Jesse Ventura wins "America Sniper" $1.8M defamation suit

[connor_in]

Jesse Ventura Awarded $1.8 Million In Lawsuit Against Navy SEAL - Business Insider

Jesse Ventura sued "America Sniper" Chris Kyle for defamation about the story of a bar fight Kyle had put into his book "American Sniper." Kyle was killed last year in an incident involving a person he was mentoring. Even though he was deceased, Ventura pressed on with his case against Kyle's estate (aka his widow). The jury awarded Ventura $500,000 for defamation and $1.3 million for unjust enrichment. Ventura had been seeking $5 million to $15 million.

The majority of twitter has been highly critical of Ventura: (some language NSFW)

‘Lone Survivor’ Marcus Luttrell’s Facebook thread mocks Ventura [pics] | Twitchy

Twitter reacts to Jesse Ventura winning $1.8 million defamation verdict against Chris Kyle estate | OregonLive.com

‘Has he no shame?’ Anderson Cooper rips Jesse Ventura for suit against Chris Kyle’s widow | Twitchy

 

[#1rish]

What a gutless piece of shit.

 

[connor_in]

FYI...per the link above the Blue Falcon pic, that is a reference to:

"(“Blue Falcon” is military slang for “buddy f*ck”—a soldier screwing over one of his comrades.)"

 

[IrishLax]

Haven't read the links yet, but did Kyle actually libel Ventura? What exactly did he write that he took exception to?

 

[jspags10pg]

Haven't read the links yet, but did Kyle actually libel Ventura? What exactly did he write that he took exception to?

I read the book awhile back so my recollection probably isnt the greatest but I think Kyle and Ventura were at some graduation ceremony for the SEALs and Kyle and his buddies overheard Ventura badmouthing America and he said something about the SEALs deserving to lose a few guys in the war or something like that and Kyle basically dropped Ventura after that statement.

 

[IrishLax]

I read the book awhile back so my recollection probably isnt the greatest but I think Kyle and Ventura were at some graduation ceremony for the SEALs and Kyle and his buddies overheard Ventura badmouthing America and he said something about the SEALs deserving to lose a few guys in the war or something like that and Kyle basically dropped Ventura after that statement.

I mean... if he made that up and printed it... he deserves to lose a lawsuit.

If he didn't make it up, then fuck Ventura. But if someone printed that I was bad mouthing America and wishing death on Navy SEALs and that never happened I would go after them with all means at my disposal.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Yeah if that's not true, it's clearly libelous.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

The liberal government oppressed me and Marine Todd and Chris Kyle.

 

[Emcee77]

I mean... if he made that up and printed it... he deserves to lose a lawsuit.

If he didn't make it up, then fuck Ventura. But if someone printed that I was bad mouthing America and wishing death on Navy SEALs and that never happened I would go after them with all means at my disposal.

Totally agreed. I don't doubt that the story damaged Ventura's reputation and cost him professional opportunities as a TV personality or whatever he is now. If the story is false, I don't blame him for wanting to pursue the lawsuit to judgment.

I don't know either party's financial situation, but I do hope Ventura doesn't press too hard to collect the judgment, if paying it is a hardship for Mrs. Kyle. I get why he wanted a judicial determination of libel--he wanted to clear his name in the public eye--but it's unseemly to take money from a widow and her children.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I read that his estate has made over 6 million dollars on the book. His wife and children will eat.

 

[Emcee77]

I read that his estate has made over 6 million dollars on the book. His wife and children will eat.

Ahh thanks. That's what I was wondering.

 

[wizards8507]

I mean... if he made that up and printed it... he deserves to lose a lawsuit.

Legally, yeah you're right. But there's an overlap of "legally correct" and "still a dick move."

But if someone printed that I was bad mouthing America and wishing death on Navy SEALs and that never happened I would go after them with all means at my disposal.

For what purpose? There are two reason to sue someone:

1) Compensatory damages - "Makes you whole" if another causes you injury. Ventura's reputation might have been harmed by what was written, but $5M dollars worth? Give me a break.

2) Punitive damages - Punishes the person for what they did. In this case, the perpetrator of the wrongdoing is dead and the only person you're harming is his widow, in ways other than financial.

 

[jspags10pg]

I mean... if he made that up and printed it... he deserves to lose a lawsuit.

If he didn't make it up, then fuck Ventura. But if someone printed that I was bad mouthing America and wishing death on Navy SEALs and that never happened I would go after them with all means at my disposal.

Agree with your thoughts. I just read that there was testimony from others at the ceremony that basically went along with what Kyle wrote but their stories differed slightly.

The jury was told that their job was to determine whether or not what was wrote by Kyle was damaging to Ventura and his reputation and if it has in any way impacted his TV personality...not to determine whether or not what was printed by Kyle was true or not.

Seems kind of messed up to me. If it's true then I have no problem with Kyle putting it out there for everyone to hear and actually applaud him for doing so. If it's false and completely made up then I don't really have a problem with Ventura's lawsuit because I'm sure it has damaged his TV personality and reputation.

Just seems like a backwards way of going about that lawsuit to me.

 

[phgreek]

Agree with your thoughts. I just read that there was testimony from others at the ceremony that basically went along with what Kyle wrote but their stories differed slightly.

The jury was told that their job was to determine whether or not what was wrote by Kyle was damaging to Ventura and his reputation and if it has in any way impacted his TV personality...not to determine whether or not what was printed by Kyle was true or not.

Seems kind of messed up to me. If it's true then I have no problem with Kyle putting it out there for everyone to hear and actually applaud him for doing so. If it's false and completely made up then I don't really have a problem with Ventura's lawsuit because I'm sure it has damaged his TV personality and reputation.

Just seems like a backwards way of going about that lawsuit to me.

thats kinda the impression I got...that there was testimony all over the place that could refute or support Kyle's account...so I'm confused how a jury could find in Ventura's favor.

If there is some truth to it, and Kyle was writing a sort of autobiography...for at least a period of his life...how can you say it was malicious? Did the event happen in the time period he was covering...was it clearly shown to be false?

Somehow I get the feeling this judge had his/her eye on more far reaching implications...like political tell-alls or something...

 

[GoldenDomer]

Ventura is a piece of shit. Suing a dead war hero.

 

[enrico514]

Why would a war hero not be held accountable like every other citizen?

 

[GoldenDomer]

Why would a war hero not be held accountable like every other citizen?

There's just some shit you don't do. If he needed that money he could create another shitty TV show

 

[connor_in]

some details:

The section recounts an October 2006 confrontation that Chris Kyle said he had at a bar in Coronado, California, with a man called "Scruff Face." In promotional interviews, Kyle identified the man as Ventura, who was in Coronado for a SEAL reunion and graduation ceremony. Kyle was at the bar for a wake for a fallen SEAL.

Olsen suggested in his closing argument that the jury award Ventura $5 million to $15 million to compensate him for damage to his reputation. He said Kyle's claims that Ventura said he hated America, thought the U.S. military was killing innocent civilians in Iraq and that the SEALs "deserve to lose a few" had made him a pariah in the community that mattered most to him — the brotherhood of current and former SEALs.

Borger argued that 11 witnesses presented by the defense told a "compelling and consistent story" that backed Kyle's account.

Ventura testified that his income as a television personality fell sharply as job offers dried up in the wake of "American Sniper." Borger said Ventura's career as an entertainer was in decline well before that.

Though Ventura honed a tough-guy reputation as a pro wrestler and action movie actor, he maintained the legal battle was about clearing his name among his beloved fellow Navy SEALs, not about losing a supposed fight.

Kyle — reputed to be the deadliest sniper in U.S. military history — said in his memoir that he punched Ventura in California in 2006 after Ventura said the SEALs "deserved to lose a few" in Iraq. Ventura disputed that the confrontation, including the punch, ever happened.

Legal experts have said Ventura has to clear a high legal bar to win, since as a public figure he must prove “actual malice.” According to the jury instructions, Ventura had to prove that Kyle either knew or believed what he wrote was untrue, or that he harbored such serious doubts that he acted with reckless disregard for the truth.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The jury was told that their job was to determine whether or not what was wrote by Kyle was damaging to Ventura and his reputation and if it has in any way impacted his TV personality...not to determine whether or not what was printed by Kyle was true or not.

Then there's no way that Ventura's judgment is going to hold up on appeal. Truth is an absolute defense to all libel claims.

Though I seriously doubt that's accurate. That would be major judicial malpractice.

 

[peoriairish]

Why would a war hero not be held accountable like every other citizen?

They should be. But I don't know what kind of bar fights you get into, but none of mine end up in a million dollar lawsuit.

Fuck Ventura. This pisses me off so much. Just dragging a great SEAL and true war hero who saved countless lives through the mud. If it happened, it happened. Don't go crying to mommy if you got poked in the nose by a real man.

Let me repeat myself. Fuck. Ventura.

 

[#1rish]

Ventura's career was in the dumps even before the book came out. And honestly, this whole ridiculousness will paint him even more negatively than he's claimed.


Whatever. All this will give Kyle's book more publicity.

 

[peoriairish]

Luttrell posted these on his Facebook page last night. I hope to see him speak at the Cardinal's game on Saturday.

 

[jspags10pg]

Then there's no way that Ventura's judgment is going to hold up on appeal. Truth is an absolute defense to all libel claims.

Though I seriously doubt that's accurate. That would be major judicial malpractice.

Yea, it just seems too backwards to me to make any sense at all. If true, that would be a HUGE flaw in the judicial system or just a big mistake by the judge in this case. I'll try to find the article I read and post a link once I get home from work...which will be in about 10 hours haha.

 

[Emcee77]

The jury was told that their job was to determine whether or not what was wrote by Kyle was damaging to Ventura and his reputation and if it has in any way impacted his TV personality...not to determine whether or not what was printed by Kyle was true or not.

Then there's no way that Ventura's judgment is going to hold up on appeal. Truth is an absolute defense to all libel claims.

Though I seriously doubt that's accurate. That would be major judicial malpractice.

Right, I haven't read too much about this particular case, but I can back Whiskey up and say that the bolded is simply not the law. And I'll add that there had to be a finding not only that the story Kyle told was damaging to Ventura AND that it was false BUT ALSO that it was told with "actual malice," or a reckless disregard for the truth. For example, if Kyle was told after the fight by a close and trusted friend that the man he'd fought was Jesse Ventura, and he had no reason to believe otherwise, he is NOT liable for libel, even if the man, in fact, was not Ventura. Kyle had to KNOW at the time he wrote the book that the man was NOT Jesse Ventura, or be pretty damned close to sure of it. Otherwise, this verdict violates Chris Kyle's First Amendment rights.

Like Whiskey, I have to doubt that the court got the jury instructions so far wrong.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

According to the Bussiness Insider linked in the first post:

The jury was instructed that Ventura had to prove that Kyle either knew or believed what he wrote was untrue, or that he harbored serious doubts about its truth.

More importantly, how can 11 people back up Kyle's story and he still lose???

 

[Emcee77]

According to the Bussiness Insider linked in the first post:

Excellent, thanks for finding that. I had a feeling the court didn't mess up the jury instructions. I mean, this isn't an obscure issue. This is basic, bar-exam law here.

More importantly, how can 11 people back up Kyle's story and he still lose???

As to this, apparently only one of Kyle's witnesses could really back him up on the whole story. The rest were there but couldn't really corroborate all the story's key elements:

Both sides in Minneapolis called witnesses. One of Kyle’s former SEAL teammates said that he’d heard Ventura “bashing” President Bush and making the comment about how the SEALs deserved to “lose some guys,” before being decked by Kyle. “It’s something that sticks with you,” the SEAL said. But no one else from Kyle’s side seemed to have witnessed the entire event: some heard Ventura badmouthing U.S. policies; some saw Ventura go down; some saw a melee that followed. (Kyle had said that he didn’t stick around, and took off running, after landing the punch.) A witness for Ventura, himself a former SEAL who had accompanied the former governor to the pub that night, said he neither saw Ventura get hit nor heard him speak ill of SEALs. The witness’s wife testified that she heard Ventura say, “I don’t think this war is worth one SEAL dying for,” but she felt that the comment “expressed love,” not rancor.

The Ventura Verdict - The New Yorker

So it was really Kyle's former Navy SEAL buddy's word against Ventura's Navy SEAL buddy's word, apparently?

 

[Voltaire]

I wouldn't be surprised if he said it. Jesse Ventura has gone way, way off the deep end over the past few years and apparently is roaming around Mexico to stay off the grid.

Jesse Ventura hiding from drones - Tal Kopan - POLITICO.com

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Excellent, thanks for finding that. I had a feeling the court didn't mess up the jury instructions. I mean, this isn't an obscure issue. This is basic, bar-exam law here.

As to this, apparently only one of Kyle's witnesses could really back him up on the whole story. The rest were there but couldn't really corroborate all the story's key elements:

The Ventura Verdict - The New Yorker

So it was really Kyle's former Navy SEAL buddy's word against Ventura's Navy SEAL buddy's word, apparently?

That makes much more sense. There was conflicting testimony on a critical question of fact. The jury must have found Ventura's witnesses much more credible than the Kyle Estate's, because the latter is so much more sympathetic than the former.

 

[connor_in]

One other point:

Jurors declined to comment to reporters as they left the courthouse. They deliberated for five days before telling the judge Monday they didn't believe they could reach a unanimous verdict, but were told to keep trying. Tuesday's resolution came only after attorneys for both sides agreed to allow a verdict if eight of 10 jurors agreed.
John Borger, an attorney for Kyle's estate, said the family would consider an appeal. He faced questions about why he agreed to a non-unanimous verdict when the jury appeared close to being hung.

"That was a strategic call, which seemed appropriate at the time," Borger said.

Legal experts had said Ventura had to clear a high legal bar to win, because as a public figure he had to prove actual malice. The jury was instructed that Ventura had to prove that Kyle either knew or believed what he wrote was untrue, or that he harbored serious doubts about its truth.

 

[jspags10pg]

According to the Bussiness Insider linked in the first post:



More importantly, how can 11 people back up Kyle's story and he still lose???

Yea, your post makes much more sense than what I read (or thought I read) and posted earlier. I can't find the article but it was an ad on a facebook page so they either got it wrong or I misread it...buuuut I most likely misread it haha.

Thanks for clearing that up. Reps your way.