[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

[wizards8507]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">cant wait for the tom brady statue on beacon hill modeled after christ the redeemer but holding a dunkin donuts ice coffee in each hand</p>— ☕netw3rk (@netw3rk) <a href="https://twitter.com/netw3rk/status/639451058461409280">September 3, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[Bubbles]

Glad this is over, for now. Anyone else ready for some MF'ing football?!?!

 

[wizards8507]

Glad this is over, for now. Anyone else ready for some MF'ing football?!?!

Seriously... FBS football in what, three hours?

 

[mgriff]

Good, now the Pats have no excuse when the Dolphins win the East!

 

[IrishLion]

From Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and New England Patriots apart

So, Roger Goodell is incapable of doing his job, and the Patriots were doing a lot more than just "taping hand signals during games, which everybody does!"

In fact, many former New England coaches and employees insist that the taping of signals wasn't even the most effective cheating method the Patriots deployed in that era. Several of them acknowledge that during pregame warm-ups, a low-level Patriots employee would sneak into the visiting locker room and steal the play sheet, listing the first 20 or so scripted calls for the opposing team's offense. (The practice became so notorious that some coaches put out fake play sheets for the Patriots to swipe.) Numerous former employees say the Patriots would have someone rummage through the visiting team hotel for playbooks or scouting reports. Walsh later told investigators that he was once instructed to remove the labels and erase tapes of a Patriots practice because the team had illegally used a player on injured reserve. At Gillette Stadium, the scrambling and jamming of the opponents' coach-to-quarterback radio line -- "small s---" that many teams do, according to a former Pats assistant coach -- occurred so often that one team asked a league official to sit in the coaches' box during the game and wait for it to happen. Sure enough, on a key third down, the headset went out.

 

[irishfan]

From Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and New England Patriots apart

So, Roger Goodell is incapable of doing his job, and the Patriots were doing a lot more than just "taping hand signals during games, which everybody does!"

Was anyone else underwhelmed with this OTL report? I thought they most glaring thing was how Martz had to sign a statement essentially against his will so that the league wouldn't get investigated. Not many actual quotes or stories of substance. The Spygate evidence being destroyed at Foxboro was interesting and new to me. Everything else was rumored stories or just what people around the league have heard.

Everything in the story is stuff that has been rumored forever. Like playsheets being stolen. It's why Peyton Manning thinks the locker rooms there are bugged (and also why he loses in Foxboro before he even steps on the field). It's probably a combination of truth and myth, but it certainly seems to have played head games with just about the entire league.

 

[wizards8507]

Was anyone else underwhelmed with this OTL report? I thought they most glaring thing was how Martz had to sign a statement essentially against his will so that the league wouldn't get investigated. Not many actual quotes or stories of substance. The Spygate evidence being destroyed at Foxboro was interesting and new to me. Everything else was rumored stories or just what people around the league have heard.

Everything in the story is stuff that has been rumored forever. Like playsheets being stolen. It's why Peyton Manning thinks the locker rooms there are bugged (and also why he loses in Foxboro before he even steps on the field). It's probably a combination of truth and myth, but it certainly seems to have played head games with just about the entire league.

How not-surprised would you be that all of these rumors were started by Belichick and are completely made up just to fuck with people?

 

[irishfan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bill Belichick said all -- literally, all -- that needs to be said about Spygate on Jan. 24, 2015. <a href="http://t.co/snNT9Fvr7p">pic.twitter.com/snNT9Fvr7p</a></p>— Michael Hurley (@michaelFhurley) <a href="https://twitter.com/michaelFhurley/status/641239029049094144">September 8, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Since Spygate is apparently the most evil cheating scandal ever.

 

[irishfan]

How not-surprised would you be that all of these rumors were started by Belichick and are completely made up just to fuck with people?

At the very least, he definitely encourages the rumors. Manning having to go out into the hallway to talk to coaches because he fears bugs in the locker room is Mindgames 101.

 

[IrishLion]

So you guys are cool with rampant cheating because mind games?

 

[wizards8507]

So you guys are cool with rampant cheating because mind games?

No. I'm cool with deliberately spreading false rumors of rampant cheating because mind games. If the locker room is bugged, that's messed up. If the locker room isn't bugged but Belichick encourages people to think that it is, that's hilarious and brilliant.

 

[irishfan]

So you guys are cool with rampant cheating because mind games?

Spygate certainly was cheating by definition although it was not something just happening in New England. You can choose what you want to believe with Deflategate. One gauge said the footballs were fine, and the other said they were deflated by .2 PSI. Everything else in this story is just whispers and rumors. I choose to believe they're successful because they have both the best modern-day coach and best QB, not because teams who can't beat them say they cheated....when they only cheating story with any proof is still Spygate from 8 seasons ago.

 

[gkIrish]

There's going to be a day, sometime after Belichick retires, that someone is going to come clean about all the cheating the Patriots have done during his tenure. It may not be for 20 years but it's going to happen. I'll be waiting.

 

[IrishLion]

That's what I'm talking about. It's clear that it was much more than just taping hand signals during games. Stealing play sheets from locker rooms? Filming practices? Dressing as NFL officials and hiding team affiliation to gain access to the opposition's information? Jamming QB-coach communications on key plays?

Is every team really going to these lengths for an edge?

 

[wizards8507]

That's what I'm talking about. It's clear that it was much more than just taping hand signals during games. Stealing play sheets from locker rooms? Filming practices? Dressing as NFL officials and hiding team affiliation to gain access to the opposition's information? Jamming QB-coach communications on key plays?

Is every team really going to these lengths for an edge?

OR, those things are horseshit.

 

[irishfan]

That's what I'm talking about. It's clear that it was much more than just taping hand signals during games. Stealing play sheets from locker rooms? Filming practices? Dressing as NFL officials and hiding team affiliation to gain access to the opposition's information? Jamming QB-coach communications on key plays?

Is every team really going to these lengths for an edge?

This is my point and why I was underwhelmed with the report. There is nothing "clear" in here. The stealing play sheets thing is a rumor. The Patriots have denied filming practices since the start of Spygate, and did so again today after this report came out. ESPN had to apologize about a week ago for still reporting that false story. Jamming the QB-coach communications I have read happens just about everywhere. I have no idea if the technology now is better where teams can no longer do that. I agree that is BS.

About 95% of this report was just old Patriots cheating rumors that have been around forever. I was more intrigued by the Goodell/NFL info.

 

[IrishLion]

OR, those things are horseshit.

So we are disregarding first-hand accounts of those things now lol?

Ohhhh, of course, it's a disgruntled former employee. No way that it was actually happening.

 

[IrishLion]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NFL teams don't trust the Patriots. 19 told SI they take precautions against NE they don't take against anyone else: <a href="http://t.co/ag43xxnwDI">http://t.co/ag43xxnwDI</a></p>— Greg Bishop (@GregBishopSI) <a href="https://twitter.com/GregBishopSI/status/641275475164196864">September 8, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[IrishLax]

Patriots fans SMH... some of you guys are embarrassing yourselves.

 

[wizards8507]

Patriots fans SMH... some of you guys are embarrassing yourselves.

Butthurt fans (and coaches and executives and owners and players) of shit franchises are embarrassing themselves.

 

[IrishLion]

Butthurt fans (and coaches and executives and owners and players) of shit franchises are embarrassing themselves.

You just can't admit that the Patriots cheat?

There is always a reason why it's either bullsh*t, not true, or not a big deal?

 

[ACamp1900]

haha, it's like listening to Obama supporters...

 

[IrishLax]

Butthurt fans (and coaches and executives and owners and players) of shit franchises are embarrassing themselves.

Nice comeback to a well-researched report utilizing dozens of sources and first-hand accounts. A report that has no perceptible flaws at the moment, so the only comeback is "YOU CAN'T PROVE IT AND WE DENY EVERYTHING BLAH BLAH BLAH EVERYONE IS DISGRUNTLED AND A HATER."

Keep living in your bubble, the rest of the country sees it for what it is.

Stealing play sheets and jamming head sets... that's even beyond Kiffin-level shenanigans...

 

[irishfan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NFL teams don't trust the Patriots. 19 told SI they take precautions against NE they don't take against anyone else: <a href="http://t.co/ag43xxnwDI">http://t.co/ag43xxnwDI</a></p>— Greg Bishop (@GregBishopSI) <a href="https://twitter.com/GregBishopSI/status/641275475164196864">September 8, 2015</a></blockquote>
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You could say the rest of the NFL is paranoid, and you might be right. What’s not debatable is that New England, because of that lack of trust, is inside opponents’ heads, forcing other teams to devote time, brainpower and resources to protecting themselves. Teams wonder why ball boys in Foxborough seem to stand closer to opposing coaches than they do anywhere else. It is common for opposing teams to have an employee guard their locker room all day when they visit Foxborough, something they rarely do for other road games. One team that played there in recent years put a padlock on the doors when it arrived on the Saturday before a game. The Patriots threatened to call the fire chief. When the visiting team challenged them to do it, the Pats backed down and the padlock remained. “There has never been a time when we have knowingly allowed a team to padlock doors,” says Patriots spokesman Stacey James. “That’s a fire code violation.”

Some of the security measures are small. It is standard NFL practice for home teams to help unload equipment from buses, but one AFC team won’t let the Patriots do it. Other precautions are extreme: At least five teams have swept their hotels, locker rooms or coaches’ booths in New England for listening devices, sometimes hiring outside professionals. None have been found.

This article was pretty good...but it really showed a lot of teams paranoia and no actual cheating. Belichick is in so many heads.

 

[IrishLion]

"Belichick is playing mind games; cheating's cool."

 

[Rhode Irish]

It is pretty transparent plant by the NFL to have two of these stories come out on the same day following a long weekend after the NFL got its ass handed to them in court (again). People can eat this up if they want, but there is nothing new in the reports that came out this morning other than some background information and the extent to which Bill Belichick and Ernie Adams have crawled inside some people's heads and established permanent residency there.

Everyone already knew the Patriots videotaped opponents' sidelines prior to being fined in 2007. Up until that point, they didn't even make an effort at hiding what they were doing because they did not believe they were doing anything wrong. Everyone (that has been paying attention) also knows that filming the opposing sideline was common practice in the NFL up until 2006, when the League decided they wanted to crack down on it.

Everything else is innuendo and conjecture. The stories are mostly full of people saying what they suspect the Patriots of doing - all things that there is no actual evidence to support, which to me just makes them look like paranoid whiners. And most of the "sources" who have chosen to throw stones at the Patriots by airing their suspicious for this story won't even go on the record.

To me, Spygate continues to be the worst understood and most overblown "scandal" in the history of sports. You still have idiots (in the media, never mind fans of other teams) who think that Spygate was about taping practices and walk-throughs, when it was 100% not about that at all.

Nobody will ever make me or the rest of Patriots fans happy about this stuff. We get a bad wrap, and it is all politics. But arguing that is like spitting in the wind, so I'm not sure why we even bother. Bottom line is that we are the dominant franchise in all of sports, and no amount of whining or hilarious accusations or paranoia can change that. Once you realize that, you can embrace the hate and learn to wear it as a badge of honor.

 

[IrishLion]

Oh the timing makes perfect sense, but I think it's funny that different sources all saying the same things (about the cheating beyond the videotaping) are all dismissed by Pats fans, and that the videotaping itself is dismissed as "it wasn't even illegal!!!" when it was... which is why they got in trouble, no?

But everyone's doing it, so our cheating doesn't matter!

 

[wizards8507]

Oh the timing makes perfect sense, but I think it's funny that different sources all saying the same things (about the cheating beyond the videotaping) are all dismissed by Pats fans, and that the videotaping itself is dismissed as "it wasn't even illegal!!!" when it was... which is why they got in trouble, no?

It was, once upon a time, legal. It was made illegal, and the Patriots didn't stop. No, that doesn't make it right. But it's inaccurate to suggest that it was always illegal.

But everyone's doing it, so our cheating doesn't matter!

Pretty much, yep. Stealing signs in baseball, using too much pine tar, curving your hockey stick, shuffling your feet with the basketball, travelling on a layup, flopping (basketball), diving (soccer), faking an injury (football), whatever. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. There's zero moral authority in the rules set forth by the commissioner of the NFL so I sleep just fine when teams violate them.

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[Rhode Irish]

Oh the timing makes perfect sense, but I think it's funny that different sources all saying the same things (about the cheating beyond the videotaping) are all dismissed by Pats fans, and that the videotaping itself is dismissed as "it wasn't even illegal!!!" when it was... which is why they got in trouble, no?

But everyone's doing it, so our cheating doesn't matter!

You're making a couple different points here, so let's break them out.

First, the different sources saying the same things would be meaningful if all of them were making the same claims independently, but this is the NFL - all of these guys work together and speak with one another and there is such an incestuous nature to the inner workings of the league that I think it is fairly obvious how a bunch of people could come to say the same types of things.

Second, it isn't that it wasn't illegal, it's that the violation that occurred was a technical violation having to do with where the videotaping occurred. And they have admitted to that and accepted the associated penalty. The argument has never been that what they did was perfectly legal, it has been that the seriousness of what they did has been grossly overstated in the media and therefore the perception of it by most NFL fans is totally out of proportion with what actually happened. [ETA: and as Wizards points out, it actually was a permitted practice in the League for much of the time that the taping occurred, which is not mentioned in this morning's ESPN story I don't believe.]

And third, related to the above, the point of saying "other people were doing it!" isn't to be petulant and childish about it, just to point out that whatever competitive advantage they supposedly got from the activity (which I would argue is close to none), they were not alone in gaining that advantage as most people would have you believe. They were not singular in their moral turpitude.

 

[Irish#1]

Patriot fans sure are a sensitive bunch! Wait, I think I've said that before! lol