The Eye Test

[dang227]

The Eye Test

Takes BK 5 years to find a QB or get a QB ready to go.

Takes Urban a week to get his 3rd stringer ready to go against the 2nd best D in the country.

There is an eye test for ya. Golson and Zaire should skip Whitfield this summer and go hang with Urban

Kelly should go hang out with Urban. It's not rocket science BK. Running game can open up the passing game.


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[Wild Bill]

OSU played one power five team outside of the big ten and lost. Next.

 

[Bubbles]

Watching good football depresses me lately....

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Watching good football depresses me lately....

This was the feeling I had when I was watching 255lb DePriest run people down while thinking of our walk on and converted WR pushing 230lbs soaking wet.

 

[Bishop2b5]

OO bro trust me I know and agree with you. People are freaking looney tunes over there. I have said it before this is hands down the best ND board out there. So many great posters and level headed people. If people left II and came here it would be the worst. Seems like a lot of people are on the same page on this board

This. I know I'm an interloper and Tommy & I can sometimes be a pain in the ass. Heck, we sometimes find some of you to be pains in the ass, but on the whole, this board is WAY above almost every other on the net and 99% of the time you guys are reasonable, informed, and fair. It's why TTT & I like talking with you and have continued to camp out here... and in case I'm being too subtle, that's a heartfelt thanks for allowing us to.

 

[GBdomer]

This. I know I'm an interloper and Tommy & I can sometimes be a pain in the ass. Heck, we sometimes find some of you to be pains in the ass, but on the whole, this board is WAY above almost every other on the net and 99% of the time you guys are reasonable, informed, and fair. It's why TTT & I like talking with you and have continued to camp out here... and in case I'm being too subtle, that's a heartfelt thanks for allowing us to.

Do you post on II bro?

 

[Bishop2b5]

Do you post on II bro?

No. Never even heard of it until tonight.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I've been watching Alabama dismantle Mizzou and unfortunately comparing our starters to theirs. This was a terrible thing to do.

I just don't see a future at ND where we field this type of athleticism across the board.

I mean these guys just look bigger, faster and stronger at every position.

Just the eye test.

Since you mentioned the "eye test", I immediately thought of the 2013 BCSNC game vs Bama. All the hype and build up even had me thinking ND could at least compete but what a reality check on game night. In the time since then, I've heard two analysts that were on the field pre game compare ND vs Alabama using the eye test in pre game work outs. One was Tom Luginbill who you all know as the Scouts, Inc main guru on ESPN and a former QB at Maryland. If you're like me, you're not a particularly big fan of him but I can't say he holds a grudge vs ND. He was on the field pre game & noted that after looking at both squads that he knew right then it would be a blow out in Bama's favor. The other was Rick Neuheisel. Not the most successful HC, but love the game & is a likeable guy if you ever get a chance to listen to him on SiriusXM College Sports Radio. I can honestly say I don't think he's ever revealed a bias against ND...in fact he gets flak for being a PAC12 honk who is anti-SEC. He was in the tunnel when both the Irish & Tide were about to enter the stadium. After sizing each team up and listening to the smack talk, he said he knew then that it would be a mismatch b/c Bama was on another level.

I think it's safe to say that ND is never going to start accepting JUCOs (other than the anamoly this year w/ the kid from Fresno CC) or gray shirting. So, if ND is going to win it all; they're going to need a perfect storm of epic proportion. Talent, experience, depth, schedule falling the right way, health, plus turnover margin, elite front 7 on D & a little luck w/ the way the ball bounces.

It almost happened in 2012. Think of all the close calls w/ inferior teams like Purdue & Pitt. Imagine if KSU or Baylor had not spit the bit and we got matched up w/ one of them instead of Bama in the NC? I like our chances a helluva lot better than playing a minor league pro team like the Tide.

 

[BeauBenken]

Do you post on II bro?

A Bama fan on Irish Illustrated?

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Totally agree with you. Steve Hare a mod over on II doesn't think he is an elite coach because he couldn't cut it in the NFL. Also a guy started a thread today over there that Nick Saban isn't an elite coach, here is his post.

How about that spin on it. What makes him Elite? Someone in another thread pointed out he only was 34-24 at MSU. How great is that?

So he becomes great when he goes to a football factory that has no standards. That doesn't make you Elite at all. Grey shirting, over signing, not caring about graduation. When you get to play others that don't go "all in" down this dark road, or you are competing year in and year out against Miss St and Ole Miss??? C'mon.

He's a fine coach but Elite? How'd he do when Florida had Tebow? 1-1. The SEC is a bunch of a non-college, non-ethical, farm league for the NFL. There's nothing wrong with it, other than if anyone plays along and compares them to college teams abiding by college standards/rules.

So comparing Kelly to Saban or Meyer is apples to oranges.


Everybody over there is honestly going insane, even the mods are starting to lose it

I know you're relaying a post from II so this isn't directed at you personally. That dude whose post you shared is an idiot when it comes to CFB today. Ask him why Bill Curry, Ray Perkins, Mike DuBose, Dennis Franchione, Mike Price (well we know why he didn't ) & Mike Shula didn't enjoy similar dominance at Bama if it's that easy. In college football it's ALL about one thing....the head coach. Bama got the best of our generation & until he steps down they will be in the conversation.

When he was coaching Sparty he had an epiphany when he took his team down south to a bowl (I think against LSU). He saw the athleticism and raw talent that was so prevalent vs what he had at his disposal in East Lansing, MI. He knew if he wanted to get to the highest level he had to be able to recruit the best and that meant the South. He takes the LSU gig & the rest is history. Remember Nick is a midwestern guy from West Virginia. Hell most of the HC who have succeeded in the SEC are midwest/northern guys: Urban Meyer (Ohio), Les Miles (Ohio), Mark Richt (Nebraska).

Anyway, you don't have to like Saban but you have to respect what he's done & how he's done it. The scary thing is, he ain't done yet. I fully expect him to win it all again this year. Notre Dame is light years away from the Alabama program in every way imaginable.

 

[returnofthemack]

Since you mentioned the "eye test", I immediately thought of the 2013 BCSNC game vs Bama. All the hype and build up even had me thinking ND could at least compete but what a reality check on game night. In the time since then, I've heard two analysts that were on the field pre game compare ND vs Alabama using the eye test in pre game work outs. One was Tom Luginbill who you all know as the Scouts, Inc main guru on ESPN and a former QB at Maryland. If you're like me, you're not a particularly big fan of him but I can't say he holds a grudge vs ND. He was on the field pre game & noted that after looking at both squads that he knew right then it would be a blow out in Bama's favor. The other was Rick Neuheisel. Not the most successful HC, but love the game & is a likeable guy if you ever get a chance to listen to him on SiriusXM College Sports Radio. I can honestly say I don't think he's ever revealed a bias against ND...in fact he gets flak for being a PAC12 honk who is anti-SEC. He was in the tunnel when both the Irish & Tide were about to enter the stadium. After sizing each team up and listening to the smack talk, he said he knew then that it would be a mismatch b/c Bama was on another level.

I think it's safe to say that ND is never going to start accepting JUCOs (other than the anamoly this year w/ the kid from Fresno CC) or gray shirting. So, if ND is going to win it all; they're going to need a perfect storm of epic proportion. Talent, experience, depth, schedule falling the right way, health, plus turnover margin, elite front 7 on D & a little luck w/ the way the ball bounces.

It almost happened in 2012. Think of all the close calls w/ inferior teams like Purdue & Pitt. Imagine if KSU or Baylor had not spit the bit and we got matched up w/ one of them instead of Bama in the NC? I like our chances a helluva lot better than playing a minor league pro team like the Tide.

The thing is, Bama has freaks like the tank known as Derrick Henry. However, it's not like we have a team of midgets and walk-ons. If we had a D-line of Tuitt, Nix, Day, and Jones, I think VanGorder's defense would be incredible to watch. The problem is we're getting literally no pressure with our front 4, meaning we have to blitz constantly. I think we've recruited decently as far as interior linemen, but we need more ferocious athletes at DE. At LB, Jaylon is great, and Nyles can be a stud, but there's nobody that stands out in the last spot. If Redfield and Shumate can lock down the safety positions, they're both terrific athletes. Russell may be a bit overhyped but he's a good CB and I think Luke can be really good too. So if we can get a good set of DEs and another athletic OLB, we have all the athletic talent we need to have a top-tier defense starter-wise. Teams like Bama and LSU have those freaks we need, except they've got 3 strings of them - that's the major difference. Unfortunately, to build that kind of ridiculous depth, you have to consistently be a top-10 team.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

The thing is, Bama has freaks like the tank known as Derrick Henry. However, it's not like we have a team of midgets and walk-ons. If we had a D-line of Tuitt, Nix, Day, and Jones, I think VanGorder's defense would be incredible to watch. The problem is we're getting literally no pressure with our front 4, meaning we have to blitz constantly. I think we've recruited decently as far as interior linemen, but we need more ferocious athletes at DE. At LB, Jaylon is great, and Nyles can be a stud, but there's nobody that stands out in the last spot. If Redfield and Shumate can lock down the safety positions, they're both terrific athletes. Russell may be a bit overhyped but he's a good CB and I think Luke can be really good too. So if we can get a good set of DEs and another athletic OLB, we have all the athletic talent we need to have a top-tier defense starter-wise. Teams like Bama and LSU have those freaks we need, except they've got 3 strings of them - that's the major difference. Unfortunately, to build that kind of ridiculous depth, you have to consistently be a top-10 team.

And you have to be adept at "roster management". If ND continues to strictly adhere to the 85 scholarship limit, they will always fall short of having 85 scholarship athletes at their disposal due to injury, red shirt, suspension, etc. I'm no longer an opponent of oversigning.

 

[NCDomer]

Bama is just on another level when it comes to recruiting and coaching. Blake Barnett is really going to make this team explode as well because great QB play is something they have been lacking. Their defense and athleticism of the board is just stupid. Marlon Humphrey and Tony Brown would start for us and they are like their 3rd and 5th corner.

IMO Brian Kelly has to go out this offseason and make some changes that will help our recruiting efforts. I hate the way our coaches recruit besides Tony Alford. Kerry Cooks and Denbrock are decent recruiters but ND kind of sells itself. 3 of the last 4 recruiting classes have been very average for a team that wants to compete for Championships. It really showed up down the stretch that our recruiting on the defense side of the ball just won't cut it. I mean winning helps a lot with recruiting but we need to recruit more athletes on this football team.Drive me fucking nuts some of the kids we accept and kids we kind of just give up on unless Alford is on the case.

We need to stop recruiting guys who are going to be on Wall Street one day and start recruiting football players that will help bring what this program so desperately wants and deserves.

Bama has had pretty solid quarterbacks over the past several years. Sims is their worst one by far, and he's really not that bad. This is just a testament to the talent level at Bama.

2014 - Sims. Just won SEC title MVP. Top 300, 4-star out of h.s. Very athletic, so mechanics as a QB held him back from being ranked higher.

2011-2013 - McCarron. Drafted in 5th round. Heisman Runner-Up, Maxwell Award Winner, and Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award Winner in 2013. BCS title game MVP in 2012. SEC 2nd team in 2012 and 2013. A 4-star, top 10 at QB (depending on service), and overall top 100 (depending on service) coming out of h.s.

2009-2010 - McElroy. Drafted in 7th round. 2009 SEC title game MVP. In h.s., he was the Texas 5A Player of the Year and an EA Sports All-American. This for whatever reason meant he was only a high 3-star recruit. With that said, he wasn't a Saban recruit.


Everything else you said I completely agree with. Recruiting improved along the trenches, but it's been very average for a school that wants to be top 10 and in the title hunt. Not enough top end talent. We still need better talent in terms of speed and size. We tend to have just one or the other, which allows teams to scheme and exploit the deficiency be it speed or size. After all, how many top 10 teams would have a walk on start? Nothing against Schmidt because he played well, but he lacks athleticism and speed, which he compensates for with great vision (ie, sees the play develop early/anticipates plays very well).

 

[NCDomer]

The thing is, Bama has freaks like the tank known as Derrick Henry. However, it's not like we have a team of midgets and walk-ons. If we had a D-line of Tuitt, Nix, Day, and Jones, I think VanGorder's defense would be incredible to watch. The problem is we're getting literally no pressure with our front 4, meaning we have to blitz constantly. I think we've recruited decently as far as interior linemen, but we need more ferocious athletes at DE. At LB, Jaylon is great, and Nyles can be a stud, but there's nobody that stands out in the last spot. If Redfield and Shumate can lock down the safety positions, they're both terrific athletes. Russell may be a bit overhyped but he's a good CB and I think Luke can be really good too. So if we can get a good set of DEs and another athletic OLB, we have all the athletic talent we need to have a top-tier defense starter-wise. Teams like Bama and LSU have those freaks we need, except they've got 3 strings of them - that's the major difference. Unfortunately, to build that kind of ridiculous depth, you have to consistently be a top-10 team.

What? One was arguably in the top 3 for best on our defense. He's also a captain. He played very well and is far from the reason ND's defense was good initially and sucked later (well, his absence made the defense suck). BUT where else would a walk-on ever be such a key player? I don't see that at top 10 teams.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Since you mentioned the "eye test", I immediately thought of the 2013 BCSNC game vs Bama. All the hype and build up even had me thinking ND could at least compete but what a reality check on game night. In the time since then, I've heard two analysts that were on the field pre game compare ND vs Alabama using the eye test in pre game work outs. One was Tom Luginbill who you all know as the Scouts, Inc main guru on ESPN and a former QB at Maryland. If you're like me, you're not a particularly big fan of him but I can't say he holds a grudge vs ND. He was on the field pre game & noted that after looking at both squads that he knew right then it would be a blow out in Bama's favor. The other was Rick Neuheisel. Not the most successful HC, but love the game & is a likeable guy if you ever get a chance to listen to him on SiriusXM College Sports Radio. I can honestly say I don't think he's ever revealed a bias against ND...in fact he gets flak for being a PAC12 honk who is anti-SEC. He was in the tunnel when both the Irish & Tide were about to enter the stadium. After sizing each team up and listening to the smack talk, he said he knew then that it would be a mismatch b/c Bama was on another level.

I think it's safe to say that ND is never going to start accepting JUCOs (other than the anamoly this year w/ the kid from Fresno CC) or gray shirting. So, if ND is going to win it all; they're going to need a perfect storm of epic proportion. Talent, experience, depth, schedule falling the right way, health, plus turnover margin, elite front 7 on D & a little luck w/ the way the ball bounces.

It almost happened in 2012. Think of all the close calls w/ inferior teams like Purdue & Pitt. Imagine if KSU or Baylor had not spit the bit and we got matched up w/ one of them instead of Bama in the NC? I like our chances a helluva lot better than playing a minor league pro team like the Tide.

That was the main idea of starting this thread.. Forget about X's and O's..

I'm talking about guys 30lbs heavier and equally if not more athletically gifted... and rows of them.

 

[DillonHall]

What? One was arguably in the top 3 for best on our defense. He's also a captain. He played very well and is far from the reason ND's defense was good initially and sucked later (well, his absence made the defense suck). BUT where else would a walk-on ever be such a key player? I don't see that at top 10 teams.

Joe Schmidt isn't a captain.

 

[Booslum31]

That was the main idea of starting this thread.. Forget about X's and O's..

I'm talking about guys 30lbs heavier and equally if not more athletically gifted... and rows of them.

Until ND recruits (and gets) bigger, faster, nastier, and more athletic athletes our "lot in life" will not change. Getting these attributes in an athlete that is academically solid is an anomally. We'll land only two or three every year.

 

[NCDomer]

Joe Schmidt isn't a captain.

Oops. Despite being wrong, he certainly acted like the captain on defense.

 

[Crazy Balki]

This team at FULL strength can not hold up against the elite in the country. I would love to be wrong but lets stop being delusional.

No, he's right. The talent is there. Id put up our last two classes up against anyone. Especially 2014s, very underrated. The issue derives from the previous two classes, 2011 & 2012. Both looked great at first glance, but now look totally pitiful. I think only about half of tje members of both classes are still on the team and healthy. What's worse is that most of those that are were the highest ranking guys. The issue never really was getting recruits, but keeping them on board. These last two classes seem to be held together a lot better (knock on wood). Are we recruiting on the same level as Bama? No,but who is? ND has consistent top 10 classes, filled with talent.

I do however agree, that we need to make some coaching changes. Get rid of Denbrock and hire Jeff Quinn to run the offense, and actually CALL THE PLAYS. Seriously, whats the point of an OC if he doesnt call the plays? Then hire a special teams coach. Keep Booker on to coach TEs, I dont know why he is pulling double duties. When he returns fully healthy, hopefully, teach up McCarthey and have him be the safeties coach. Finally, GET A NEW STRENGTH COACH! We cant stay healthy to save our lives out there. That starts in the weight room. Along with not playing Navy anymore.

 

[NDRock]

I do however agree, that we need to make some coaching changes. Get rid of Denbrock and hire Jeff Quinn to run the offense, and actually CALL THE PLAYS. Seriously, whats the point of an OC if he doesnt call the plays? Then hire a special teams coach. Keep Booker on to coach TEs, I dont know why he is pulling double duties. When he returns fully healthy, hopefully, teach up McCarthey and have him be the safeties coach. Finally, GET A NEW STRENGTH COACH! We cant stay healthy to save our lives out there. That starts in the weight room. Along with not playing Navy anymore.

He pulls double duty because you're only allowed a certain number of assistant coaches. If we hire a ST only coach we would have to get rid of someone.

 

[NDohio]

That was the main idea of starting this thread.. Forget about X's and O's..

I'm talking about guys 30lbs heavier and equally if not more athletically gifted... and rows of them.

But how many teams other than Bama are getting these players?

I agree there is a gap between UND and Bama. I just don't think there is a big gap between UND and Ole Miss, Miss St, GA, etc.

 

[Crazy Balki]

He pulls double duty because you're only allowed a certain number of assistant coaches. If we hire a ST only coach we would have to get rid of someone.

Then Im afraid Booker must go too. Hes done a solid job with the TEs but a terrible job with ST. Find a good ST coach maybe with some offensive coaching exp to coach TEs, or get Quinn to coach TEs. Preferably a good recruiter as well.

 

[NDRock]

Then Im afraid Booker must go too. Hes done a solid job with the TEs but a terrible job with ST. Find a good ST coach maybe with some offensive coaching exp to coach TEs, or get Quinn to coach TEs. Preferably a good recruiter as well.

I'm not even sure he's done a good job with the TEs. Koyak is the only one who seems to play and he's rarely targeted in the pass game (may not be his fault.).

 

[Nick Setta]

I'm not even sure he's done a good job with the TEs. Koyak is the only one who seems to play and he's rarely targeted in the pass game (may not be his fault.).

Koyak sucks at blocking but he's open a lot. The middle's open a lot.

 

[GBdomer]

You would put our last two recruiting classes up against anyone in the country? I mean did you see us down the stretch? Defensive recruiting is average and it shows on the field.Depending how we finish down the stretch I would say last class and this class are incredibly average. What did you mean by everybody? Like USC, Bama, LSU those classes? You put ND in that category in recruiting? No way

 

[Crazy Balki]

You would put our last two recruiting classes up against anyone in the country? I mean did you see us down the stretch? Defensive recruiting is average and it shows on the field.Depending how we finish down the stretch I would say last class and this class are incredibly average. What did you mean by everybody? Like USC, Bama, LSU those classes? You put ND in that category in recruiting? No way

I think you're basing your logic on the entirety of the team and not the individual classes. A lot of the issues are due to the previous classes falling apart. Both classes are great and filled with talented athletes. They just need time to develop with a legit conditioning coach.

 

[GBdomer]

I think you're basing your logic on the entirety of the team and not the individual classes. A lot of the issues are due to the previous classes falling apart. Both classes are great and filled with talented athletes. They just need time to develop with a legit conditioning coach.

You know I just can't reason with you on this one at all. I know you believe ND over everything and every recruit is crazy for not picking ND. I agree there are a couple nice players and athletically it's getting better but it's still an issue with this team.

 

[Crazy Balki]

You know I just can't reason with you on this one at all. I know you believe ND over everything and every recruit is crazy for not picking ND. I agree there are a couple nice players and athletically it's getting better but it's still an issue with this team.

Its not a matter of ND above all or anything like that. Its a matter of watching film. I've seen these athletes and they look great. And how is recruiting athletes an issue when we've had back to back top 10 classes. You act as though we're constantly getting 2 star guys.

 

[GBdomer]

Its not a matter of ND above all or anything like that. Its a matter of watching film. I've seen these athletes and they look great. And how is recruiting athletes an issue when we've had back to back top 10 classes. You act as though we're constantly getting 2 star guys.

Which athletes? You don't think recruiting is an issue? How, I am curious on who you are really high on and who you aren't. I'll give you my breakdown after you give me your breakdown

 

[DillonHall]

Oops. Despite being wrong, he certainly acted like the captain on defense.

He's the only leader we had on defense this year.