'13 OH QB Malik Zaire (Notre Dame Early Enrollee)

tussin

Well-known member
Messages
4,153
Reaction score
1,982
I asked this question in the Golson thread, but why can every other power program in the country plug inexperienced talent into their roster year after year and have them immediately produce except Notre Dame? Why, only at Notre Dame, is experience a prerequisite for production?

Good question, I was thinking about this myself.

I don't think it is fair to assume that Kizer will be awful if he needs to play. The guy was/is extremely talented. If other schools can plug and chug, so can ND. Heck, Kelly did it at Cinci.
 

woolybug25

#1 Vineyard Vines Fan
Messages
17,677
Reaction score
3,018
I asked this question in the Golson thread, but why can every other power program in the country plug inexperienced talent into their roster year after year and have them immediately produce except Notre Dame? Why, only at Notre Dame, is experience a prerequisite for production?

It's not. It's just perception. We had a depth issue at Notre Dame when BK came in (evidenced by our backup being a 3* true freshman at QB). Our scenario is filled with blue chip talent. People are just being gun shy from previous history at the position.
 

Irish Insanity

Well-known member
Messages
9,885
Reaction score
584
Kizer.... Kizer is the backup...

Last time I checked, the most important thing is how we compare to our competition.

Dammit. Must've had Wimbush on my mind. Kizer is definitely the back up.

Absolutely correct. However the discussion I believe was about where we are today as opposed to this time yesterday with our back up situation. And compared to our past back ups.
 

NDohio

Well-known member
Messages
5,869
Reaction score
3,060
I asked this question in the Golson thread, but why can every other power program in the country plug inexperienced talent into their roster year after year and have them immediately produce except Notre Dame? Why, only at Notre Dame, is experience a prerequisite for production?

I agree for the most part. I think the fact that it is QB makes it more difficult(this is true at other schools too though), and I do think there is something to be said about a freshman being overwhelmed with the academic side at ND whereas this is not so much of an issue at football factories. Those freshman can spend more time concentrating on football.

I think Kizer is going to be an OK back-up. Unlike you, I was just really looking forward to seeing what EG and MZ were going to do this year. I think it would have been spectacular.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
Who can plug in a true freshman quarterback and expect him to play?
 

wizards8507

Well-known member
Messages
20,660
Reaction score
2,661
Unlike you, I was just really looking forward to seeing what EG and MZ were going to do this year. I think it would have been spectacular.
What do you mean "unlike me"? If I thought there had been any chance of seeing both EG and MZ, I would have been all for it. I just didn't trust Kelly on this particular issue and my gut said that if Golson was on the team, Golson would be the starter at the expense of MZ (and the future of the program).
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
Well Malik is a RS sophomore and Kizer is a redshirt freshman so that's not our situation.

I know, agree and understand! In this thread and another, other poster keep wondering why some schools (read OSU) can plug and play new starters. Maybe they were under the misunderstanding that these kids hadn't had a couple of years in the program, or maybe that were under the mis-impression that these kids didn't have a less sophisticated offense (off the bat), dumbed down for them.
 

BleedBlueGold

Well-known member
Messages
6,265
Reaction score
2,489
I asked this question in the Golson thread, but why can every other power program in the country plug inexperienced talent into their roster year after year and have them immediately produce except Notre Dame? Why, only at Notre Dame, is experience a prerequisite for production?

I went fishing recently with a former Auburn defensive coach and this subject got brought up when I asked him about BVG and Notre Dame. He had a few things to say at first:

1) BVG's defenses are extremely complex
2) But the kids at ND are bright and intelligent and can generally pick up on nuances quicker than those with any kind of learning disability or lesser IQ
3) However, the kids at ND don't have as much "free time" as they are spending more of it studying for classes, etc instead of studying film or the playbook

This brings me to the point I've been trying to make for years...While ND football is loaded with athletic "brainiacs" (compared to most other programs as a whole), these kids probably would benefit from simpler schemes as they have less time to spend studying playbooks and studying film.

Something we've all noticed during the Weis and now BK eras is that they have relatively complex systems and put a lot of pressure on kids to learn the system or get left behind. Every once in a while you'll hear talk about "dumbing down" the playbook if a younger player needs to play faster (there are numerous examples), but why not just run a simpler system as a whole and benefit the entire program. This is college, not the NFL. Sometimes you just have to let the athletes play. Experience shouldn't always be a prereq. for playing time and/or success on the field.

To add: Malik doesn't have loads of experience. But the playbook was simpler for him in the LSU game and he excelled. EG had more experience, thus the staff put more on his plate, he got overwhelmed, and played horribly at times. Perhaps there's something to the KISS rule and experience isn't the be all, end all.
 
Last edited:

NDohio

Well-known member
Messages
5,869
Reaction score
3,060
What do you mean "unlike me"? If I thought there had been any chance of seeing both EG and MZ, I would have been all for it. I just didn't trust Kelly on this particular issue and my gut said that if Golson was on the team, Golson would be the starter at the expense of MZ (and the future of the program).

Sorry - I really did mean to put "unlike you" in italics and didn't go back and do it. It was supposed to be a play on the post you made yesterday in the EG thread celebrating his decision. Sorry 'bout that.
 

Ndaccountant

Old Hoss
Messages
8,370
Reaction score
5,771
That's really what I'm asking. Not that ND is incapable, but that ND is perceived as such.

My take:

It's how the coaches talk in the media. How many times did we hear about EG getting a "limited playbook" early on? How many times did we have to hear about Max not being able to align on defense? GB not being able to pass pro? I can go on and on.

I think there is a tendency for ND fans to hear and talk about the negative attribute of players instead of the positives (Fuller being a great example). The sound clips that we hear or the headlines that we read often start with how the coaching staff explains away problems on the field.

This is probably a results of a few things:
1 - Selective hearing by ND fans
2 - Selective writing in the media
3 - Coaches trying to explain away disappointing performances
4 - Fans following a team closely and not realizing the same issues occur for other teams

To be clear, I do think there is some merit to the point that ND does struggles with this. I do think it's a result of typically having a front loaded schedule as well as players not having as much time to focus on football as players on different teams. Since, you know, ND "plays" school and all.
 

Armyirish47

Well-known member
Messages
1,439
Reaction score
1,083
I also think this decluttering of the depth chart can give the staff a chance to reset quarterback recruiting. If their was concern of Kizer transferring his ascension to #2 should take that off the table, and if Wimbush is as good as advertised after his redshirt year he will have a clear path to QB1 (directly through Kizer, but still). By bringing in an athlete who can play other positions as a QB recruit in '16 the staff can create excellent spacing for their run at Hunter Johnson in '17.
 

ulukinatme

Carr for QB 2025!
Messages
31,516
Reaction score
17,382
I went fishing recently with a former Auburn defensive coach and this subject got brought up when I asked him about BVG and Notre Dame. He had a few things to say at first:

1) BVG's defenses are extremely complex
2) But the kids at ND are bright and intelligent and can generally pick up on nuances quicker than those with any kind of learning disability or lesser IQ
3) However, the kids at ND don't have as much "free time" as they are spending more of it studying for classes, etc instead of studying film or the playbook

This brings me to the point I've been trying to make for years...While ND football is loaded with athletic "brainiacs" (compared to most other programs as a whole), these kids probably would benefit from simpler schemes as they have less time to spend studying playbooks and studying film.

Something we've all noticed during the Weis and now BK eras is that they have relatively complex systems and put a lot of pressure on kids to learn the system or get left behind. Every once in a while you'll hear talk about "dumbing down" the playbook if a younger player needs to play faster (there are numerous examples), but why not just run a simpler system as a whole and benefit the entire program. This is college, not the NFL. Sometimes you just have to let the athletes play. Experience shouldn't always be a prereq. for playing time and/or success on the field.

To add: Malik doesn't have loads of experience. But the playbook was simpler for him in the LSU game and he excelled. EG had more experience, thus the staff put more on his plate, he got overwhelmed, and played horribly at times. Perhaps there's something to the KISS rule and experience isn't the be all, end all.

I agree. I've made similar points in the past. All the time we hear about how complex the playbook is, whether it was with Kelly, or one of his coordinators, or even with Weis that was a point I think. Why does it need to be complex? There certainly is a lot on the plates of these players. It might behoove us to keep is simple and work on the execution rather than just getting exposure in a large, complex playbook.
 

SoDakDomer

New member
Messages
403
Reaction score
21
I also think this decluttering of the depth chart can give the staff a chance to reset quarterback recruiting. If their was concern of Kizer transferring his ascension to #2 should take that off the table, and if Wimbush is as good as advertised after his redshirt year he will have a clear path to QB1 (directly through Kizer, but still). By bringing in an athlete who can play other positions as a QB recruit in '16 the staff can create excellent spacing for their run at Hunter Johnson in '17.

If we actually commit to the read option and run our QB, more than likely each season the backup QB is going to have to take meaningful snaps. I would think that may decrease the chance of a backup transferring.
 

PANDFAN

Look Down
Messages
16,770
Reaction score
2,278
n Thursday morning, Kelly received answers to both those questions following a meeting with quarterback Everett Golson.

Junior quarterback Malik Zaire will direct the Irish offense in 2015. And with the starting quarterback in place, there won’t be any doubt about the team’s offensive identity when preseason camp begins in August.

The offense was always going to be tailored toward the starting quarterback, like it was when Zaire started in the Music City Bowl. A run-oriented attack churned out 263 yards and ate up the clock in the Irish’s 31-28 win. Kelly’s play calling in Nashville left no doubt about what the Irish are capable of if they run the football. The player who led the offense that afternoon will be under center when Notre Dame kicks off against Texas on Sept. 5.

The zone read will play a more prevalent role in the offense. It already took up a noticeable chunk of time in spring practice sessions open to the media, and it allows the 6-foot, 222-pound Zaire to utilize his powerful yet elusive running style against opponents. By taking advantage of its ground game, Notre Dame is making the most of the deepest and largest offensive line Kelly’s had in his six-year tenure.

There will be a wealth of carries to go around between running backs C.J. Prosise, Tarean Folston and Greg Bryant if the Irish do put a large amount of emphasis on the rushing attack. And with a first-string quarterback determined, newly hired offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach Mike Sanford can use his time to work out kinks in Zaire’s passing game.

The coaching staff wants to see improvements made in Zaire’s consistency and throwing mechanics. Sanford noted in April the Kettering, Ohio, native sometimes places his feet too far apart and has too wide of a base. He needs to continue to work on downfield passes. But Kelly and the coaching staff will place their full trust in Zaire. At this point, there isn’t another option behind the junior.

Redshirt freshman DeShone Kizer and incoming freshman Brandon Wimbush are Notre Dame’s options if Zaire is at any point unable to play. Neither has any playing experience at the college level, yet one of the two is a play away from holding Notre Dame’s season in his hands.

At 6-foot-5, 230 pounds, Kizer has the most size of any Irish quarterback under Kelly since Dayne Crist. Kizer, who threw for 2,847 yards and rushed for another 539 in his senior season at Central (Ohio) Catholic, will be looking over his shoulder closely in August when Wimbush arrives.

The St. Peter’s (New Jersey) Prep signal caller is no longer a lock to redshirt. With an inexperienced second option at quarterback Wimbush isn’t far from the field, but he must first digest the Irish offense.

Right now, the best suited to run Notre Dame’s offense the way Kelly wants wears No. 8. And when organized team activities start in June, Zaire will morph the offense into what the coaching staff wants to see against Texas.

“We want to have an identity when we come into camp,” Kelly said after the Blue-Gold game. “We've got to play Texas, Virginia and Georgia Tech right out of the gate. We have to have an identity of who we are. We can't wait four or five weeks to find out oh, well, we're a running team, we're a passing team, we're this, we're that.”

Golson gave Kelly an answer by removing his name from contention. The direction of Notre Dame’s offense is clear, and it starts on the ground.
247
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
I think it was funny in Keith's blog, how he gave credit to EG for throwing the bomb to Will Fuller!

In my opinion, 98% of us have no idea of the capabilities of our quarterbacks, (yes, those remaining on the roster.)
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
I don't know if this was already posted somewhere but I thought it was a good take on the situation by Pete Sampson: Notre Dame Fighting Irish Football, Basketball, and Recruiting Front Page

Good article. Great points to consider. But I think a few things were missing.

Kelly gets myopic no doubt. He pushes some kids past their point of maximum efficiency, to achieve an end.

Some of those times he would be better looking for, or to, the next in line. That is why some of his quarterbacks look so bad when they move forward outside his system. They have been out-performing their natural best.

Others can't work in the Kelly system. That has more to do with BK's micromanagement, which I see as one of the biggest things keeping ND from the playoffs. I think that was addressed by Fr Jenkins and Jack Swarbrick this year, and has resulted in a reshuffling of the staff which has done two important things :

Taken BK out of the day to day coaching or Quarterbacks, and put Mike Sanford firmly in; and,

Taken BK away from micromanaging elements of the program, by putting him where he needs to be, in the CEO chair. In the CEO chair only!
 
Last edited:

irishff1014

Well-known member
Messages
26,509
Reaction score
9,285
I haven't said Much on this topic just trying to figure out how I feel. I liked EG but last season his attitude and they way he carried himself really didn't sit well with me. Yes some of the faults we others mistakes but he didn't help himself either. I do think this proves that him and kelly weren't as tight as some thought.

On to Ziare now. I think the running game improves with the misdirection plays and his running ability. I don't think he WRs will have the chance to make the long catches for huge gains. But I wouldnt be surprised to see a lot of 10-12 yard slants and high percentage throws like that and let the Wrs make his nimbers more then they are. But I am nervous to see what the season holds for us. I wonder how long Kiser is the fan favorite?
 

ulukinatme

Carr for QB 2025!
Messages
31,516
Reaction score
17,382
People keep saying Zaire can't throw deep. Is 60 yards not enough of a deep ball? Seriously, how often does a QB throw that far in a season? If Zaire has a problem it's probably accuracy on some of the short and medium throws, but I've seen worse QBs in that department. He's not as polished of a passer, but not every QB needs to be pinpoint accurate every pass to be successful. Both Everett and Zaire, for the limited reps he had, wound up with 60% completion percentage and Everett's yards a completion was just slightly higher.

There's also this: If Zaire is chucking the ball the nice thing is the further you're throwing it the less accurate you need to be as a decent receiver can adjust a bit to compensate while the ball is in the air. As long as Kelly plays it right next season and doesn't come out with 40 passes a game in mind like he did during Tommy's run we can be very successful offensively.
 
Last edited:

BleedBlueGold

Well-known member
Messages
6,265
Reaction score
2,489
People keep saying Zaire can't throw deep. Is 60 yards not enough of a deep ball? Seriously, how often does a QB throw that far in a season? If Zaire has a problem it's probably accuracy on some of the short and medium throws, but I've seen worse QBs in that department. He's not as polished of a passer, but not every QB needs to be pinpoint accurate every pass to be successful. Both Everett and Zaire, for the limited reps he had, wound up with 60% completion percentage and Everett's yards a completion was just slightly higher.

There's also this: If Zaire is chucking the ball the nice thing is the further you're throwing it the less accurate you need to be as a decent receiver can adjust a bit to compensate while the ball is in the air. As long as Kelly plays it right next season and doesn't come out with 40 passes a game in mind like he did during Tommy's run we can be very successful offensively.

If BK is calling a game....It's every third play.
 

Big23Head

Well-known member
Messages
3,635
Reaction score
318
SBT: Amid Golson transfer frenzy, Zaire plots his own happy ending at ND

Perhaps the most intriguing postscript in the Everett Golson-to-Florida State media feeding frenzy Tuesday was that the quarterback left standing at the top of the Notre Dame depth chart wasn’t particularly surprised it all ended this way.

With an intense, open quarterback audition truncated by a transfer.

At least that’s what junior Malik Zaire shared with his high school coach, Kettering Archbishop Alter’s Ed Domsitz, when the two visited multiple times over the past week during Zaire’s return home to the Dayton, Ohio, suburb.

Zaire also shared, when pressed by his former coach, that he never considered a transfer of his own, even though Zaire did admit to stewing over having to sit until late November while Golson struggled last season.

“I asked him about it all the time: ‘Are you happy with the situation at Notre Dame? How are your classes? How are you doing academically?’ ” Domsitz said in a telephone interview Tuesday. “And he never wavered on that in any conversation we ever had, always answering, ‘I’m in the right place.’

“Now in the recesses of his mind, when he was alone in his room or whatever, I don’t know. But I even brought up to him last week, that if he had chosen Ohio State out of high school, he likely would have been in the middle of that mix last year at quarterback.

“But he had no misgivings. Notre Dame is where he wants to be, and he’s very aware of the opportunity that’s now ahead of him.”

Collegiate start No. 2 and career pass attempt No. 36 for Zaire is a little more than 100 days away, when Texas visits for the prime-time season opener (7:30 EDT) Sept. 5 at Notre Dame Stadium.

Roughly 900 miles to the south and a half an hour later, Golson and the Seminoles will take the field against Texas State, a game currently slated to be televised on ESPNews.

Assuming Golson wins the Seminoles’ job over the five other scholarship QBs on the FSU roster, as coach Jimbo Fisher insists he will be required to do to get the keys to the offense, the inevitable comparisons will likely be at their oversaturated best when the teams play four common opponents: Boston College, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest and Clemson.

A coach familiar with both quarterbacks, but who asked to remain anonymous, said Golson was the more advanced, more skilled passer, but that what Zaire is able to do with his legs “will open up things in the passing game Golson was unable to in Brian Kelly’s offense.”

That script played out in 2009, when Zach Collaros was pressed into action for Kelly at Cincinnati after starter Tony Pike suffered an injury to his non-throwing arm during the Bearcats’ unbeaten regular season.

Collaros made four starts, then tag-teamed with Pike when he returned from the injury.
Pike, the superior passer, finished 12th nationally in pass efficiency that season (149.8).
Collaros, who didn’t have enough pass attempts to qualify for the national rankings, ended up with a 195.5 rating.

That’s more than 30 points higher than 2009 pass-efficiency champ Tim Tebow (164.2), who edged out Boise State’s Kellen Moore and Notre Dame’s three-and-out QB, Jimmy Clausen.

But Zaire will have to evolve. Collaros, the next two seasons — albeit for a different coaching staff, with Kelly moving on to Notre Dame — wasn’t able to get above the 138.0 mark either season.

Domsitz sees a quarterback capable of doing that in Zaire, even though he played in a hybrid offense that married large doses of wishbone with some passing out of the shotgun.

“It’s not like he just had one target to look at, and if he wasn’t open, it was time to run,” Domsitz said. “Malik had a number of different check-downs. In other words, if No. 1 wasn’t open, he knew where No. 2 was, he knew where No. 3 was.”

Accuracy was consistent and arm strength underrated, the coach added.

“I think we all saw that in the Blue-Gold Game,” Domsitz said referring to a TD bomb from Zaire to Will Fuller.

‘When Malik has been in the situation where he knows that he’s the No. 1 guy, his focus peaks at that point. I think in the coming weeks you’ll see someone who’s going to study the game. He’s going to paying attention to detail.
“And he brings confidence. Lots of confidence. And it serves him well.”

Zaire has long been a big dreamer, but also has a history of backing it up. He first impressed Domsitz with his brash style between his fifth and sixth grade seasons attending Alter’s summer camp.

A little over two years later, Domsitz’s Alter team was getting set to kick off against city rival Fairmont High, with 7,000 fans in attendance. Zaire was one of them, but the eighth-grader had finagled his way onto the Alter sideline.

“I looked to my left, and there was Malik,” Domsitz said. ‘He said to me, ‘Someday I’m going to be in this game. I’m going to be playing for Alter and I’m going to be your quarterback.’

When he did become Domsitz’s quarterback, as a junior, he did so without the coach making his offense left-handed, by flipping his tackles or mirroring plays in the playbook, to accommodate the lefty thrower.

“He ran right and pitched right just as well as he ran left and pitched left,” Domsitz said. “The only thing we did that was a little bit of a change was sometimes moving a split end to the left side for a more natural throw.

“One thing you never want to sell short with Malik is his competitiveness or his toughness.”

The sleeping irony is that after the 2016 season, Zaire too will be eligible for a grad school-style, no-waiting transfer as Golson was this spring. And if he plays that fifth season in an Irish uniform, he will be just the second of six QBs since the grad school exemption was instituted in 2005 that faced that decision and returned.

That was Evan Sharpley in 2009. Dayne Crist, Andrew Hendrix and now Golson all transferred. Tyrone Willingham Era recruit Darrin Bragg simply moved on to the working world after getting the first and only playing time of his career in the final 72 seconds of his last home game, playing for Charlie Weis.

Luke Massa, a QB-turned-wide receiver/holder, did the same when a surgically repaired knee didn’t cooperate, though he did explore playing college basketball elsewhere for his fifth season before the surgery.

“This opportunity is what Malik has been waiting for, though not always patiently,’ Domsitz said. “Before the 2014 season, I said, ‘Look if I’m coach Kelly, I’m starting Golson.’

“I explained to Malik that if Kelly started Malik last season and things go sour in that first ballgame, you’d run the risk of your team saying, ‘Why the heck didn’t you start the kid who took us to the national championship?’

“On the other hand, if Golson didn’t do well, then Malik can come in, and it’s not quite the same kind of expectation. But he didn’t want to hear that. He believed that he was the best option to be out on the field.

‘Sometimes his competitiveness manifests itself in, let’s say, different ways. But it was never about wanting to be somewhere else with him. It was about getting his chance. And now that it’s here, I can’t see any way he’ll let it slip through his hands.”
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

A man gotta have a code
Messages
9,358
Reaction score
5,352
It hurts to lose Golson but Zaire sounds like the guy you want leading your team, at least mentally.

Let's hope he has a breakout year in 15!
 
Top