Fatal shooting Charleston SC

[IrishLax]

Deterrents, in general, work. They don't work on people who aren't sane though.

That's why heavy drug sentencing doesn't work... because people are addicts. It's also why the death penalty doesn't deter murders... because they are crimes of passion; or committed by sociopaths/psychopaths. Either way, the person isn't in the right sense of mind.

It's important when considering punishment to evaluate the goal. Punitive? Rehabilitation? Both? I don't thin it's possible to make one-size-fits-all rules.

For guys like this, I view the death penalty as acceptable because on a macro scale I believe their genes should be removed from the greater pool of society. Then again, sterilization plus solitary confinement would get the job done... albeit at (maybe?) greater expense to society over the long run.

 

[ACamp1900]

Is our current correction system set up with true punitive or true rehabilitation in mind? If either is claimed true then the gawds are crazy

 

[Cackalacky]

On the other side: racism everywhere...CNN heckler "White People are Terrorists"

Huffington Post reporting his room mate says this was planned many months ago. It also happens to be on the anniversary of the 1822 slave rebellion led by Denmark Vesey that was quashed and led to the original Mother Emmanuel being burned down by a mob.

 

[pkt77242]

Is our current correction system set up with true punitive or true rehabilitation in mind? If either is claimed true then the gawds are crazy

More like to create profit for the for-profit prisons. Only partially kidding, as for-profit prisons are increasing in number at crazy rates.

How for-profit prisons have become the biggest lobby no one is talking about - The Washington Post

 

[ACamp1900]

On the other side: racism everywhere...CNN heckler "White People are Terrorists"

Huffington Post reporting his room mate says this was planned many months ago. It also happens to be on the anniversary of the 1822 slave rebellion led by Denmark Vesey that was quashed and led to the original Mother Emmanuel being burned down by a mob.

My fault for reading comments, but when his picture was first shared I saw a comment on some page, by some dude with an avatar that looked like lil Wayne, the comment was something like, and I'll be as fair as possible and try to post it exactly as I saw it: "Fo now on wheneva I hear des racist republicans, conservatives and other biggots I'll c dis cracka's ass face'

It's unreal and sad to me how we are all, for large part, completely pimped by those in power when it comes to things so simple,... Like skin tone.

 

[tussin]

I know it's a fact that execution is more costly than life in prision, but I'm curious to know if high profile convicts are cheaper to execute. I'd imagine a mass murderer would have less options during the appeals process.

 

[Irish YJ]

I don't think there's a topic of discussion that's relevant to the nation that I've gone back and forth on tmore han the death penalty... It frazzles me...

In keeping with my penchant for bringing up music or songs under damn near any situation:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tqQ1SrCtifs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Cackalacky]

That's right. A gun range coupon on the front page of the paper today. Can't make this shit up.

 

[Irish YJ]

Someone is getting fired over that one..
Holy cow common sense is just non-existent these days.

That's a great deal for $30 though.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

In some Middle Eastern countries the punishment for theft is having your hand cut off. You don't even want to think about what happens to a rapist. Is it a gruesome, scary, barbaric thing? Yep. And guess what? The theft rate there is darn near zero. It's effective. I've seen a film of a thief having his hand cut off. Horrible thing to watch, but it made me realize I'd starve to death before I'd steal anything there. Which is worse, one or two such punishments per year and virtually no crime, or the way we do it where criminals have little fear of the consequences and thus thousands of people get robbed and suffer because of it? I lean towards feeling that as gruesome as cutting off a hand or executing someone is, it actually produces a lot less suffering and trouble overall.

Championing Sharia law on a catholic school forum, bold move.

 

[GoIrish41]

It didn't eliminate crime. It definitely did deter a lot of it.

Who is to say? We do not have stats on who was deterred and who was not. The needle does not move much to either direction is my guess. My HS term paper was on the capital punishment. I focused on whether or not it was an effective deterrent. My research then indicated that most of the states that had capital punishment had higher murder rates than states that did not. I am 50 years old so the needle might have moved since then, but all my thinking on this topic has been that it is not a deterrent. You may be right about this but my point was that murders kept happening even when the public stopped getting to see the result of committing murder.

 

[Redbar]

Call him a terrorist, then. The bigger issue is that the press observes extremely sensitive protocols when a perpetrator is black, but makes sure to inform you prodigiously when a perpetrator is white.

Is this really your perspective of the press? Blacks get special treatment here also in your mind? I guess some people can see racism any and everywhere.

On another more disturbing note, in the wake of this tragedy, this is the injustice you want to speak on, your contribution to the dialogue??? God help us.

 

[pkt77242]

Is this really your perspective of the press? Blacks get special treatment here also in your mind? I guess some people can see racism any and everywhere.

On another more disturbing note, in the wake of this tragedy, this is the injustice you want to speak on, your contribution to the dialogue??? God help us.

God sent us him, isn't that his way of saying "Fuck you"?

Not perfect but close enough.

 

[irishff1014]

On the other side: racism everywhere...CNN heckler "White People are Terrorists"

Huffington Post reporting his room mate says this was planned many months ago. It also happens to be on the anniversary of the 1822 slave rebellion led by Denmark Vesey that was quashed and led to the original Mother Emmanuel being burned down by a mob.

I read an article like this and it also said the killer was going to kill himself after the event.

How do you not say something to the proper authorities?

And is this enough to charge him with some kind of acomplis?

 

[Cackalacky]

I read an article like this and it also said the killer was going to kill himself after the event.

How do you not say something to the proper authorities?

And is this enough to charge him with some kind of acomplis?

The joys of living in the south.... When your roommate says he wants to kill a bunch of black people.... And your response is....

 

[Irish#1]

That's right. A gun range coupon on the front page of the paper today. Can't make this shit up.

LMAO to the stupidity.

 

[Irish#1]

Who is to say? We do not have stats on who was deterred and who was not. The needle does not move much to either direction is my guess. My HS term paper was on the capital punishment. I focused on whether or not it was an effective deterrent. My research then indicated that most of the states that had capital punishment had higher murder rates than states that did not. I am 50 years old so the needle might have moved since then, but all my thinking on this topic has been that it is not a deterrent. You may be right about this but my point was that murders kept happening even when the public stopped getting to see the result of committing murder.

I don't have a problem with capital punishment as I believe it is warranted in certain situations. However, I don't believe it is a deterrent. How many people stop and think of the potential punishment before killing someone?

 

[phork]

I don't have a problem with capital punishment as I believe it is warranted in certain situations. However, I don't believe it is a deterrent. How many people stop and think of the potential punishment before killing someone?

You are certainly correct about that. However I would also add in rapists and molestors to the capital punishment list. Selective weeding out of bad apples in the human gene pool.

 

[wizards8507]

I don't have a problem with capital punishment as I believe it is warranted in certain situations. However, I don't believe it is a deterrent. How many people stop and think of the potential punishment before killing someone?

The same argument applies to gun control. How many criminals stop and think of following background check protocol before acquiring their murder weapon?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

 

[GoIrish41]

That's right. A gun range coupon on the front page of the paper today. Can't make this shit up.

Wow! That is pretty hard to believe. They are going to take some shit for that, as well they should.

 

[wizards8507]

That's right. A gun range coupon on the front page of the paper today. Can't make this shit up.

Um, if I'm a law-abiding citizen of any race in Charleston, Ferguson, or Baltimore, a gun range is EXACTLY where you'd find me. It's not about "guns are kewl," it's about being prepared to defend yourself if your city descends into chaos.

 

[Cackalacky]

Um, if I'm a law-abiding citizen of any race in Charleston, Ferguson, or Baltimore, a gun range is EXACTLY where you'd find me. It's not about "guns are kewl," it's about being prepared to defend yourself if your city descends into chaos.

This isnt chaos. This is one of many small incidents predicated on a deep seated hatred based on cultural differences. This person sat with these people for an hour and they trusted him enough to invite him to partake.... then he mercilessly dispatched them with his birthday present.

The good guy with a gun argument is literally the worst possible argument to make in this instance. His intent was to take his gun and use it to kill black people in probably the MOST historically significant church. He chose a weapon that was reasdily accessible and would inflict the most damage possible.

America has a uniquely obvious problem with guns... one that no other civilized country has.

I find it more than disturbing and no amount of training or learning to defend myself with MORE GUNS will be able to stop a person from arbitrarily deciding to take the most easy method of killing someone (a gun) and following through on it from a safe distance.

 

[Irish YJ]

Um, if I'm a law-abiding citizen of any race in Charleston, Ferguson, or Baltimore, a gun range is EXACTLY where you'd find me. It's not about "guns are kewl," it's about being prepared to defend yourself if your city descends into chaos.

I'm kinda in the same boat. I go to the range 5-6 times a year. I don't have a hand gun in the house. Just have mixed feeling on it. Got my grandfathers rifle and shotgun stored in the attic. I just don't trust society in general anymore. Has nothing to do with race. If I were in those areas (and getting more concerned here in ATL) I would definitely have one.

 

[notredomer23]

Wow! That is pretty hard to believe. They are going to take some shit for that, as well they should.

Doubt it. South Carolina has very few gun laws.

 

[Cackalacky]

Doubt it. South Carolina has very few gun laws.

You are right. There was a group of people that vociferous approved of it. Another group of people vociferously decried it. Two guess who was who....

 

[wizards8507]

This isnt chaos. This is one of many small incidents predicated on a deep seated hatred based on cultural differences. This person sat with these people for an hour and they trusted him enough to invite him to partake.... then he mercilessly dispatched them with his birthday present.

You're correct in describing what happened. I'm talking about the potential fallout. The folks in Charleston seem to be doing an amazing job at letting things play out, but that's now how Baltimore and Ferguson responded.

I find it more than disturbing and no amount of training or learning to defend myself with MORE GUNS will be able to stop a person from arbitrarily deciding to take the most easy method of killing someone (a gun) and following through on it from a safe distance.

I disagree. If ONE "good guy" in that church had a gun, we might be talking about one or two innocent victims and a dead shooter instead of nine innocent victims.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study

Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.

 

[wizards8507]

Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study

Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.

That might be the dumbest, most self-evident statement of all time. That's like saying "homes with a pool are more likely to have pool-related drownings" or "homes with dogs are more likely to have dog-related injuries."

 

[Cackalacky]

You're correct in describing what happened. I'm talking about the potential fallout. The folks in Charleston seem to be doing an amazing job at letting things play out, but that's now how Baltimore and Ferguson responded.


I disagree. If ONE "good guy" in that church had a gun, we might be talking about one or two innocent victims and a dead shooter instead of nine innocent victims.

This is how its being handled. Literally as diverse a crowd as as you will ever see in SC together organized quickly and effectively. The Jewish Community, Catholics, Baptists, multiracial non-denominational all together in solidarity.

As far as anyone having a gun to stop him...I am just not in the mood to argue that. There are numerous situations where gun violence was executed in the presence of people and places with more guns present and the act still concluded with the inevitable. Multiple people dead and eventually the shooter captured or shot.

My personal history with guns will not allow me to argue for the necessity of more guns especially those that are easily accessible. That's just me and I am not in the majority so I will leave that alone.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

That might be the dumbest, most self-evident statement of all time. That's like saying "homes with a pool are more likely to have pool-related drownings" or "homes with dogs are more likely to have dog-related injuries."

People think guns make them safer. It's objectively not true. You are more likely to accidentally shoot yourself than you are to shoot an invader.

Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. - PubMed - NCBI