2016 Presidential Horse Race

[JughedJones]

I hope he wins too. That way President Obama will see what real gridlock looks like and he'll realize that his problems with Congress had nothing to do with race.

You want Socialism? Watch Star Trek. Everybody lives in a scripted utopia and it only lasts an hour.

wot?

 

[BobbyMac]

wot?

Wot wot?

 

[JughedJones]

Wot wot?

what type of well running society can you name that didn't rely on socialist principals?

I bet you can't think of one.

 

[BobbyMac]

what type of well running society can you name that didn't rely on socialist principals?

I bet you can't think of one.

You'll have to due better than that. That's like me asking you name me one well running communist society that didn't rely on capitalist principals.

Bernie is a whole different level of socialism.

 

[JughedJones]

I didn't say "communist", you dullard.

Name one society since the Enlightenment that's run +successfully+ without socialist principals.

Spoiler alert: You can't

 

[magogian]

what type of well running society can you name that didn't rely on socialist principals?

I bet you can't think of one.

I don't think you know what socialism is.

Perhaps you mean democratic socialism?

 

[JughedJones]

I don't think you know what socialism is.

Perhaps you mean democratic socialism?

"a social and economic system characterized by social ownership and control of the means of production as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system."

However, we live in a society characterized by nuance.


Every good society you consider an ally is socialist. Including us.

Nixon, Reagan, Eisenhower, T.Roosevelt, they all knew it.

 

[Goldedommer44]

I'm sorry, but every time is see Ted Cruz all I want to do is punch him in the face!!!!!!!!

 

[Buster Bluth]

I'm sorry, but every time is see Ted Cruz all I want to do is punch him in the face!!!!!!!!

Cruz vs Clinton would just be the worst in that regard.

 

[NDPhilly]

I'm team Rubio now. The rest suck (more).

I've been team Rubio since the last debate. Wish he was a little more experienced but think he's probably the best choice. Even if he doesnt win this go around I think he's destined to be president one day.

 

[GATTACA!]

I'm sorry, but every time is see Ted Cruz all I want to do is punch him in the face!!!!!!!!

Oh come on this face? I can't see why?

 

[NDohio]

Oh come on this face? I can't see why?

Most shocking revelation last night? This guy is only 44 years old.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

If Jesus was one of the current campaigners (Democrat or Republican), who would he most be like?

 

[Wild Bill]

If Jesus was one of the current campaigners (Democrat or Republican), who would he most be like?

Easy. Bernie. Both Jewish.

 

[kmoose]

If Jesus was one of the current campaigners (Democrat or Republican), who would he most be like?

Wouldn't he most be like Jesus?

 

[wizards8507]

If Jesus was one of the current campaigners (Democrat or Republican), who would he most be like?

Probably Ben Carson, the only one who doesn't appear to actually want to be president.

Least like: Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton

 

[ACamp1900]

I missed it last night... but I heard some stuff from Rubio, if I had to pick someone right now I'm still leaning towards Kasich but I'd be more than okay with Rubio considering all the other options (on both sides)...

 

[wizards8507]

I missed it last night... but I heard some stuff from Rubio, if I had to pick someone right now I'm still leaning towards Kasich but I'd be more than okay with Rubio considering all the other options (on both sides)...

Kasich was legitimately terrible last night. Lied many times. Defended corporate welfare. Used hard left talking points against the rest of the candidates, including the meme that entitlement reform is the intellectual equivalent of pushing senior citizens over a cliff.

 

[RDU Irish]

Carson and Trump were ineffective most of the night, and both got caught in contradictions by the mods.

Fiorina's explanation about her biz record was weak.

Christy's faux tough guy schtick is silly.

Kasich was better as the adult on stage and looked desperate and mean spirited on the attack.

Jeb might as well be invisible.

Huckabee is not going to be president. Focus on the diseases that cost the most seems to lack much humanity.

Cruz ... Goof sound bite candidate who comes off as completely insincere. Plus he looks like Eddie Munster. several posters on IE could explain his positions more effectively than he does.

Rand s a terrible candidate.

Moderators were terrible ... Not just because the questions were loaded (they often were). but disorganized and sloppy. Still, someone needs to tell the candidates that the media isn't running and they should debate those who are.

Great comments. Not laced in your usual complete disdain for all things elephant. Good to see someone on the other side of the spectrum felt as strongly about the crap job by moderators as me.

Moderator being unable to back up their source when Trump called them out was classic. Doesn't matter that they came back after the break with something, he won the point even if he was being willfully ignorant. I thought Carson was agile enough in response to the attempt to pin him to some company, using the crowd response to completely dismiss it the "gotcha!" attempt. Yeah, the guy is a famous neurosurgeon who speaks at a lot of places for money. Where is the question of Hillary's speaking engagements accusing her of implied endorsements?

Disagree on Fiorina - I thought she did very well with the HP question. Her comparison to HP and government was excellent and discussion off CEO accountability versus politicians should have left a positive impression with most. The smiling comment at the beginning was funny, but she proceeded to look pissed the rest of the night.

Rubio liquidating his IRA/retirement account was a very fringe issue. I think the basis of the question has some merit but the presentation was horrible and a debate format not appropriate since 95% of listeners don't understand wtf they are talking about. His answer was excellent though, really hammered home his modest roots and connection with middle class America.

Overall, infinitely more entertaining than the Dem debate. Really need to get Huckabee, Cruz and Paul off the stage (and I really like Paul's positions). Kasich, needs to go too - he would be high on my list of advisors or even VP but really not going to win the popularity contest known as POTUS election.

 

[ACamp1900]

Kasich was legitimately terrible last night. Lied many times. Defended corporate welfare. Used hard left talking points against the rest of the candidates, including the meme that entitlement reform is the intellectual equivalent of pushing senior citizens over a cliff.

My wife is involved in the community and such and has some very involved Republican 'friends' we met all of them at an event a couple weeks ago and I mentioned I favor Kasich, I became an instant pariah... haha... but then I just reminded myself that they all favored Trump and I felt much better about not being 'included'.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Great comments. Not laced in your usual complete disdain for all things elephant. Good to see someone on the other side of the spectrum felt as strongly about the crap job by moderators as me.

Moderator being unable to back up their source when Trump called them out was classic. Doesn't matter that they came back after the break with something, he won the point even if he was being willfully ignorant. I thought Carson was agile enough in response to the attempt to pin him to some company, using the crowd response to completely dismiss it the "gotcha!" attempt. Yeah, the guy is a famous neurosurgeon who speaks at a lot of places for money. Where is the question of Hillary's speaking engagements accusing her of implied endorsements?

Disagree on Fiorina - I thought she did very well with the HP question. Her comparison to HP and government was excellent and discussion off CEO accountability versus politicians should have left a positive impression with most. The smiling comment at the beginning was funny, but she proceeded to look pissed the rest of the night.

Rubio liquidating his IRA/retirement account was a very fringe issue. I think the basis of the question has some merit but the presentation was horrible and a debate format not appropriate since 95% of listeners don't understand wtf they are talking about. His answer was excellent though, really hammered home his modest roots and connection with middle class America.

Overall, infinitely more entertaining than the Dem debate. Really need to get Huckabee, Cruz and Paul off the stage (and I really like Paul's positions). Kasich, needs to go too - he would be high on my list of advisors or even VP but really not going to win the popularity contest known as POTUS election.

Wait, debates are supposed to be entertaining? I was always under the impression that they were to be informative and constructive, not entertaining and destructive.

But I suppose that it makes sense that a weak-minded Republican voter would find these candidates to be entertaining, they are led by a reality show star after all.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Probably Ben Carson, the only one who doesn't appear to actually want to be president.

Least like: Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton

Jesus would remove Medicare/Medicaid?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Wouldn't he most be like Jesus?

My question was purposefully intended to be a hypothetical thought experiment. My apologies if you were unable to pick up on that.

 

[RDU Irish]

Wait, debates are supposed to be entertaining? I was always under the impression that they were to be informative and constructive, not entertaining and destructive.

But I suppose that it makes sense that a weak-minded Republican voter would find these candidates to be entertaining, they are led by a reality show star after all.

Yep, Obama won on substance. OK, boss.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Yep, Obama won on substance. OK, boss.

I'm by no means defending Obama, or any of the democrats.

I'm calling out our broken political system in general, as well as the media that fuels their egos.

Clearly, the media has found a way to create revenue off of this political process, but in order to optimize the revenue from the debates, they need viewers. In order to gain the attention of the standard American TV viewer, they need to dumb it down intellectually (since American's are turned off by "know-it-alls") and create drama.

This results in candidates being chosen that American's "would like to have a beer with" instead of the candidates that are actually the best person from the job. It is absolutely disgusting that our political system is a popularity contest, based on speaking ability, "toughness", physical appearances, ethnicity, religiosity, and other worthless metrics).

 

[wizards8507]

Jesus would remove Medicare/Medicaid?

1. Replacing Medicare and Medicaid with individual-owned savings accounts would allow people to make their own health decisions (treating them like adults, imagine that) and they'd be able to afford far superior coverage to what they're currently getting.

2. "Help the poor" is not the same as "confiscate money by force of law and use that money to help the poor." You do see the difference there, don't you? Each of us has a moral calling to do charity. When I write a check to Notre Dame, that's charity. When the federal government confiscates money from my paycheck, that is not charity.

 

[kmoose]

I'm calling out our broken political system in general, as well as the media that fuels their egos.

Yeah, because "weak minded Republican voter" is a sure sign of non-partisan thinking.

Gotcha, skippy!

 

[pkt77242]

1. Replacing Medicare and Medicaid with individual-owned savings accounts would allow people to make their own health decisions (treating them like adults, imagine that) and they'd be able to afford far superior coverage to what they're currently getting.

2. "Help the poor" is not the same as "confiscate money by force of law and use that money to help the poor." You do see the difference there, don't you? Each of us has a moral calling to do charity. When I write a check to Notre Dame, that's charity. When the federal government confiscates money from my paycheck, that is not charity.

This is debatable. Lets take Carson's plan. He wants to get rid of medicare and medicaid and give everyone $2000 in an HSA. Tell me how that is going to work? How would a poor person get health coverage? $2000 a year is surely not going to pay for it. How would an elderly person living on SS get an insurance plan?

I think that SS and Medicare/Medicaid need to have some changes (raising retirement age for most workers, means testing, etc.) but an idea like Carson's screws over older people/poor people.

ETA: How does a plan like that help people who would normally get Medicaid/Medicare?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Yeah, because "weak minded Republican voter" is a sure sign of non-partisan thinking.

Gotcha, skippy!

That comment was in reply to the "entertaining" Republican debate. In which, I was specifically referring to the popcorn eating, entertainment needing, Republicans that enjoyed it. Of course there are Democrats that are equally. I would assume that the percentage of uneducated voters is probably equal for parties.

Once again, I am taking no sides for any candidate or any party.

I'm simply here to say, the metrics (as I've mentioned before) that are used by average (or below average) Americans to determine their "favorite" candidate is extraordinarily misguided.

Our country is full of misguided and/or uneducated voters. The type of people that watch the debates as a sort of "popcorn eating sports match" for entertainment value, are not actually voting for the right reasons. They are voting based on poor "metrics" and subconscious qualitative descriptions that they "believe", which are actually assigned to the candidates from the media and "experts" that are biased towards candidates for personal/financial motives (ala: CNN's love for Hillary).

This country needs a political revolution, and I'm not referring to a Bernie Sanders type of revolution (although some of his objectives are completely justifiable).

We need people to care more about the issues, I mean deeply care. I'm not talking about "I do care about the global warming!!" (cliche example of a political issue). I'm talking about, "I care about Global Warming, but I realize some of the byproducts of this 'political issue' are a necessary evil, so we shouldn't scrap it all together, but instead find ways to alleviate some of the environmental burden over time."

We need to think deeper about candidates (where is their money from, what do those donators support?). We must realize, the people we vote for are not people running based on their own beliefs. They're running out of interest of their investors.

We need to think deeper about our personal priorities (do I really need a daily car and a sports car?). We must realize, even though I work hard to splurge on unnecessary goods, I should definitely be willing to sacrifice my income for government programs that help others that are working hard and getting nowhere.

We need to stop thinking as individuals, and begin thinking as a whole.

 

[wizards8507]

This is debatable. Lets take Carson's plan. He wants to get rid of medicare and medicaid and give everyone $2000 in an HSA. Tell me how that is going to work? How would a poor person get health coverage? $2000 a year is surely not going to pay for it. How would an elderly person living on SS get an insurance plan?

ETA: How does a plan like that help people who would normally get Medicaid/Medicare?

I'm not an expert on Dr. Carson's plan and I'm not endorsing it, but as I understand it:

The $2,000 would accumulate every year from cradle-to-grave. So all the years you're a child on your parents' plan and all the years you're in an employer-sponsored plan, that money would accumulate and grow. For someone who is otherwise covered (and assuming a modest 5% return), the fund would grow to $56,000 by age 18 and over $1 million by age 68. That's more than enough to cover day-to-day medical expenses and to purchase a "catastrophic care" policy.

We need to stop thinking as individuals, and begin thinking as a whole.

Except we are individuals. "Thinking" occurs in one's brain. There's no "collective" brain that can think. Society is nothing more than a bunch of individuals gathered all together.