Opinions/Discussions on Guns

[Irish Houstonian]

God Bless Texas and Senator Cruz! Excellent letter by Texas Senator Ted Cruz.

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Cruz-Gun-letter-TheDC.pdf

Ted Cruz is the best. Smart guy too -- clerked for Chief Justice Rehnquist.

 

[DSully1995]

...thats really hard. I'm sure other parents would feel betrayed and all, but good for him for being a guy who stands for what he believes...even in the face of unfathomable cost...

So was it somebody in the crowd...

oh just watch it, some guy is talking about his sons death and someone yell out from the crowd about the 2nd amendment got the link Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

 

[In Lou I Trust]

http://mobile.philly.com/news/?wss=/philly/news/local/&id=188946521

Time to ban these assault bows and high-capacity quivers!!! You don't need so many levers and pulleys on a hunting weapon!

 

[DSully1995]

News - philly.com

Time to ban these assault bows and high-capacity quivers!!! You don't need so many levers and pulleys on a hunting weapon!

This kind of slippery slope nonsense ruins debate for every side, any one with common sense will realize that thousands of people dont die from bow and arrows, there are good arguments on the pro-gun side, dont resort to this

 

[In Lou I Trust]

This kind of slippery slope nonsense ruins debate for every side, any one with common sense will realize that thousands of people dont die from bow and arrows, there are good arguments on the pro-gun side, dont resort to this

They should also realize that thousands of people don't die at the hands of legal and competent gun owners each year, too.

 

[DSully1995]

They should also realize that thousands of people don't die at the hands of legal and competent gun owners each year, too.

Id like to see the fact you are presenting, have you seen what percentage is legal gun what percentage is illegal?

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Id like to see the fact you are presenting, have you seen what percentage is legal gun what percentage is illegal?

So you can say that it only takes common sense to realize that thousands don't die from bows each year but I need to present stats to make a similar statement?

 

[woolybug25]

So you can say that it only takes common sense to realize that thousands don't die from bows each year but I need to present stats to make a similar statement?

You're the one that posted the link, not him. What are you talking about?

 

[phgreek]

oh just watch it, some guy is talking about his sons death and someone yell out from the crowd about the 2nd amendment got the link Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

This seems like he is suppportive of gun control...totally understandable. I understand people wanting to talk the 2nd amendment, and no I won't agree with this bill in its entirety when its done...but for hell sakes, let the guy have his say...unmolested...he's earned it.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

You're the one that posted the link, not him. What are you talking about?

Something you're clearly confused about.

 

[woolybug25]

Something you're clearly confused about.

Ok...sure... i'm not the one posting every weird article about bow and arrow violence in a thread about gun control measures, in some bizarre attempt to make a point not even understood by others on your side of the argument.

But I digress... i'll just go back to reading the meritable information posted by others on the board. Just wanted to point out that you were not helping your argument or coming off very well.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Ok...sure... i'm not the one posting every weird article about bow and arrow violence in a thread about gun control measures, in some bizarre attempt to make a point not even understood by others on your side of the argument.

But I digress... i'll just go back to reading the meritable information posted by others on the board. Just wanted to point out that you were not helping your argument or coming off very well.

It started off as a joke that Sully didn't understand. I wasn't trying to make any point. And EVERY WEIRD ARTICLE??? Serious? One article and now I'm posting a bunch of strange articles about bows. Some people just love to see their names in threads...

 

[IrishinTN]

This seems like he is suppportive of gun control...totally understandable. I understand people wanting to talk the 2nd amendment, and no I won't agree with this bill in its entirety when its done...but for hell sakes, let the guy have his say...unmolested...he's earned it.

One thing, though. He does say "I ask if there’s anybody in this room that can give me one reason or challenge this question: Why anybody in this room needs to have an, one of these assault-style weapons or military weapons or high-capacity clips…..Not one person can answer that question.”

So that does open it up to the room for comment. Perhaps that wasn't his intention, but the way it went, it seemed like he was asking the room for a reply, so someone did. I don't think it was out and out "heckling" for heckling sake.

 

[woolybug25]

It started off as a joke that Sully didn't understand. I wasn't trying to make any point. And EVERY WEIRD ARTICLE??? Serious? One article and now I'm posting a bunch of strange articles about bows. Some people just love to see their names in threads...

Sully and I both got that it was a joke. You aren't getting that we are both saying that you are making your side look bad with it and it didn't add anything constructive to the debate.

I haven't posted in this thread in months, so if you want to tell yourself that I only responded to you to "see my name in the thread", then go ahead if it makes you feel better about diluting the debate to such a low level. I was just trying to give you a heads up, thats all.

 

[phgreek]

One thing, though. He does say "I ask if there’s anybody in this room that can give me one reason or challenge this question: Why anybody in this room needs to have an, one of these assault-style weapons or military weapons or high-capacity clips…..Not one person can answer that question.”

So that does open it up to the room for comment. Perhaps that wasn't his intention, but the way it went, it seemed like he was asking the room for a reply, so someone did. I don't think it was out and out "heckling" for heckling sake.

good point...

I think my better judgement would have said ...its a rhetorical question, at least to him...so I'd let it be...but I wasn't there...and the video is oddly clipped if that is the case, because his likely rhetorical question was oddly left out.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

The "does anyone need one of these?" questions is a red herring. Freedom means deciding for yourself what you "need", and not the gov't.

Do you "need" a car that goes 150mph? No. Do you "need" 3/4 lbs of beef in a hamburger? No. In a free society it is enough that you like it, not that someone else has determined that you "need" it.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Sully and I both got that it was a joke. You aren't getting that we are both saying that you are making your side look bad with it and it didn't add anything constructive to the debate.

I haven't posted in this thread in months, so if you want to tell yourself that I only responded to you to "see my name in the thread", then go ahead if it makes you feel better about diluting the debate to such a low level. I was just trying to give you a heads up, thats all.

I wasn't trying to add to or dilute the debate. Is this thread immune to jokes? Did you read the article and see how ridiculous the comment about the bow sounded? As far as giving me a heads up... if that was your sole purpose wouldn't a PM have been more constructive instead of calling me out in a thread? But whatever makes you feel better...

 

[In Lou I Trust]

The "does anyone need one of these?" questions is a red herring. Freedom means deciding for yourself what you "need", and not the gov't.

Do you "need" a car that goes 150mph? No. Do you "need" 3/4 lbs of beef in a hamburger? No. In a free society it is enough that you like it, not that someone else has determined that you "need" it.

Agreed 100%! In today's society where materialism reigns king it makes me laugh to hear someone who makes more in one month than many make in one year talk about needs. Take your 20,000 square foot house and shove it up your @$$.

 

[DSully1995]

The "does anyone need one of these?" questions is a red herring. Freedom means deciding for yourself what you "need", and not the gov't.

Do you "need" a car that goes 150mph? No. Do you "need" 3/4 lbs of beef in a hamburger? No. In a free society it is enough that you like it, not that someone else has determined that you "need" it.

Of course liberty should end when it directly hurts others...

 

[DSully1995]

So you can say that it only takes common sense to realize that thousands don't die from bows each year but I need to present stats to make a similar statement?

Well i know thousands dont die from arrows. But were talking a spread from legal/illegal within firearm murders for which its a fact thousands die from every year

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Well i know thousands dont die from arrows. But were talking a spread from legal/illegal within firearm murders for which its a fact thousands die from every year

Do you truly believe that the majority of gun related homicides are attributed to mentally stable and legal gun owners?

 

[DSully1995]

Do you truly believe that the majority of gun related homicides are attributed to mentally stable and legal gun owners?

Its not about what i believe, you believe that the majority isnt, so this all stems back to me asking you for data, does any organization sort through legal/illegal firearm murders?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Its not about what i believe, you believe that the majority isnt, so this all stems back to me asking you for data, does any organization sort through legal/illegal firearm murders?

You're going to have to be more specific for the data you're looking for, and then perhaps be willing to pitch-in on the research you're requesting.

For starters, you'd have to clarify what an "illegal firearm murder" was. All murder is illegal, by definition. And not all firearms are illegal, but some individuals are prohibited from possessing otherwise legal firearms, period (e.g., felons). Being in possession of a stolen gun is a crime for anyone, but if it accidentally goes off and kills someone it's not necessarily "murder".

 

[phgreek]

oh just watch it, some guy is talking about his sons death and someone yell out from the crowd about the 2nd amendment got the link Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

just an FYI...I heard the entire clip on the radio while driving...I'd say it was clipped for political effect...he did call folks out by his tone...I probably would not have responded...

anyway, I know you just provided the clip...but its bad data.

 

[DSully1995]

You're going to have to be more specific for the data you're looking for, and then perhaps be willing to pitch-in on the research you're requesting.

For starters, you'd have to clarify what an "illegal firearm murder" was. All murder is illegal, by definition. And not all firearms are illegal, but some individuals are prohibited from possessing otherwise legal firearms, period (e.g., felons). Being in possession of a stolen gun is a crime for anyone, but if it accidentally goes off and kills someone it's not necessarily "murder".

Lou said that gun control would only hurt people with legal guns (i hear this argument alot) since the criminals "will get theirs anyway". I want to know if theres a way to see what percentage of murders or homicides are done with legally obtained weapons.
(obviously wont have full data but should be pretty close to real percentage)

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Lou said that gun control would only hurt people with legal guns (i hear this argument alot) since the criminals "will get theirs anyway". I want to know if theres a way to see what percentage of murders or homicides are done with legally obtained weapons.
(obviously wont have full data but should be pretty close to real percentage)

I think the argument is that if you're a criminal -- and thereby willing to break the law in the first place -- making gun possession illegal won't stop you from obtaining them out of your own volition. I mean, you're a criminal. Only people who follow the law will be willing to follow the new gun law.

So in your scenario, if you're looking to kill someone, you could do so today by obtaining a weapon legally. If all guns are later banned, you'd probably still be willing to get a gun illegally, since by hypothesis you're already willing to kill someone.

But this is a hypothetical scenario, so there won't be any data showing "Murders Prevented by Murderer not wanting to Break Yet Another Law."

That doesn't mean there wouldn't be less guns overall if they were banned, just that banning guns would overwhelmingly take them out of the hands of those that obey the law when stuff is banned.

 

[DSully1995]

I think the argument is that if you're a criminal -- and thereby willing to break the law in the first place -- making gun possession illegal won't stop you from obtaining them out of your own volition. I mean, you're a criminal. Only people who follow the law will be willing to follow the new gun law.

So in your scenario, if you're looking to kill someone, you could do so today by obtaining a weapon legally. If all guns are later banned, you'd probably still be willing to get a gun illegally, since by hypothesis you're already willing to kill someone.

But this is a hypothetical scenario, so there won't be any data showing "Murders Prevented by Murderer not wanting to Break Yet Another Law."

That doesn't mean there wouldn't be less guns overall if they were banned, just that banning guns would overwhelmingly take them out of the hands of those that obey the law when stuff is banned.

I get you, ill just drop it because itd be too hard to properly explain/ even find

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Its not about what i believe, you believe that the majority isnt, so this all stems back to me asking you for data, does any organization sort through legal/illegal firearm murders?

http://gunvictimsaction.org/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-illegal-gun-trafficking-arms-criminals-and-youth/

 

[JadeBrecks]

Id like to see the fact you are presenting, have you seen what percentage is legal gun what percentage is illegal?

Name a mass shooting and I will tell you what laws they broke. Also are you willing to support banning firearms without knowing this fact yourself?

One last thing. Something to think about for everyone who is for some gun control but aren't for complete disarmament of people, look at who you are hitching your wagon to. Are you hitching it to people like dianne feinstein? Are you going to support people who want to ban all guns when they are going after what you think is ok and turn around and fight them later? These people will not stop till they get what they want and a lot of them what all guns to be illegal. You may think this fight doesn't affect you but it does. When they are done picking on the "assault rifle" crowd they will set their sights on the pistol and shotgun crowd. Just some food for thought.

 

[JadeBrecks]

"According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -

a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%"