'16 MI OLB Daelin Hayes (Notre Dame Early Enrollee)

[drake29]

I did not say he was similar to Hill. I said I see him being used similar to the way Hill was in order to see early playing time. A speed rusher off the edge. He is also trending towards outgrowing the LB spot and projects to a DE. IIRC.

First off, why would you use him as an edge rusher if it's not one of his better skills. If we have need for a rush from the edge, I'd rather see someone out there who has a motor and pass rush ability. Secondly - unless he loses mobility (260 +) I don't see why you move a kid that's that big with that lateral mobility. It's a linebacker's skill set. He looks much more like a project as a DE. Not everyone gains weight once they get into college. I lost weight from my senior year of HS to the end of my frosh year in college - in a college weight program. They can tailor it to fit his needs. Raekwon McMillan lost fat and added muscle, but weighs the same. They could do the same for Hayes at ND.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

If we do get his commitment, I start feeling much better about our defensive haul. I'd still like to see us secure a top safety or 3 and maybe another 5 DEs but this starts feeling much better.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

First off, why would you use him as an edge rusher if it's not one of his better skills. If we have need for a rush from the edge, I'd rather see someone out there who has a motor and pass rush ability. Secondly - unless he loses mobility (260 +) I don't see why you move a kid that's that big with that lateral mobility. It's a linebacker's skill set. He looks much more like a project as a DE. Not everyone gains weight once they get into college. I lost weight from my senior year of HS to the end of my frosh year in college - in a college weight program. They can tailor it to fit his needs. Raekwon McMillan lost fat and added muscle, but weighs the same. They could do the same for Hayes at ND.

I would definitely keep an eye on moving Hayes to DE. With his speed/athleticism, he'd be an ideal rush end at 265+ and we have a number of athletic linebackers who entered the program between 200-220, they will idealy add 15-35+ lbs to be in the linebacker mold.

What we don't have are ideal pass rushers and I think Hayes athleticism makes him a potential game changer if he can clean up his game.

 

[Irish#1]

First off, why would you use him as an edge rusher if it's not one of his better skills. If we have need for a rush from the edge, I'd rather see someone out there who has a motor and pass rush ability. Secondly - unless he loses mobility (260 +) I don't see why you move a kid that's that big with that lateral mobility. It's a linebacker's skill set. He looks much more like a project as a DE. Not everyone gains weight once they get into college. I lost weight from my senior year of HS to the end of my frosh year in college - in a college weight program. They can tailor it to fit his needs. Raekwon McMillan lost fat and added muscle, but weighs the same. They could do the same for Hayes at ND.

Simple. If he has the athleticism and size you teach him the skill. How many kids coming out of HS have really mastered their skill set? They are all a work in progress even after they get to the pros. That's why they coach them.

 

[connor_in]

boys boys boys


lets get him in the door AND THEN argue about where to put him (fingers crossed for holder)

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

boys boys boys


lets get him in the door AND THEN argue about where to put him (fingers crossed for holder)

This.

 

[Ricochet]

First off, why would you use him as an edge rusher if it's not one of his better skills. If we have need for a rush from the edge, I'd rather see someone out there who has a motor and pass rush ability. Secondly - unless he loses mobility (260 +) I don't see why you move a kid that's that big with that lateral mobility. It's a linebacker's skill set. He looks much more like a project as a DE. Not everyone gains weight once they get into college. I lost weight from my senior year of HS to the end of my frosh year in college - in a college weight program. They can tailor it to fit his needs. Raekwon McMillan lost fat and added muscle, but weighs the same. They could do the same for Hayes at ND.

Hayes already has the size of a WDE and just because he's better at the OLB position at this point it doesn't mean that his ultimate upside isn't elsewhere.

There is no question at the HS level he's better off being a LB, however that said his physical skills scream WDE. The problem at DE for him is lack of experience, that's it.

At LB in HS he just dominates by being bigger, quicker and faster and can do this because he got the room to so.

This is also the reasons why he will make a great college WDE it just the lack of experience. At LB he's got the space to move unlike at DE where your man is right on top of you and that lack of experience is why he's predictable at DE because all he's got is a bull rush. At LB its all about is legs but once he's got more moves at DE his natural DE skills will shine.

 

[irishnd31]

boys boys boys


lets get him in the door AND THEN argue about where to put him (fingers crossed for holder)

 

[drake29]

Simple. If he has the athleticism and size you teach him the skill. How many kids coming out of HS have really mastered their skill set? They are all a work in progress even after they get to the pros. That's why they coach them.

Nobody has mastered pass rushing skills coming out of high school. Some kids at least have a moderate amount of skill at rushing the passer (Hill). Others have freakish size/athletic ability for the position (Clowney, Aaron Lynch, Tuitt). I don't think Hayes fits into either category as a freshman and that's really all I'm saying. I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud but I'm not optimistic enough to think anyone can just coach a kid a few pass rush moves over a couple of months and expect them to make a difference against much larger and more experienced offensive linemen.

 

[drake29]

boys boys boys


lets get him in the door AND THEN argue about where to put him (fingers crossed for holder)

Just a friendly debate. None of us has a clue what his future will be - or if he even signs with the Irish in the end. But it's a fun game to play.

 

[pkt77242]

 

[drake29]

Hayes already has the size of a WDE and just because he's better at the OLB position at this point it doesn't mean that his ultimate upside isn't elsewhere.

There is no question at the HS level he's better off being a LB, however that said his physical skills scream WDE. The problem at DE for him is lack of experience, that's it.

At LB in HS he just dominates by being bigger, quicker and faster and can do this because he got the room to so.

This is also the reasons why he will make a great college WDE it just the lack of experience. At LB he's got the space to move unlike at DE where your man is right on top of you and that lack of experience is why he's predictable at DE because all he's got is a bull rush. At LB its all about is legs but once he's got more moves at DE his natural DE skills will shine.

I'm not sure what DE ability anyone sees that is natural for him. I guess that's my biggest question. He will be an average size DE without (at least right now) an explosive first step. We have no idea how he'd respond to getting double teamed or how he would hold up against the run. ND won't just be teaching this guy the finer points on how to play DE, they need to start from scratch. I think he'd be a much more effective pass rusher coming from the second level taking on a RB than a DE taking on a 6-6, 320 lb OT.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

seemed sluggish to me in that lil vid, I expected to see burst. has that weird bow legged looking kinda run like Jaylon too, not that that means anything one way or another lol.

 

[ACamp1900]

seemed sluggish to me in that lil vid, I expected to see burst. has that weird bow legged looking kinda run like Jaylon too, not that that means anything one way or another lol.

I can't be the only one that went there......

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I've never seen our board be so dismissive of a top 100 prospect like this? Rankings aren't everything but there is a reason he's wanted by every top program.

 

[Wild Bill]

I've never seen our board be so dismissive of a top 100 prospect like this? Rankings aren't everything but there is a reason he's wanted by every top program.

Jashon Cornell.

 

[koonja]

Like I said, I'll take a project 4/5 star over a project 3 star all day. His offer list isn't insane, but it's very good.

 

[pkt77242]

I can't be the only one that went there......

My first thought was of Colonel Potter singing "I love to go swimming with bowlegged women, and swim between their legs, and swim between their legs".

ETA: MASH is one of the greatest shows of all time.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I've never seen our board be so dismissive of a top 100 prospect like this? Rankings aren't everything but there is a reason he's wanted by every top program.

I see a solid 4star DE that needs some coaching. Like Koon said, I'll gladly take a 4star who needs some work over a 3 star who needs a lot more work.

He definitely needs to learn some more pass rushing moves. In the vids, the bigger OT's stand him up. He can't bull rush everyone. But his size, athleticism, and talent...can't teach.

 

[BoredIrish]

I see a solid 4star DE that needs some coaching. Like Koon said, I'll gladly take a 4star who needs some work over a 3 star who needs a lot more work.

He definitely needs to learn some more pass rushing moves. In the vids, the bigger OT's stand him up. He can't bull rush everyone. But his size, athleticism, and talent...can't teach.

Not sure why everyone is so certain that he would even be a DE.

The guys on the II podcast seem to think that he would be a GREAT MLB.

 

[TomHaverford]

I've never seen our board be so dismissive of a top 100 prospect like this? Rankings aren't everything but there is a reason he's wanted by every top program.

I think that's kind of the point. There is no way he should be a top 100 prospect IMO.

He's played very little varsity football and he's a senior in high school. I think his entire track record is 7-8 games of varsity ball. He hasn't proven himself to be a top 100 player on the field. His size and athletic skills are A+, no doubt about it. I think his best fit is a rush LB in a 3-4, and he could be very good if he takes to the coaching and develops.

Rivals has this kid as the #12 player in the country and a 5*. Is he that? I just don't see that. I think a kid rated that high should be plug-n-play, as close to a sure thing as possible. Hayes is far from that. I'd take him for sure, no questions asked, but the hype is a little too much on him IMO. What's the downside of taking a 3* kid with that much athletic ability? Not much. He works out, you have a big-time player. He doesn't, no big deal, lots of kids never pan out in college.

I think a 3* rating for Hayes would be more appropriate. Lots of 3*'s wind up becoming stars. Sometimes great HS players are rated 3*'s because their mediocre athletic skills don't quite translate to the next level whether it they are deemed to small or slow (see Mike Hart). I think Hayes' case is the reverse. A great athlete but not really that great of a ball player. He hasn't played a ton of games because of injuries and transfers, and his hype is pretty much all bc of t-shirt and short camps and his athletic skills. Just my 2 cents.

 

[woolybug25]

In the limited amount of games he's played, how has he performed?

 

[irishnd31]

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Here is to hoping he plays game one next year at Notre Dame, has 5 sacks, and holds up a sign that reads "screw you message boards".

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

I think that's kind of the point. There is no way he should be a top 100 prospect IMO.

He's played very little varsity football and he's a senior in high school. I think his entire track record is 7-8 games of varsity ball. He hasn't proven himself to be a top 100 player on the field. His size and athletic skills are A+, no doubt about it. I think his best fit is a rush LB in a 3-4, and he could be very good if he takes to the coaching and develops.

Rivals has this kid as the #12 player in the country and a 5*. Is he that? I just don't see that. I think a kid rated that high should be plug-n-play, as close to a sure thing as possible. Hayes is far from that. I'd take him for sure, no questions asked, but the hype is a little too much on him IMO. What's the downside of taking a 3* kid with that much athletic ability? Not much. He works out, you have a big-time player. He doesn't, no big deal, lots of kids never pan out in college.

I think a 3* rating for Hayes would be more appropriate. Lots of 3*'s wind up becoming stars. Sometimes great HS players are rated 3*'s because their mediocre athletic skills don't quite translate to the next level whether it they are deemed to small or slow (see Mike Hart). I think Hayes' case is the reverse. A great athlete but not really that great of a ball player. He hasn't played a ton of games because of injuries and transfers, and his hype is pretty much all bc of t-shirt and short camps and his athletic skills. Just my 2 cents.

I pretty much agree. Also how I felt about Coney (who is apparently doing well in camp so IDK), film was just very blah. Still a take because the position and the measurables, but his tape is one of the worst I've seen from a supposed borderline 5*.

 

[connor_in]

Here is to hoping he plays game one next year at Notre Dame, has 5 sacks, and holds up a sign that reads "screw you message boards".

Which no one can read because its too small and we don't have a message board

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I think that's kind of the point. There is no way he should be a top 100 prospect IMO.

He's played very little varsity football and he's a senior in high school. I think his entire track record is 7-8 games of varsity ball. He hasn't proven himself to be a top 100 player on the field. His size and athletic skills are A+, no doubt about it. I think his best fit is a rush LB in a 3-4, and he could be very good if he takes to the coaching and develops.

Rivals has this kid as the #12 player in the country and a 5*. Is he that? I just don't see that. I think a kid rated that high should be plug-n-play, as close to a sure thing as possible. Hayes is far from that. I'd take him for sure, no questions asked, but the hype is a little too much on him IMO. What's the downside of taking a 3* kid with that much athletic ability? Not much. He works out, you have a big-time player. He doesn't, no big deal, lots of kids never pan out in college.

I think a 3* rating for Hayes would be more appropriate. Lots of 3*'s wind up becoming stars. Sometimes great HS players are rated 3*'s because their mediocre athletic skills don't quite translate to the next level whether it they are deemed to small or slow (see Mike Hart). I think Hayes' case is the reverse. A great athlete but not really that great of a ball player. He hasn't played a ton of games because of injuries and transfers, and his hype is pretty much all bc of t-shirt and short camps and his athletic skills. Just my 2 cents.

So much is dictated by the camp settings, rightly or wrongly, and apparently he's been a camp star. I think that at least warrants 4 stars. He needn't be a 5 star given his highlight tape but his raw tools don't show up in the wild often.

A 3 star is a player who looks average and has average to slightly above average athletic ability. Hayes isn't that, he's a high ceiling but raw prospect. I'd take 3 of him if I could, regardless of his current highlights.

 

[NDPhilly]

Please God Betiku and Hayes

 

[dublinirish]

Skyline's game vs Okemos was postponed last night due to inclement weather. Rescheduled for today

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Due to inclement weather, the OHS football game vs. AA Skyline has been postponed until Friday at 1pm. More details will be posted Friday.</p>— Ira Childress, AD (@OkemosAthletics) <a href="https://twitter.com/OkemosAthletics/status/639641273666768896">September 4, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[drake29]

To clarify, I'm not being dismissive of Hayes. I think he's an outstanding LB prospect. I just don't see it at DE? For instance, I keep seeing guys say you can't teach that SIZE...as a DE he would be average at best. He certainly wouldn't be using his size advantage on much larger offensive lineman. He size and athleticism make him an elite LB prospect. I don't know why anyone would want to move him other than the fact that he's 250 lbs. That's the entire argument.