A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[wizards8507]

There's a "Rant and Rave" thread for each episode over on Westeros.org's Forum of Ice and Fire. There are some gems in there.

Can we discuss how Loras' freaking birthmark was the key piece of evidence in the trial? I half expected the High Sparrow to order Loras to show everyone his ass, and then Olenna to say, "Hang on, I don't think that really looks like Dorne, right, Margaery? I think it's more shaped like Volantis, wouldn't you agree?"

ETA: When Jaime Lannister is a more violent raper than Ramsay Bolton, you bet that something is wrong.

 

[wizards8507]

From Grantland's Andy Greenwald, a show-only viewer:

But I don’t think there’s really any storytelling acrobatics that can forgive what happened next, particularly when it all seems so clear where it’s going. Or was that itself the trick? That instead of giving the audience the sight of what we’ve long wanted and expected — Reek reclaiming his essentially not-terrible Theon-ness by stabbing Ramsay in the throat — we were given something not needed at all? Sansa’s anguished screaming as she was violently assaulted by her new husband was hideous, full stop. But it was almost worse the way Jeremy Podeswa’s camera lingered on Alfie Allen’s tear-filled eyes, as if his violation was somehow equal to Sansa’s; as if this disgusting act was somehow part of Theon’s long and ugly path to redemption, not a brutal and unwarranted violation. Five seasons in, Game of Thrones is long past the point of earning gold stars simply by showing us the worst possible thing. There’s a fine line between exposing the dirty truth of the world and wallowing in it.

‘Game of Thrones’ Season 5, Episode 6 Recap: ‘Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken’ «

 

[ND NYC]

anyone else think first/ealry scene of the next episode will be reek/theon "snapping out of it" in the room and killing ramsay, and taking sansa out of there?

 

[wizards8507]

anyone else think first/ealry scene of the next episode will be reek/theon "snapping out of it" in the room and killing ramsay, and taking sansa out of there?

That's the biggest problem many people are having with the rape scene. Sansa's rape is presented simply as a plot point in Theon's redemption arc rather than an appalling event in Sansa's own arc (since Sansa doesn't appear to even have an arc).

 

[ND NYC]

That's the biggest problem many people are having with the rape scene. Sansa's rape is presented simply as a plot point in Theon's redemption arc rather than an appalling event in Sansa's own arc (since Sansa doesn't appear to even have an arc).

I meant do u think he will PRVENT the act just in the nick of time..."preserving" sansa and like u said, starting to change his arc on the show.

I think were beyond trying to compare book and show at this point. at least I am. to me they are not one and the same anymore. I blame GRRM as much as Benoit for that.
my biggest issue is if/when "show impacts book 6 and 7 plots" consciously or subconsciously for GRRM.

 

[Emcee77]

I meant do u think he will PREVENT the act just in the nick of time..."preserving" sansa and like u said, starting to change his arc on the show.

I think were beyond trying to compare book and show at this point. at least I am. to me they are not one and the same anymore. I blame GRRM as much as Benoit for that.
my biggest issue is if/when "show impacts book 6 and 7 plots" consciously or subconsciously for GRRM.

I wondered that too for a moment, but it just doesn't feel like the type of thing this show does. I think it's going to run pretty much the way it does in the books ... Theon will attempt to redeem himself by helping Sansa escape, and she will end up with Stannis. (I tend to agree with those who think that putting Sansa through such a horrifying attack is not really justified by such a meager redemption; I hope that allowing Sansa to be attacked so horribly has some consequences for Sansa's character that haven't yet been suggested, like, for instance, motivating Sansa to be a stronger character who takes more control of her own destiny than she has to this point in the series.)

 

[IrishinTN]

anyone else think first/ealry scene of the next episode will be reek/theon "snapping out of it" in the room and killing ramsay, and taking sansa out of there?

Although that's what all of us want, considering next week's previews that is not what happens. It appears they have fully bought in to Sansa becoming "Jeyne Poole", who everyone ends up pitying. My guess is when the North shows up to march with Roose Bolton, her plight becomes known to them which will push them to rebelling against the Boltons and the chamber maids (spear wives?) and Reek will help Sansa escape. Maybe even Mance will be there and we'll find out that the Red Witch used a spell to hide who they really burned after all.

 

[Corry]

Just when you thought you've heard it all. Something like this comes along and makes your question everything.

Eddard Stark's Other Bastard ~ Tower of the Hand

 

[wizards8507]

Just when you thought you've heard it all. Something like this comes along and makes your question everything.

Eddard Stark's Other Bastard ~ Tower of the Hand

Well shit.

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[ND NYC]

what is the theory? all I saw was bunch of quotes from the books, and the comments...was I on right page?

 

[IrishLion]

what is the theory? all I saw was bunch of quotes from the books, and the comments...was I on right page?

You have to adjust the "scope" setting at the top of the page to see the full theory.

 

[Emcee77]

I like the Blackfyre theory better.

 

[ND NYC]

so wylla=ashara...and e+a=aegon?

 

[wizards8507]

so wylla=ashara...and e+a=aegon?

No, Lemore = Ashara. Wylla = Wylla.

E + A = Aegon and R + L = J

Aegon could theoretically wield Dawn as the Sword of the Morning (which might be Lightbringer) as the PWWP. Rob Stark's edict, if phrased as the legitimization of "Ned Stark's bastard" rather than "Jon Snow" by name, would make him Aegon Stark, heir to Winterfell. If it turns out that Rheagar and Lyanna had been married, Jon Snow would be Jon Targaryen and have a claim to the Iron Throne that supersedes Dany's.

 

[ND NYC]

No, Lemore = Ashara. Wylla = Wylla.

E + A = Aegon and R + L = J

Aegon could theoretically wield the Sword of the Morning (which might be Lightbringer) as the PWWP. Rob Stark's edict, if phrased as the legitimization of "Ned Stark's bastard" rather than "Jon Snow" by name, would make him Aegon Stark, heir to Winterfell. If it turns out that Rheagar and Lyanna had been married, Jon Snow would be Jon Targaryen and have a claim to the Iron Throne that supersedes Dany's.

got it.

Lemore was the woman on the boat and subsequent travels with the "Young griff crew", correct?

how is this the first time this theory is being put out there?
sure makes a lot of sense to me.
and still sets it up for Jon to end up on top in the end (if he isn't dead already)

 

[IrishinTN]

ND NYC, I'm glad you asked because I was all kinds of confused. Thanks for the interpretation, Wizard.

So all this being said leads to the train of thought that Jon Snow can truly be the King on the Iron Throne legitimately, then, right? Of course, Robert Baratheon never was, but that didn't stop him. Only a drunken boar hunt did that.

 

[IrishinTN]

ND NYC, I'm glad you asked because I was all kinds of confused. Thanks for the interpretation, Wizard.

So all this being said leads to the train of thought that Jon Snow can truly be the King on the Iron Throne legitimately, then, right? Of course, Robert Baratheon never was, but that didn't stop him. Only a drunken boar hunt did that.

 

[ND NYC]

is it possible that R+L could have gotten married? when could that have taken place?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

is it possible that R+L could have gotten married? when could that have taken place?

Any time after Lyanna absconded with Rhaegar? There are septs and septons in virtually every town and city in Westeros. It's frequently speculated that "waking a dragon from stone" refers to Jon finding proof of his royal lineage in Lyanna's tomb-- Rhaegar's harp and/or the Targaryen cloak he would have given to Lyanna at their marriage.

 

[wizards8507]

Generally a pretty mundane episode. Embarrassing that they had to work in a completely unnecessary Bronn-was-poisoned arc as a way to get some bewbs in.

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[NDinMich]

Totally forgot this was on tonight. Show has gone from can't miss to a chore for me.

 

[Irish YJ]

Generally a pretty mundane episode. Embarrassing that they had to work in a completely unnecessary Bronn-was-poisoned arc as a way to get some bewbs in.

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bewbs are good

 

[wizards8507]

bewbs are good

So is coherent storytelling. They've abandoned one for the other.

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[IrishinTN]

sorry..what's a bewb?

 

[IrishinSyria]

Generally a pretty mundane episode. Embarrassing that they had to work in a completely unnecessary Bronn-was-poisoned arc as a way to get some bewbs in.

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Not so fast on the unnecessary part. I'd assume the sand snakes will (unfortunately) be fighting again at some point down the road. When somebody important gets cut, it's not going to seem so random when he also gets poisoned.

 

[wizards8507]

sorry..what's a bewb?

Term of derision used to mock D&D for throwing in nudity where it doesn't belong because they're too lazy to write smart dialogue and would rather appeal to the teenage boy demographic.

Not so fast on the unnecessary part. I'd assume the sand snakes will (unfortunately) be fighting again at some point down the road. When somebody important gets cut, it's not going to seem so random when he also gets poisoned.

Everyone knows the Sand Snakes use poison weapons. Their father was the freaking Red Viper.

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[pkt77242]

Term of derision used to mock D&D for throwing in nudity where it doesn't belong because they're too lazy to write smart dialogue and would rather appeal to the teenage boy demographic.

Everyone knows the Sand Snakes use poison weapons. Their father was the freaking Red Viper.

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How would people who only watch the show know that they use poisoned weapons? I can almost guarantee you that my wife wouldn't have known unless I had told her or from the scene in the show.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Term of derision used to mock D&D for throwing in nudity where it doesn't belong because they're too lazy to write smart dialogue and would rather appeal to the teenage boy demographic.

Everyone knows the Sand Snakes use poison weapons. Their father was the freaking Red Viper.

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I thought it was obvious too, but a lot of non-booklearners didn't pick up on it.

 

[wizards8507]

How would people who only watch the show know that they use poisoned weapons? I can almost guarantee you that my wife wouldn't have known unless I had told her or from the scene in the show.

The camera lingered on Bronn's arm for a looong time, and it was more than once that the Sand Snakes explicitly reiterated "we are the daughters of Oberyn Martell" for anyone who had forgotten. Not to mention they included it in the "previously on Game of Thrones" bit, which routinely goes overboard pointing out "HEY REMEMBER THIS!? IT'S IMPORTANT!" Completely spoiled Stannis saving the night's watch among other things.

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[IrishinTN]

The Sansa storyline has to take a good turn some time soon, or they are really going to lose people. My friend said he may not even renew HBO after this becase he doesn't like the direction the stories are taking, and he has never read the books.

Since this is the "spoiler alert" thread, does anyone else think the clifhangers for this year's final episode will be:
Jon stabbed
Arya blind
Sansa saved
Daenarys married