Donald Sterling is not a progressive thinker

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Bogtrotter07

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I tend to agree. But, if you take that attitude, then you are asserting that a certain threshold of racism must exist before there is outrage.

Where do you draw the line?

Reps, sir! That is why minor issues need to be treated as the racism they are, even though they may need to be handled carefully. The way you weed out an institutionalized social ill is by killing it. But any smart gardener knows you need to kill all of the weed, but the skill comes in not damaging surrounding plants. Kill other plants and society suffers. Miss some of the weed's roots, and it just springs back.
 

Irish Houstonian

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They...cannot take his team...

That's wrong. Article 13 of the Constitution allows for termination of a Member upon violation of the Bylaws or other agreements of the NBA. And Article 35 allows the Commissioner to set whatever penalty he wants, if none is prescribed for a particular violation. So while we can debate the merits of this particlar circumstance, or what will actually happen, it's just wrong to say that the NBA "cannot" take his team.
 

gkIrish

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That's wrong. Article 13 of the Constitution allows for termination of a Member upon violation of the Bylaws or other agreements of the NBA. And Article 35 allows the Commissioner to set whatever penalty he wants, if none is prescribed for a particular violation. So while we can debate the merits of this particlar circumstance, or what will actually happen, it's just wrong to say that the NBA "cannot" take his team.

Irish Insanity is completely right. They cannot "take" his team. They can only make him sell it.
 

Irish Houstonian

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Irish Insanity is completely right. They cannot "take" his team. They can only make him sell it.

lol. It sounds like we're disagreeing over what it means to "terminate" a "Membership".

(9) “Membership” shall mean the rights, privileges, and benefits granted to a Member by the Association, including, without limitation, the right to organize and operate a professional basketball team to play in the league operated by the Association.

ARTICLE 13
TERMINATION OF OWNERSHIP OR MEMBERSHIP
The Membership of a Member or the interest of any Owner may be terminated by a vote of three fourths (3/4) of the Board of Governors if the Member or Owner shall do or suffer any of the following:

http://mediacentral.nba.com/media/mediacentral/NBA-Constitution-and-By-Laws.pdf
 
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Cackalacky

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Irish Insanity is completely right. They cannot "take" his team. They can only make him sell it.

They can terminate his ownership. Its part of his agreement to be a member of the NBA via his title as an owner. 3/4 of the other owners can vote him out. He agreed to this prior to becoming an NBA team owner. No one is "taking" anything.
 

gkIrish

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They can terminate his ownership. Its part of his agreement to be a member of the NBA via his title as an owner. 3/4 of the other owners can vote him out. He agreed to this prior to becoming an NBA team owner. No one is "taking" anything.

You know it's too early in the morning when you are disagreeing with what the verb "take" means.
 

irishog77

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What are any of your opinions on these items of fallout from this situation:

UCLA Rejects $3M Gift From Donald Sterling For Kidney Research « CBS Los Angeles

and

NAACP: Sterling’s Lifetime Ban Isn’t Enough, Want To Meet With Silver « CBS DC

For me the first one is just sad because the people it really hurts are those with kidney problems. When it comes to bad people or bad money, if there is anything that makes any kind of bright spot come about it would be its use in charity or research to help the sick and injured. He will not be thought of as a hero, but at least the $$$ is put to good use.

The other story is just weird considering the NAACP was about to give him an award until this nugget found its way to the surface.

UCLA is Fing stupid. I don't care how "dirty" the money is, funding for health research is funding for health research. Take the money and show the world that you can do more good with his $3 mill than that racist scumbag ever could.

NAACP is too funny, because evidently they were fine with his documented prior history of being a racist PoS, oh, but now, noooo, you gotta go. This is exactly what Bomani Jones was hammering. NAACP and the sponsors pulling out are nothing more than a clear case of covering their asses.

Didn't the naacp chapter in L.A. come out yesterday and essentially say they were going to forgive him? And that he was giving them more money?

I'll look for that in a minute.
 

Irish Houstonian

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To be sure, there are certain things that Clippers L.P. has that a new owner would want, but that could only be transferred via sale. (Meaning the NBA couldn't take them.)

For example, they probably have a lease with the Staples Center (or wherever they play), they have employment agreements with staff, some operating assets, maybe some inventory, maybe some limited trade-mark or limited name rights, and sponsorship agreements (if any are left).

So if the next owner wanted a "turn-key" franchise, then they would have to buy this stuff from Clipper L.P. in order to do this. It's not necessary, of course, but it would make life a whole lot easier than starting over from scratch.

For this reason, and because a protracted legal battle is probably not what the NBA wants, I personally believe a sale of the team is by far the most likely scenario.
 

Irish Insanity

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lol. It sounds like we're disagreeing over what it means to "terminate" a "Membership".





http://mediacentral.nba.com/media/mediacentral/NBA-Constitution-and-By-Laws.pdf

I don't believe I ever spoke in reference to terminating his membership. My original post was in reply to someone who said they would take his team.
As far as termination of his membership, I mentioned several posts back that if I was the Commish I would give him a date of close of business Friday to put it for sale. If he didn't meet the deadline I would remove his teams association with the NBA. His billion dollar franchise would be worthless.
 

Irish Insanity

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They can terminate his ownership. Its part of his agreement to be a member of the NBA via his title as an owner. 3/4 of the other owners can vote him out. He agreed to this prior to becoming an NBA team owner. No one is "taking" anything.

They cannot terminate his ownership. They can terminate his association with theirs. But they can't take his property.
 
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Cackalacky

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You know it's too early in the morning when you are disagreeing with what the verb "take" means.

clintonis.jpg


LOL. He relinquished some of his rights by choosing to be a member in the NBA ownership. I am not sure why this is a hard thing to understand. Plus he will be forced to sell so its not like he will be unfairly compensated either.
 
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irishog77

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Didn't the naacp chapter in L.A. come out yesterday and essentially say they were going to forgive him? And that he was giving them more money?

I'll look for that in a minute.

So I guess it was yes and no.

NAACP Willing to 'Forgive' Clippers' Donald Sterling After Yanking Award - ABC News

This part made me laugh:
God teaches us to forgive, and the way I look at it, after a sustained period of proof to the African American community that those words don't reflect his heart, I think there's room for forgiveness. I wouldn't be a Christian if I said there wasn't," Jenkins said.

"We are negotiating with him about giving more moneys to African American students at UCLA, and so we are in preliminary discussions," Jenkins said. He also noted, however, they had not spoken since the scandal broke.
 

gkIrish

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clintonis.jpg


LOL. He relinquished some of his rights by choosing to be a member in the NBA ownership. I am not sure why this is a hard thing to understand. Plus he will be forced to sell so its not like he will be unfairly compensated either.

this...


They cannot terminate his ownership. They can terminate his association with theirs. But they can't take his property.
 
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Cackalacky

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They cannot terminate his ownership. They can terminate his association with theirs. But they can't take his property.

Hypothetical here:

You want to be a partner in an awesome venture. To be a partner you have to have capital to purchase a portion of the venture. You also have to agree to certain laws governing the group and venture which is subject to oversight by one person with limited powers and the other partners. Some of these laws address actions not specifically specified that are detrimental to the groups ability to make money. You agree and enter into the contract and partnership with the others.

You then go on to act like a douche, severely tarnishing the image of the venture. Boycotts are planned, revenue could be lost...etc... The partners vote you out and force you to sell your part of the group.

How is this "taking" when the contract was freely entered into and is contingent on you not being a giant POS?
 
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Cackalacky

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They can by a 3/4 vote from the owners and forcing him to sell. He agreed to this.

Is it possible for Silver and the NBA to terminate Sterling's franchise ownership?

A: Yes. Under the terms of Paragraph 13 of the constitution, the owners can terminate another owner's franchise with a vote of three-fourths of the NBA Board of Governors, which is composed of all 30 owners. The power to terminate is limited to things like gambling and fraud in the application for ownership, but it also includes a provision for termination when an owner "fails to fulfill" a "contractual obligation" in "such a way as to affect the [NBA] or its members adversely." Silver and the owners could assert that Sterling's statements violated the constitution's requirements to conduct business on a "reasonable" and "ethical" level.

Any owner or Silver can initiate the termination procedure with a written charge describing the violation. Sterling would have five days to respond to the charge with a written answer. The commissioner would then schedule a special meeting of the NBA Board of Governors within 10 days. Both sides would have a chance to present their evidence, and then the board would vote. If three-fourths of the board members vote to terminate, then Sterling would face termination of his ownership. It would require a vote of two-thirds of the board to reduce the termination to a fine. Terminating a franchise would obviously be a drastic remedy, but the potential of the termination procedure gives Silver and the other owners vast leverage in any discussion with Sterling about an involuntary sale of his team.
 
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gkIrish

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They can by a 3/4 vote from the owners and forcing him to sell. He agreed to this.

We are saying the same thing. Someone made it sound like they can take away his ownership without compensation. That's all I was disagreeing with.
 
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Cackalacky

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We are saying the same thing. Someone made it sound like they can take away his ownership without compensation. That's all I was disagreeing with.

OK. IDK who that was. They will force him to sell at worst.
 

Irish Insanity

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We are saying the same thing. Someone made it sound like they can take away his ownership without compensation. That's all I was disagreeing with.

That statement is what I was speaking towards.

Can't we all just get along.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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See, instead of getting into a pissing match about semantics, the real conversation is, will this just be another whitewash of reprehensible behavior of those with the power, privlige, or wealth to be in leadership roles. If there is no teaching moment from this if another asshat who thinks and feels the same way is allowed to reward him incredibly well, and take over, business as usual, we all will have lost. Like the Irish of past, often African-Americans are prized as soldiers, slaves, athletes, and otherwise relegated to menial jobs, and substandard living environments. Not the gifted few, that can be so exploited that they can reach rewards far past what is average and expected, but those with no special skill or talent. A) Is one group compensated equivalently for their performance, and represented in a broad range of occupations(?), and B) when you talk about watershed events in equality, are you talking about the majority of a group, or an elite few, and are the less successful members needs being advanced as well as the more successful member's needs?
 

irishfan

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Odd how Sterling hasn't made any sort of comment....maybe waiting until after the owner vote?
 

wizards8507

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Odd how Sterling hasn't made any sort of comment....maybe waiting until after the owner vote?

Is this the owner vote that needs to be 75% or the one that needs to be unanimous? I feel like I read that there were two different paths with different standards. If this has to be unanimous (and if the vote is anonymous), I don't see it going through. It's easy to slam Sterling publicly, but I can't imagine every single owner privately signing up for this kind of precedent.
 

Huntr

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I just don't see how an NBA owner can vote with him if there is a non-zero chance the votes gets leaked. PR hit would be massive.
 

irishfan

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Is this the owner vote that needs to be 75% or the one that needs to be unanimous? I feel like I read that there were two different paths with different standards. If this has to be unanimous (and if the vote is anonymous), I don't see it going through. It's easy to slam Sterling publicly, but I can't imagine every single owner privately signing up for this kind of precedent.

Agreed. And to go along with this, from the SI article I posted last night, owners should be very wary about setting this precedent:

2. Sterling suing may lead to pretrial discovery, which could be designed in part to embarrass other owners and NBA officials of any bigoted remarks or beliefs on their part. Keep in mind, if Sterling is ousted because of racism, he would likely demand that evidence showing that other owners and officials are also racist be shared. He would use such information to portray his penalty as unwarranted and contradicted by the conduct of those who ousted him. Sterling might request emails and other records from owners and officials that depict them in a negative light. Sterling has owned the Clippers for 33 years, which suggests that he has had many interactions -- including private conversations with league officials and owners. If there are other owners who are racist or bigoted, it stands to reason Sterling knows who they are.

Read More: Donald Sterling, NBA set for epic legal fight over Clippers - NBA - Michael McCann - SI.com
 

Irish Insanity

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Is this the owner vote that needs to be 75% or the one that needs to be unanimous? I feel like I read that there were two different paths with different standards. If this has to be unanimous (and if the vote is anonymous), I don't see it going through. It's easy to slam Sterling publicly, but I can't imagine every single owner privately signing up for this kind of precedent.

It's 75% but has been reported it seems will be unanimous. I agree with you. I only see unanimous if it's not a silent vote. Cuban came out prior to the yesterday's press conference saying he doesn't support Sterling, but you also have to think what future doors will be opened forcing him to sell.
 

Emcee77

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I think we are on completely different pages so I'm going to step away from this portion of the discussion.

gk, I couldn't spend much time on the board yesterday afternoon and evening because of work and family, so I too had to "step away," but I am still genuinely curious to about how you view this issue and I would appreciate it if you would answer (pm is fine if you think this is no longer relevant to the conversation in this thread).

I mean, are you saying that there is something wrong with members of a partnership or LLC expelling a member because they think their association with that member makes their product toxic and could hurt their economic interests by reducing sponsorship dollars or driving away consumers? I do find that conclusion outrageous -- I mean why do Sterling's rights and interests take precedence over the other owners'? -- but it did seem to be what you were saying to me. Please explain to me what I've misunderstood.
 
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gkIrish

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gk, I couldn't spend much time on the board yesterday afternoon and evening so I too had to step away, but I am genuinely curious to about how you view this issue and I would appreciate it if you would answer (pm is fine if you think this is no longer relevant to the conversation in this thread). I mean, are you saying that there is something wrong with members of a partnership or LLC expelling a member because they think their association with that member makes their product toxic and could hurt their economic interests by reducing sponsorship dollars or driving away consumers? I do find that conclusion outrageous -- I mean why do Sterling's rights and interests take precedence over the other owners? -- and can't believe that is what you are actually saying, but it did seem that way to me. Please explain to me what I've misunderstood.

No that's not at all what I'm saying. The original argument (I think) you made is that the negative opinion of the public towards an owner of any company should be adequate to remove that person from their company. I thought you were making that argument in a vacuum. In other words, that we should be able to take the Chik-fil-A ower's company away from him if we don't like him which sounded ridiculous to me.

I didn't realize you were making an implicit connection to the fact that he is part of a larger organization and that they can disassociate from him because of the public's opinion, which you are correct about.
 

Emcee77

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No that's not at all what I'm saying. The original argument (I think) you made is that the negative opinion of the public towards an owner of any company should be adequate to remove that person from their company. I thought you were making that argument in a vacuum. In other words, that we should be able to take the Chik-fil-A ower's company away from him if we don't like him which sounded ridiculous to me.

I didn't realize you were making an implicit connection to the fact that he is part of a larger organization and that they can disassociate from him because of the public's opinion, which you are correct about.

Ah ok. I'm glad we're clear now. Thanks.
 
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