One Player You Wish You Could've Seen in His Prime

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Bogtrotter07

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It is my fondest hope, bogtrotter07, that your sorry ass is buried in an anonymous, unmarked grave. And that you will call from that grave, make straight the way of a drunken irishman, and his feeble efforts to say something of consequence.

Whatever you are trying to say, (with the absence of italics), if that is your fondest hope, I really feel bad for you! You must live the most boring and unremarkable life ever!

You have my thoughts and prayers!

Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Take that, Hitler, you suminabeech!

Great one! I think there is actually outtakes from the propaganda film that actually show the look on his face when Jesse sunk his master race! Not as good as being there but satisfying none the less!
 
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rtrn2glory

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I know---I was just making a funny. But that film is actually incredible considering it was made in the 1930's. Spectacular visuals.

i'll have to check it out some time

surprised though with the recent films on jackie robinson, ernie davis, texas western, just to name a few that something on jesse owens hasn't took off
 

GoIrish41

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Wow so many
Thrilla in Manilla
Shot hear round the world
Ruth's called shot
Maris' 61st shot
ND's many games of the century
Win one for the gipper game
Clemens 20 strikeout game
Among many

To add a few:

Immaculate reception
"The Catch"
Bo Jackson's Monday night breakout
Tyson crushing Spinx
Chamberlain's 100-point-game
Miracle on Ice
Carrie Strugg (sp?) final vault to secure Olympic victory for USA Gymnastics
Jesse Owens winning gold in front of Hitler
Clemente's 3000th hit

there are far too many to name them all
 

ACamp1900

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If I could see one major event in sports history it'd be the Merkle Boner game.... Even the shot heard round the world has video... So you can see something... The Merkle game is nothing but legend now...

The 1920 Rose Bowl (think that was the year) with Layden lighting it up would be up there too..
 
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Cackalacky

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Can't really top the Owens in 1936. The Thrilla in Manilla would have been great.
 

Bishop2b5

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NFL - Don Hutson
NBA - Bill Russell
MLB - Ty Cobb
Boxing - Marciano
 

Bishop2b5

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Can't really top the Owens in 1936. The Thrilla in Manilla would have been great.

I'm a huge boxing fan and I've never seen a better fight. Somebody once said they should put a film of that fight in a vault and open it 1000 years from now and say, "This was boxing!" I agree. I have a copy of it on my laptop and watch it from time to time. Amazing fight. They both damn near killed each other. Just pure guts kept them on their feet.
 

Irish#1

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I'm a huge boxing fan and I've never seen a better fight. Somebody once said they should put a film of that fight in a vault and open it 1000 years from now and say, "This was boxing!" I agree. I have a copy of it on my laptop and watch it from time to time. Amazing fight. They both damn near killed each other. Just pure guts kept them on their feet.

Did you watch the first Frazier/Ali fight? I thought it was better. In the Thrilla in Manila, Ali used a lot of the rope a dope technique with Foreman. It was considered a masterpiece of work by Ali. But if you want a true slug fest watch the first Frazier/Ali fight. The first Ali/Norton fight was a great slug fest as well.
 
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Irish#1

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Crispus Attucks HS, segregation. Was a big deal when he took that team to a state title from what I've read/heard. Would have been really nice to see him play.

While his brother Bailey wasn't as great a player as the Big O, he was better than average and as a tandem they rewrote the record books.
 

ND NYC

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someone mentioned it earlier in the thread:
wonder what some of the "old timers" hoops stats would be had there been a 3 point line "back in the day".
 
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Bogtrotter07

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someone mentioned it earlier in the thread:
wonder what some of the "old timers" hoops stats would be had there been a 3 point line "back in the day".

Not only would it have helped Pistol Pete, but think about guys like Jerry West and Earl Monroe.
 

dshans

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... and Earl Monroe.

Funny that you should mention Earl the Pearl.

I brought a kitten back to my off campus house from FL to SB after Christmas break my junior year. I named it Earl after the landlord, an interesting character – more stories to be saved for a later date. Come spring the cat headed out the back door to "cat around." It developed a quick relationship with a neighboring cat.

Well, it turned out that Earl was not an Earl. After a while it became quite clear that Earl was a Pearl. The transition in the name was as smooth as Monroe was on the court.

Why I didn't take a closer look or or take "precautions" is a mystery.
 

Bishop2b5

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Did you watch the first Frazier/Ali fight? I thought it was better. In the Thrilla in Manila, Ali used a lot of the rope a dope technique with Foreman. It was considered a masterpiece of work by Ali. But if you want a true slug fest watch the first Frazier/Ali fight. The first Ali/Norton fight was a great slug fest as well.

The Thrilla In Manilla was Ali/Frazier III, not the Foreman fight, which was the Rumble In The Jungle. Or did you mean Ali used a lot of the same rope-a-dope strategy in the Thrilla as he did in the Foreman fight?

I liked the first Ali/Frazier fight too. They did some serious pounding on each other. The third fight was just brutal though. Every time I watch it, I can't see how either of them kept going and didn't die afterwards. Ali said he felt like he had died, and Frazier's manager stopped it before the 15th round because he was afraid Joe was going to be permanently injured or killed if he went back for another round. Brutal fight.

Yeah, Ali/Norton I was a slugfest! That's the one where Ali fought most of the fight with a broken jaw, isn't it?
 

IrishLax

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It is my fondest hope, bogtrotter07, that your sorry ass is buried in an anonymous, unmarked grave. And that you will call from that grave, make straight the way of a drunken irishman, and his feeble efforts to say something of consequence.

Sorry to dredge up something old...

Is there backstory to this post? Taken at face value, this is wildly inappropriate. Was just looking through connect the dots post history and came across this. Has me scratching my head.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Sorry to dredge up something old...

Is there backstory to this post? Taken at face value, this is wildly inappropriate. Was just looking through connect the dots post history and came across this. Has me scratching my head.

I cannot think of a reason for your post either. And it is a typical "but" statement. Sorry to dredge this up, but I am looking to . . . You fill in the blank.

I think this is something that would best be handled by a PM. If you saw this post originally, several members questioned this post before I even saw it. There was never a response. It was forgotten that was a bad winter ago.
 

ulukinatme

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Tyson , an entertaining boxer with a huge punch but against Ali, please. He was dismantled by a journeyman boxer with a good performance and a fine jab , namely Buster Douglas. He was handled by Holyfield who needed everything he had to beat a 40+ year old George Foreman. Tyson didn't even want the fight with an AGED Foreman. Ali knocked out the TWO most unbeatable heavy hitters in the 20th century , Sonny Liston in 62 & George Foreman in 74ish, he did that with a three year layoff and almost 13 years apart. The idea that Tyson, who ran out of gas after 6 rounds could have dealt with Ali is IMO fanciful.

Speaking of Ali...another boxer who missed three years in his prime due to his refusal to serve the US military. Tyson would have knocked him the F out though.

I don't know about that. If Tyson caught him early with a BIG one then maybe. Goes over 6 rounds advantage Ali. Either one can deliver a hit but Ali proved he could take one, and stand...then win.

Damn it I didn't want to get involved in this debate. I knew better and I did it anyways. Ali is for sure a better boxer but after seeing a 20 year old Tyson landing those uppercuts I have a hard time believing any man has the chin to hold up to that. If it went 6 rounds Ali wins for sure, if it goes 3 rounds Ali almost certainly wins. But it's that first couple rounds where I'm taking Iron Mike.

I gotta say no way to Tyson over Ali. I'm not saying it's impossible, but 9 times out of 10 Ali wins that fight. Having watched Tyson in his prime, and watching/reading a bit about Ali during his prime, I have to go with Ali winning more times than not. Ali danced with some of the best during his time and came out on top more often than not, he fought in the Golden Age of Heavyweights. They called him "The Greatest" for a reason. He also faced many opponents with big punches, certainly none with the power and speed of Tyson, but Ali wasn't exactly slow himself.

Both boxers have a common history: they were both removed from boxing in their prime. Ali was of course barred from boxing for evading the draft, while Tyson was in jail. Neither fighter lost a match before their break (Aside from that one Buster Douglas match for Tyson), and both saw their careers deteriorate quickly at the end (Each lost 3 of their last 4 fights if I recall). However, that's generally where the similarities end. Ali was a finesse fighter with a long jab that could whittle away opponents and survive for long rounds. Tyson was a fighter with rather short arms in comparison. Having that reach is a nice advantage. Ali had a 9 inch advantage over Tyson, and for a guy that's well versed at keeping opponents at a distance, those 9 inches would make it much tougher for Tyson to land punches to Ali's chin. Sure, Tyson is going to get inside from time to time, but you have to figure that Ali knew his opponents pretty well and how to break them down. He's not going to try and slug it out with Iron Mike, he's going to keep his distance at all times and whittle him away with jabs while Tyson gases himself.

I give credit to Tyson. The man was absolutely devastating, especially in early rounds. Sometimes he just needed a few nasty uppercuts to knock an opponent to the canvas. Will Smith rapped about him, his presence in the ring was absolutely intimidating before the match even started, hell, one of my favorite video games of all time was named after Tyson. Theres always the chance that Tyson finds a way to land a few bombs on Ali that end the fight. For that reason alone, Tyson in his prime always had a puncher's chance against Ali on any given night. Then again, in his entire career Ali was never KO'd, take that into account. It's worth reading this excerpt from Ali's Wiki too....read it and then contemplate how a guy like Tyson who charges ahead would have struggled with Ali:

One of Ali's greatest tricks was to make opponents over commit by pulling straight backward from punches. Disciplined, world-class boxers chased Ali and threw themselves off balance attempting to hit him because he seemed to be an open target, only missing and leaving themselves exposed to Ali's counter punches, usually a chopping right.[99] Slow motion replays show that this was precisely the way Sonny Liston was hit and apparently knocked out by Ali in their second fight.[100] Ali often flaunted his movement and dancing with the "Ali Shuffle," a sort of center ring jig.[101] Ali's early style was so unusual that he was initially discounted because he reminded boxing writers of a lightweight, and it was assumed he would be vulnerable to big hitters like Sonny Liston.

Ali probably had the fastest hand and foot speed ever seen in a big fighter. Using a synchronizer, Jimmy Jacobs, who co-managed Mike Tyson, measured young Ali's punching speed versus Sugar Ray Robinson, a welter/middleweight, often considered the best pound-for-pound fighter in history. Ali was 25% faster than Robinson, even though Ali was 45–50 pounds heavier.

"No matter what his opponents heard about him, they didn't realize how fast he was until they got in the ring with him," Jacobs said.

The effect of Ali's punches was cumulative. "Ali would rub you out," said Floyd Patterson. "He would hit you 14,000 times and he wouldn't knock you out, he rubbed you out."

Charlie Powell, who fought Ali early in Ali's career and was knocked out in the third round, said: "When he first hit me I said to myself, 'I can take two of these to get one in myself.' But in a little while I found myself getting dizzier and dizzier every time he hit me. He throws punches so easily that you don't realize how much they hurt you until it's too late."[103]

Commenting on fighting Ali in his prime, George Chuvalo said: "He was just so damn fast. When he was young, he moved his legs and hands at the same time. He threw his punches when he was in motion. He'd be out of punching range, and as he moved into range he'd already begun to throw the punch. So if you waited until he got into range to punch back, he beat you every time."[46]

Floyd Patterson said, "It's very hard to hit a moving target, and (Ali) moved all the time, with such grace, three minutes of every round for fifteen rounds. He never stopped. It was extraordinary.
 

ulukinatme

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I wish I remembered Quinn and Shark better. I was like 10 when they were seniors at ND. I remember Clausen well enough so I'd like to compare them. My dad thinks Clausen as a Junior was better than Quinn's Jr or Senior years.

rtrn2glory said:
As much as I love Brady Quinn....i can't disagree with that.

I'm going to dispute this one too. While Clausen was no slouch, if the game is on the line, I want Brady in there. Neither QB had the benefit of great defense, or great offensive lines, or a superb running game, but both had some pretty good skill position players. Clausen had Rudolph/Carlson/Tate/Floyd to throw to, while Brady had Samardzija/Stovall/McKnight/Fasano. I'd say Clausen probably had the edge as far as better targets to throw to, but for the sake of argument we'll call them even. Nevertheless, I think Brady played against better competition and he willed the team to victory in a number of comebacks (Stanford in '05, and in '06 against UCLA and MSU). When the game was on the line, Clausen did pull out a few late wins against MSU, Purdue, and Washington (Whoo hoo, impressive) in '09, but also couldn't capitalize against USC, Navy, Pitt, Stanford, and Connecticut. Let that sink in.

I think you really have to look at each player's performance against similar opponents. Both QBs never won a game against USC, however I give the edge to Brady. Why? Brady's performance against the '05 Trojan team was much more impressive than Clausen's failed comeback bid against the '09 Trojans. The '05 Trojan team was much more impressive than the '09 team. Brady helped the Irish take the lead 3 different times in that '05 game, scoring the go ahead TD himself shortly after Weis told him "The great ones find a way to win" (I'm paraphrasing here). Clausen never lead in a game against USC at any time in his career.

As far as non-USC opponents go, Clausen struggled and in '09 he lost against Navy (1-2 in his career against them, nearly 0-3), Pitt, Michigan, and friggin' Connecticut. Clausen had a losing record for his career against all those teams, he also lost to Syracuse the previous year. Michigan State and Boston College were two other teams Clausen had losing records against, but he did beat them in '09. Brady had winning records against all those teams for his career, or he at least went .500. I would say Brady came much closer to winning a BCS bowl too, since Clausen never even made it to anything bigger than the Hawaii bowl.

I could go on, but I don't have the time unfortunately. Both were certainly great QBs, but Clausen didn't put the team on his back like Brady did imo. I don't think Clausen was the same kind of leader that Quinn was. Some may argue that Brady's defense was slightly better, but to be honest they were both pretty bad. Clausen's legacy is a 7-6 Sophomore campaign that ended with the Hawaii bowl. Brady went 9-3 and 10-3, with a good number of memorable wins against decent opponents, and unfortunately a few losses in BCS games. I'll take Brady every time.
 
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Irish#1

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I gotta say no way to Tyson over Ali. I'm not saying it's impossible, but 9 times out of 10 Ali wins that fight. Having watched Tyson in his prime, and watching/reading a bit about Ali during his prime, I have to go with Ali winning more times than not. Ali danced with some of the best during his time and came out on top more often than not, he fought in the Golden Age of Heavyweights. They called him "The Greatest" for a reason. He also faced many opponents with big punches, certainly none with the power and speed of Tyson, but Ali wasn't exactly slow himself.

Both boxers have a common history: they were both removed from boxing in their prime. Ali was of course barred from boxing for evading the draft, while Tyson was in jail. Neither fighter lost a match before their break (Aside from that one Buster Douglas match for Tyson), and both saw their careers deteriorate quickly at the end (Each lost 3 of their last 4 fights if I recall). However, that's generally where the similarities end. Ali was a finesse fighter with a long jab that could whittle away opponents and survive for long rounds. Tyson was a fighter with rather short arms in comparison. Having that reach is a nice advantage. Ali had a 9 inch advantage over Tyson, and for a guy that's well versed at keeping opponents at a distance, those 9 inches would make it much tougher for Tyson to land punches to Ali's chin. Sure, Tyson is going to get inside from time to time, but you have to figure that Ali knew his opponents pretty well and how to break them down. He's not going to try and slug it out with Iron Mike, he's going to keep his distance at all times and whittle him away with jabs while Tyson gases himself.

I give credit to Tyson. The man was absolutely devastating, especially in early rounds. Sometimes he just needed a few nasty uppercuts to knock an opponent to the canvas. Will Smith rapped about him, his presence in the ring was absolutely intimidating before the match even started, hell, one of my favorite video games of all time was named after Tyson. Theres always the chance that Tyson finds a way to land a few bombs on Ali that end the fight. For that reason alone, Tyson in his prime always had a puncher's chance against Ali on any given night. Then again, in his entire career Ali was never KO'd, take that into account. It's worth reading this excerpt from Ali's Wiki too....read it and then contemplate how a guy like Tyson who charges ahead would have struggled with Ali:

I've been lucky enough to see Ali in his prime and Tyson as well. Tyson was one dimensional, nothing but power. He would have had an extremely hard time getting close enough to Ali to hit him with any force to do any impact. While certainly bigger, Foreman was known for his power, but everyone knows about the rope a dope. Frazier was probably considered the baddest hitter from a power perspective during Ali's prime. He beat Ali once. Most considered the decision shocking and thought Ali had won. Frazier's face said loser all over it after the fight. Frazier was also a little lighter on his feet then Tyson. I would love to have seen Ali and Tyson in their primes go at each other.
 
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