[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

[connor_in]

He said the snozzberries taste like snozzberries.

Gk cued it up?

Yep...

Ok then, roll it...

 

[Rhode Irish]

If the Pats security tapes they are talking about aren't available there will be more questions.

If there even are tapes. I'm having a harder and harder time trusting leaks from the League. They have a track record of planting straight bullshit. That isn't on Glazer, who is terrific. But they've given bad info to Peter King, Mort and whole bunch of others of "their" guys in the media. This leak was a clear response to Belichick, and Kraft's statement tonight was a clear response to the leak. This thing is getting wild.

 

[ab2cmiller]

If the Pats security tapes they are talking about aren't available there will be more questions.

Maybe they can borrow the IRS's strategy.

 

[irishfan]

I mean....now that Kraft has pushed all of his chips into the middle of the table (and that dude has A LOT of chips) I just think there is no way the Patriots could be doing this if the NFL has anything on them. It just isn't human nature. Maybe deny it, but to go to this extent? What would be the point if you thought there was any chance they could get you?

I will say this: if they are caught on video or something tampering with the balls after all this, there is almost no way I can go on being a fan of the team. I hate to say that, but seriously. How could you just flat out lie like this? I think too many Patriots fans feel that way for Kraft to go along with this unless he is sure. He has billions of his dollars on the line with this franchise.

This is either a power play to get the league to back off, or it is a full on dare to the league to come after them with their best shot. If the league comes at them, it could cost Brady his legacy, Belichick his career and Kraft a good part of his fortune. On the other hand, in the words of the late great Omar, if you come at the King you best not miss. If Goodell goes after the Patriots hard now and comes up empty, he can kiss the easiest and best job in the world goodbye. Kraft is his primary benefactor and maybe the only reason he is still the commissioner. My biggest concern in this before today was that Kraft would side with the league over his coach and QB if the league had them dead to rights.

This x100. Most casual fans outside of New England probably don't know how tight that Kraft and Goodell are. The fact that Kraft is going all-in on Brady/Belichick over his buddy Kraft is a HUGE deal. Belichick's presser on Saturday didn't make any sense unless they were 100% confident they did nothing wrong or that there was no evidence. This is more proof that the Patriots are confident that nothing will come of this.

You can call the Patriots cheaters all you want, but Belichick/Kraft care way too much about their reputations and legacies to pull moves like this without being certain the NFL can't prove any wrongdoing.

 

[Rhode Irish]

So they may drag this out until after the Super Bowl, but it is pretty much over: according to PFT, the Glazer video shows the ball boy bringing all 24 game balls (Pats and Colts) into a bathroom (no camera inside), where he stayed for 90 seconds. The video is a Patriots security video they voluntarily supplied to the League early last week.

So unless he admits to wrongdoing, nobody will ever be able to say for sure that the Patriots did anything to the balls. Either you believe a kid could (and would) pull 12 (or 11) balls out of a bag and deflate them all in 90 seconds, or you don't. Pats fans will say "no way" and everyone else will say "of course," but the NFL cannot possibly PROVE anything. You can now clearly see the strategy behind Belichick's press conference - they were trying to get an alternative explanation/narrative out before word of this leaked.

 

[irishfan]

So they may drag this out until after the Super Bowl, but it is pretty much over: according to PFT, the Glazer video shows the ball boy bringing all 24 game balls (Pats and Colts) into a bathroom (no camera inside), where he stayed for 90 seconds. The video is a Patriots security video they voluntarily supplied to the League early last week.

So unless he admits to wrongdoing, nobody will ever be able to say for sure that the Patriots did anything to the balls. Either you believe a kid could (and would) pull 12 (or 11) balls out of a bag and deflate them all in 90 seconds, or you don't. Pats fans will say "no way" and everyone else will say "of course," but the NFL cannot possibly PROVE anything. You can now clearly see the strategy behind Belichick's press conference - they were trying to get an alternative explanation/narrative out before word of this leaked.

Could the employee have fished 12 balls out of a fairly large bag, deflated each of them by two pounds, put them back into the bag, and exited the bathroom in roughly 90 seconds? That question will surely become the centerpiece of the next red state/blue state debate between folks who have determined that the Patriots have done something wrong and those who are staunchly defending the franchise.

Video shows employee taking 24 balls into bathroom | ProFootballTalk

Yep, over. This is the closest thing the NFL has to proof.

 

[FearTheBeard]

Cheating is cheating but damn this is blown out of proportion. Im hoping they get nothing on the patriots and it makes goodell look like even more of a dipshit than he is. Id love nothing more than to get him out of the nfl. Honestly whats the worst thats gonna happen even if they prove it? So they got the most minuscule advantage ever, big deal take a 5th rounder or something if you can actually prove it. The nfl has become a joke

 

[phillyirish]

So they may drag this out until after the Super Bowl, but it is pretty much over: according to PFT, the Glazer video shows the ball boy bringing all 24 game balls (Pats and Colts) into a bathroom (no camera inside), where he stayed for 90 seconds. The video is a Patriots security video they voluntarily supplied to the League early last week.

So unless he admits to wrongdoing, nobody will ever be able to say for sure that the Patriots did anything to the balls. Either you believe a kid could (and would) pull 12 (or 11) balls out of a bag and deflate them all in 90 seconds, or you don't. Pats fans will say "no way" and everyone else will say "of course," but the NFL cannot possibly PROVE anything. You can now clearly see the strategy behind Belichick's press conference - they were trying to get an alternative explanation/narrative out before word of this leaked.

Ugh, I hope you Pats fans realize how noble this "you can't prove anything" attitude is. Kinda like we can't prove Bama pays its players; but damn Derrick Henry, thats a nice '15 Dodge Challenger.

Oh, and I'll add the other common defense I see about putting all your chips, eggs, balls, etc on the line and how they wouldn't do it if they were hiding something. Literally just look at every other sports scandal and their responses, Lance Armstrong or Ryan Braun, anyone you name it. They all stair you in the eyes and lie through their teeth when defending themselves. Maybe the Pats are telling the truth in this incident, but their press conference demeanor doesn't act as any kind of evidence or strengthen their case.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I have to say, all I care about here is that they can't prove anything. Because the story is so dumb and should be so insignificant, I just feel like if we don't get hammered then over time the idea of this being some big scandal will recede appropriately.

 

[phork]

I have to say, all I care about here is that they can't prove anything. Because the story is so dumb and should be so insignificant, I just feel like if we don't get hammered then over time the idea of this being some big scandal will recede appropriately.

I agree. Fine the team $25K (as set out in the rulebook) per ball, drop a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick and call it a day.

 

[Monk]

I agree. Fine the team $25K (as set out in the rulebook) per ball, drop a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick and call it a day.

I like it

 

[gkIrish]

I mean....now that Kraft has pushed all of his chips into the middle of the table (and that dude has A LOT of chips) I just think there is no way the Patriots could be doing this if the NFL has anything on them. It just isn't human nature. Maybe deny it, but to go to this extent? What would be the point if you thought there was any chance they could get you?


I will say this: if they are caught on video or something tampering with the balls after all this, there is almost no way I can go on being a fan of the team. I hate to say that, but seriously. How could you just flat out lie like this? I think too many Patriots fans feel that way for Kraft to go along with this unless he is sure. He has billions of his dollars on the line with this franchise.

This is either a power play to get the league to back off, or it is a full on dare to the league to come after them with their best shot. If the league comes at them, it could cost Brady his legacy, Belichick his career and Kraft a good part of his fortune. On the other hand, in the words of the late great Omar, if you come at the King you best not miss. If Goodell goes after the Patriots hard now and comes up empty, he can kiss the easiest and best job in the world goodbye. Kraft is his primary benefactor and maybe the only reason he is still the commissioner. My biggest concern in this before today was that Kraft would side with the league over his coach and QB if the league had them dead to rights.

I have to say, all I care about here is that they can't prove anything. Because the story is so dumb and should be so insignificant, I just feel like if we don't get hammered then over time the idea of this being some big scandal will recede appropriately.

So you only think they did something unethical if they get caught on video? Barry Bonds wants you to call him.

 

[wizards8507]

Report: Patriots Employee Took 24 Footballs Into Bathroom For 90 Seconds | New England Patriots | NESN.com

That would be 7.5 seconds per football to deflate 12. No way.

 

[Wild Bill]

Report: Patriots Employee Took 24 Footballs Into Bathroom For 90 Seconds | New England Patriots | NESN.com

That would be 7.5 seconds per football to deflate 12. No way.

Maybe he's really good with balls.

 

[woolybug25]

Report: Patriots Employee Took 24 Footballs Into Bathroom For 90 Seconds | New England Patriots | NESN.com

That would be 7.5 seconds per football to deflate 12. No way.

I feel like I could deflate 11.5 (one wasn't deflated all of the way) with 7.5 seconds per ball.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Report: Patriots Employee Took 24 Footballs Into Bathroom For 90 Seconds | New England Patriots | NESN.com

That would be 7.5 seconds per football to deflate 12. No way.

Time enough to take a quick shat or a nice long piss.

 

[Bubbles]

Ugh, I hope you Pats fans realize how noble this "you can't prove anything" attitude is. Kinda like we can't prove Bama pays its players; but damn Derrick Henry, thats a nice '15 Dodge Challenger.

While I agree with this thought, you have to see the other side as well. If the alternative is unilateral punishment based on what someone 'thinks' may have happened, especially based on pressure from the general public.....I can't get on board with the mob mentality justice system.....regardless of the team involved.

 

[wizards8507]

I feel like I could deflate 11.5 (one wasn't deflated all of the way) with 7.5 seconds per ball.

If they were lined up in front of you on a rack or something sure. But if they're in a giant bin or bag and you have to dig through the pile for each one while keeping track of the ones you've already gotten and the ones you haven't?

ETA: Also, this game was AT Gillette Stadium. If mastermind BB was telling the ball boy to deflate the footballs on his way to the field, don't you think he would have directed him to a bathroom without video surveillance?

 

[Rhode Irish]

I feel like I could deflate 11.5 (one wasn't deflated all of the way) with 7.5 seconds per ball.

You couldn't, especially when you factor in time to get each ball into and out of a bag. But keep in mind, the kid wouldn't have been racing against the clock. He wasn't being timed. He never would have thought that the amount of time he was in the bathroom would matter. So the question isn't really whether you'd be able to, it is whether a person would actually go into a room; lock the door; get set up; remove, deflate and replace 12 footballs; close the bag; gather up your things; unlock the door and leave all within 90 seconds.

I think it is borderline absurd to suggest that is what happened, but I know how this will work. People who want the Patriots to be guilty will convince themselves that it is totally reasonable to think that is what happened. People who want to believe the Patriots didn't do anything wrong will say of course he couldn't have done it. Nobody will ever agree. Importantly though, the NFL will never be able to decisively prove the Patriots deflated the balls, so either they apologize like Kraft wants or Goodell may not be commissioner by the time the next season starts.

 

[koonja]

We should deflate our balls for Golson.

 

[irishfan]

Need a Sports Science breakdown on this. Or maybe all the NFL analysts can try doing it. They loved seeing if they could tell the difference between 2 PSI.

Or maybe Bill Nye can try delfating 12 balloons with laces drawn on them.

 

[woolybug25]

If they were lined up in front of you on a rack or something sure. But if they're in a giant bin or bag and you have to dig through the pile for each one while keeping track of the ones you've already gotten and the ones you haven't?

I assumed that if he was carrying around 24 game balls, that they were on a rack, not a big satchel.

ETA: Also, this game was AT Gillette Stadium. If mastermind BB was telling the ball boy to deflate the footballs on his way to the field, don't you think he would have directed him to a bathroom without video surveillance?

If this game wasn't at Gillette Stadium, don't you think that he would have better options than a bathroom?

 

[gkIrish]

There were not 24 balls in one satchel. That would make absolutely zero sense considering each team uses their own balls. My assumption is that there were two bags of 12 balls each.

 

[yankeeND]

So 8 days have gone by, several unconfirmed leaks, and still no concrete evidence of any wrong doing?

Haters hatin skrong! Keep trying though the jelly is shining through big time and I love it!

 

[wizards8507]

There were not 24 balls in one satchel. That would make absolutely zero sense considering each team uses their own balls. My assumption is that there were two bags of 12 balls each.

That's what I said.

 

[irishfan]

If this game wasn't at Gillette Stadium, don't you think that he would have better options than a bathroom?

Belichick probably has secret tunnels and chambers in every NFL stadium for this exact purpose.

 

[woolybug25]

So 8 days have gone by, several unconfirmed leaks, and still no concrete evidence of any wrong doing?

Haters hatin skrong! Keep trying though the jelly is shining through big time and I love it!

Really? Seems like Spygate went down this same road.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Report: Patriots Employee Took 24 Footballs Into Bathroom For 90 Seconds | New England Patriots | NESN.com

That would be 7.5 seconds per football to deflate 12. No way.

Very easy. It's takes very little time to drop a few psi. Take an inflation needle by itself. Pop it quickly in and out of each ball. Give it a 2 count. Done deal. Hell I could do it in a half the time. Especially if it's someone who is accustomed to handling the balls.

 

[gkIrish]

That's what I said.

I don't think it would be that hard although I don't think any old person could do it that fast. But I think someone who has deflated or inflated balls a lot could do it. Take one ball out, stick the needle in and deflate. I'm guessing the deflation itself only takes a second. Put the ball down on the ground. Pick up next ball. Repeat 11 times. Then put all the balls back in the bag. Maybe he forgot one or felt like he was taking too long.

We also don't know if this is the only opportunity he had.

 

[gkIrish]

I feel like Patriots fans have adopted their coach's double-down mentality.

If the original story was "11 of 12 NE balls deflated and video shows NE employee entering bathroom on the way to the field from referee locker room" I seriously doubt any of you would be defending the team the way you are. You are all just [understandably] reluctant to back down now.