Brianne Altice: Criminal or National Treasure?

[Ndaccountant]

Cuz she's hot.

Also, because she didn't just engage in a little sexual misconducted. She (allegedly) sexted, sexed, and (was) sodomized (by?) four students, even after being ordered to stop. She's the Wilt Chamberlain of sexual misconduct.

FIFY

 

[wizards8507]

Cuz she's hot.

Also, because she didn't just engage in a little sexual misconducted. She (allegedly) sexted, sexed, and (was) sodomized (by?) four students, even after being ordered to stop. She's the Barry Bonds of sexual misconduct.

Not to nitpick, but I think "sodomized" in this context refers to oral. Sodomy doesn't necessarily mean anal in a legal context.

 

[Irish#1]

I can imagine how hard it was for her to convince those young men to put it in her mouth.

 

[IrishinTN]

Not to nitpick, but I think "sodomized" in this context refers to oral. Sodomy doesn't necessarily mean anal in a legal context.

And they used the charge "forced sodomy" which suggests she made them do something they didn't want to. And sodomy isn't only oral sex on a man. She could have forced them to do it for her.

I just think the double-standard in all this is. I don't care if its a man or a woman doing it, neither one should be uplifted for it.

 

[IrishinSyria]

And they used the charge "forced sodomy" which suggests she made them do something they didn't want to. And sodomy isn't only oral sex on a man. She could have forced them to do it for her.

I just think the double-standard in all this is. I don't care if its a man or a woman doing it, neither one should be uplifted for it.

I think force is a term of art here though. It's forced because you need consent for non-forced sodomy, and a 17 year old can't give consent. I don't think she like grabbed them by their boyish locks and forced them to spend time at the Y.

 

[NCND]

A woman cannot "rape" a teen/man. I just don't believe that can happen.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Pretty much where I'm at. I cannot for the life of me understand what "harm" came to any of the "victims."

I mean that quite seriously... can someone please explain to me what tangible harm could've come to any of these guys per alleged actions? I'd change my mind if someone can make a good argument.

Not under the philosophical assumptions of modern liberalism. This situation exposes the absurdity of using "consent" as the sole lodestar of sexual ethics.

You are right, but this wasn't an isolated event with one kid. There are at least three. Two of the three were obviously unhappy with their current life and she knew it. If it was all about the sex, why not someone from the gym? Why not a co-worker? Why not a the kid that takes your ticket at the movie?

For the same reason that Lisa Ann picks up college football players. It's a reversal of the usual power dynamic.

I really do think there is a psychological issue with her that led to this. From the teen's POV, there might not have been coercion, but they may have been manipulated.

Of course. She's clearly damaged in some way.

 

[BobD]

She PIITheirB

 

[Ndaccountant]

Not under the philosophical assumptions of modern liberalism. This situation exposes the absurdity of using "consent" as the sole lodestar of sexual ethics.



For the same reason that Lisa Ann picks up college football players. It's a reversal of the usual power dynamic.



Of course. She's clearly damaged in some way.

True.

But, there is sexual power and explicit power. Lisa Ann doesn't have the latter nor does she seem to target individuals that she knows has some sort of personal issue(s). If it were just about power with sex, I doubt we would find connections between the victims that we seem to have here.

 

[Ndaccountant]

A woman cannot "rape" a teen/man. I just don't believe that can happen.

Woman charged with sexually assaulting husband’s friend | New York Post

 

[BobD]

A woman cannot "rape" a teen/man. I just don't believe that can happen.

NO means NO and we have a problem saying NO.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

But, there is sexual power and explicit power. Lisa Ann doesn't have the latter nor does she seem to target individuals that she knows has some sort of personal issue(s). If it were just about power with sex, I doubt we would find connections between the victims that we seem to have here.

The teacher-student dynamic should account for the disparity in how the two women's behavior is viewed:

A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized educational training, the purpose of which is to supply objective counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain.

Medieval and early modern tradition recognised only three professions: divinity, medicine, and law—the so-called "learned professions".

With the rise of technology and occupational specialization in the 19th century, other bodies began to claim professional status: pharmacy, veterinary medicine, psychology, nursing, teaching, librarianship, optometry and social work, each of which could claim, using these milestones, to have become professions by 1900.

As with all professionals, teachers owe their clients a duty of loyalty, which requires them to avoid conflicts of interest. Clients are frequently in a vulnerable state when they seek professional help, so there are strict rules regarding the propriety of sexual relations with one's clients. Teachers are no different.

In a typical case of older male teacher and young female student, a sexual relationship violates multiple duties the man owes to the girl: (1) professional to client (intellectual superiority), (2) man to woman (physical superiority), and (3) adult to child (actual superiority). In Altice's case, only (1) and (3) are present; so it's less clear-cut, but still enough to make most people uncomfortable. In Lisa Ann's case, only (3) is present, so no one really cares.

Of course, if you subscribe to the idea that men and women aren't fundamentally different, then you're required to dismiss this account as sexist nonsense. But such people have a very difficult time reconciling their views with a coherent condemnation of Altice's behavior.

 

[Ndaccountant]

The teacher-student dynamic should account for the disparity in how the two women's behavior is viewed:



As with all professionals, teachers owe their clients a duty of loyalty, which requires them to avoid conflicts of interest. Clients are frequently in a vulnerable state when they seek professional help, so there are strict rules regarding the propriety of sexual relations with one's clients. Teachers are no different.

In a typical case of older male teacher and young female student, a sexual relationship violates multiple duties the man owes to the girl: (1) professional to client (intellectual superiority), (2) man to woman (physical superiority), and (3) adult to child (actual superiority). In Altice's case, only (1) and (3) are present; so it's less clear-cut, but still enough to make most people uncomfortable. In Lisa Ann's case, only (3) is present, so no one really cares.

Of course, if you subscribe to the idea that men and women aren't fundamentally different, then you're required to dismiss this account as sexist nonsense. But such people have a very difficult time reconciling their views with a coherent condemnation of Altice's behavior.

Perhaps I misunderstood the point of the comment initially. I understood your comment to be viewed in the context of #3 above and nothing else. My point was that if it was about #3 and nothing else, then there should not be a connection among the teens (physical similarities aside). The idea that in the moment, those teens were "damaged" (and in some cases, more than just that moment in time) and she knew it.

On #2, I understand the idea of being physically superior in terms of strength. But let's not forget that it is entirely likely she was much more physically imposing sexually, which could have absolutely intimidated those teens, which can be more damaging when you combine it with #1. So, #3 and #2 can be blurred a bit and is tilted in a much more disturbing sense than what Lisa Ann may do one night with a CFB player.

 

[pkt77242]

Perhaps I misunderstood the point of the comment initially. I understood your comment to be viewed in the context of #3 above and nothing else. My point was that if it was about #3 and nothing else, then there should not be a connection among the teens (physical similarities aside). The idea that in the moment, those teens were "damaged" (and in some cases, more than just that moment in time) and she knew it.

On #2, I understand the idea of being physically superior in terms of strength. But let's not forget that it is entirely likely she was much more physically imposing sexually, which could have absolutely intimidated those teens, which can be more damaging when you combine it with #1. So, #3 and #2 can be blurred a bit and is tilted in a much more disturbing sense than what Lisa Ann may do one night with a CFB player.

Supposedly from the articles posted the first teen chased her not the other way around and he was very persistent about it.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Supposedly from the articles posted the first teen chased her not the other way around and he was very persistent about it.

That's right. And he reportedly wasn't happy with his parents moving and was doing drugs and failing other classes. So yes, he chased her. But once this occurred, it wasn't just about sex as she repeated the behavior with other teens.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

This has turned into a really rousing conversation . . .

 

[PLACforever]

This has turned into a really rousing conversation . . .

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Perhaps I misunderstood the point of the comment initially. I understood your comment to be viewed in the context of #3 above and nothing else. My point was that if it was about #3 and nothing else, then there should not be a connection among the teens (physical similarities aside). The idea that in the moment, those teens were "damaged" (and in some cases, more than just that moment in time) and she knew it.

On #2, I understand the idea of being physically superior in terms of strength. But let's not forget that it is entirely likely she was much more physically imposing sexually, which could have absolutely intimidated those teens, which can be more damaging when you combine it with #1. So, #3 and #2 can be blurred a bit and is tilted in a much more disturbing sense than what Lisa Ann may do one night with a CFB player.

I got side-tracked and forgot to finish my original point. Commercialization of the professions has undermined (1), feminism has undermined (2), and (3) has never had much force behind it (age is "just a number" after all). Which is probably why we see such a wide range of reactions Altice's trysts here.

 

[phgreek]

Pass go, and proceed to jail, get out of jail free card revoked. Guessing we'll see Ms. Altice in 2020 or so, if she is lucky. Her lawyer seems to be all in though...he's fightin.

Ex-teacher held without bail before trial on sex charges | KSL.com

 

[IrishinSyria]

"It's ridiculous and she doesn't deserve to be here," he said, later saying that he still has feelings for Altice. He glanced at her occasionally during his testimony, often answering prosecutors' questions with one-word answers

Preach, brother.

 

[dshans]

This is all disturbing.

Circumstances, certain comments, attitudes and all.

 

[Irish Fam]

the fact this thread is still alive and well is hilarious to me

 

[Irish#1]

the fact this thread is still alive and well is hilarious to me

That's because as we read this thread our minds drift back to our younger days and that one teacher (Mrs. Clark for me) we wished we could have hooked up with.

 

[connor_in]

This is all disturbing.

Circumstances, certain comments, attitudes and all.

Not to be a prude, but Iagree with dshans

 

[Irish YJ]

That's because as we read this thread our minds drift back to our younger days and that one teacher (Mrs. Clark for me) we wished we could have hooked up with.

Ms. Devoe, Ms. Johnson, lol

 

[Irish#1]

Ms. Devoe, Ms. Johnson, lol

I thought for sure it would be Sister Mary Kathleen!

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Not to be a prude, but Iagree with dshans

Where were you when I was a voice crying out in the wilderness?!

 

[dshans]

Where were you when I was a voice crying out in the wilderness?!

He had his Beats™ on? Cranked to 11? [Plug in your favorite loud music]

I will say this: It took a while for my blood to boil enough for me to feel it worthwhile to even pipe in.

There's a reason I tend to side-step certain threads. I'm sure that I'm not alone.

 

[Irish YJ]

I thought for sure it would be Sister Mary Kathleen!

Our youngest Sister was like 60 years old.

Ms Johnson was 4ish years older. The next year, I magically turned 18 and dated someone 6 years older than me. But the magic year made that OK.