Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[Wild Bill]

Here's my point:

Schmidt was a walk-on. Riggs was a 5th year transfer. Jones was an underclassman.

The fact that we had to rely on guys that can be categorized as "walk-on," "5th year transfer" and "underclassman" is a failure in either recruiting or development or ________ (i.e. failure to keep kids academically qualified).

In other words, we lost 2 guys that we were supposed to rely on in 2014 when they were recruited back in ~2011. All the other failures (transfers away from ND, loss to the NFL) limited our depth so much that we could not recover.

Ultimately there was a failure somewhere along the way when losing 2 upperclassmen on scholarship caused the ship to sink.

C'mon. Every team plugs roster holes due to failure to develop or recruit, even bama. It's part of the game. BK just has to do it with one arm tied behind his back b/c he can't take a JUCO kid.

 

[gkIrish]

C'mon. Every team plugs roster holes due to failure to develop or recruit, even bama. It's part of the game. BK just has to do it with one arm tied behind his back b/c he can't take a JUCO kid.

We were plugging in holes for guys that should never have started in the first place.

Brian Kelly's plan was surely not to start a walk-on at MLB 4 years into his tenure, was it?

Seriously...when he was laying out his plan in 2010, was "luck into a smart walk-on with average physical tools to run my entire defense" part of the plan???

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

We were plugging in holes for guys that should never have started in the first place.

Brian Kelly's plan was surely not to start a walk-on at MLB 4 years into his tenure, was it?

Seriously...when he was laying out his plan in 2010, was "luck into a smart walk-on with average physical tools to run my entire defense" part of the plan???

He probably had that bulleted right next to have "Have my best WR, All-American CB, and a DL that I plan to rely on heavily get suspended for the entire year for academic violations prior to game 1 of the season" which was bulleted right under "Have my incumbent starting QB get suspended for the year for academic violations on the heels of reaching National Championship"

What is your point exactly? That ND doesn't have the same margin for error as some other schools who can recruit and retain marginal academic kids, and can't tap into JUCOs year after year, so each misstep is magnified? If that's your point, then you're spot on, but it sure as hell isn't BK's fault. The play calling at the end of the Tulsa game was BKs fault...safe to say we haven't seen anything like that since and coach obviously is growing on the job even after his years coaching because quite simply, ND is a just different.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Also how about this year when our starting RB goes down for the season in game 1, right after our #2 RB puffs his way out of the university, but the running game doesn't miss a beat because the staff, lead by BK recognized RB potential is CJ prosise and had him working in and ready to go when he was needed..followed by two stud freshman backs that coach recruited. Or how about our depth on the OL, or pretty much all over the field that they are still building and developing that already this year we have 6 season ending injuries, many to major impact players and the team is still performing at a pretty high level. BK is a bum...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

He probably had that bulleted right next to have "Have my best WR, All-American CB, and a DL that I plan to rely on heavily get suspended for the entire year for academic violations prior to game 1 of the season" which was bulleted right under "Have my incumbent starting QB get suspended for the year for academic violations on the heels of reaching National Championship"

What is your point exactly? That ND doesn't have the same margin for error as some other schools who can recruit and retain marginal academic kids, and can't tap into JUCOs year after year, so each misstep is magnified? If that's your point, then you're spot on, but it sure as hell isn't BK's fault. The play calling at the end of the Tulsa game was BKs fault...safe to say we haven't seen anything like that since and coach obviously is growing on the job even after his years coaching because quite simply, ND is a just different.

Pfft. Just more excuses here. Every top football program in the country regularly suspends starters for academic malfeasance, so BK gets no pass.

 

[BearGB]

Seriously...when he was laying out his plan in 2010, was "luck into a smart walk-on with average physical tools to run my entire defense" part of the plan???

Couldn't agree more. Especially when such mediocre coaches as Pete Carroll (Clay Matthews), Bill Snyder (Jordy Nelson), and Nick Saban (Rashad Johnson) have previously relied on walk-ons to be key contributors. Some would call it a great walk-on program...

 

[IrishinSyria]

These are not "passes" or "excuses". The cold hard facts are that Brian Kelly took over a completely disfunctional program from his predecessor devoid of any depth at all, and completely lacking talent and development on both lines and on the defensive side of the ball. Technique was horrible, and attitude was equally bad. This program, in regards to being a national contender needed to be rebuilt from the ground up.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying but this is a huge exaggeration. You're describing the team CW took over, not BK.

 

[gkIrish]

He probably had that bulleted right next to have "Have my best WR, All-American CB, and a DL that I plan to rely on heavily get suspended for the entire year for academic violations prior to game 1 of the season" which was bulleted right under "Have my incumbent starting QB get suspended for the year for academic violations on the heels of reaching National Championship"

How is that not the coach's fault? Either he recruited players that were incapable of meeting the academic standards or he failed to oversee them.

What is your point exactly? That ND doesn't have the same margin for error as some other schools who can recruit and retain marginal academic kids, and can't tap into JUCOs year after year, so each misstep is magnified? If that's your point, then you're spot on, but it sure as hell isn't BK's fault. The play calling at the end of the Tulsa game was BKs fault...safe to say we haven't seen anything like that since and coach obviously is growing on the job even after his years coaching because quite simply, ND is a just different.

DID YOU WATCH THE NORTHWESTERN GAME??????? BK singlehandly lost that game. Please don't defend BK's playcalling. That's the weakest leg to stand on.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I agree with the gist of what you're saying but this is a huge exaggeration. You're describing the team CW took over, not BK.

Not really. Minus a few of the skill positions ND was below average pretty much everywhere else, and the talent that was on the roster was completely undeveloped.

 

[pkt77242]

Here's my point:

Schmidt was a walk-on. Riggs was a 5th year transfer. Jones was an underclassman.

The fact that we had to rely on guys that can be categorized as "walk-on," "5th year transfer" and "underclassman" is a failure in either recruiting or development or ________ (i.e. failure to keep kids academically qualified).

In other words, we lost 2 guys that we were supposed to rely on in 2014 when they were recruited back in ~2011. All the other failures (transfers away from ND, loss to the NFL) limited our depth so much that we could not recover.

Ultimately there was a failure somewhere along the way when losing 2 upperclassmen on scholarship caused the ship to sink.

What? Tell me a school that doesn't depend on a few underclassmen. That point is a little ridiculous.

 

[pkt77242]

We were plugging in holes for guys that should never have started in the first place.

Brian Kelly's plan was surely not to start a walk-on at MLB 4 years into his tenure, was it?

Seriously...when he was laying out his plan in 2010, was "luck into a smart walk-on with average physical tools to run my entire defense" part of the plan???

His plan was to start Jarrett Grace at MLB.

 

[gkIrish]

Couldn't agree more. Especially when such mediocre coaches as Pete Carroll (Clay Matthews), Bill Snyder (Jordy Nelson), and Nick Saban (Rashad Johnson) have previously relied on walk-ons to be key contributors. Some would call it a great walk-on program...

I never said a walk-on couldn't be a key contributor. But when the ENTIRE DEFENSE goes into full meltdown mode upon his injury, that's some scary shit....

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

How is that not the coach's fault? Either he recruited players that were incapable of meeting the academic standards or he failed to oversee them.



DID YOU WATCH THE NORTHWESTERN GAME??????? BK singlehandly lost that game. Please don't defend BK's playcalling. That's the weakest leg to stand on.

After reading this comment, I'm going to gracefully bow of the conversation. You cant't argue with...nevermind, but you've got to be kidding.

 

[gkIrish]

After reading this comment, I'm going to gracefully bow of the conversation. You cant't argue with...nevermind, but you've got to be kidding.

If a coach recruits a bunch of thugs, and they all commit a crime, is it the coach's fault or not?

Likewise, if a coach recruits a bunch of kids that either (a) couldn't handle the academics or (b) don't abide by academic rules, and then they go ahead and cheat, how is that not the coach's fault in large part?

 

[gkIrish]

The head coach of a college football program is responsible for the conduct of his players. PERIOD.

Brian Kelly would tell you the same thing himself. I guarantee it.

 

[GowerND11]

I never said a walk-on couldn't be a key contributor. But when the ENTIRE DEFENSE goes into full meltdown mode upon his injury, that's some scary shit....

But again it wasn't just his injury. When Schmidt got hurt he became the 3rd MLB gone for the season. (Grace, K. Moore, and himself). We lost 6 defensive linemen starting in June. Our #1 CB was out for the season and our GT CB missed multiple games. Those are big holes to fill.

Part of this is on Kelly. He went after recruits that didin't fit the mold for ND and they left. Part of it is his play calling, not putting his defense in a better position due to his offense.

But you cannot say that Kelly is at fault for a student-athlete cheating/plagiarizing/whatever on coursework. That is on that specific student-athlete. He cannot be babysitting them every night.

 

[GowerND11]

The head coach of a college football program is responsible for the conduct of his players. PERIOD.

Brian Kelly would tell you the same thing himself. I guarantee it.

He would also say that it is their responsibility to be responsible and act accordingly. You are right that in the end it is his head on the line for this kind of misconduct, but you act like he is supposed to be in the room with them at all times. Be realistic.

 

[Wild Bill]

We were plugging in holes for guys that should never have started in the first place.

Brian Kelly's plan was surely not to start a walk-on at MLB 4 years into his tenure, was it?

Seriously...when he was laying out his plan in 2010, was "luck into a smart walk-on with average physical tools to run my entire defense" part of the plan???

His plan was to start Jarrett Grace at MLB.

Beat me to it. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. He lost his presumed starter to a ridiculous injury, was left at the altar by a recruit in the last minute and then developed a walk on to play at a high level. And he still found a way to plug the hole with an above average player. Sounds like a job well done to me.

How is that not the coach's fault? Either he recruited players that were incapable of meeting the academic standards or he failed to oversee them.

They were more than capable. They made poor decisions and the players are to blame. Ishaq and KVR owned it as their own fuck up. You should too.

DID YOU WATCH THE NORTHWESTERN GAME??????? BK singlehandly lost that game. Please don't defend BK's playcalling. That's the weakest leg to stand on.

My ass. We lost that game b/c of a fumble and a bad snap/hold on a kick. If the players could have executed the way they were taught since middle school we would have won that game.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

If a coach recruits a bunch of thugs, and they all commit a crime, is it the coach's fault or not?

Likewise, if a coach recruits a bunch of kids that either (a) couldn't handle the academics or (b) don't abide by academic rules, and then they go ahead and cheat, how is that not the coach's fault in large part?

It's called "Free Will" my friend. I have spent his entire life teaching my son right from wrong, but under your premise I would be the one to blame every time he still chooses to do wrong. Furthermore, does that mean BK gets all the credit for K Russell since he spent a year getting his sh*t together and is now back contributing to the program? Or how about the simple acknowledgement that at the majority of the schools we are trying to compete with in the football arena, these players would not have suffered the same fate to begin with for these actions...that alone supports my point....ND is different and BK is not beating the same drum as 99% of the coaches people want to compare him with right now in determining what success looks like.

 

[gkIrish]

Beat me to it. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. He lost his presumed starter to a ridiculous injury, was left at the altar by a recruit in the last minute and then developed a walk on to play at a high level. And he still found a way to plug the hole with an above average player. Sounds like a job well done to me.



My ass. We lost that game b/c of a fumble and a bad snap/hold on a kick. If the players could have executed the way they were taught since middle school we would have won that game.

Kelly answers for questionable calls vs. Northwestern - Chicago Tribune

The first decision involved Kelly going for two when the Irish were up by 11 in the fourth quarter. The two-point attempt failed, allowing Northwestern to tie the game with a touchdown, two-point conversion and field goal.

Kelly later conceded: “In retrospect -- there's no advantage in retrospect. We felt that at the time with the struggles in the kicking game that we would have a good opportunity in the two-point play that we picked and we felt very confident that we would be successful.

Kelly’s other scrutinized decision came late in regulation after Northwestern had called its final timeout with 1 minute, 36 seconds to play. The Irish had second-and-8 from the Northwestern 33-yard line. Notre Dame could have knelt on the ball and punted, but there still would have been time on the clock – approximately 15 seconds – for Northwester to get the ball back.

 

[gkIrish]

I mean seriously if you guys don't want to blame Kelly for the Northwestern loss (pretty sure that was the Jet Sweep to Chris Brown game too) then I'm done. Complete lack of objectivity.

 

[Wild Bill]

Kelly answers for questionable calls vs. Northwestern - Chicago Tribune

DID YOU WATCH THE NORTHWESTERN GAME??????? BK singlehandly lost that game.

But we win that game if Cam holds onto the ball, right?

 

[pkt77242]

I never said a walk-on couldn't be a key contributor. But when the ENTIRE DEFENSE goes into full meltdown mode upon his injury, that's some scary shit....

I think the disagreement comes from perspective. You are looking at Schmidt's injury and are perplexed how it could cause the whole defense to fall apart. I think the other side is that it was the straw that broke the camel's back. You lose a starting CB (KVR), a starting DE (IW), have your starting MLB from the year before out (Grace), and then have Schmidt go down (and that isn't even going into Jones and Day getting injured that didn't help the young MLB who replaced Schmidt because they weren't getting protection from the DTs).

If a coach recruits a bunch of thugs, and they all commit a crime, is it the coach's fault or not?

Likewise, if a coach recruits a bunch of kids that either (a) couldn't handle the academics or (b) don't abide by academic rules, and then they go ahead and cheat, how is that not the coach's fault in large part?

If you recruit a bunch of thugs it is the coach's fault. Recruiting a 2-3 might just be a couple of kids making bad decisions. Same thing with academics. If 10 players weren't making grades then yes it is for sure the coach's fault. 2-3 could just be bad decisions by the players. A coach can't make every decision and hover over the players every second for all 85ish scholarship players.

 

[gkIrish]

I think the disagreement comes from perspective. You are looking at Schmidt's injury and are perplexed how it could cause the whole defense to fall apart. I think the other side is that it was the straw that broke the camel's back. You lose a starting CB (KVR), a starting DE (IW), have your starting MLB from the year before out (Grace), and then have Schmidt go down (and that isn't even going into Jones and Day getting injured that didn't help the young MLB who replaced Schmidt because they weren't getting protection from the DTs).

I'm not denying that BK had some rough luck last year. But IIRC he had half a season to prepare Nyles Morgan to run the defense in case Schmidt went down. Didn't happen. Still hasn't happened. Who's that on?

If you recruit a bunch of thugs it is the coach's fault. Recruiting a 2-3 might just be a couple of kids making bad decisions. Same thing with academics. If 10 players weren't making grades then yes it is for sure the coach's fault. 2-3 could just be bad decisions by the players. A coach can't make every decision and hover over the players every second for all 85ish scholarship players.

Is 5 kids + Golson + a couple other transfers not making grades/cheating to make grades not a sufficient amount to be a program-wide problem? IMO it is.

 

[greyhammer90]

I mean seriously if you guys don't want to blame Kelly for the Northwestern loss (pretty sure that was the Jet Sweep to Chris Brown game too) then I'm done. Complete lack of objectivity.

Please. Be done.

This thread may have started with a real intention to seriously look at BK's strengths/deficiencies as a coach but it's quickly devolved to trolling and nonsensical arguments. Some of it may be on people who are drunk on Kool-Aid, but your general attitude hasn't been conducive to an intelligent discussion either.

I mean look at this post. You're talking about a game where the most sure handed guy on our team fumbled the ball when we were trying to kill the clock and our kicker missed a chip in kick in OT. If that's "100%" on a coach then let's just get to the logical conclusion that everything on the field is "100%" on the coach and be done with this stupid conversation.

This thread is bad. These comments are bad. It's not 100% your fault it's bad, but you didn't help either.

 

[koonja]

Don't blame BK, blame Longo. He must go.

 

[wizards8507]

But we win that game if Cam never ever touches the ball, right?

FIFY

You can't single out one play. We should have been up by 40 at that point, so a fumble by Cam wouldn't have killed us.

 

[gkIrish]

Please. Be done.

This thread may have started with a real intention to seriously look at BK's strengths/deficiencies as a coach but it's quickly devolved to trolling and nonsensical arguments. Some of it may be on people who are drunk on Kool-Aid, but your general attitude hasn't been conducive to an intelligent discussion either.

I mean look at this post. You're talking about a game where the most sure handed guy on our team fumbled the ball when we were trying to kill the clock and our kicker missed a chip in kick in OT. If that's "100%" on a coach then let's just get to the logical conclusion that everything on the field is "100%" on the coach.

This thread is bad. These comments are bad. It's not 100% your fault it's bad, but you didn't help either.

Defending coaching decisions in the Northwestern game is the most ridiculously homerish thing I've ever seen written on the site. The two point conversion decision was single-handedly one of the worst coaching decisions in the history of coaching. Pick any other game and defend BK. Not Northwestern.

 

[Wild Bill]

FIFY

You can't single out one play. We should have been up by 40 at that point, so a fumble by Cam wouldn't have killed us.

My point is that BK is not "singlehandly" responsible for that loss. No doubt he dicked some things up in that game. But he wasn't alone. The Chris Brown reverse is a great example. Bad call. I agree. But Brown fumbles it on 2nd down. We could have overcome a loss of a down. We couldn't overcome not putting any points on the board.

Let's not act like the players came to play that day and BK simply couldn't put a game plan together to beat NW.

 

[ACamp1900]

Having NDPTSD helps at times, I can't even remember specifics about the Northwestern game, it's like it never happened.