SEC West is the Biggest Fraud of All Time

[ThePiombino]

Who in God's name said that?

It's a very popular sentiment actually. It's all about the grass being greener.

 

[dshans]

Its*

And in other news, SEC tears are the most delicious tears!

Crap!

I shouldn't post after midnight when I've had liquids that contain water.

I tank you fer yur crecction. I kneads & deservers it.

 

[GATTACA!]

#23 LSU LOSS Notre Dame... previous game Notre Dame got jail sexed by a relatively meh USC team.
#19 Auburn LOSS Wisconsin... previous game Wisconsin got destroyed 59-0 by Ohio State with their third string QB making his first start.
#9 Ole Miss EMBARASSED by TCU 42-0 in the first 35 minutes of the game...
#7 Mississippi State EMBARASSED by Georgia Tech down 3 TDs in 4th and needed a Hail Mary for it to even be that close...

Call me crazy, but I'm actually starting to sense that Ohio State could beat Bama tonight. Bama struggles to defend spread offenses, and Ohio State has the personnel on defense to slow down their ordinary offense. People thought Bama had a good offense but it just turns out that SEC defenses are total garbage.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Since the turn of the century, the national champions are as follows:

B1G - Ohio State (1)
Big 12 - Oklahoma (1), Texas (1)
PAC - USC (2*)
ACC - Miami (1), FSU (1)
SEC - Florida (2), LSU (1), Auburn (1), Alabama (3)

The SEC is clearly above all with seven total champs, represented by four teams. But like LAX pointed out, alot of those championships came during an obvious shift in favoritism as other deserving teams were left out.

Here's the biggest take away (and it's already been mentioned by Cack): The SEC has a recent history of championships.They schedule cupcakes. They get ranked high in the preseason. They get credit for winning against each other. They don't drop far when losing to each other. They literally schedule no one outside the conference on a regular basis. And then they pump their chests because literally every media member has crawled up their ass over the last ten years to create this money machine that is semi-pro football.

Something I would love to see (but don't have the time for at the moment) is the regular season and bowl records for each conference going back to 2000. I'd be willing to bet that the SEC, as a whole, has better records BUT I truly believe it's because they play no one outside their conference on a regular basis. Are they a great football conference top-to-bottom? Yes. But are they leaps and bounds better than other conferences? No. And it's time for everyone to start acting accordingly and stop with this biased madness. This bowl season has been FANTASTIC for college football.

 

[Guest]

Since the turn of the century, the national champions are as follows:

B1G - Ohio State (1)
Big 12 - Oklahoma (1), Texas (1)
PAC - USC (2*)
ACC - Miami (1), FSU (1)
SEC - Florida (2), LSU (1), Auburn (1), Alabama (3)

The SEC is clearly above all with seven total champs, represented by four teams. But like LAX pointed out, alot of those championships came during an obvious shift in favoritism as other deserving teams were left out.

Here's the biggest take away (and it's already been mentioned by Cack): The SEC has a recent history of championships.They schedule cupcakes. They get ranked high in the preseason. They get credit for winning against each other. They don't drop far when losing to each other. They literally schedule no one outside the conference on a regular basis. And then they pump their chests because literally every media member has crawled up their ass over the last ten years to create this money machine that is semi-pro football.

Something I would love to see (but don't have the time for at the moment) is the regular season and bowl records for each conference going back to 2000. I'd be willing to bet that the SEC, as a whole, has better records BUT I truly believe it's because they play no one outside their conference on a regular basis. Are they a great football conference top-to-bottom? Yes. But are they leaps and bounds better than other conferences? No. And it's time for everyone to start acting accordingly and stop with this biased madness. This bowl season has been FANTASTIC for college football.

This has been discussed here before. The bowl records for the SEC, beyond their championship contender each year, is VERY mediocre. That is why people have been questioning the 'SEC juggernaut' argument for several years now.

I argued with T3 on this board that outside of 1-2 teams every year, the SEC is overrated and the only time we get to see this, because of their scheduling, is during bowl season. He didn't have a good retort other than to point to the championships. For which I responded in much the same way: other teams were left out of the mythical national championship game to favor the SEC, which gave them an advantage in racking up more wins in the NC game.

I'll say what I have been saying all season long here (and outside this board for several years): Establish a legitimate playoff and settle it on the field. Also, establish a consistent OOC scheduling program across all of college football that requires all 'power' (contender) conferences to adhere to so we get more realistic poll results year in and year out.

 

[Domina Nostra]

What chaps my ass is how the entire division was ranked by the committee at some point and even had 4 teams in the top 15 at one point (???). All because they played, and lost, to each other.

Start with an arbitrary high preseason rank. Check.
Remain highly ranked after beating an arbitrarily high-ranked division rival. Check.
Don't fall in rankings because you lost to an arbitrarily highly-ranked division rival. Check.
Dominate lowly FCS teams. Check.

#SECLoL

This is the heart of the problem. It's not that it isn't a good division, it's that they argue its absolute superiority with one-sided and circular arguments. The college football world bought it then for the same reason they reject it tonight: all college football arguments boil down to "scoreboard, scoreboard, scoreboard..."

So now we will all agree that the SEC has always been overrated, every year, as a matter of fact (until they win the NC again).

 

[BleedBlueGold]

This has been discussed here before. The bowl records for the SEC, beyond their championship contender each year, is VERY mediocre. That is why people have been questioning the 'SEC juggernaut' argument for several years now.

I argued with T3 on this board that outside of 1-2 teams every year, the SEC is overrated and the only time we get to see this, because of their scheduling, is during bowl season. He didn't have a good retort other than to point to the championships. For which I responded in much the same way: other teams were left out of the mythical national championship game to favor the SEC, which gave them an advantage in racking up more wins in the NC game.

I'll say what I have been saying all season long here (and outside this board for several years): Establish a legitimate playoff and settle it on the field. Also, establish a consistent OOC scheduling program across all of college football that requires all 'power' (contender) conferences to adhere to so we get more realistic poll results year in and year out.

I completely agree.

Yup. Been saying this all year. Something has to change with scheduling to make the playing field more level and to allow for more accurate rankings. This whole SEC cannibalism has just been exposed. You can't get an accurate read on teams or conferences if they refuse to actually play quality opponents outside the conference. Baylor got punished for not playing anyone out of conference...why didn't the SEC?

 

[connor_in]

<a href="https://imgflip.com/i/fxp4n"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/fxp4n.jpg" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

 

[T Town Tommy]

This has been discussed here before. The bowl records for the SEC, beyond their championship contender each year, is VERY mediocre. That is why people have been questioning the 'SEC juggernaut' argument for several years now.

I argued with T3 on this board that outside of 1-2 teams every year, the SEC is overrated and the only time we get to see this, because of their scheduling, is during bowl season. He didn't have a good retort other than to point to the championships. For which I responded in much the same way: other teams were left out of the mythical national championship game to favor the SEC, which gave them an advantage in racking up more wins in the NC game.

I'll say what I have been saying all season long here (and outside this board for several years): Establish a legitimate playoff and settle it on the field. Also, establish a consistent OOC scheduling program across all of college football that requires all 'power' (contender) conferences to adhere to so we get more realistic poll results year in and year out.

You can check out the bowl record for the SEC the last 15 or so years for yourself. I posted out the W/L for every conference in our prior discussions. That can speak for itself.

As far as this year's bowl season. A major disappointment for sure for the SEC. But I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the SEC. One bad bowl season in the last 10-15 years doesn't mean the conference is in decline. They will be back again next next fall. I would expect most of the teams in the conference will be better than this year outside of the Miss schools who lose a lot of players.

 

[connor_in]

You can check out the bowl record for the SEC the last 15 or so years for yourself. I posted out the W/L for every conference in our prior discussions. That can speak for itself.

As far as this year's bowl season. A major disappointment for sure for the SEC. But I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the SEC. One bad bowl season in the last 10-15 years doesn't mean the conference is in decline. They will be back again next next fall. I would expect most of the teams in the conference will be better than this year outside of the Miss schools who lose a lot of players.

Their bag men layning low for a while to be safe?














































































no italics

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Crap!

I shouldn't post after midnight when I've had liquids that contain water.

I tank you fer yur crecction. I kneads & deservers it.

I am so disappointed in you.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Their bag men layning low for a while to be safe?














































































no italics

Currently getting outbid. LOL

 

[BleedBlueGold]

You can check out the bowl record for the SEC the last 15 or so years for yourself. I posted out the W/L for every conference in our prior discussions. That can speak for itself.

As far as this year's bowl season. A major disappointment for sure for the SEC. But I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the SEC. One bad bowl season in the last 10-15 years doesn't mean the conference is in decline. They will be back again next next fall. I would expect most of the teams in the conference will be better than this year outside of the Miss schools who lose a lot of players.

Care to repost those records, TTT? I've been under the impression that while the SEC has a winning bowl record, it's nothing that would prove they're the far superior conference.

This one bad bowl season doesn't prove the SEC is in decline, but it certainly proves that ESPN and other media jackasses are so far up the SEC's ass that they've lost sight of reality. That reality is that the SEC is not head and shoulders above all other conferences. The SEC benefits from inflated rankings and playing each other. And they reap the rewards of biased favoritism year in and year out. It needs to stop because it's bad for college football. What happened in the bowls so far this year has been great for the sport.

 

[greyhammer90]

Who in God's name said that?

Wizard and ACamp are two if I recall correctly.

 

[Guest]

You can check out the bowl record for the SEC the last 15 or so years for yourself. I posted out the W/L for every conference in our prior discussions. That can speak for itself.

As far as this year's bowl season. A major disappointment for sure for the SEC. But I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the SEC. One bad bowl season in the last 10-15 years doesn't mean the conference is in decline. They will be back again next next fall. I would expect most of the teams in the conference will be better than this year outside of the Miss schools who lose a lot of players.

I have checked out the bowl record for the last decade. The SEC typically has 1-2 very good teams every year with respect to OOC schedule results (including the bowls), but beyond that, they are very mediocre against the other conferences. The records have been, in fact, posted to this board in earlier threads this year. No need to rehash the same statistical facts that are still true. You lost that argument before and you are going to lose it again.

edit: And none of this changes the fact that until college football establishes a legitimate scheduling regime that forces compliance for all power conferences (ala the NFL), the polls are going to be suspect every year which makes the playoff suspect. CASE IN POINT: TCU. (And I would also argue, Auburn from two previous seasons in the last 10)

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I have checked out the bowl record for the last decade. The SEC typically has 1-2 very good teams every year with respect to OOC schedule results (including the bowls), but beyond that, they are very mediocre against the other conferences. The records have been, in fact, posted to this board in earlier threads this year. No need to rehash the same statistical facts that are still true.

I can't find that information. Care to repost please?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

F*ck the SEC!

 

[Guest]

I can't find that information. Care to repost please?

Let me go search threads (will take time since I am working today). It was late season discussing the bowl committee farce, if I remember correctly.

 

[eNDzone]

The SEC was outscored 294 to 238. They also did not beat a single team that was ranked higher than them in all the bowl games. I am eating this up.

Maybe if they even the playing field just a little more (85 Scholarship players a team) we will see some real rankings and competition.

I hate Ohio State but I have to thank them for making sure we will have 2 years in a row of non SEC Champions.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

Hopefully this bowl season forces the committee to view the SEC's out of conference schedules.
Remember when these teams weren't dropping in the poll because they were losing to each other?

 

[phork]

You can check out the bowl record for the SEC the last 15 or so years for yourself. I posted out the W/L for every conference in our prior discussions. That can speak for itself.

As far as this year's bowl season. A major disappointment for sure for the SEC. But I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the SEC. One bad bowl season in the last 10-15 years doesn't mean the conference is in decline. They will be back again next next fall. I would expect most of the teams in the conference will be better than this year outside of the Miss schools who lose a lot of players.

You've been hanging around us on these boards for too long bro. The unfortunate part is that tomorrow never comes.

 

[greyhammer90]

You've been hanging around us on these boards for too long bro. The unfortunate part is that tomorrow never comes.

Exactly what I was thinking. Now TTT sounds like an ND fan

 

[connor_in]

<a href="https://imgflip.com/i/fxrns"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/fxrns.jpg" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

 

[connor_in]

<a href="https://imgflip.com/i/fxrux"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/fxrux.jpg" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

 

[T Town Tommy]

I have checked out the bowl record for the last decade. The SEC typically has 1-2 very good teams every year with respect to OOC schedule results (including the bowls), but beyond that, they are very mediocre against the other conferences. The records have been, in fact, posted to this board in earlier threads this year. No need to rehash the same statistical facts that are still true. You lost that argument before and you are going to lose it again.

edit: And none of this changes the fact that until college football establishes a legitimate scheduling regime that forces compliance for all power conferences (ala the NFL), the polls are going to be suspect every year which makes the playoff suspect. CASE IN POINT: TCU. (And I would also argue, Auburn from two previous seasons in the last 10)

Since the suppossed start of SEC "dominance" from about 2004 on, what's their record against the Power Five? Pretty easy. It is miles away better than the other conferences. And, the SEC has played more games against Power Five opponents during that timeframe as well. The SEC has played 111 total regular-season games against Power 5 schools since 2004. Its 69-42 record is the best of the all Power 5 conferences, ahead of the Pac-12 (53-42), the Big 12 (42-42) and the Big Ten (36-45).

Over that time, the SEC has gone 42-23 against the ACC, 12-7 against the Pac-12, 9-8 against the Big 12 and 6-4 against the Big Ten.

Bowl games?

Since 2000, the SEC is 26 games above .500 in bowl games, which is a better win-loss differential than the ACC (minus-5), Big 12 (even), Big Ten (minus-23) and Pac-12 (plus-5).



As far as bias, preseason ranking vs where a team actually ended ranked. From 1989 to present the bottom teams were the following - the number represents total number of positions gained/lost in the polls during that timeframe:

9. Miami (-61)
8. Florida (-69)
7. Fla St (-76)
6. Notre Dame (-78)
5. Oklahoma (-87)
4. Michigan (-88)
3. Nebraska (-88)
2. Southern Cal (-95)
1. Texas (-112)

Conference overall- Power Five + Ind. (1993-present):

6. Pac 12 (+45)
5. Big 10 (-21)
4. SEC (-53)
3. Ind. (-61)
2. ACC (-108)
1. Big 12 (-185)

Based on this data, the SEC had one team that made the top nine teams as being overrated to start the season from 1989 to the present. Don't know if we can say there is an SEC bias when it appears the only team that consistently got "overrated" were the Gators.

On the conference side, it appears the Big 12 and ACC get a lot more bias when it comes to preseason rankings vs where they actually end up.


Alabama was +24 over the timeframe... meaning they finished a total of 24 positions higher over the timeframe than they were actually ranked to start the season.

SEC years in which the conference failed to deliver:

2009 (-24)
2008 (-18)
2004 (-19)
2002 (-20)
2000 (-36)
1995 (-15)


If anything, the data shows that recently the SEC is actually doing better than their preseason rankings are reflecting.

Don't know if I quoted all this correctly, but here is the bowl data for each conference along with a list of teams in relation to their preseason rankings vs their end of season rankings. To state that the SEC has been mediocre on bowl games outside one or two elite teams is simply not accurate. To state that the SEC is overrated each year is also not accurate. (Fla is the only team that fell in the top 10 in that category.)

 

[magogian]

Don't know if I quoted all this correctly, but here is the bowl data for each conference along with a list of teams in relation to their preseason rankings vs their end of season rankings. To state that the SEC has been mediocre on bowl games outside one or two elite teams is simply not accurate. To state that the SEC is overrated each year is also not accurate. (Fla is the only team that fell in the top 10 in that category.)

Here is one big flaw in these statistics. What if the final ranking is SEC biased?

We definitely saw that occur in the post-season rankings by the Committee this year.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Exactly what I was thinking. Now TTT sounds like an ND fan

LOL. Bama is gonna be back in the hunt next fall. And while there has not been much discussion on the subtle changes Saban is making in his recruiting efforts, he is getting 4-5 players the last two classes that are more built to play the spread game. We should see these players start to make some impact the next couple of years. All is well in T Town. Just gotta get better overall and keep grinding.

And all is well in SB. The Irish have something to build on and I expect them to be right there as well. Next year is already here. Exciting times for sure.

 

[Guest]

I can't find that information. Care to repost please?

Post #612 by Woneone discusses a three year stretch between 2007 and 2009.
http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/not...yoff-committee-rankings-2014-unranked-21.html

I remember was a larger history of SEC play against OOC opponents posted this year, but I cannot find the thread. It may be reflected in my search abilities, which I don't tend to do much here.

I personally did a 10-year review of OOC schedules (including bowl results) for the Top 8 or 10 teams in the SEC this year to confirm the results. I didn't post the results (was done on a lark), but what I found was that outside of a year or two of dominant performances, the SEC's record against OOC foes was pretty average. The trends were that a few top teams were dominant (Auburn, LSU, or Alabama typically) in a given year, but beyond that the SEC was over-hyped. Also, the last few years has been more brutal to the SEC showing that the other conferences are slowly catching up to them in recruiting and on-field play. The SEC 'mystique' was based largely in history, but not in the last few years especially.

Here is a study by Harvard math on conference and program bias, which is illuminating.
Conference Bias in College Football | The Harvard College Sports Analysis Collective

First, it shows the SEC gets the most benefit from bias in the rankings. Second, it shows that premier programs (like ND and Alabama) also get ranking bias. This reflects the disgruntlement that fans outside of ND have for our program in years where we play in a big bowl and get plastered, which has some statistical evidence against our favor. This is true of most of the premier college football programs and shows what I expect is the normal human bias towards traditionally good power programs.

The thread quoted above also discussed the Sagarin 'computer' ratings and why they are flawed: they depend on rankings which are entirely a human creation in a college football world with no scheduling parity. In other words, those computer rankings that supported the BCS system are heavily flawed toward the same bias shown in the Harvard study.

But, as always, do your own research to confirm.

 

[Rocket89]

SEC Bias: Why the Southeastern Conference Earns More Hype than Other Leagues - One Foot Down

The SEC's ~10-year dominance has been ridiculous. They've earned it on the field. As I said previously, let's see a couple more full seasons (and not just a handful of bowl games) of the rest of the country evening the playing field.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Here is one big flaw in these statistics. What if the final ranking is SEC biased?

We definitely saw that occur in the post-season rankings by the Committee this year.

The data reflects beginning year preseason rankings versus end of year rankings after bowl games. Where did you start ranked and where did you end ranked when it was all said and done? Not following your logic.