strongly bet he declares.

2. It's not Kelly's job to talk anyone into staying if it's against their best interest. I don't want him pitching Jaylon to stay just to stay, I want them to have an honest conversation and see where that goes. That's how things went with Floyd, Manti, Martin, Stanley, etc. they presented all of the facts (in those cases, why it made sense for them to come for draft stock and such) and it worked out great for all of them. If the facts say Jaylon is near his peak of draft stock, than he should leave unless he - personally - values other goals.

3. I'm not sure KVR has the option to return.

There's truth to that. I said in the post game thread I was talking with his dad at half time about how awesome it was he was coming back. His response wasn't positive. He didn't say yes or no but his body language spoke volumes