BK: Field Turf is Coming

[gmnysdad]

What that doesn't include is that all field turf games are away games. That might have some effect as well.

 

[condoms SUCk]

I heard practice field turf was installed in the Loftus Center, anyone else think that may be the same turf we'll see implemented in ND stadium?

 

[koonja]

I heard practice field turf was installed in the Loftus Center, anyone else think that may be the same turf we'll see implemented in ND stadium?

Nice bump!

This is from Eric Hanson yesterday, FWIW:

"Eric Hansen:
Glad to be back. The chats are fun for me. They also sometimes give me good ideas for stories. ... I spoke to ND athletic director Jack Swarbrick a few weeks ago. I am kind of surprised there as not been an announcement yet. If ND stays with natural grass, it will have to dig down deeper and get rid of the old root structure of the old sod, something they hadn't been doing. Whatever decision they make -- and I believe it will be FieldTurf --- they have to start that process the day after graduation in May to be ready for the fall. Swarbrick said "tradition" will not factor into the decision. It will be what's best for the program.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Nice bump!

This is from Eric Hanson yesterday, FWIW:

"Eric Hansen:
Glad to be back. The chats are fun for me. They also sometimes give me good ideas for stories. ... I spoke to ND athletic director Jack Swarbrick a few weeks ago. I am kind of surprised there as not been an announcement yet. If ND stays with natural grass, it will have to dig down deeper and get rid of the old root structure of the old sod, something they hadn't been doing. Whatever decision they make -- and I believe it will be FieldTurf --- they have to start that process the day after graduation in May to be ready for the fall. Swarbrick said "tradition" will not factor into the decision. It will be what's best for the program.

Finally. I'm not sure I really care, but speed kills and apparently everyone plays faster on turf. Couple that with the dismal shape our field has looked the past couple seasons and I'm all for the switch. ND will still be ND, because it's bigger than what it plays on. It's who and how they play on it that counts.

 

[wizards8507]

Finally. I'm not sure I really care, but speed kills and apparently everyone plays faster on turf. Couple that with the dismal shape our field has looked the past couple seasons and I'm all for the switch. ND will still be ND, because it's bigger than what it plays on. It's who and how they play on it that counts.

This argument kills me. "Turf makes you play faster so we're at a disadvantage by playing on natural grass!"

Spoiler alert: Playing on turf will make the other team faster, too.

 

[JughedJones]

It took me a while to come to terms with this, but I am 100% on board with FieldTurf.

The only traditions I really care about are academics, winning, and gold helmets. In that order.

 

[IrishLion]

This argument kills me. "Turf makes you play faster so we're at a disadvantage by playing on natural grass!"

Spoiler alert: Playing on turf will make the other team faster, too.

I think I've been over this with you before haha, but I'll toss my $0.02 in anyway:

I think a speed advantage is more pronounced when on turf. If ND is faster than Purdue on grass, their advantage will be even larger on turf.

I think grass is the great equalizer, especially in poor conditions.

 

[JughedJones]

IrishLion, I think you're exactly right.

We should be recruiting enough speed that if the other team has an advantage, we can scheme around it.

However, if we're playing on sloppy grass, that just makes our slowest opponents as fast as us and gives an out-manned team a punchers chance.

Screw that, let our horses run.

 

[wizards8507]

I think I've been over this with you before haha, but I'll toss my $0.02 in anyway:

I think a speed advantage is more pronounced when on turf. If ND is faster than Purdue on grass, their advantage will be even larger on turf.

I think grass is the great equalizer, especially in poor conditions.

That's kind of my point. We're not playing B1G bruisers anymore. We're playing Florida State, Miami, North Carolina, Clemson, etc. "Southern speed" is a very real thing. I think you're making a mistake that we'll always (or even a large majority of the time) be the faster team on the field.

 

[dshans]

I'll borrow an "Old School" line from A Boy Named Sue by Johnny Cash:
"Kickin' and a-gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer."

It strikes me as apropos to the history of Fightin' Irish football.

The old sod is the best sod ...

 

[ulukinatme]

That's kind of my point. We're not playing B1G bruisers anymore. We're playing Florida State, Miami, North Carolina, Clemson, etc. "Southern speed" is a very real thing. I think you're making a mistake that we'll always (or even a large majority of the time) be the faster team on the field.

At the same time, we're no longer like a B1G team ourselves. We've been slowly trying to pickup more speed. We're running a Spread offense...sort of. Games like Navy last year showed how our own field can put us at a disadvantage when we're not built for power. Some of our best weapons, like TJ, struggled to get footing. Thats not good, especially considering the offensive struggles we've had in recent years. Very few teams outside of the SEC and ACC use natural grass anymore. The facts have been posted before, the weather and climate just don't lend themselves to natural grass when better alternatives are out there. It's not like other options are just a fad, more and more teams are making the switch over time. It just makes sense. As our recruiting is getting better, theres no reason why we should neutralize our athletes against the Purdues of the world, we should give our guys every advantage we can.

 

[Fbolt]

Thx Lion, JJ, Wiz-I never really gave this much thought, but I can see the point of sloppy field conditions are an equalizer.

 

[ulukinatme]

I'll borrow an "Old School" line from A Boy Named Sue by Johnny Cash:
"Kickin' and a-gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer."

It strikes me as apropos to the history of Fightin' Irish football.

The old sod is the best sod ...

Rockne would have already put in Field Turf by now if he was still around.

If we were still a team running the Triple Option, I could see there being some benefits to keeping natural grass as the poor weather in Indiana could cause problems for the Florida State type teams we play. Given the fact we're a Spread team now and we want to utilize our speed against slower teams, it doesn't make sense to stick with a field surface that quickly deteriorates in bad weather.

All of Kelly's previous stops have either had some form of artificial turf already in place, or they have since moved to such a surface since his departure. I have a feeling it's coming.

 

[irishknight35]

Rockne would have already put in Field Turf by now if he was still around.

If we were still a team running the Triple Option, I could see there being some benefits to keeping natural grass as the poor weather in Indiana could cause problems for the Florida State type teams we play. Given the fact we're a Spread team now and we want to utilize our speed against slower teams, it doesn't make sense to stick with a field surface that quickly deteriorates in bad weather.

And wouldn't it be nice for the team to actually be able to practice a little more on the same surface they will be playing on when it matters. Can't do that now for fear of tearing up the field any more then it already is.

 

[ulukinatme]

And wouldn't it be nice for the team to actually be able to practice a little more on the same surface they will be playing on when it matters. Can't do that now for fear of tearing up the field any more then it already is.

Yeah, theres this fact too! The LaBar practice facility is comprised of mostly Field Turf already. They just replaced the artificial field in the Indoor facility as well. Why play on grass at all if we're going to practice on Field Turf? There should absolutely be consistency here.

Related note: The LaBar family season ticket holders are located directly behind our season tickets

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Yeah, theres this fact too! The LaBar practice facility is comprised of mostly Field Turf already. They just replaced the artificial field in the Indoor facility as well. Why play on grass at all if we're going to practice on Field Turf? There should absolutely be consistency here.

Related note: The LaBar family season ticket holders are located directly behind our season tickets

Great point.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

This argument kills me. "Turf makes you play faster so we're at a disadvantage by playing on natural grass!"

Spoiler alert: Playing on turf will make the other team faster, too.

Think a step further wizard. I'm saying that it appears we have a comparative advantage when speed is emphasized. Kelly has been recruiting speed and I'd put up Will Fuller and Chris Brown and Tarean Folston and Greg Bryant against any of our opponents. When traction is lost because the surface is mangled, that neutralizes speed and takes away one of our strengths. When you have a surface that emphasizes speed and remains intact, the faster team has an advantage, and it appears Kelly cares about speed.

 

[IrishBlood81]

Think a step further wizard. I'm saying that it appears we have a comparative advantage when speed is emphasized. Kelly has been recruiting speed and I'd put up Will Fuller and Chris Brown and Tarean Folston and Greg Bryant against any of our opponents. When traction is lost because the surface is mangled, that neutralizes speed and takes away one of our strengths. When you have a surface that emphasizes speed and remains intact, the faster team has an advantage, and it appears Kelly cares about speed.

I always agreed with Wizard and I never understood the point of this argument. Thanks for explaining guys, I now have a better understanding of it.
I wonder if some teams were happy that we played them at our home, so that advantage would be nullified, you know?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Wonder if our poorer relative performance at home would be neutralized by field turf?

Wonder if practicing half turf/half grass, with home games all grass causes O timing issues? I played just when turf was coming in, played one to two games a year on turf, and I was so slow. I don't remember it making much of a matter. (laughing quickly)

 

[ulukinatme]

Wonder if our poorer relative performance at home would be neutralized by field turf?

Wonder if practicing half turf/half grass, with home games all grass causes O timing issues? I played just when turf was coming in, played one to two games a year on turf, and I was so slow. I don't remember it making much of a matter. (laughing quickly)

I thought about this myself, but I decided to leave it out of the discussion. It's very possible though that the field could have had an impact on our offensive performance in 2012. We certainly struggled scoring points at home.

Actually....look at 2013 too! There were only two games where we scored 28 points or more: Navy and Temple. Neither team was a powerhouse or defensively stout, which could account for the better offensive production. We scored 28 points or more in 5 away games though, at least two of them coming against very good opponents. Maybe it's not a coincidence.

 

[wizards8507]

Think a step further wizard. I'm saying that it appears we have a comparative advantage when speed is emphasized. Kelly has been recruiting speed and I'd put up Will Fuller and Chris Brown and Tarean Folston and Greg Bryant against any of our opponents. When traction is lost because the surface is mangled, that neutralizes speed and takes away one of our strengths. When you have a surface that emphasizes speed and remains intact, the faster team has an advantage, and it appears Kelly cares about speed.

I 100% see your logic, but I've just never watched Notre Dame football and remarked to myself how much faster we are than the other guys. I'm also not convinced that grass has an "equalizing" effect that slows fast teams more than slower teams.

Regardless, I'm just repeating myself at this point so I'll bow out of the thread.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

 

[Irish#1]

Think a step further wizard. I'm saying that it appears we have a comparative advantage when speed is emphasized. Kelly has been recruiting speed and I'd put up Will Fuller and Chris Brown and Tarean Folston and Greg Bryant against any of our opponents. When traction is lost because the surface is mangled, that neutralizes speed and takes away one of our strengths. When you have a surface that emphasizes speed and remains intact, the faster team has an advantage, and it appears Kelly cares about speed.

If footing is sloppy, it's sloppy for everyone. The difference in speed between two teams is the same on either surface.

It's like playing the lottery. The odds stay the same just like the difference in speed stays the same. Just because a number hasn't been called, doesn't mean it has a better chance to be called than a number called in the previous game. The faster team will always be faster.

 

[adsnorri]

When defense doesn't have to cover an offensive player because he slips during his cuts or slows down slightly because of a poor surface it definitely gives the advantage to the defense. Hurts us even more if we're trying to run a hurry up and use a speed game.

 

[GATTACA!]

If footing is sloppy, it's sloppy for everyone. The difference in speed between two teams is the same on either surface.

It's like playing the lottery. The odds stay the same just like the difference in speed stays the same. Just because a number hasn't been called, doesn't mean it has a better chance to be called than a number called in the previous game. The faster team will always be faster.

Your argument is too abstract, it's not as simple as putting restrictor plates on the two teams. Sloppy turf has a greater effect on players with more speed. Faster players cut and stop and start more often than players that emphasize their strength. Cutting and quick stops make slipping far more likely than putting your head down and driving your legs.

Also if your argument is true and the surface effects both teams equally then it stands to reason that in a matchup of a speed team vs a power team the advantage goes to the power team. Even though the speeds are equally reduced the power teams advantage is unchanged. Doesn't make much sense if we are building our team around speed to placate to teams like MSU and Stanford.

 

[NCND]

Lol. I remember u "having a source" about turf being installed like 2yrs ago. Adsnorri that is.

 

[ThePiombino]

Your argument is too abstract, it's not as simple as putting restrictor plates on the two teams. Sloppy turf has a greater effect on players with more speed. Faster players cut and stop and start more often than players that emphasize their strength. Cutting and quick stops make slipping far more likely than putting your head down and driving your legs.

Also if your argument is true and the surface effects both teams equally then it stands to reason that in a matchup of a speed team vs a power team the advantage goes to the power team. Even though the speeds are equally reduced the power teams advantage is unchanged. Doesn't make much sense if we are building our team around speed to placate to teams like MSU and Stanford.

This right here makes a ton of sense.

 

[koonja]

I don't think current coaching style should play into the decision at all, personally. I'd be happy if BK was here for 3 more years, and this change is much bigger than that. I still think field turf is the right answer, but not because BK runs a spread.

 

[GATTACA!]

This right here makes a ton of sense.

 

[adsnorri]

Lol. I remember u "having a source" about turf being installed like 2yrs ago. Adsnorri that is.

Thanks for waiting 2 years to call out my miscall... haha

That info was actually from molnar himself. Not a bad source to publish info from. Not sure what happened but I think it is safe to say its been in discussion for a while.

 

[ulukinatme]

Your argument is too abstract, it's not as simple as putting restrictor plates on the two teams. Sloppy turf has a greater effect on players with more speed. Faster players cut and stop and start more often than players that emphasize their strength. Cutting and quick stops make slipping far more likely than putting your head down and driving your legs.

Also if your argument is true and the surface effects both teams equally then it stands to reason that in a matchup of a speed team vs a power team the advantage goes to the power team. Even though the speeds are equally reduced the power teams advantage is unchanged. Doesn't make much sense if we are building our team around speed to placate to teams like MSU and Stanford.

Well said. For those that point out both sides are affected by grass, thats fine if we consistently are the team with less athletes and less speed on the field. However, that's the not case, as we probably only play 1-3 teams each year that may have better athletes than we should have (USC, FSU this coming year, maybe Michigan). We should have a leg up on everyone else, and when our guys like TJ are slipping on our field that takes a weapon away from us. The other team may or may not have a weapon like TJ on their roster, hence it provides an advantage for them.

Something else to consider are the big guys in the trenches. If you've ever been a lineman trying to block a guy in the mud, you know that it's very tough to drive a guy when your cleats are sliding. We have this great OL shaping up under Heistand right now, but if the field is crappy it won't make a lick of difference. Poor field conditions don't affect a DL charging ahead as much as an OL trying to get footing and drive a big guy to make a hole.