'14 OH QB DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame Signee)

[Cackalacky]

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He makes good decisions and shows composure. Also is able to go through his progression and pick up the yards on foot when needed.

 

[Bluto]

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He makes good decisions and shows composure. Also is able to go through his progression and pick up the yards on foot when needed.

Looks better than Rees coming out of high school. Lol.

 

[NCND]

Lol. That's EXACTLY what I was about to post.

 

[Ironman8]

Surprised some people are so bearish on Kizer. He seems to have the frame and time to develop. We have a QB coach who'll be working with him for the next year or two before he sees game snaps and he'll be in college strength and conditioning program. He appears to be a passer first, runner second. We don't need a recruit to come in and expect to be king, we need a guy who is willing to learn the system and emerge when he's ready.

I think we have the perfect compliment in Kizer to our current QB roster. We already have two highly competitive QBs who'll tutor Kizer as they earn their reps. We will see Golson and Zaire play this year and that will benefit Kizer as he'll be learning from two guys who understand the pressure of being ND's QB.

I think we have a great recruit in Kizer. I'm just shocked that having gone through the last 4 years, we could see so little in Kizer compared to Rees or Hendrix. (Loved the men, wished they had more ability).

Great post. Agree with all of this. People are seriously underrating Kizer as a prospect. Does he need time to develop? Of course. But he has a TON of tools to be a very good college QB. I know Lemming can be a homer, but this kid was a top 50 recruit on his list. You have to have talent to be rated that high, even on a homer's list.

There are no sure things in CFB, especially in QB recruiting (how many high profile recruits have flamed out recently?), but if you recruit on tools and intangibles and develop them properly, you can really hit a home run.

Kizer has the size, athletic ability, arm and intangibles to be very, very good. The only thing I didn't love about Kizer was his slowish release, but he has reportedly been working for over a year to shorten it up. But obviously ND, Alabama, LSU, Michigan State, Nebraska, North Carolina, Tennessee, etc. all saw the talent there enough to offer.

Excited to see what he can bring starting this fall.

 

[Cackalacky]

Lol. That's EXACTLY what I was about to post.

Looks better than Rees coming out of high school. Lol.

 

[kmoose]

Many posters on here are underestimating Kizer's ability. He was highly rated coming out of high school and has done nothing to diminish that rating. This young man has the potential to be a very fine quarterback. However, he won't be doing it in 2014 unless their is an injury at quarterback.

Kelly has a history of redshirting quarterbacks while they learn the system. Kizer will most likely follow the same path as Zaire and Golson. He will be spending his first year preparing for his opportunity to challenge for a larger role in 2015 and 2016. Barring an injury at the QB position, Kizer will redshirt just as Golson and Zaire did their first year.

I 100% guarantee that Kizer will NOT redshirt, this year; regardless of his talent, or any injuries.

 

[Booslum31]

I 100% guarantee that Kizer will NOT redshirt, this year; regardless of his talent, or any injuries.

I like your confidence Kmoose. Why do you think that's the case?

 

[koonja]

I 100% guarantee that Kizer will NOT redshirt, this year; regardless of his talent, or any injuries.

I'll take that bet.

 

[kmoose]

I like your confidence Kmoose. Why do you think that's the case?

Because ND doesn't redshirt. And before someone cries foul, and says that they, in essence, do; let's look at the difference.

QB Joe Smith enrolls at Alabama. He is held out of any game action, in his first season, to preserve a year of eligibility. At the end of the year, the school petitions the NCAA for an additional year of eligibility for the player, to replace the one that he "missed", this year. The NCAA pretty much rubber stamps this application, and the player now, at the end of his freshman academic year, has another 4 years of eligibility. All the kid has to do is remain eligible, and earn a starting spot, and he will be guaranteed to have 4 years on the field.

This is called redshirting.

Now........ QB John Smith enrolls at ND. He is held out of action, because the coaches want him to learn/develop physically before he sees the field. At the end of the season, he has used up a year of eligibility. ND COULD petition for that year back, since he didn't see the field, but they don't. So now the player only has 3 years of eligibility left. He has 4 years to complete those three years, but he only has three years. IF the player graduates in 4 years, AND is accepted to a graduate program at ND, THEN the University will petition to have his freshman football year given back to him, providing him with another year. That's why ND has 5th years, and not Redshirt Seniors............. because, if you want an extra year, then you have to succeed as a student, first.

It's a very important distinction, that says a lot about ND's commitment to educating her athletes.

 

[WestCoast]

I like your confidence Kmoose. Why do you think that's the case?

Kmoose is George Zimmer. He has more time to follow football now with the firing and all.

 

[md_bennett]

Because ND doesn't redshirt. And before someone cries foul, and says that they, in essence, do; let's look at the difference.

QB Joe Smith enrolls at Alabama. He is held out of any game action, in his first season, to preserve a year of eligibility. At the end of the year, the school petitions the NCAA for an additional year of eligibility for the player, to replace the one that he "missed", this year. The NCAA pretty much rubber stamps this application, and the player now, at the end of his freshman academic year, has another 4 years of eligibility. All the kid has to do is remain eligible, and earn a starting spot, and he will be guaranteed to have 4 years on the field.

This is called redshirting.

Now........ QB John Smith enrolls at ND. He is held out of action, because the coaches want him to learn/develop physically before he sees the field. At the end of the season, he has used up a year of eligibility. ND COULD petition for that year back, since he didn't see the field, but they don't. So now the player only has 3 years of eligibility left. He has 4 years to complete those three years, but he only has three years. IF the player graduates in 4 years, AND is accepted to a graduate program at ND, THEN the University will petition to have his freshman football year given back to him, providing him with another year. That's why ND has 5th years, and not Redshirt Seniors............. because, if you want an extra year, then you have to succeed as a student, first.

It's a very important distinction, that says a lot about ND's commitment to educating her athletes.

This is a very important distinction as all of our 5th years are grad students. Well put and reps to you sir!

 

[NDhoosier]

I 100% guarantee that Kizer will NOT redshirt, this year; regardless of his talent, or any injuries.

I will bet all of my e-money and take that bet!

Kizer will redshirt this year.

 

[Booslum31]

Because ND doesn't redshirt. And before someone cries foul, and says that they, in essence, do; let's look at the difference.

QB Joe Smith enrolls at Alabama. He is held out of any game action, in his first season, to preserve a year of eligibility. At the end of the year, the school petitions the NCAA for an additional year of eligibility for the player, to replace the one that he "missed", this year. The NCAA pretty much rubber stamps this application, and the player now, at the end of his freshman academic year, has another 4 years of eligibility. All the kid has to do is remain eligible, and earn a starting spot, and he will be guaranteed to have 4 years on the field.

This is called redshirting.

Now........ QB John Smith enrolls at ND. He is held out of action, because the coaches want him to learn/develop physically before he sees the field. At the end of the season, he has used up a year of eligibility. ND COULD petition for that year back, since he didn't see the field, but they don't. So now the player only has 3 years of eligibility left. He has 4 years to complete those three years, but he only has three years. IF the player graduates in 4 years, AND is accepted to a graduate program at ND, THEN the University will petition to have his freshman football year given back to him, providing him with another year. That's why ND has 5th years, and not Redshirt Seniors............. because, if you want an extra year, then you have to succeed as a student, first.

It's a very important distinction, that says a lot about ND's commitment to educating her athletes.

thanks Kmoose...always wondered why we called them 5th years and not redshirts.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Because ND doesn't redshirt. And before someone cries foul, and says that they, in essence, do; let's look at the difference.

QB Joe Smith enrolls at Alabama. He is held out of any game action, in his first season, to preserve a year of eligibility. At the end of the year, the school petitions the NCAA for an additional year of eligibility for the player, to replace the one that he "missed", this year. The NCAA pretty much rubber stamps this application, and the player now, at the end of his freshman academic year, has another 4 years of eligibility. All the kid has to do is remain eligible, and earn a starting spot, and he will be guaranteed to have 4 years on the field.

This is called redshirting.

Now........ QB John Smith enrolls at ND. He is held out of action, because the coaches want him to learn/develop physically before he sees the field. At the end of the season, he has used up a year of eligibility. ND COULD petition for that year back, since he didn't see the field, but they don't. So now the player only has 3 years of eligibility left. He has 4 years to complete those three years, but he only has three years. IF the player graduates in 4 years, AND is accepted to a graduate program at ND, THEN the University will petition to have his freshman football year given back to him, providing him with another year. That's why ND has 5th years, and not Redshirt Seniors............. because, if you want an extra year, then you have to succeed as a student, first.

It's a very important distinction, that says a lot about ND's commitment to educating her athletes.

Can you provide an example of a player who was eligible for a 5th year, the staff wanted, but was denied the opportunity because he couldn't get into a grad program at ND?

 

[kmoose]

Can you provide an example of a player who was eligible for a 5th year, the staff wanted, but was denied the opportunity because he couldn't get into a grad program at ND?

No, I can't. But I'm not sure how that is pertinent?

 

[IrishLion]

Addendum:

DeShone Kizer will not see the field this season, in hopes of preserving a year of eligibility down the road once he is admitted to grad school at ND, if his career takes him upon that path.

TL;DR
Kizer won't play this year, regardless of how you categorize it.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

No, I can't. But I'm not sure how that is pertinent?

I'm just wondering if the theoretical difference has any real effects other than forcing players to graduate in four years (not that I am minimizing the importance of that). My point being that if nobody who the staff wants for a 5th year is going to be kept out of the MBA program, for example, then this distinction that we draw starts to fall apart a little. I'm just wondering if this is something that sounds better than it really is.

I also ask because the term "redshirt" is used by the compliance staff, academic support staff, and people even higher up in the athletic department. The impression I always got from them is that it's a distinction without much of a difference and they are perfectly comfortable using "redshirt" to describe players.

 

[kmoose]

I'm just wondering if the theoretical difference has any real effects other than forcing players to graduate in four years (not that I am minimizing the importance of that). My point being that if nobody who the staff wants for a 5th year is going to be kept out of the MBA program, for example, then this distinction that we draw starts to fall apart a little. I'm just wondering if this is something that sounds better than it really is.

I also ask because the term "redshirt" is used by the compliance staff, academic support staff, and people even higher up in the athletic department. The impression I always got from them is that it's a distinction without much of a difference and they are perfectly comfortable using "redshirt" to describe players.

They can certainly use the terminology, if they want, to describe their process. However, the process that they follow is significantly different from that of other schools. So it really isn't the same. The best example I can offer you is to look at the roster; ND uses academic year to list their players, whereas other schools use the term RS(Redshirt) Fr., RS Soph., etc.

I would think that any preferential admissions would probably be based more on the fact that the applicant has an undergraduate degree from ND, rather than their status on the football field. In other words..... I would think that ND would take virtually all of the ND undergrads who applied for Graduate programs, simply because they can be assured that these kids understand the University's educational philosophy, and they know that the kids have what it takes, to succeed in their program.

 

[ulukinatme]

I will bet all of my e-money and take that bet!

Kizer will redshirt this year.

If you read kmoose's previous post...you'd realize that you're about to be v-poor

 

[pkt77242]

Because ND doesn't redshirt. And before someone cries foul, and says that they, in essence, do; let's look at the difference.

QB Joe Smith enrolls at Alabama. He is held out of any game action, in his first season, to preserve a year of eligibility. At the end of the year, the school petitions the NCAA for an additional year of eligibility for the player, to replace the one that he "missed", this year. The NCAA pretty much rubber stamps this application, and the player now, at the end of his freshman academic year, has another 4 years of eligibility. All the kid has to do is remain eligible, and earn a starting spot, and he will be guaranteed to have 4 years on the field.

This is called redshirting.

Now........ QB John Smith enrolls at ND. He is held out of action, because the coaches want him to learn/develop physically before he sees the field. At the end of the season, he has used up a year of eligibility. ND COULD petition for that year back, since he didn't see the field, but they don't. So now the player only has 3 years of eligibility left. He has 4 years to complete those three years, but he only has three years. IF the player graduates in 4 years, AND is accepted to a graduate program at ND, THEN the University will petition to have his freshman football year given back to him, providing him with another year. That's why ND has 5th years, and not Redshirt Seniors............. because, if you want an extra year, then you have to succeed as a student, first.

It's a very important distinction, that says a lot about ND's commitment to educating her athletes.

Nope to the bolded. One refers to academic standing (5th year student) and one refers to sports eligibility (RS Senior). Pure semantics.

Though I do agree that ND requiring athletes to graduate in 4 years and be going to graduate school for the 5th year is different and better.

 

[pkt77242]

They can certainly use the terminology, if they want, to describe their process. However, the process that they follow is significantly different from that of other schools. So it really isn't the same. The best example I can offer you is to look at the roster; ND uses academic year to list their players, whereas other schools use the term RS(Redshirt) Fr., RS Soph., etc.

I would think that any preferential admissions would probably be based more on the fact that the applicant has an undergraduate degree from ND, rather than their status on the football field. In other words..... I would think that ND would take virtually all of the ND undergrads who applied for Graduate programs, simply because they can be assured that these kids understand the University's educational philosophy, and they know that the kids have what it takes, to succeed in their program.

Why do you think that? ND lowers it standards for undergraduate acceptance for athletes why wouldn't they for graduate school for a valuable member of the football team?

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

They can certainly use the terminology, if they want, to describe their process. However, the process that they follow is significantly different from that of other schools. So it really isn't the same. The best example I can offer you is to look at the roster; ND uses academic year to list their players, whereas other schools use the term RS(Redshirt) Fr., RS Soph., etc.

I would think that any preferential admissions would probably be based more on the fact that the applicant has an undergraduate degree from ND, rather than their status on the football field. In other words..... I would think that ND would take virtually all of the ND undergrads who applied for Graduate programs, simply because they can be assured that these kids understand the University's educational philosophy, and they know that the kids have what it takes, to succeed in their program.

Isn't the first example pretty much the same as mine? Oh well, it's not a big deal.

I'm sure all ND grads do receive preferential treatment in admissions decisions, but grad schools do have reputations to maintain and I'm sure they accept less than "virtually all" of the ND applicants. In fact, I think there is at least one poster I know of who graduated from ND, applied to another program at ND, and didn't get in. If the MBA program denies an ND applicant with a 2.5 and a 540 GMAT, but accepts a fifth year football player with those numbers, then the process has the same result as the rubber stamped redshirt at another school, the fifth year/redshirt senior year is automatic if there is mutual interest.

I would love to hear from someone who knows if this happens.

 

[kmoose]

If the MBA program denies an ND applicant with a 2.5 and a 540 GMAT, but accepts a fifth year football player with those numbers, then the process has the same result as the rubber stamped redshirt at another school...

Not really, though. I know you already said that you recognize this, but for those who might have somehow just now joined the thread: There is no requirement to graduate, in order to get a fifth year, at other schools. And that's important! Here is a small look at the difference:

From the article: Leinart dancing through final semester at USC - College Football - ESPN

There is this:

A sociology major, Leinart needs two credits to graduate as he begins his fifth year at USC.


"School's done for me -- I'm here to concentrate on football," he said.


Leinart will complete his schooling by taking a class in ballroom dancing with Cameron, a sophomore from Thousand Oaks who plays on USC's women's basketball team.


"We both kind of figured, 'Let's take that.' We'll practice our tango or whatever the heck they do -- the 1-2 step," Leinart said, smiling.


Sure beats working

 

[ulukinatme]

I'm sure Leinart's previous 4 years at USC were much, much tougher than his final fall semester....

 

[kmoose]

I'm sure Leinart's previous 4 years at USC were much, much tougher than his final fall semester....

Interestingly enough..... this was the same season (2005) that Reggie Bush's parents were living in an upscale San Diego neighborhood, rent free. It was also the season of the Bush Push, and then Black Jesus' defeat of the Men of Troy, in the Rose Bowl.

 

[NDhoosier]

If you read kmoose's previous post...you'd realize that you're about to be v-poor

semantics... He knew what I meant.

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Irish A-to-Z: DeShone*Kizer <a href="http://t.co/VFKfMYKBi8">http://t.co/VFKfMYKBi8</a></p>— Keith Arnold (@KeithArnold) <a href="https://twitter.com/KeithArnold/statuses/489848236576747520">July 17, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[BobbyMac]

Nope to the bolded. One refers to academic standing (5th year student) and one refers to sports eligibility (RS Senior). Pure semantics.

Though I do agree that ND requiring athletes to graduate in 4 years and be going to graduate school for the 5th year is different and better.

does Golson have to graduate this academic calendar year to be eligible to play next year?

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

does Golson have to graduate this academic calendar year to be eligible to play next year?

Great question. He didn't take any classes while on suspension.

 

[pumpdog20]

Great question. He didn't take any classes while on suspension.

But he did EE, so maybe it's a wash?