ND Scheduled Georgia (Ironman leaving the Country during 2019)

[ThePiombino]

Calm down, that's not what I'm saying. But if the "Irish don't play a conference championship" stigma weighs so heavily that it affects our ability to get in the NCG, I'm just curious if it's a possibility open to ND under NCAA rules.

But that's a large part of the whole reason we play the schedule we play - to nullify the lack of conference championship game. If we manage to make it through 12 games of the current gauntlet while still somehow managing to stay in the playoff picture, I HIGHLY doubt a 13th game will do anything but hurt our chances of making it in. In other words, I don't see a 12-1 ND fairing any better than an 11-1 ND.

 

[wizards8507]

In other words, I don't see a 12-1 ND fairing any better than an 11-1 ND.

Especially based on the fact that late-season wins "count for more," because they're fresh in everyone's minds. No matter who we would play in a thirteenth game, there's no way it's going to count as much as beating "SEC East Champion" in December. Conference championship games are usually top-15 opponent versus top-15 opponent, meaning whoever wins will have JUST beaten a top-15 opponent in the last week of the season. We can schedule teams that are usually good, but the conference champions always have the trump card. Their last opponent will ALWAYS be very good by the very virtue of the fact that they're the team to reach the championship.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. A conference champion, by definition, will have beaten the conference runner-up in their final game, regardless of what schools they happen to be in a given year.

 

[adsnorri]

Looks like we're hitting Louisiana much harder now too.

Georgia tech doesn't produce a great game or environment for recruits to see ND. Georgia on the other hand offers exciting games for recruits to see and to know that ND came in and beat Georgia in GEORGIA. If we lose....were still willing to play anyone and that proves it

 

[wizards8507]

Looks like we're hitting Louisiana much harder now too.

Georgia tech doesn't produce a great game or environment for recruits to see ND. Georgia on the other hand offers exciting games for recruits to see and to know that ND came in and beat Georgia in GEORGIA.

That just feels like blowing smoke. If I'm a recruit and I go to a great game with a great atmosphere in Georgia, that's going to make me want to go to GEORGIA.

If we lose....were still willing to play anyone and that proves it.

I can't imagine recruits giving a shit.

 

[adsnorri]

Playing in big, exciting games doesn't mean much to recruits? What are you talking about with blowing smoke... The atmosphere means a lot for the overall excitement factor. If they go to a big game in Georgia and see Notre Dame beat Georgia, I will be interested.

I think recruits want to be a part of a club that plays in big games against great competition and is willing to play anyone. You dont?

 

[wizards8507]

I think recruits want to be a part of a club that plays in big games against great competition and is willing to play anyone. You dont?

No, I don't. I think recruits would rather play a mediocre schedule followed by the SEC Championship and the College Football Playoff. I really don't think they give a rip that a team is "willing to play anyone."

I also think the impact that away games have on recruiting is VASTLY overestimated.

 

[Ndaccountant]

No, I don't. I think recruits would rather play a mediocre schedule followed by the SEC Championship and the College Football Playoff. I really don't think they give a rip that a team is "willing to play anyone."

I also think the impact that away games have on recruiting is VASTLY overestimated.

So what do you think the allure is of playing in the SEC? Bagmen aside, numerous players talk about wanting to play the best. Right now, that is the SEC.

 

[IrishBlood81]

BK won't be here in 2019.

Is that confirmed? Whats your source? Where is he going? Kent State??
...Meltdown in process...please wait...

yes but it has to be in Hawaii

Na, its gotta be in either the Soviet Union, Somalia or Mongolia...expand our recruiting grounds, you know?

 

[ulukinatme]

Calm down, that's not what I'm saying. But if the "Irish don't play a conference championship" stigma weighs so heavily that it affects our ability to get in the NCG, I'm just curious if it's a possibility open to ND under NCAA rules.

I was thinking about this too during the off season. I realize our schedule already is pretty tough, but what if Independent programs got the benefit of scheduling a 13th game? Maybe we can throw out a game against a very tough 12th opponent for two more average ones? Maybe it allows us not to be so rusty going into a bowl game, who knows? Of course, we could be more banged up as a result.

 

[irishfan]

I was thinking about this too during the off season. I realize our schedule already is pretty tough, but what if Independent programs got the benefit of scheduling a 13th game? Maybe we can throw out a game against a very tough 12th opponent for two more average ones? Maybe it allows us not to be so rusty going into a bowl game, who knows? Of course, we could be more banged up as a result.

ND/BYU during conf. championship week wouldn't be the worst idea....

 

[ulukinatme]

ND/BYU during conf. championship week wouldn't be the worst idea....

If I recall theres some rule that prevents any regular season games during conference championships, but I could be totally wrong. I figured the week before would be fine, and that way theres less rust for us in a bowl game.

 

[ACamp1900]

Honestly, I'm all for no half way crooks here with the ACC... We locked ourselves into five games already... I say get out of that as soon as possible or, preferably; just join the damn conference in football... just me.

 

[IrishLax]

If I recall theres some rule that prevents any regular season games during conference championships, but I could be totally wrong. I figured the week before would be fine, and that way theres less rust for us in a bowl game.

I think that is wrong? I'm not sure, I think I remember conferences that didn't have a championship game like Big 12 scheduling games for that weekend. Most schedules don't have games I think because you have to account for the possibility of playing in your championship game.

 

[gkIrish]

If I recall theres some rule that prevents any regular season games during conference championships, but I could be totally wrong. I figured the week before would be fine, and that way theres less rust for us in a bowl game.

Army Navy play after the conference championships so I don't there is such a rule.

 

[koonja]

Honestly, I'm all for no half way crooks here with the ACC... We locked ourselves into five games already... I say get out of that as soon as possible or, preferably; just join the damn conference in football... just me.

JK, I was waiting for a reason to use the GIF.

 

[wizards8507]

ND/BYU during conf. championship week wouldn't be the worst idea....

I think BYU is exactly the kind of opponent that ND should be staying away from, especially in any kind of hypothetical 13th game. BYU is one of those "usually pretty good" teams that could hit you with a late-season loss (worst case scenario), but probably won't make anyone go "wow" if you beat them, especially when the teams we'll be compared to are playing the best opponent in their conference in that season.

I keep saying this but nobody seems to get it yet. We're at a severe disadvantage when it comes to scheduling "marquee" games because we're scheduling way out in advance based on how we THINK programs are going to look. Scheduling Oklahoma, Georgia, and Texas sounds great unless you end up playing those teams in a 4-8 year. Again, the conference champions don't know who they'll be playing in their final game, but they know they'll be high-profile and probably 9-3 at worst.

All that said, I like the move to schedule Georgia because it at least increases our odds of a high-profile matchup. My earlier posts that seemed to criticize the move are simply because I don't buy the recruiting angle of the whole thing. I personally want to see us "unafraid to take on anyone and beat them," but I'm skeptical that recruits think that way.

 

[ulukinatme]

Army Navy play after the conference championships so I don't there is such a rule.

Thats kind of a special circumstance though. They used to meet the first Saturday in December and it would always be the last game of the regular season. It was moved to the second Saturday after college football went to the 12 game format, that way it wouldn't conflict with the conference championships and would still be the last game.

 

[NDJimmy]

The ESPN article indicates ND must reschedule '17 & '19 Texas games. I thought the second pair of ND-Texas games were '19 & '20. That would only necessitate rescheduling '19. Seems workable.
Apologies if my info is incorrect, or if someone already brought this up.
Georgia is prime recruiting country, I'm glad we're getting in there more than once in 6 years (GT).

 

[NCND]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W7r8SSQX18

 

[philipm31]

Before you get all haughty you might want to actually read the post. He specifically said the Deep South and labeled them as Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississipi. We don't and have never consistently recruited well from those areas. He wasn't talking about Texas or Florida and he specifically said so.

~eyeroll #infinitystamped #notakesesbacksies

So Texas and FL are NOT deep south?

GA is not deep south???

The three states that he mentioned do NOT make up the South, or even the deep south.

Sorry for not thinking that those three states make up a quarter of the country.



The POINT is that we already have a strong presence in some parts of the Deep South (TN, KY, TX, GA, just off the top of my head), and Kelly wants to make stronger in-roads back into those places and expand out to other parts of the deep south.

It is blatantly obvious that is what he is doing.

And yes, I read his post, and I understood what he was saying. I was pointing out the defeatist logic about it. If we want to actually be a national brand, then we should not cross off a section of the country, or not even try.

And considering the fact it is already threatening the TX series, then I have a feeling that Jack is a LITTLE bit better of foreseeing how things will change better than we all do.

The schedule is not going to be THAT hard in three years, or even five years.

Unless you think that MSU, STAN, FSU, CLEM and MIA are all going to be in the top five for the next five-ten years....which they won't be.

 

[philipm31]

The ESPN article indicates ND must reschedule '17 & '19 Texas games. I thought the second pair of ND-Texas games were '19 & '20. That would only necessitate rescheduling '19. Seems workable.
Apologies if my info is incorrect, or if someone already brought this up.
Georgia is prime recruiting country, I'm glad we're getting in there more than once in 6 years (GT).

BINGO.

 

[philipm31]

The funniest part about these two posts is how you clearly either did not read what I said or didn't take the time to understand it but then got all up on your high horse and even threw in an "eyeroll"... its' a bad look, dude.

I'm tempted to just not even respond and just let you re-read the post you quoted.

I clearly say recruiting the south IS important for a large number of states, and that the areas that are most important to us (Florida, Georgia, Carolinas, Virginia) are actually covered by the ACC footprint comparably or better than the SEC. I enumerated the 3 states not covered by the ACC footprint in the "deep" south (Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama) as the ones being of relative insignificance to Notre Dame's recruiting efforts. In Kelly's four signed classes, he has signed 0 prospects from these states. And I talk about how you can effectively get into Texas with the Shamrock Series.

So yeah... do better, and next time definitely don't be a douche without actually reading the post.

I did read your post and I stand by what I said.

The ACC is SHIT and to think that playing five "teams" from it makes a difference to elite recruits is just not true. The ACC is a joke, and recruits know it, which is why we need to measure ourselves against SEC competition, including recruiting in those areas where we have not been as strong in recent memory.

The whole point is that Kelly wants to break down walls to us recruiting in those three states, but scheduling five ACC teams from a "power conference" is not the same as playing a SEC team, which is THE power conference in the NCAA.

I KNOW that he has not pulled from those states, but to just assume we never will is silly and defeatist, which is why we scheduled against UGA. I assume that we try to schedule LSU again in the future, or even Ole Miss, just to get into those states a little more; but you start with an area where you already have a good connection and go from there.

It is called looking at the bigger picture, not just two or three years ahead, and trusting BK and Jack to do what is best for the University, which they have never failed to do.

 

[philipm31]

Deep South - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So basically, ND recruits in the Deep South quite well, and has done so historically. AL, MS and LA are the only states that ND has not pulled from, with regularity, in recent memory from actual Deep South. But that is where Kelly wants to go, therefore he is trying to schedule a team from the SEC.

By any definition of the "Deep South", ND has always had pull there. Sure, they have some areas of stronger influence--especially TX and FL--but there is no reason whatsoever to think that ND cannot get into the other corners of the Deep South, unless we forego the opportunity to showcase our team in the Deep South whenever we can.

Hence, the UGA game, and working at the GSU camp--and the potential cancellation of parts of the TX series, since we already have a good hold in TX, historically and recently.

FYI: According to Rivals, from 1999-2014, on average, the Irish recruiting classes are 24.4% from the Deep South, which includes SC.

 

[IrishLax]

I did read your post and I stand by what I said.

The ACC is SHIT and to think that playing five "teams" from it makes a difference to elite recruits is just not true. The ACC is a joke, and recruits know it, which is why we need to measure ourselves against SEC competition, including recruiting in those areas where we have not been as strong in recent memory.

Oh OK so playing Florida State in Florida doesn't matter but playing Georgia in Georgia does?

The whole point is that Kelly wants to break down walls to us recruiting in those three states, but scheduling five ACC teams from a "power conference" is not the same as playing a SEC team, which is THE power conference in the NCAA.

I KNOW that he has not pulled from those states, but to just assume we never will is silly and defeatist, which is why we scheduled against UGA. I assume that we try to schedule LSU again in the future, or even Ole Miss, just to get into those states a little more; but you start with an area where you already have a good connection and go from there.

LOL no it isn't... it's completely logical. You, on the other hand, are completely delusional. We are NEVER going to pull a significant number of players from those states no matter how hard we try. The most we could hope for would be 1 to 2 kids a year if they were super exceptions like Tillery.

It is called looking at the bigger picture, not just two or three years ahead, and trusting BK and Jack to do what is best for the University, which they have never failed to do.

Alright cool so when I look ahead at the big picture and importance of playing a manageable schedule (i.e. like Alabama's last year) in order to make the playoffs AND the big picture that's we're already playing many games in the south AND you ignore that BK has publicly (and privately) complained about MANY things on the schedule AND ignore that Jack, as truly great as he is, has made numerous missteps including not having an out clause with ASU, etc..... that's not good enough for you?

Deep South - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So basically, ND recruits in the Deep South quite well, and has done so historically. AL, MS and LA are the only states that ND has not pulled from, with regularity, in recent memory from actual Deep South. But that is where Kelly wants to go, therefore he is trying to schedule a team from the SEC.

Which is why I SPECIFICALLY named those three states and SPECIFICALLY talked about the importance of the other states.

By any definition of the "Deep South", ND has always had pull there. Sure, they have some areas of stronger influence--especially TX and FL--but there is no reason whatsoever to think that ND cannot get into the other corners of the Deep South, unless we forego the opportunity to showcase our team in the Deep South whenever we can.

Which is why, again, I SPECIFICALLY referred to the states I was talking about and SPECIFICALLY referred to the importance of Texas/Florida. I'd love to know how playing Georgia is going to help us with Texas recruits versus playing Texas again or a neutral game in Jerryworld. I'd also love to know how playing Georgia is going to help us in Florida more than playing FSU or Miami.

The reasons ND cannot get into Alabama/Mississippi/Louisiana effectively are both obvious and borderline insurmountable.

Hence, the UGA game, and working at the GSU camp--and the potential cancellation of parts of the TX series, since we already have a good hold in TX, historically and recently.

If you wanted to argue the specific Georgia-centric benefits of playing Georgia versus just working on camps there and playing in Atlanta against Georgia Tech and maybe some Shamrock Series games, that's fine. That's not what you did though.

FYI: According to Rivals, from 1999-2014, on average, the Irish recruiting classes are 24.4% from the Deep South, which includes SC.

What percentage from Alabama/Louisiana/Mississippi? You can try to change parameters and premises all you want, but it's not going to happen. The whole thing here is that you didn't or couldn't read what I wrote and responded with a ridiculous series of posts.

 

[IrishLax]

So you don't run from this... here's the series of posts you're trying to backtrack on and defend now. Bolded and underlined are my comments:

1. Notre Dame isn't going to pull a significant amount of kids from the "deep" south (Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi) even if they played all of their away games in Birmingham. We never have pulled from those areas, and we never will. This is where I clearly define the states I'm saying we don't pull from.
2. The southern states that it does matter for us to hit are part of the ACC footprint. Georgia Tech gets us into Atlanta just as well as the University of Georgia gets us into the state, if not better. FSU/Miami are in Florida, which is the most important southern state to play in by far. NC State, UNC, Duke, Wake Forest, Clemson get us into the Carolinas, which we also recruit heavily. The when it comes to playing in southern states, the ACC covers the exact same footprint as the SEC minus the deep south states that we aren't going to pull from with any regularity anyways. This is where I talk about the states in the south that are very important to us.
3. The Shamrock Series can be used to get into any state we want for a game. It can get us into Texas vs. any school we want. It can get us into Florida to play whoever we want. No matter what, that traveling home game = access to any market we deem fit... rendering any singular home-and-home for "access" or "exposure" completely moot. This is where I talk specifically about Texas and Florida and how to ensure we keep having exposure there.

NINE of our 24 recruits from 2013 (Folston, Bryant, Robinson, Heurerman, Roachell, Hunter, among others) were from the South, particularly FL and TX. This is where you list a bunch of recruits that are specifically in the areas I mentioned as being important as if I didn't say that.

7/23 in 2014 were from the South.

6/18 in 2012 were from the South.

8/24 in 2011 were from the South, as well.

So in the last 4 recruiting classes, the Irish have gotten 30/89 recruits from the South (just over 33%).

So yeah, the South has always been a hotbed or Irish recruiting, just that the interest in the South kind of ebbs and flows.

Kelly has made it a priority and to think that this is not part of the Kelly plan to get us a shot at better players is not accurate.

Saying that we never recruit well there is a fallacy (as has already clearly been pointed out, this is not even close to what I said, at all, and why greyhammer pointed out to you that you completely missed the point) because that is EXACTLY where Kelly has focused his energies in recruiting and it is working too.

We have always pulled from TX and FL, whenever we put forth a concerted effort. Just saying we will never pull from there is defeatist and silly. This is you saying that I said "we never pull from TX and FL", which is literally the opposite of what I said in the post you were quoting, proving you didn't or couldn't read it.

Might as well say we should give up CA too ~eyeroll~

There is literally no way to defend this. Your two options are two stop posting on it, or admit you completely misread the post you quoted.

 

[Cackalacky]

One thing I will add to the Deep South debate is the lack of a Catholic presence and the opinions of Deep South people regarding Catholicism. Of the states in question: Alabama, Mississippi, and large portions of Georgia do not have a Catholic presence and for the most part Catholicism is looked upon with disdain compared to the other "Christian" denominations.

The exceptions are in large city and suburban communities, for example, Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami. These are the places with kids we need to target. We simply are not going to get the average athlete from Warner Robbins, Georgia or Tuscaloosa, Alabama. It is a cultural thing.

Speaking from experience, I moved to SC over 25 years ago, and we could not find a Catholic church within 30 miles of where we purchased the home. We went to the local Baptist church and when asked what church we were from we answered we were Catholic and it was generally met with a "Bless your hearts" attitude. If you know what that means then you will know it was not a nice thing.

 

[Cackalacky]

Adding this for emphasis.

 

[NCND]

One thing I will add to the Deep South debate is the lack of a Catholic presence and the opinions of Deep South people regarding Catholicism. Of the states in question: Alabama, Mississippi, and large portions of Georgia do not have a Catholic presence and for the most part Catholicism is looked upon with disdain compared to the other "Christian" denominations.

The exceptions are in large city and suburban communities, for example, Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami. These are the places with kids we need to target. We simply are not going to get the average athlete from Warner Robbins, Georgia or Tuscaloosa, Alabama. It is a cultural thing.

Speaking from experience, I moved to SC over 25 years ago, and we could not find a Catholic church within 30 miles of where we purchased the home. We went to the local Baptist church and when asked what church we were from we answered we were Catholic and it was generally met with a "Bless yours hearts" attitude. If you know what that means then you will know it was not a nice thing.

Lol. I'm from Concord, NC. I know what u mean.

 

[ACamp1900]

Adding this for emphasis.

Fucking Utah

 

[dublinirish]

lol from experiences of being in southern GA if you aint a Baptist you might as well be affiliated with good old Satan himself. People will look at you the same way