Navy game

[Wingman Ray]

I get the whole ND plays Navy as a payback for keeping ND above water 70 years ago. What I dont get is why we play a team that every single year puts our players on the injured reserve list. We play a team that we have absolutely zero to gain by and everything to lose. We play a team that has zero to lose and everything to gain. That mentality leads to nothing more that desperate play style that jeopardizes our season every year. Last year it was the leader of our defense which after his loss, ND goes from giving up 18.7 ppg to 41.2 ppg. Who this year?

I know Kelly went on the air to talk about toughing it out/be a man/quit crying but it is nothing more than BS that every year we have more injuries versus this team than any other. I cannot understand why ND cant have a talk saying "this game benefits you...we both know that. This maverick play style ends or the series end. Your choice. Navy needs ND a heck of a lot more than ND needs Navy."

Again, I understand and respect tradition. I dont respect a team making their season off of a win at all cost approach.

 

[woolybug25]

I get the whole ND plays Navy as a payback for keeping ND above water 70 years ago. What I dont get is why we play a team that every single year puts our players on the injured reserve list. We play a team that we have absolutely zero to gain by and everything to lose. We play a team that has zero to lose and everything to gain. That mentality leads to nothing more that desperate play style that jeopardizes our season every year. Last year it was the leader of our defense which after his loss, ND goes from giving up 18.7 ppg to 41.2 ppg. Who this year?

I know Kelly went on the air to talk about toughing it out/be a man/quit crying but it is nothing more than BS that every year we have more injuries versus this team than any other. I cannot understand why ND cant have a talk saying "this game benefits you...we both know that. This maverick play style ends or the series end. Your choice. Navy needs ND a heck of a lot more than ND needs Navy."

Again, I understand and respect tradition. I dont respect a team making their season off of a win at all cost approach.

So we are doing this again? We really need this thread again?

We aren't going to tell another team to stop playing a style of offense that is completely legal. Quit crying about it every year. They are freaking Navy. Just beat them and move on.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

So we are doing this again? We really need this thread again?

We aren't going to tell another team to stop playing a style of offense that is completely legal. Quit crying about it every year. They are freaking Navy. Just beat them and move on.

What wooly said x2

 

[Bubbles]

Wait....we play Navy?

 

[phork]

I get the whole ND plays Navy as a payback for keeping ND above water 70 years ago.

I guess you don't. I guess it wasn't really an issue until Paul Johnson beat ND. Usually it was ND's version of Charleston Southern. Be this is ND and history and tradition mean more.

 

[Irish#1]

STOP!

 

[pumpdog20]

Good grief.

 

[wizards8507]

So we are doing this again? We really need this thread again?

We aren't going to tell another team to stop playing a style of offense that is completely legal. Quit crying about it every year. They are freaking Navy. Just beat them and move on.

What wooly said x2

x3

 

[Wingman Ray]

I get you guys are defensive. I guess I just get tired of seeing my team go down the flusher every year in order to play one crappy team when other top tier teams dont go through it year in, year out.

It is what it is. Just another item in the long list of things that ND does that makes zero sense.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'll be Wingman's wingman on this one. Our debt to Navy is paid. Tired of injuries. BK will say the right thing like he did last year (everyone quit whining), but I'd bet he would love to kill this game too.

I know it's unpopular to break with tradition, but I'm happy to be unpopular on this topic. When confronted about ND's losses the last few years (or anytime), people have no problem using the "injury" card to explain the losses.

I also know it will probably never happen, but nothing wrong with debate. The only thing I hope is that we start 3rd and 4th string along the DL for this game.

 

[wizards8507]

I get you guys are defensive. I guess I just get tired of seeing my team go down the flusher every year in order to play one crappy team when other top tier teams dont go through it year in, year out.

It is what it is. Just another item in the long list of things that ND does that makes zero sense.

I'll be Wingman's wingman on this one. Our debt to Navy is paid. Tired of injuries. BK will say the right thing like he did last year (everyone quit whining), but I'd bet he would love to kill this game too.

I know it's unpopular to break with tradition, but I'm happy to be unpopular on this topic. When confronted about ND's losses the last few years (or anytime), people have no problem using the "injury" card to explain the losses.

I also know it will probably never happen, but nothing wrong with debate. The only thing I hope is that we start 3rd and 4th string along the DL for this game.

Tradition aside, IT'S NAVY! Do you comprehend how pathetic we look to the rest of the CFB community for crying about how hard it is to play NAVY every year? We should be ecstatic that tradition dictates we have a perpetual cupcake on our schedule. It's absolutely embarrassing that we can't get through a Navy game without needing our starters to go a full 60 minutes and then crying about injuries. Also, so what if Navy happens to run a triple-option offense today? What if USC started running one in 2017? Is everyone going to throw a bitch fit about how we shouldn't play USC anymore because they cut block?

 

[Irish YJ]

Tradition aside, IT'S NAVY! Do you comprehend how pathetic we look to the rest of the CFB community for crying about how hard it is to play NAVY every year? We should be ecstatic that tradition dictates we have a perpetual cupcake on our schedule. It's absolutely embarrassing that we can't get through a Navy game without needing our starters to go a full 60 minutes and then crying about injuries. Also, so what if Navy happens to run a triple-option offense today? What if USC started running one in 2017? Is everyone going to throw a bitch fit about how we shouldn't play USC anymore because they cut block?

Yes, it is pathetic, so why go through it. Get another cupcake if that's what people think and want. I'd rather have a Purdue cupcake that doesn't try to take out DL's knees. We can't have it both ways. We want to say out of one side of our mouths that it's a tough game, then say they're cupcakes out of the other side. The truth is, if cut blocking were illegal, they would be a cupcake. The triple option is not what bothers me.

 

[IrishLion]

Serious question that I'm sure has been answered already on this site somewhere:

Does Georgia Tech utilize the cut-block with their triple option? Or do they not need to because they can recruit actual DI linemen?

 

[woolybug25]

I'll be Wingman's wingman on this one. Our debt to Navy is paid. Tired of injuries. BK will say the right thing like he did last year (everyone quit whining), but I'd bet he would love to kill this game too.

I know it's unpopular to break with tradition, but I'm happy to be unpopular on this topic. When confronted about ND's losses the last few years (or anytime), people have no problem using the "injury" card to explain the losses.

I also know it will probably never happen, but nothing wrong with debate. The only thing I hope is that we start 3rd and 4th string along the DL for this game.

That debt will never be paid. They didn't just save the stupid football team. They saved the entire university. They're not breaking rules, they aren't intentionally trying to hurt our school. Just because a few fans don't like the game, doesn't mean we should turn our back on the one organization that didn't turn their back on us when the school was about to go the way of the Dodo. It saddens me that people even consider the topic of betraying our own values and betray a tremendous partner like Navy.

 

[woolybug25]

Serious question that I'm sure has been answered already on this site somewhere:

Does Georgia Tech utilize the cut-block with their triple option? Or do they not need to because they can recruit actual DI linemen?

Pretty sure all triple options cut block to some extent.

 

[Blaise]

It's Navy.... It's tradition and its a cupcake... If my choice is play Navy or play Umass every year.. I choose Navy

 

[wizards8507]

Yes, it is pathetic, so why go through it. Get another cupcake if that's what people think and want. I'd rather have a Purdue cupcake that doesn't try to take out DL's knees. We can't have it both ways. We want to say out of one side of our mouths that it's a tough game, then say they're cupcakes out of the other side. The truth is, if cut blocking were illegal, they would be a cupcake. The triple option is not what bothers me.

But there's no rule that says "Navy shall always run a triple option and Purdue never will." You don't make these kinds of decisions just because Navy happens to run a triple option today. Navy could go five-wide starting tomorrow and Purdue could start running triple-option out of the wing-T.

Serious question that I'm sure has been answered already on this site somewhere:

Does Georgia Tech utilize the cut-block with their triple option? Or do they not need to because they can recruit actual DI linemen?

It has nothing to do with "recruiting actual D1 linemen." NFL teams cut block. But yes. They cut block. Just about every play.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hsmFcN75KmI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Irish YJ]

Serious question that I'm sure has been answered already on this site somewhere:

Does Georgia Tech utilize the cut-block with their triple option? Or do they not need to because they can recruit actual DI linemen?

Per my GT neighbor, you see some elements of it, but far less than Navy. He says Navy stresses the knees more due to size (Navy's lack of). So your point above (GT gets D1 talent/size) would be valid per my neighbor.

All that said, there are still a ton of folks in the ACC that complain, especially Duke and Clemson IIRC about the cut blocking of GT.

 

[Irishbounty28]

How I feel about Ray being my wingman...

 

[Wingman Ray]

That debt will never be paid. They didn't just save the stupid football team. They saved the entire university. They're not breaking rules, they aren't intentionally trying to hurt our school. Just because a few fans don't like the game, doesn't mean we should turn our back on the one organization that didn't turn their back on us when the school was about to go the way of the Dodo. It saddens me that people even consider the topic of betraying our own values and betray a tremendous partner like Navy.

So you are saying it is okay to basically sacrifice your season (or parts of it because every single year someone gets hurt) to play with the little kid down the street because he looked after your house while you were away on vacation? I realize I am being facetious but really, I cant see any other benefit. In all the years of ND publicity and tickets sales, Navy has been paid back ten plus fold. Im just saying with the weight limit Navy has on its players, they cannot be competitive without the chop blocks. And clearly they do it and dont mind it at all. Do you remember that year we lost to them and the announcer replaying the play where their WR took out NDs CB's knees and the play was on the other side of the field (the CB wasnt even moving just watching the play end)? The WR got a unsportsman like but it was just crazy. And the Navy coach and the whole Navy team acted like no big deal.

And for the record, Navy isnt a barely D1 team. They took OSU to the wire and easily could have won both years.

 

[ACamp1900]

They didn't just save the stupid football team.

You call yourself a fan......

 

[NDohio]

I get the whole ND plays Navy as a payback for keeping ND above water 70 years ago. What I dont get is why we play a team that every single year puts our players on the injured reserve list. We play a team that we have absolutely zero to gain by and everything to lose. We play a team that has zero to lose and everything to gain. That mentality leads to nothing more that desperate play style that jeopardizes our season every year. Last year it was the leader of our defense which after his loss, ND goes from giving up 18.7 ppg to 41.2 ppg. Who this year?

I know Kelly went on the air to talk about toughing it out/be a man/quit crying but it is nothing more than BS that every year we have more injuries versus this team than any other. I cannot understand why ND cant have a talk saying "this game benefits you...we both know that. This maverick play style ends or the series end. Your choice. Navy needs ND a heck of a lot more than ND needs Navy."

Again, I understand and respect tradition. I dont respect a team making their season off of a win at all cost approach.

That injury had nothing to do with a cut block...

 

[Ndaccountant]

Tradition aside, IT'S NAVY! Do you comprehend how pathetic we look to the rest of the CFB community for crying about how hard it is to play NAVY every year? We should be ecstatic that tradition dictates we have a perpetual cupcake on our schedule. It's absolutely embarrassing that we can't get through a Navy game without needing our starters to go a full 60 minutes and then crying about injuries. Also, so what if Navy happens to run a triple-option offense today? What if USC started running one in 2017? Is everyone going to throw a bitch fit about how we shouldn't play USC anymore because they cut block?

You are right.....Navy was absolute road kill last year for the national champions. I posted it before......Navy has had one losing season in the last 10+ years and usually plays the toughest teams on their schedule very close. This isn't the same Navy team from 20+ years ago that was a doormat to CFB.

 

[woolybug25]

So you are saying it is okay to basically sacrifice your season (or parts of it because every single year someone gets hurt) to play with the little kid down the street because he looked after your house while you were away on vacation? I realize I am being facetious but really, I cant see any other benefit. In all the years of ND publicity and tickets sales, Navy has been paid back ten plus fold. Im just saying with the weight limit Navy has on its players, they cannot be competitive without the chop blocks. And clearly they do it and dont mind it at all. Do you remember that year we lost to them and the announcer replaying the play where their WR took out NDs CB's knees and the play was on the other side of the field (the CB wasnt even moving just watching the play end)? The WR got a unsportsman like but it was just crazy. And the Navy coach and the whole Navy team acted like no big deal.

And for the record, Navy isnt a barely D1 team. They took OSU to the wire and easily could have won both years.

Terrible analogy. It would be like being saved from drowning by the neighbor down the street and then screwing them over and kicking them to the curb once you're an adult.

So not only are you asking for us to betray the values of what make the university special, but also completely disrespect an arm of our armed services. Disrespect might not even be strong enough of a word... betray is more fitting. All because you don't like how they block... how they legally block.

As Wiz said before. You are calling for an end to a historic series (and for us to betray our values) based off of nothing more than their current brand of offense. One another team on our schedule plays. The damn style is legal and any team could do it if they so choose. Doesn't make sense to schedule a certain brand of opponent.

 

[IrishLion]

It has nothing to do with "recruiting actual D1 linemen.

Actually, it does when in reference to the Navy game we see every year.

Navy has to utilize the cut block because it is almost impossible for their linemen to get close to the 300 lb. mark. It's not an insult to say they can't recruit actual DI linemen... it's the truth because of the Academy's strict physical requirements. And so, because of their weight disadvantage, they use the cut block as an equalizer.

It does help that the cut block is best for setting the edge, particularly on the backside and on counters. But Navy does it because they literally cannot recruit legitimate DI linemen.

I was curious about GT, because they can recruit behemoths if they'd like, so they don't need the cut block as an equalizer.

 

[wizards8507]

Actually, it does when in reference to the Navy game we see every year.

Navy has to utilize the cut block because it is almost impossible for their linemen to get close to the 300 lb. mark. It's not an insult to say they can't recruit actual DI linemen... it's the truth because of the Academy's strict physical requirements. And so, because of their weight disadvantage, they use the cut block as an equalizer.

It does help that the cut block is best for setting the edge, particularly on the backside and on counters. But Navy does it because they literally cannot recruit legitimate DI linemen.

I was curious about GT, because they can recruit behemoths if they'd like, so they don't need the cut block as an equalizer.

My point is that Navy might use the cut block as an equalizer for athleticism, but even athletic teams use it as a strategic device. In other words, there are a number of reasons to cut block besides "not having big dudes up front," though that just happens to be Navy's reason.

You are right.....Navy was absolute road kill last year for the national champions. I posted it before......Navy has had one losing season in the last 10+ years and usually plays the toughest teams on their schedule very close. This isn't the same Navy team from 20+ years ago that was a doormat to CFB.

Are you kidding me with that? I don't care how many losing seasons they've had when their wins the last two years look like this:

Temple
Texas State
VMI (what the hell is VMI?)
San Jose State
Georgia Southern
South Alabama
Army
San Diego State
Indiana
Delaware
Air Force
Pitt
Hawaii
Middle Tennessee

Navy is 16-28 against Power Five opponents since 2005. They're a cupcake. Or at least they should be for a program like Notre Dame. Sam Houston State was 11-5 last year. Does that mean that LSU is a martyr for being "forced" to beat them 56-0? Win-loss record is a garbage point of comparison when those wins came against the FCS and Sun Belt.

 

[GoIrish41]

Is this a re-enactment thread? I'm sure I've read this same thread before. ...

 

[Wingman Ray]

Terrible analogy. It would be like being saved from drowning by the neighbor down the street and then screwing them over and kicking them to the curb once you're an adult.

So not only are you asking for us to betray the values of what make the university special, but also completely disrespect an arm of our armed services. Disrespect might not even be strong enough of a word... betray is more fitting. All because you don't like how they block... how they legally block.

As Wiz said before. You are calling for an end to a historic series (and for us to betray our values) based off of nothing more than their current brand of offense. One another team on our schedule plays. The damn style is legal and any team could do it if they so choose. Doesn't make sense to schedule a certain brand of opponent.

So what you are saying is that because of what Navy did 70 years ago, they get a free license to do whatever they want to our linemen and that is okay? So they can wreck our Dline because of their inability to compete and that is ND's problem because ND accepted their health almost three quarters of a century ago? So the same analogy that you use...neighbor saves you but it is okay if he takes your money, your things and whatever else he wants because he saved you from drowning when you were a kid? Because basically, by giving Navy a free reign to play how they want to be competitive, you are doing just that.

If that is betrayal, they I have to really question your concept of loyalty. Betrayal emphasizes equality. What you are alluding to is Master/Servant concept if one can do whatever he wants and the other has to take it no matter what.

 

[wizards8507]

So what you are saying is that because of what Navy did 70 years ago, they get a free license to do whatever they want to our linemen and that is okay?

No, he's saying they're not doing anything wrong to our linemen, so stop being a little bitch about it. You sound like a petulant schoolboy crying "that's not faaaaaair" because someone blocked your shot on the basketball court.

Because basically, by giving Navy a free reign to play how they want to be competitive, you are doing just that.

What the hell are you talking about? Notre Dame isn't "giving Navy free reign to play how they want to be competitive," Navy is playing within the rules of the game of football. There's no special "Navy exemption" that allows a certain type of blocking. Notre Dame could come out cut blocking Texas for 60 snaps and it would be perfectly legal.

 

[woolybug25]

So what you are saying is that because of what Navy did 70 years ago, they get a free license to do whatever they want to our linemen and that is okay? So they can wreck our Dline because of their inability to compete and that is ND's problem because ND accepted their health almost three quarters of a century ago? So the same analogy that you use...neighbor saves you but it is okay if he takes your money, your things and whatever else he wants because he saved you from drowning when you were a kid? Because basically, by giving Navy a free reign to play how they want to be competitive, you are doing just that.

Their cut blocking is 100% within the rules. Why can't you get that through your head? Do you also not ever want to play Bama again because they hit us too hard? We don't dictate how other teams play the game. The NCAA rule book does.

If that is betrayal, they I have to really question your concept of loyalty. Betrayal emphasizes equality. What you are alluding to is Master/Servant concept if one can do whatever he wants and the other has to take it no matter what.

But you want us to treat them like a servant? Playing football exactly how we tell them to or we won't play them? Maybe they don't like that we are faster, hit harder and are more athletic then them. How is that fair to them? Under your warped view of equality, then we should change too.

Your fanboy view of the world is what the problem is... not other people's value of loyalty.