The Jameis Winston Investigation Thread

[Irish Insanity]

So, anyone think there's a shot he returns next year? Wasn't that what his dad was claiming.

 

[woolybug25]

Tommy and Icky - would you guys mind linking a source to the stats you are posting? They are miles apart and I'm interested in how he has responded to pressure this year.

It's surprising to me that he would be good in this dept this season, as he didn't look good under pressure in the two FSU games I watched (Clem, Syr). He lost his two main WR's to the NFL and some lineman. I know for a fact his stats for passes over 15 yards have plummeted.

 

[IrishInFl]

So, anyone think there's a shot he returns next year? Wasn't that what his dad was claiming.

If he does, he's dumber than I thought, which was already pretty dumb. Not happening, and everyone in Tallahassee thinks he's gone as well.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm not sure what BVG will do. Maybe bring a blitz early just to get JW thinking it's coming all the time, then show it and drop back? Maybe no blitzes until he really needs to? Maybe, prove to me you can handle my blitzes, until then here they come? BVG is lot smarter than any of us when it comes to defenses. I trust he'll come up with something.

On a different note, given the odds and what the media is saying I have a feeling BK may be using the "no one gives us a chance" story line with the team this week. Take the motivation that gets used against ND every week and use it to our advantage this week. "What though the odds be great are small..........."

I like our chances.

 

[BillyIrish]

Wooly here is an article I read yesterday outline the BVG zone blitz vs Winston.
Notre Dame-Florida State: Irish can end FSU's shot at title repeat | FOX Sports

 

[koonja]

Winston maybe great against the blitz, but if we take that out, we take out what's been BVG's biggest strength. I think we need to blitz every 3rd and long with at least one guy.

 

[woolybug25]

Wooly here is an article I read yesterday outline the BVG zone blitz vs Winston.
Notre Dame-Florida State: Irish can end FSU's shot at title repeat | FOX Sports

Thanks Billy. That's a fantastic article. Reps.

Best quote I took from it.

Creating high-pressure situations for the Seminoles’ offense will be the plan of attack for Notre Dame’s defense. While some defensive coordinators play it safe, taking minimal and calculated risks, Notre Dame DC Brian VanGorder holds nothing back. One of my favorite sayings I heard during my time playing for him in the NFL was, “You can live 80 years like a kitten, or you can live 50 like a lion.”

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Question: After the OSU fiasco, was there not a NFL rule implemented that stated suspended players may not enter the draft? Isn't that why Pryor went undrafted and had to get into the League via the supplemental draft? If so, then it's highly possible that FSU puts off this hearing/verdict until after the season (so they get theirs, of course) and then suspends/expells him. Doing this may make him ineligible for the draft (if my memory serves me correctly) and he'll be forced to make a choice. Perhaps I'm way off here. I didn't take the time to research it. Figured someone would know the ins and outs of this.

Edit: I remember Pryor had to sit the season at OSU so he opted to leave and sit 5 games in the NFL. I just can't recall the specifics as to why he wasn't drafted in the official NFL Draft. Is it because he withdrew from OSU for the year prior to the draft?

The supplemental draft is just a later deadline. He didn't declare in time for the regular draft. I really don't recall specifics on the NFL suspension but I don't think that would really hurt Winston (his behavior will) because rookie QBs generally have to sit for a while anyway.

 

[china423]

@DanWetzel: Defending Jameis Winston has descended into attacking the woman. It's wrong in every way: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ugly-t...iscourage-future-victims-034943507-ncaaf.html

 

[ThePiombino]

For what it's worth, I voted "No"- I don't want Winston to play, but it has nothing to do with having a better chance of winning. It has to do with him being a scumbag piece of shit who doesn't deserve to ever see the limelight again. I realize that it's in ND's best interest for him to play as it would be a major litmus test for how good this defense really is, but I'm sorry- he can suck a bag of dicks...from the sideline, or better yet- outside of the stadium all together.

 

[woolybug25]

@DanWetzel: Defending Jameis Winston has descended into attacking the woman. It's wrong in every way: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ugly-t...iscourage-future-victims-034943507-ncaaf.html

Everyone should read this article. Including any FSU fan.

 

[wizards8507]

Everyone should read this article. Including any FSU fan.

I've tried not to comment on the rape / sexual assault issue because I'm not well enough informed to speak to the facts. That said, is it at all possible he didn't do it? We've seen first hand with the Seeberg and Sullivan cases that when the media "knows" something to be true, the facts tend to get lost in the rush to get clicks.

 

[irish#underground]

May want to check those numbers. He is completing around 67% of his passes when blitzed in 2014. The YPC average is down somewhat from his 2013 numbers against the blitz indicating that he is more willing to take the shorter pass than he was last year. Probably due to his OL not being as good as last year and the fact that he is missing a few targets from last year as well.

Bottom line, if the Irish blitz JW, they will lose the game. Greyhammer's analysis a little further back in the thread is probably a better option for BVG's defense.

Proly not as much but rest assured the blitz is coming...

 

[woolybug25]

I've tried not to comment on the rape / sexual assault issue because I'm not well enough informed to speak to the facts. That said, is it at all possible he didn't do it? We've seen first hand with the Seeberg and Sullivan cases that when the media "knows" something to be true, the facts tend to get lost in the rush to get clicks.

Per that article:

Various statistics ranging from the FBI to the Department of Justice say just 2 to 8 percent of sexual assault allegations are false. To falsely accuse someone of rape is a crime, as it should be. It's an evil, evil thing to do. That's probably why it's relatively rare.

Now. Taking that stat into account, and the fact that actual rape is the accusation, not sexual assault like the Seeberg case (significant difference). Do you believe that a girl that did the following is lying?

• She needed to immediately tell a friend she was assaulted.

• She needed to have that friend call the police and subject herself to questioning.

• She needed the first police department to call a second police department for another interview and evidence collection.

• She needed all of this to occur in her dorm, where the presence of police, and thus the painful reason for their presence, would surely be known by all of the other students.

• She needed to admit she was out drinking despite being underage. She needed to admit she left a bar alone with three men when she didn't even know their names. She needed to admit getting in a cab and going to their apartment. All of this is behavior that would be, for many, embarrassing or even shameful to discuss.

• She needed to willingly go to the hospital and endure a rape kit, which, by all accounts, is one of the most dehumanizing and humiliating experiences a person can go through.

• She needed to have another talk with police at the hospital and discuss her drinking and actions that night with medical professionals. She needed to willingly subject herself to a toxicology test.

• She needed to wake her parents in the middle of the night and talk to them about being assaulted, while acknowledging behavior (drinking, leaving the bar with strange men, etc.) that they presumably would disapprove. How many women want to discuss sex, in any way, shape or form, with their father?

• She needed to tell more friends of this behavior the next day, even though the least humiliating thing she could have ever done was never tell anyone where she was. Other than Winston and his two FSU teammates he lived with, no one knew where she went that night. Had she been embarrassed by consensual actions, she could've just remained silent and hoped to never run into guys she didn't even know again.

• She needed to go to the TPD the next afternoon for an additional interview, which was recorded. She needed to file a false police report knowing that, if it were proven she lied, she would be prosecuted. She needed to repeatedly lie to the police, another crime.

Now... let's say that someone could still go through all of that info and tell themselves "yeah, I don't see that as compelling enough, she could still be lying". Then ask yourself this... do you think that isn't enough information to at least have a trial to find out?

Honestly... I see no ethically or morally responsible option that includes not even prosecuting him for it. I can't imagine what future rape victims in Tallahassee will think. They will be terrified to report after this situation.

 

[greyhammer90]

Just to be clear I'm not saying we should never blitz. But I think that if we have to blitz consistently we're in trouble and Winston will pick us apart.

 

[wizards8507]

Per that article:

Now. Taking that stat into account, and the fact that actual rape is the accusation, not sexual assault like the Seeberg case (significant difference). Do you believe that a girl that did the following is lying?

Now... let's say that someone could still go through all of that info and tell themselves "yeah, I don't see that as compelling enough, she could still be lying". Then ask yourself this... do you think that isn't enough information to at least have a trial to find out?

Honestly... I see no ethically or morally responsible option that includes not even prosecuting him for it. I can't imagine what future rape victims in Tallahassee will think. They will be terrified to report after this situation.

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that the handling of this case has been appropriate. I'm just trying to ruminate on the formation of a personal opinion. OJ Simpson wasn't convicted of murder but we all know he's a murderer. Michael Jackson wasn't convicted of molestation but we all know he was a big weirdo creep. Jameis Winston might never be convicted of rape but...

 

[Irish74]

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that the handling of this case has been appropriate. I'm just trying to ruminate on the formation of a personal opinion. OJ Simpson wasn't convicted of murder but we all know he's a murderer. Michael Jackson wasn't convicted of molestation but we all know he was a big weirdo creep. Jameis Winston might never be convicted of rape but...

Exactly, just like Prince SHembo wasn't convicted but...

 

[Kingbish01]

I've fallen behind with a busy week at work. Any chance he is suspended. What is the % he plays?

 

[woolybug25]

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that the handling of this case has been appropriate. I'm just trying to ruminate on the formation of a personal opinion. OJ Simpson wasn't convicted of murder but we all know he's a murderer. Michael Jackson wasn't convicted of molestation but we all know he was a big weirdo creep. Jameis Winston might never be convicted of rape but...

Oh, that wasn't my intent. Your comment above is accurate. I was just adding color to the situation.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

The supplemental draft is just a later deadline. He didn't declare in time for the regular draft. I really don't recall specifics on the NFL suspension but I don't think that would really hurt Winston (his behavior will) because rookie QBs generally have to sit for a while anyway.

Thanks. I wasn't sure.

 

[connor_in]

Per that article:



Now. Taking that stat into account, and the fact that actual rape is the accusation, not sexual assault like the Seeberg case (significant difference). Do you believe that a girl that did the following is lying?



Now... let's say that someone could still go through all of that info and tell themselves "yeah, I don't see that as compelling enough, she could still be lying". Then ask yourself this... do you think that isn't enough information to at least have a trial to find out?

Honestly... I see no ethically or morally responsible option that includes not even prosecuting him for it. I can't imagine what future rape victims in Tallahassee will think. They will be terrified to report after this situation.

To add to this, my understanding is that regardless of the police filing charges and trying the accused, Title IX requires a hearing based on the charges made by the alleged victim just on the basis that she made the claim. Is my understanding correct?

 

[woolybug25]

To add to this, my understanding is that regardless of the police filing charges and trying the accused, Title IX requires a hearing based on the charges made by the alleged victim just on the basis that she made the claim. Is my understanding correct?

You are correct. One of the legal nerds on here should explain how they got away with not doing this immediately to begin with. The shear amount of shady activity coming from the administrators of FSU and the Tallahassee Police Department is appalling.

 

[Huntr]

I've fallen behind with a busy week at work. Any chance he is suspended. What is the % he plays?

Barring the FSU admins swooping in at the 11th hr, he's playing.

Which means he's playing

 

[koonja]

Keep in mind (and SIAP), reading the NY Times article, she had no idea who Winston was. She found out his name by being in class with him, and she waited for the professor to say his name out loud and she wrote it down.

Hardly normal behavior for someone who's just looking to make some money/get attention.

 

[Huntr]

The shear amount of shady activity coming from the administrators of FSU ... is appalling.

Thus the Title IX investigation.


Tally popo should be scrutinized by DoJ, but I'm not holding my breath.

Can't remember if FDLE looked into it or not.

 

[gkIrish]

Keep in mind (and SIAP), reading the NY Times article, she had no idea who Winston was. She found out his name by being in class with him, and she waited for the professor to say his name out loud and she wrote it down.

Hardly normal behavior for someone who's just looking to make some money/get attention.

First hole in her story: Why was Jameis even in class?

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

You are correct. One of the legal nerds on here should explain how they got away with not doing this immediately to begin with. The shear amount of shady activity coming from the administrators of FSU and the Tallahassee Police Department is appalling.

My recollection is FSU is facing an inquiry over their failure to follow the Title IX protocols. So they haven't... as of yet.

EDIT: Here is a USA Today story which states the Department of Education is investigating FSU.

 

[wizards8507]

My recollection is FSU is facing an inquiry over their failure to follow the Title IX protocols. So they haven't... as of yet.

The Title IX angle smells like a big pile of crap from bureaucrats who want to look like they're doing something. Pursuing this from a Title IX perspective seems to imply that if not for Title IX, FSU and the Tallahassee PD did nothing wrong. If they did something criminal, come at them with a criminal investigation, not a media-driven inquiry based on education regulations.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

The Title IX angle smells like a big pile of crap from bureaucrats who want to look like they're doing something. Pursuing this from a Title IX perspective seems to imply that if not for Title IX, FSU and the Tallahassee PD did nothing wrong. If they did something criminal, come at them with a criminal investigation, not a media-driven inquiry based on education regulations.

Different departments with different jurisdictions. I don't think the FBI generally makes public announcements about who is under investigation.

 

[connor_in]

@DanWetzel: Defending Jameis Winston has descended into attacking the woman. It's wrong in every way: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ugly-t...iscourage-future-victims-034943507-ncaaf.html

Really great article