NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament (#3 Seed)

irishfan

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I hate being in the Kentucky bracket we have to get to the Elite Eight before that matters. Wichita State is horribly under seeded but playing them or Kansas isn't much of a difference IMO. Kansas has a rougher run at Sweet Sixteen than we do through Texas/Butler winner.

Duke can suck it. They are completely protected in their bracket. They will need it too. As the lowest 1 seed, why aren't they lined up to play KY in the Final Four instead of the CG?

Gonzaga has played nine games against tourney teams, including three against BYU, UCLA who shouldn't be in the field and AQ Texas Southern. They are 7-2 against that slate. Way too much credit for taking AZ to OT in early December.

Duke was the third overall #1 seed. Wisconsin was the fourth.

Duke did get a gimme region though. The only team I can see beating them is Iowa State although maybe we showed teams the blueprint to beating Duke so they could get upset earlier.
 

irishfan

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p>As one of my followers noted, surprised Notre Dame isn’t tipping off at 8 p.m. on ABC with Kirk Herbstreit on the call.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/577278230186500096">March 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Thought this was amusing. Game is 12:15 on Thursday on CBS. First real game of the Tournament.

We are favored by 12.5 as well.
 

NDGOLDEN

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p>As one of my followers noted, surprised Notre Dame isn’t tipping off at 8 p.m. on ABC with Kirk Herbstreit on the call.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/577278230186500096">March 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Thought this was amusing. Game is 12:15 on Thursday on CBS. First real game of the Tournament.

We are favored by 12.5 as well.

Oh great i think we all remember last time we had to play the first game of the tourney... Little different situation and not worried but would be nice to get win early then enjoy the rest of the round of 64
 

RDU Irish

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Duke was the third overall #1 seed. Wisconsin was the fourth.

Duke did get a gimme region though. The only team I can see beating them is Iowa State although maybe we showed teams the blueprint to beating Duke so they could get upset earlier.

Sorry - should have been 4th but committee made them #3 to put them as far away from KY as possible.

ISU can absolutely beat them using our blueprint. Let Okafor score a ton and shut everyone else out. Plus they have McKay who can run the floor better than Auguste.
 

irishfan

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Sorry - should have been 4th but committee made them #3 to put them as far away from KY as possible.

ISU can absolutely beat them using our blueprint. Let Okafor score a ton and shut everyone else out. Plus they have McKay who can run the floor better than Auguste.

Agreed they should have been 4th at the highest. There's arguments to be made for Arizona and UVA over Duke as well IMO.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Am I the only one that loves our half of the bracket?

Texas is trashy, and play selfishly.
Butler is efficient, but lacks athleticism from top to bottom.
Wichita state is not used to playing quality teams day after day.
Iu is lol.
Kansas is very very overrated and God only knows how they got a 2 seed over us.

But, with that said, we have a very favorable path to an elite 8 match-up against Kentucky.
 

NDGOLDEN

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Am I the only one that loves our half of the bracket?

Texas is trashy, and play selfishly.
Butler is efficient, but lacks athleticism from top to bottom.
Wichita state is not used to playing quality teams day after day.
Iu is lol.
Kansas is very very overrated and God only knows how they got a 2 seed over us.

But, with that said, we have a very favorable path to an elite 8 match-up against Kentucky.

No im with you man. I like our road to the elite eight. We play our game like we have been then our road should be pretty easy going. And then that kentuky game would be such a fun game to watch and i defiantly think we could beat them if we shoot well. That would be a fun fun game to watch.
 

Kingbish01

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Out of all the 3 seeds, I feel like we have the easiest path. I would rather go through KU than any other 2 seed. Also, in the very unlikely scenario where KY fails to make it to the elite 8, ND would be a final 4 lock.
 

ACamp1900

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KU, ND would be awesome for me... Always looked for that one, kind of like my Angels, Cardinals WS dream...
 

Ndaccountant

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Out of all the 3 seeds, I feel like we have the easiest path. I would rather go through KU than any other 2 seed. Also, in the very unlikely scenario where KY fails to make it to the elite 8, ND would be a final 4 lock.

Agree 100%.

Being Kentucky's bracket sucks, but let's be real here......If ND matches up with them it would be the best run in decades. Not worried so much about that but more about getting to Saturday.
 

Whiskeyjack

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538's Nate Silver just published an article titled "NCAA Men's Tournament Forcast: The Parity is Over":

Not long ago, in a galaxy not so far away from wherever Comcast placed truTV in your cable lineup, the era of the dominant men’s college basketball team was over. Last year, no team had more than a 15 percent chance of winning the NCAA men’s tournament, according to FiveThirtyEight’s pre-tournament forecast (Louisville was the best bet). In 2011, the nominal favorite was Duke, with a 22 percent chance. In 2012, it was Kentucky, at 27 percent, and in 2013, Louisville led with a 23 percent chance. While two of those favorites (Kentucky in 2012 and Louisville in 2013) happened to win, the lack of dominant teams left the door wide open for lower seeds to make a deep run, as No. 7 seed Connecticut did in winning last year’s national championship.

This year is much different — an echo from a bygone era of short-shorts and star players who actually played through their senior seasons. The Kentucky Wildcats are undefeated; they could become the first men’s team to finish the season undefeated since the 1976 Indiana Hoosiers. Kentucky has a 41 percent chance of winning it all, according to our forecast — about double what we’ve seen from front-runners in recent years.

There’s not a lot to critique in the Wildcats’ résumé. While the SEC is not a terrific basketball conference, Kentucky played a reasonable non-conference schedule and won 13 games against other NCAA tournament teams. The Wildcats rank first in all but one of the computer power ratings that the FiveThirtyEight model uses and a close second in the other. They were last year’s national runner-up and the preseason No. 1. They have all the talent in the world, including three possible NBA lottery picks.

But a 41 percent chance isn’t all that high. It remains more likely than not that Kentucky will stumble at some point along the way and won’t win the national championship.

What could go wrong? Some of it is the unforgiving mathematics of a 68-team tournament.

The Wildcats will be a favorite in every game they play for the rest of the year, but they’ll be playing some capable basketball teams. The odds of running into a streak shooter, or having a game in which they miss some free throws down the stretch, are fairly high.

Let’s get more specific. Below, I’ve tallied Kentucky’s chances of winning each round of the tournament, according to our model (the rightmost column). I’ve also listed the Wildcats’ chances of winning each round conditional on them having survived the previous round. So in the conditional column, we’re fast-forwarding the tournament and assuming that Kentucky wins at each stage. For instance, Kentucky has about an 85 percent chance of winning its Elite Eight game and advancing to the Final Four, provided that it’s made it that far.

silver-feature-madness-5-micah.png


Kentucky is at least a 73 percent favorite in every round. It’s not in an especially tough region, and the team will be able to stay close to home, needing to travel no more than 282 miles from campus (the distance from Lexington, Kentucky, to Cleveland, Ohio, home of the Midwest regional) to win the tournament.

But even with the odds stacked in Kentucky’s favor, winning six consecutive games won’t be easy.

And there are some other excellent teams in this tournament. Suppose that because of some clerical error, Kentucky’s spot in the tournament instead went to Northern Kentucky, which went 13-17 in something called the Atlantic Sun Conference. In that case, the five teams with the next-best chances — Arizona, Duke, Villanova, Virginia and Wisconsin — would collectively have a 68 percent chance of winning the title. That’s better than the cumulative 54 percent chance that the top five teams had last year.

In other words, this would be a top-heavy tournament even without Kentucky. While there’s not a clear No. 2 after the Wildcats, the teams ranked from second through sixth or seventh nationally (in some order) are a strong group, a bit stronger than we’ve seen in the most recent men’s tournaments.

So let’s explore the field region by region. For each one, I’ve listed each team’s rating according to the seven ratings systems that the FiveThirtyEight model averages to generate its forecasts. The rankings from each system are normalized so as to make them directly comparable.

Five of the seven systems are computer rankings, and they tend to produce highly similar results. It will usually be more interesting to compare the computer rankings with the two human-generated polls: where a team ranked in the preseason (teams that overachieve during the regular season have a history of reverting to the mean in the tournament) and where it placed on the selection committee’s 68-team S-curve. Teams with higher S-curve ratings than computer ratings are potentially overseeded; teams with higher computer ratings than S-curve ratings are possibly underseeded.

The charts will also show the adjustment our model applies for injuries and player absences. Usually this has a negative effect, but it can be positive if the team is healthier now than it was during the regular season — as Maryland and Virginia are, for instance. We’ll start with Kentucky’s region, the Midwest:

silver-feature-madness-2.png


While the Wildcats may not quite have even odds of winning the national championship, they are more likely than not (a 72 percent chance) to reach the Final Four.

Kentucky has a favorable draw, but some of that is by the committee’s design. The best No. 1 seed — Kentucky this year — is theoretically supposed to be paired with the worst No. 2, and the committee made good on that by placing Kansas in Kentucky’s region. While Kansas has an entirely respectable record for a No. 2 seed, it ranks behind the other No. 2 seeds (Virginia, Arizona and Gonzaga) by the metrics we track.

Kentucky also faces a relatively easy Sweet 16 game. Maryland and West Virginia, the No. 4 and 5 seeds in the Midwest, are both slightly overseeded, according to our model.

Dark horses in the Midwest include Wichita State and Texas, which are badly underseeded as No. 7 and No. 11, respectively. Even there, however, Kentucky catches something of a break. It can’t face either the Shockers or the Longhorns until the Elite Eight.

But while the draw is reasonably favorable for Kentucky, there’s one potential glitch. In the national semifinal, it will be due to face the winner of the West region. And the West is probably the strongest in the tournament this year:

silver-feature-madness-41.png


In fact, the top two seeds in the West — Wisconsin and Arizona — rank as the second and third best teams nationally, according to our composite ratings. The No. 2 seed, Arizona, actually rates slightly higher than Wisconsin; Arizona is also the only team ahead of Kentucky in any of the seven systems we track (Arizona rates slightly ahead of Kentucky in Sonny Moore’s power ratings.).

Still, these are marginal differences. (Arizona’s composite power rating is 94.7 while Wisconsin’s is 94.1, which means that Arizona would be favored by less than a point on a neutral court.) So why does the model give Arizona a considerably better chance — 46 percent against Wisconsin’s 33 percent — of reaching the Final Four? Some of it has to do with each team’s Sweet 16 matchup. Wisconsin’s prospective opponent (No. 4 seed North Carolina) rates as being stronger than Arizona’s (No. 3 seed Baylor). But the geography also works in Arizona’s favor; the regional final will be played in Los Angeles.

There’s not much depth in the West after the top four seeds. But one potential exception is the No. 10 seed, Ohio State, which is as strong as a typical No. 5 seed by the computer ratings even though Aaron Craft finally graduated.

silver-feature-madness-1.png


Villanova is the second-most-likely team to win the national championship. That’s a bit misleading; there’s a huge gap between Kentucky (41 percent) and Villanova (11 percent) and a tiny one between Villanova and the next-most-likely champions (Wisconsin and Arizona, at 10 percent each). Still, Villanova will benefit from being on the opposite side of the bracket from Kentucky, Wisconsin and Arizona. Villanova does have a tough No. 2 seed in the East region in the form of Virginia, but there aren’t a lot of easy outs among the No. 2 seeds this year.

Virginia wasn’t done any favors by the committee, by contrast. No. 7 Michigan State, which knocked the Hoos out of the tournament last year, looms as their Round of 32 matchup. Like last year, MSU seems to have been underseeded, even before considering Tom Izzo’s history of postseason overachievement. Full disclosure: I’m from East Lansing.

The East region also features an unusual circumstance: The University of Dayton will get to play on its home court in its “play-in” game against the other No. 11 seed, Boise State. This is part of why our model considers Dayton a 73 percent favorite in that game despite having only a slightly stronger power rating than the Broncos.

silver-feature-madness-3.png


Last up is the South, the most wide-open region this year. Even as a member in good standing of the Christian Laettner Hate Club — we’re automatically enrolled in East Lansing — I don’t mean to disparage No. 1 seed Duke. One can question whether Duke deserved a No. 1 ahead of Arizona and Virginia, but that’s because the No. 2 seeds are really good this year. Duke would be a No. 1 without much question in most recent tournaments.

But the Blue Devils do potentially face a tough No. 2 of their own in Gonzaga. And they’ll have to win their Sweet 16 game to get there, where they may face No. 5 Utah, among the more underseeded teams in the tournament and a favorite against No. 4 Georgetown. The South also runs fairly deep: No. 8 San Diego State and No. 10 Davidson are tough outs, for instance.

What about the much-maligned No. 11 seed, UCLA? Actually, our forecasts suggest that the committee did just fine with that choice: UCLA’s computer ratings are right in line with its seed.

Either way, though, it probably won’t matter. Overall, this isn’t the best year for underdogs — the favorites are really something for a change.

Of the 3-seeds, only Baylor has a lower chance to making the Final Four.
 
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IrishLax

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What you need to ask yourself is "what is the goal"... if the goal is final four or championship, it sucks being where we are.

If the goal is elite 8, then I agree with everyone talking about our path because IMO Kansas is garbage. Not just "the worst 2"... they play like a 5 seed. I don't know if I've ever seen a more overrated team.
 

Ndaccountant

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What you need to ask yourself is "what is the goal"... if the goal is final four or championship, it sucks being where we are.

If the goal is elite 8, then I agree with everyone talking about our path because IMO Kansas is garbage. Not just "the worst 2"... they play like a 5 seed. I don't know if I've ever seen a more overrated team.

This.

We have a good draw to the elite 8 even if Final Four is a long shot.

That said, a mere week ago we all thought a sweet sixteen birth would be the goal, and I still think that is the case. If we do that, after winning the ACC tourney, I feel like we would be playing with house money.
 

Irish#1

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Just exchanged e-mails with a reporter who had info from the committee. ND was seeded a little lower than Oklahoma, Baylor and Iowa state to keep them as close to home as possible. Like it or not there's your reason.
 

Whiskeyjack

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Per Bovada.LV, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a> MBB has the eighth-best odds (25-1) at winning the NCAA Tourney, and best among 3 seeds. <a href="http://t.co/bYfC7ndjZp">pic.twitter.com/bYfC7ndjZp</a></p>— Eric Hansen (@EHansenNDI) <a href="https://twitter.com/EHansenNDI/status/577505663166840832">March 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
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NDGOLDEN

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Per Bovada.LV, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a> MBB has the eighth-best odds (25-1) at winning the NCAA Tourney, and best among 3 seeds. <a href="http://t.co/bYfC7ndjZp">pic.twitter.com/bYfC7ndjZp</a></p>— Eric Hansen (@EHansenNDI) <a href="https://twitter.com/EHansenNDI/status/577505663166840832">March 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Nice I like that. I cant believe they have us the best 3 seed even tho we are still in Kentucky region imagine if we were in another region wow
 

Woneone

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Bunch of Stuff

My thought at this point on Kentucky is this....

There is a formula to staying close, and the SEC had a few teams that were more equipped than others.

Below is a list of SEC teams and other relevant teams Kentucky played this year. I think that the team that will beat Kentucky (please God let someone beat them), well obviously have to be well-rounded on both ends. But, it's not just about Opponents PPG, as you can inflate/deflate that with pace of play. Along with that, you have to be good with regards to opponents FG%. You can't be one dimensional.

Numbers are Team National Ranking.

Opp. PPG Opp Effects FG% Team PPG Best Outcome +-
Bama 111 115 182 15
Arkansas 262 153 12 15
Auburn 306 298 160 24
Florida 24 58 248 7
Georgia 102 15 131 8
LSU 195 21 34 2
Miss State 101 130 288 18
Mizzu 215 179 319 16
Ole Miss 186 86 42 3 (OT without Moody)
South Carolina 63 24 229 15
Tenn 103 286 261 18
A&M 60 62 168 6 (Without Jalen Jones)
Vandy 94 77 101 8


Other Relevant Games
Texas 32 4 145 12 (Without Isaiah Taylor)
UNC 222 37 14 14
L'Ville 19 8 103 8
Kansas 119 16 58 A Lot
Providence 135 132 78 20 (Close until late 2nd half)



Potential Match-ups
Notre Dame 140 131 8
Maryland 85 40 92
UC 6 18 281
Purdue 110 43 80
WVU 161 301 29


To beat Kentucky, you can't be a "Gimmick" team (like an Arkansas or WVU). You have to be a solid all-around team. The SEC had very few of them, but those teams? LSU (Even though it's a higher Opp PPG), Ole Miss, Vandy, Texas A&M. All teams that gave Kentucky really good games. Georgia may be the most well balanced team on this list, and they gave Kentucky good games twice.

Out of conference? Louisville gave them a decent game. UNC actually cut it to single digits in the second half (and I believe that was the time frame where Paige was just awful). Texas didn't have their Point Guard and played them tough. I have no idea what happened to Kansas, other than being shell-shocked early and never getting back in it.

Looking ahead in the Tourney, Kentucky will potentially face 2 teams, one in the round of 32, one in the Sweet 16, that matches this trend. Purdue and Maryland. I actually really like Marylands chances if they get there. They get good guard play, have a stretch 4, and have some size (albeit Freshman). Purdue, not so much, but they are big enough and defend well enough to where I think they can hang.

This Kentucky team is a great team, but they are far from invincible. Their close games they usually score in the 70'ish range, give up 60. Their offensive numbers are inflated by some pretty horrible defensive teams (for example, scoring 110 on Auburn).

I'll take the field vs. Kentucky.
 

RDU Irish

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Jay Bilas can suck it. He gave me a definitive "YES" when I asked him if we earned a 2 seed at the ACC championship as he was leaving the floor. Then his bracket doesn't even have us getting past Wichita State. Classic Duke pander to the crowd dillweed.
 

Irish#1

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I agree that it will take a well balanced team, but we need to play very good defense as well. Our defense has gotten better, but it can still improve. My biggest concern on defense is not getting back on defense as quick as they should. That's where teams like UK can take advantage. If we're moving the ball around, we are hard to guard for any team. The harder they have to play D, the less effective their O.
 

Irish#1

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Nice I like that. I cant believe they have us the best 3 seed even tho we are still in Kentucky region imagine if we were in another region wow

We're not the best three seed. We're ranked the worst of the 3's.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Here's a cool interactive bracket from 538 that shows % chance of advancing by round.

Their model gives us a 90% chance of beating NEU and a 57% chance of beating Texas/ Butler. Those are good odds for making the Sweet 16.

Beyond that, it drops to 31% for making the Elite 8, 7% for the Final 4, 3% for the title game, 1% to win it all.
 

IrishSteelhead

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NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament (#3 Seed)

Here's a cool interactive bracket from 538 that shows % chance of advancing by round.

Their model gives us a 90% chance of beating NEU and a 57% chance of beating Texas/ Butler. Those are good odds for making the Sweet 16.

Beyond that, it drops to 31% for making the Elite 8, 7% for the Final 4, 3% for the title game, 1% to win it all.


The one on SI has ND at 0.7% chance to win it all, which is surprisingly 9th best odds overall.

IIRC, there's had UK @ 37%, Duke @ 12%, and U of A @ 11%.
 
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House16

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Mike Brey was walking around the dining hall today just talking to students. I asked him how bullshit it was that we got the last 3 seed:

"Yeah, I mean it was bullshit, I thought we should have been a 2, but we don't worry about that too much." Love that guy haha
 

LoveThee

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Hoping we can pull off something special. One more big and I feel like we could beat anyone.
 

Old Man Mike

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We need to:
1). play our normal brilliantly slick offensive game and
2). REBOUND OUR DEFENSIVE BOARD like we never did before.

Kentucky will not lose to anyone who cannot keep them to one-and-done.
 

AgentJ

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getting kentucky in the elite 8 is a GOOD THING.

everybody wants to stay away from them so you can last longer but if u truly believe u gon win that game then u want to play them at a strategic time. if nd plays uk in the final 4, bbn will FILL UP indianapolis crowd & hype wise (undefeated team finally about to happen). yeah the game is in indiana, but lets be honest, no matter how hype it gets nd is never going to compete with bbn filling lucas oil.

INSTEAD we get them in cleveland. a little bit harder to get to for bbn but nd fans can be that underdog that has a smaller but hyper crowd trying to beat those fucking cheating redneck assholes (sorry i fucking HATE kentucky). and when we win, well be going to the final four with it being HUGE. it would be the biggest win in ND history by far, and they would be continuing down us 31 in indianapolis. it would be an insane high for the program, instead of still having to knock down goliath.

WE WANT KENTUCKY- i mean northeastern

OR IF FOR SOME REASON EVERYONE GOT LOCKED IN A CHAMBER AT THE PURDUE-KENTUCKY GAME TO JUST TAKES CARE OF A LOT OF THE WORLDS PROBLEMS
 

irishfan

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getting kentucky in the elite 8 is a GOOD THING.

everybody wants to stay away from them so you can last longer but if u truly believe u gon win that game then u want to play them at a strategic time. if nd plays uk in the final 4, bbn will FILL UP indianapolis crowd & hype wise (undefeated team finally about to happen). yeah the game is in indiana, but lets be honest, no matter how hype it gets nd is never going to compete with bbn filling lucas oil.

INSTEAD we get them in cleveland. a little bit harder to get to for bbn but nd fans can be that underdog that has a smaller but hyper crowd trying to beat those fucking cheating redneck assholes (sorry i fucking HATE kentucky). and when we win, well be going to the final four with it being HUGE. it would be the biggest win in ND history by far, and they would be continuing down us 31 in indianapolis. it would be an insane high for the program, instead of still having to knock down goliath.

WE WANT KENTUCKY- i mean northeastern

OR IF FOR SOME REASON EVERYONE GOT LOCKED IN A CHAMBER AT THE PURDUE-KENTUCKY GAME TO JUST TAKES CARE OF A LOT OF THE WORLDS PROBLEMS

Another way to look at it is that any potential Elite 8 game would only give each team one day to prepare for the game. Our team seems to have a higher basketball IQ than most, so that could be to our advantage.
 
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