Charlie Weis - Bitter?

[fitz_bu47]

I don't think it's fair to say he hasn't learned anything. If you have been following KU closely and that's your opinion, fine. If you are basing it on their win/loss record it's not fair and I disagree.

Everybody remembers the Mendoza debacle, and the first thing Charlie did was hire a great strength guy. Noticeable changes in the players physically almost immediately. Turner Gill had an awful strength coach and it showed. I also think Charlie has dialed back the bravado he had at ND a lot! I've gotten to see him up close a lot lately, and I think Charlie and I are destined to be pals or mortal enemies, since he has now been w/ ND, the Chiefs, and KU.

Anyway, think what you want about him, just my opinion seeing him "up close". I also think a big part of this move is Ianello not coaching the wr's...they have been atrocious the last couple years. Which obviously isn't all on him, there is a pretty severe lack of talent at that position. I think this goes w/ bringing in a new OC too, there were needed changes on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I don't think it's fair to say he hasn't learned anything. If you have been following KU closely and that's your opinion, fine. If you are basing it on their win/loss record it's not fair and I disagree.

Everybody remembers the Mendoza debacle, and the first thing Charlie did was hire a great strength guy. Noticeable changes in the players physically almost immediately. Turner Gill had an awful strength coach and it showed. I also think Charlie has dialed back the bravado he had at ND a lot! I've gotten to see him up close a lot lately, and I think Charlie and I are destined to be pals or mortal enemies, since he has now been w/ ND, the Chiefs, and KU.

Anyway, think what you want about him, just my opinion seeing him "up close". I also think a big part of this move is Ianello not coaching the wr's...they have been atrocious the last couple years. Which obviously isn't all on him, there is a pretty severe lack of talent at that position. I think this goes w/ bringing in a new OC too, there were needed changes on the offensive side of the ball.

Good post. Very true. KU is better than they were with Gill. Stronger and smarter. But (a) that's not saying much, (b) they are still low on talent, and (c) the QB transfers (Crist and Heaps) haven't developed like we'd hoped. Running game has been very good, but the passing game has been pretty awful.

The trajectory is a very small arc up. Needs to get better to compete in the Big XII.

 

[GowerND11]

Good post. Very true. KU is better than they were with Gill. Stronger and smarter. But (a) that's not saying much, (b) they are still low on talent, and (c) the QB transfers (Crist and Heaps) haven't developed like we'd hoped. Running game has been very good, but the passing game has been pretty awful.

The trajectory is a very small arc up. Needs to get better to compete in the Big XII.

With a young mobile QB could that potentially result in a better passing game? IE, he could maybe open the field up which will offset, not entirely of course, the lack of talent?

 

[Luckylucci]

Good post. Very true. KU is better than they were with Gill. Stronger and smarter. But (a) that's not saying much, (b) they are still low on talent, and (c) the QB transfers (Crist and Heaps) haven't developed like we'd hoped. Running game has been very good, but the passing game has been pretty awful.

The trajectory is a very small arc up. Needs to get better to compete in the Big XII.

No offense guys but your talking about the difference between the two coaches and the fact is in two years Gill won 5 games and Charlie's won 4. You guys can have opinions on what the team looks like but the facts don't support it. Not sure I'm buying this turnaround. We're talking about the same coach thats recruiting pitch is "you see that crap out there? Come play for me right away because your better than that crap." He's become a joke of a coach.

 

[GowerND11]

No offense guys but your talking about the difference between the two coaches and the fact is in two years Gill won 5 games and Charlie's won 4. You guys can have opinions on what the team looks like but the facts don't support it. Not sure I'm buying this turnaround. We're talking about the same coach thats recruiting pitch is "you see that crap out there? Come play for me right away because your better than that crap." He's become a joke of a coach.

You can't simply base things off of W/L's. I'm no expert on KU, but you have to look at the product on the field. Is there improvement? Just because there are less wins, what about SOS? What about what Weis inherited thanks to Gill? Is the cupboard bare? Have there been a lot of injuries? Transfers? I think Weis is a brash guy, but I completely understand the reasoning for that recruiting tactic. Come play right away, we have plenty of open positions and competitions due to our lack of talent and depth. There's more to consider than just Win Total.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

No offense guys but your talking about the difference between the two coaches and the fact is in two years Gill won 5 games and Charlie's won 4. You guys can have opinions on what the team looks like but the facts don't support it. Not sure I'm buying this turnaround. We're talking about the same coach thats recruiting pitch is "you see that crap out there? Come play for me right away because your better than that crap." He's become a joke of a coach.

No offense taken. But if you haven't been watching, you don't know what you're talking about. Gill's teams were scary bad and the inmates were running the asylum. As I said, the product has been a very small arc up.

 

[Luckylucci]

No offense taken. But if you haven't been watching, you don't know what you're talking about. Gill's teams were scary bad and the inmates were running the asylum. As I said, the product has been a very small arc up.

So its an opinion thats not supported by facts at this time. I really could give two shits about Kansas but its a very similar argument to the Kelly haters that say they see no difference in his teams versus prior regimes. The facts are the facts. Kelly has a very good winning percentage since at ND. Unless there are some facts that I'm missing, which could be the case.

 

[eNDzone]

Pete Roussel posted this on 247 today:



Weird, right? Is the situation that he really wants and needs someone to focus on off-field recruiting stuff, but he can't afford to hire another staffer? I guess I normally don't think of the coaching staff as an area where you want to skimp. Maybe just shows how important a professional recruiting staff, distinct from the coaching staff, is in today's college football.

Maybe Charlie should use some of that money he got for not coaching at ND and pay for the coaching staff himself.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

So its an opinion thats not supported by facts at this time. I really could give two shits about Kansas but its a very similar argument to the Kelly haters that say they see no difference in his teams versus prior regimes. The facts are the facts. Kelly has a very good winning percentage since at ND. Unless there are some facts that I'm missing, which could be the case.

You're looking at a single fact, which is winning percentage. It's obviously a very important one...the most important one. But, all in all, the program at KU is in better shape than it was with Gill. I think that it's rather obvious to those who have been watching during the Mangino, Gill, and Weis years.

I personally don't think Charlie is going to turn the program around and that KU will have sustained success with him. You just aren't taking into account where things were with Gill.

 

[BGIF]

Pete Roussel posted this on 247 today:

Kansas Kansas wide receivers coach / recruiting coordinator Rob Ianello will move off the field and now serve as the director of research, focusing on recruiting. Charlie Weis will coach the wide receivers. Running backs coach Reggie Mitchell adds the title of recruiting coordinator. In addition, Bruce Feldman reports that Weis is trying to hire a wide receivers coach for very little pay, a grad assistant type of guy or coach that is unemployed but receiving compensation through 2014 from his previous job.

Weird, right? Is the situation that he really wants and needs someone to focus on off-field recruiting stuff, but he can't afford to hire another staffer? I guess I normally don't think of the coaching staff as an area where you want to skimp. Maybe just shows how important a professional recruiting staff, distinct from the coaching staff, is in today's college football.

Wierd is an understatement.

This is a guy who Lemming listed is one of the Top 10 recruiters of the past 30 years. He started as a GA at Bama. Was RC at Arizona, then hired by Wisconsin, then lured to ND by Weis. He was successful both as a RC and as a WR coach. Kamara set ND freshman records which were broken by other WRs coached by Ianello including guys like record setting guys like Stovall, McKnight, Samardzija, Tate, and Floyd.

Now suddenly he can't coach WRs or TEs because KU's struggles as a team?

Ianello didn't bring in Crist and Heaps. Those were guys Weis recruited at ND and one Weis coached at ND.

Relegating Ianello to a non coaching job means he can't go on the road to recruit. IF Weis wants him to watch film, he does that already.

Does Ianello have a health issue or family situation that requires to be home more? That would make some sense.

 

[fitz_bu47]

Good point BGIF...there seems to have to be something else going on.

To LuckyLucci, Irish Jayhawk is right. I understand your point, the improvement has not shown up in wins yet, so it doesn't matter yet. Here's the thing, Charlie's teams are competing, and actually have had a lot of close games w/ a chance to win in the Big 12 conference. Gill's last year was the most depressing turd of a football team I have ever watched. They gave me no hope as a fan. I have always been a 4-5 year minimum for a coach guy, Turner Gill was the exception, he had to go.

So Charlie walked into that mess, and then kicked off about 20 guys who couldn't pass classes or drug tests. Many of whom were starters.

I don't know if he will eventually get it done, but it is hard to grasp how far of a hole he was in, if you didn't see it first hand.

 

[Rizzophil]

I bet Charlie wishes he had a training table with all of the food that Brian Kelly negotiated

 

[BGIF]

I bet Charlie wishes he had a training table with all of the food that Brian Kelly negotiated

Charlie Weis lobbied for it as did Leahy, Parshegian, Holtz, Davie. Both Hesburgh and Malloy were admantanly opposed to itas they want the athletes integrated into all aspects of student life. I suspect Swarbrick was the difference maker, along with Jenkins.

 

[Crazy Balki]

When I saw this page get bumped, I assumed either Weis got fired, or that he accidentally ate the Donut King mascot. I can't believe how off I was.

 

[Irish#1]

Pete Roussel posted this on 247 today:



Weird, right? Is the situation that he really wants and needs someone to focus on off-field recruiting stuff, but he can't afford to hire another staffer? I guess I normally don't think of the coaching staff as an area where you want to skimp. Maybe just shows how important a professional recruiting staff, distinct from the coaching staff, is in today's college football.

Sounds to me like he doesn't have the support of the administration to support the program like it needs to be. Which would support the fact that except for a very brief sniff at success a few years back, KU football has been as low as you can go forever.

 

[BGIF]

Sounds to me like he doesn't have the support of the administration to support the program like it needs to be. Which would support the fact that except for a very brief sniff at success a few years back, KU football has been as low as you can go forever.

I'll have you know KU's had 4 double digit win seasons, 1899, 1905, 1995, and 2007. They're trending up for the long haul.

On the short haul they've had 39 losses in 4 seasons.

 

[Irish#1]

I'll have you know KU's had 4 double digit win seasons, 1899, 1905, 1995, and 2007. They're trending up for the long haul.

On the short haul they've had 39 losses in 4 seasons.

Slow and steady growth, just like the stock market!

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I'll have you know KU's had 4 double digit win seasons, 1899, 1905, 1995, and 2007. They're trending up for the long haul.

On the short haul they've had 39 losses in 4 seasons.

Yeah...we're not very good.

 

[Rocket89]

You're looking at a single fact, which is winning percentage. It's obviously a very important one...the most important one. But, all in all, the program at KU is in better shape than it was with Gill. I think that it's rather obvious to those who have been watching during the Mangino, Gill, and Weis years.

I personally don't think Charlie is going to turn the program around and that KU will have sustained success with him. You just aren't taking into account where things were with Gill.

20+ point losses

Gill: 11
Weis: 11

Point Differential

Gill: -465
Weis: -422

Points Per Game

Gill: 19.7
Weis: 16.7

Defensive Points Per Game

Gill: 39.0
Weis: 33.9

Weis may have a very, very small edge but I don't think it's obvious.

You could easily make the case that Gill played a much tougher schedule. He had Georgia Tech and a decent Southern Miss team in 2010 in addition to playing both Nebraska and Texas A&M in conference. In 2011, Gill played Ga Tech again and an 11-win Northern Illinois team out of conference with a road game at A&M.

Weis has to deal with TCU in the league now and NIU again in 2012, but no Nebraska or A&M anymore. This past year the OOC slate was very easy too.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

20+ point losses

Gill: 11
Weis: 11

Point Differential

Gill: -465
Weis: -422

Points Per Game

Gill: 19.7
Weis: 16.7

Defensive Points Per Game

Gill: 39.0
Weis: 33.9

Weis may have a very, very small edge but I don't think it's obvious.

You could easily make the case that Gill played a much tougher schedule. He had Georgia Tech and a decent Southern Miss team in 2010 in addition to playing both Nebraska and Texas A&M in conference. In 2011, Gill played Ga Tech again and an 11-win Northern Illinois team out of conference with a road game at A&M.

Weis has to deal with TCU in the league now and NIU again in 2012, but no Nebraska or A&M anymore. This past year the OOC slate was very easy too.

You took Gill's two years as a whole. Look at the regression between his first and second years. It was devolving very very quickly and players appeared to be regressing. That team gave up 40 points 8 times and gave up 59 points or more 4 times. Defensive players didn't just look like they were less talented, they looked lost. Add to it the off the field team discipline issues and the fact that team GPA went up by about .25 after Charlie arrived.

Again, it's still a bad team. But it's hard to explain just how non-competitive they were for the last chunk of Gill's tenure. As I have said...a "small arc up."

 

[phgreek]

Slow and steady growth, just like the stock market!

Bubble alert...

 

[irishfan]

4-8 would be a step in the right direction this year. Hopefully to a bowl game by year 4 or 5

 

[fitz_bu47]

4-8 would be a step in the right direction this year. Hopefully to a bowl game by year 4 or 5

This.

Not looking for monumental moves.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Bubble alert...

The bubble was '07.

 

[BGIF]

You took Gill's two years as a whole. Look at the regression between his first and second years. It was devolving very very quickly and players appeared to be regressing. That team gave up 40 points 8 times and gave up 59 points or more 4 times. Defensive players didn't just look like they were less talented, they looked lost. Add to it the off the field team discipline issues and the fact that team GPA went up by about .25 after Charlie arrived.

Again, it's still a bad team. But it's hard to explain just how non-competitive they were for the last chunk of Gill's tenure. As I have said...a "small arc up."

Schematic class scheduling advantage?


Was it Charlie or simply the KU administrators tossing out the 0.0 GPAs? Weren't there a bunch of players that left the program/school?

 

[BGIF]

From footballscoop.com

From footballscoop.com

Kansas:*Charlie Weis has announced the hiring of Bernie Parmalee as special teams quality control. Parmalee is the father of current Jayhawks wide receiver Tre' Parmalee and worked previously under Weis at Notre Dame and with the Kansas City Chiefs.*


"Quality control"

 

[dshans]

"Quality control"

USDA Prime Beef???

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Schematic class scheduling advantage?


Was it Charlie or simply the KU administrators tossing out the 0.0 GPAs? Weren't there a bunch of players that left the program/school?

Probably some of both, but he was very up front to his players that he was going to be another academic advisor. And I was wrong...GPA went from 2.4 to 3.0.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/s...cky-first-football-season-at-kansas.html?_r=0

“There’s every grade of every kid in every class, as of Friday of last week. I go over it, and then what I do is, if there’s an immediate problem, I handle it myself.”

If an academic problem is not quite as pressing, Weis said, he tells an assistant to inform the player’s parents.

“I make them go to class,” Weis said. “I make them use academic support, and I have zero tolerance. So if they miss a class, they’re going to be working out with their strength coach at 6 o’clock in the morning — for a week.”

Weis paused for emphasis, then said, “And it’s miserable.”

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Keep gettin dem checks RT <a href="https://twitter.com/YahooDrSaturday">@YahooDrSaturday</a>: Charlie Weis made more money in 2012 from Notre Dame than Brian Kelly did <a href="http://t.co/F9csm3L1SD">http://t.co/F9csm3L1SD</a></p>— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) <a href="https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/statuses/469217386189848576">May 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I can't believe how much we threw at him in that extension. Hard to believe Kelly hasn't earned that kind of money yet.

 

[irishfan]

Falling asleep in team meetings?!

LSU freshman Fournette wins Heisman, other bold predictions for 2014 | FOX Sports

5. Weis gets first axe
Charlie Weis will be the first head coach from a Power 5 conference to be fired this year. After going 1-17 in Big 12 play in his first two years at Kansas, the 58-year-old comes into this season already on thin ice. Won't help that his team lost its top two running backs to season-ending injuries or that word is he's falling asleep in team meetings.