NFL prospect Michael Sam comes out as gay

[NDBoiler]

This quote is another factor in what is a complicated issue. Some may be offended if he is offered/asked to use separate facilities. Some may be offended if he is NOT given this choice. Some may be offended by his presence, considering ideas of human sexuality and attraction. It's a cluster, but one that needed to be addressed sooner or later. This is going to be an interesting time for the league.

Thats what i was getting at, thanks.

 

[irishfanjho15]

Jerome is a Christian. There are many many Christians in the nfl. They won't bully him , they will just not accept what is clearly wrong.

This is what cracks me up. Imagine that, a Christian not accepting someone and having the belief that they know the difference between "right" and "wrong" for everyone else.

 

[nsideirish]

Reading through a lot of these posts is evidence that we still have a long way to go as a country. Yikes.

 

[nsideirish]

Relying on Biblical text to support your views on what our government should be doing shows not only a clear lack of understanding of how our government works but also a very selective view of which Biblical texts you consider important.

For instance, if you believe the we should not allow gay marriage because it is outlaws in the Bible, would you support a law that outlaws tattoos as well (Leviticus 19:28)?

 

[Irishman77]

This is what cracks me up. Imagine that a Christian not accepting someone and having the belief that they know the difference between "right" and "wrong" for everyone else.

If they are Christians, they will accept him but not accept the sin of homosexuality. Knowing the difference of right and wrong is taking Gods word literally and believing it.

 

[ND-North]

Jerome is a Christian. There are many many Christians in the nfl. They won't bully him , they will just not accept what is clearly wrong.

"He that is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." How can you possibly assume that YOU have the right to decide what is inherently wrong. Jesus taught to love the sinner and not pass judgement.

 

[irishfan]

Just going to become a media circus if he goes to the wrong team. If a team like the Pats or Packers drafts him, he can probably just blend in because they have solid front offices. If he goes to one of the NY teams, it would be a mad house. I can see why a GM who doesn't have great job-security would be hesitant to draft him.

 

[nsideirish]

And as for the issue of separate showers or whatever, I think that is a preposterous notion. He's been gay his whole life (and open to his teammates the past year), and there has never been any kind of problem in the locker room. And, there are most definitely closeted gay players in all professional leagues right now and they get along fine in the showers.

 

[Brooklyn]

I do think he's going to drop in the draft for a 2 reasons outside of his size/speed/skill:

1. Media circus that will be surrounding him for a bit.
2. You know some in the locker room will feel uneasy and they want that room united.

 

[Irishman77]

Relying on Biblical text to support your views on what our government should be doing shows not only a clear lack of understanding of how our government works but also a very selective view of which Biblical texts you consider important.

For instance, if you believe the we should not allow gay marriage because it is outlaws in the Bible, would you support a law that outlaws tattoos as well (Leviticus 19:28)?

Ahh yes the old pull out the laws given in Leviticus to claim the Bible is full of contradictions....

The old covenant is very different than the new.

I have had this debate many times, but rather than fumble through it ...ironically our church had this exact discussion yesterday. Wow! Here it is...God is Great!

The Story Feb 8 & 9 | Cornerstone Christian Church

 

[Irishman77]

"He that is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." How can you possibly assume that YOU have the right to decide what is inherently wrong. Jesus taught to love the sinner and not pass judgement.

Very sorry if I gave that impression. I am in no way the one to judge. God knows i fall short every day! and completely agree with your last sentence. Thanks.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Relying on Biblical text to support your views on what our government should be doing shows not only a clear lack of understanding of how our government works but also a very selective view of which Biblical texts you consider important.

For instance, if you believe the we should not allow gay marriage because it is outlaws in the Bible, would you support a law that outlaws tattoos as well (Leviticus 19:28)?

The scripture you quote here is old covenant law. To Christians, when Jesus came to this Earth and was crucified for our sins, He fulfilled the Law of Moses and the Old Testament prophecies, therefore creating a new covenant. Christians today live under the New Testament and the new covenant. That scripture in Leviticus is therefore not applicaple to today.

 

[irishfanjho15]

If they are Christians, they will accept him but not accept the sin of homosexuality. Knowing the difference of right and wrong is taking Gods word literally and believing it.

And you're taking God's word from the Bible, correct?

 

[T Town Tommy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishman77
Jerome is a Christian. There are many many Christians in the nfl. They won't bully him , they will just not accept what is clearly wrong.

"He that is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." How can you possibly assume that YOU have the right to decide what is inherently wrong. Jesus taught to love the sinner and not pass judgement.

Not to speak for Irishman 77, but I don't believe he has decided what is right and wrong. The Apostle Paul in Corinthians clearly spelled out what was right and wrong when it comes to sexual immorality. I would think Irishman77 believes that and is simply stating it as his belief and not passing judgment.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

You are right my friend. Denominations that don't take Gods word literally have clearly confused The Word.

That includes the Catholic Church, which is partly what brings many people on this site to Notre Dame fandom.

To clarify...the Catholic Church does not teach that we should take the Bible literally.

 

[CHIDomer9]

I do think he's going to drop in the draft for a 2 reasons outside of his size/speed/skill:

1. Media circus that will be surrounding him for a bit.
2. You know some in the locker room will feel uneasy and they want that room united.

The media circus surrounded Manti as well and it may have contributed to his drop in the draft (getting run over in the NCG didn't help either). But I think the difference between the two circuses is that all this will be as a result of Michael Sam telling the truth. Manti's circus came about because he lied.

 

[tko]

Isn't there a Jesus, Bible thread?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

This is a non-issue for me. Good for him being true to himself.

 

[Brooklyn]

The media circus surrounded Manti as well and it may have contributed to his drop in the draft (getting run over in the NCG didn't help either). But I think the difference between the two circuses is that all this will be as a result of Michael Sam telling the truth. Manti's circus came about because he lied.

What did Manti lie about? (Honestly forgot most of the details about the situation)

Also this is different media circus, because this will follow him, while the Manti situation was temporary. Anything he does, he will be the first openly gay player to do that thing. First preseason game by an openly gay player, etc. Thats just an unnecessary distraction.

 

[wizards8507]

Relying on Biblical text to support your views on what our government should be doing shows not only a clear lack of understanding of how our government works but also a very selective view of which Biblical texts you consider important.

For instance, if you believe the we should not allow gay marriage because it is outlaws in the Bible, would you support a law that outlaws tattoos as well (Leviticus 19:28)?

Dafuq? Did someone say anything about "what the government should be doing"?

Since you brought it up: The government shouldn't be in the marriage game whatsoever. Straight people and gay people and blue people and short people should get married or not in whatever manner they see fit without any benefits or penalties associated with doing so.

 

[gkIrish]

Isn't there a Jesus, Bible thread?

No. But there is a God, the Bible, and Jesus thread.

 

[tko]

No. But there is a God, the Bible, and Jesus thread.

yes there is.

 

[nsideirish]

Dafuq? Did someone say anything about "what the government should be doing"?

Since you brought it up: The government shouldn't be in the marriage game whatsoever. Straight people and gay people and blue people and short people should get married or not in whatever manner they see fit without any benefits or penalties associated with doing so.

No, but people use the same justifications for looking negatively on Michael Sam that they do for the gay marriage debate. Same idiotic, Bible thumping arguments. It is tiring.

But thankfully, we, the younger generation, are opening our eyes and the social policies will be moving further and further to the left (e.g. drug legalization, gay marriage, etc.).

Hopefully Michael Sam paves the way for other professional athletes to come out and be comfortable with who they are.

 

[wizards8507]

But thankfully, we, the younger generation, are opening our eyes and the social policies will be moving further and further to the left (e.g. drug legalization, gay marriage, etc.).

Your worldview is way too narrow. It's not about "left and right" anymore, it's about "up and down" (big government versus small government). The "religious right" of Rick Santorum is disappearing in favor of a more Ron Paul-esque libertarianism. The left can't simultaneously say things like "the government doesn't belong in the bedroom" when it comes to gay marriage but then demand government-mandated birth control. We're asking the wrong questions and framing arguments like there are only two solutions. Instead of being "pro gay marriage" or "anti gay marriage," the real solution is to just make gay marriage a non-issue in politics. Eliminate marriage benefits for straight couples so that everyone is equal under the law and allow people to live their lives as they see fit.

 

[dshans]

...To clarify...the Catholic Church does not teach that we should take the Bible literally.

By and large, as a Catholic School kid in the late 50's and into the mid 70's it was presented as allegory. A teaching tool to encourage thought and exploration. It was a crap shoot.

I've never been a craps player so forgive me if this is a poor analogy, but I did learn to think and critically examine. The RCC rolled box cars with me. I never really joined the game.

I did, however, pick up the basics of "love thy neighbor" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Do I need to go all Youngbloods "Get Together" on you?

My son, 26, is one of the kindest, gentlest and most respectful persons you'd ever meet. He's an avowed atheist. Respect is not proprietary to any given religion.

This whole discussion brings to mind an episode when he was about twelve. My ex chose to enroll/enlist the lad in a Lutheran Church (as much a business decision for contacts as anything else) and as such I was taking him to services at her church of choice. One Sunday a young minister started her sermon relating a story about taking a church youth group to visit a Jewish Hospice Care Center. So far so good.

Then she proceeded to relate how one of the teens asked her "Why do they seem so sad?" She could have of pointed out the obvious: they are old, frail, destined to die soon and family and/or friends don't visit very often. Instead she went with "It's because they don't accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior."

A possible lesson in Christian love, kindness, acceptance and understanding was instantly transformed into propaganda. It took all my strength to not jump up and yell at the woman. My son was on the verge of Confirmation and was directed to take notes on the sermon and write a report. I made a point of gently twisting her words to reflect a true "Christian" message.

 

[nsideirish]

Your worldview is way too narrow. It's not about "left and right" anymore, it's about "up and down" (big government versus small government). The "religious right" of Rick Santorum is disappearing in favor of a more Ron Paul-esque libertarianism. The left can't simultaneously say things like "the government doesn't belong in the bedroom" when it comes to gay marriage but then demand government-mandated birth control. We're asking the wrong questions and framing arguments like there are only two solutions. Instead of being "pro gay marriage" or "anti gay marriage," the real solution is to just make gay marriage a non-issue in politics. Eliminate marriage benefits for straight couples so that everyone is equal under the law and allow people to live their lives as they see fit.

I probably agree with you on most things politically as I vote libertarian and was a Ron Paul supporter but I also do not believe we are even close to a true libertarian revolution in this country. So when I say the things I say on here, they are not my ideal solutions but the best option we have in the reality we live in (e.g. legalizing government recognized gay marriage instead of removing government completely from marriage).

But this is getting way off topic. My fault.

 

[wizards8507]

I probably agree with you on most things politically as I vote libertarian and was a Ron Paul supporter but I also do not believe we are even close to a true libertarian revolution in this country. So when I say the things I say on here, they are not my ideal solutions but the best option we have in the reality we live in (e.g. legalizing government recognized gay marriage instead of removing government completely from marriage).

But this is getting way off topic. My fault.

We could just all move to New Hampshire.

Free State Project | Liberty in Our Lifetime

 

[T Town Tommy]

Coming out through some tweets from Sam's roommate that some Mizzou players had issues with this contrary to what Pinkel said yesterday in the ESPN article. I didn't see the tweets but according to what Mike and Mike said this morning his roommate basically said that some of the teammates talked pretty bad about Sam behind his back.

Gary Pinkel proud of Missouri Tigers for accepting Michael Sam - ESPN

 

[GoIrish41]

I think this kids guts are amazing. When he gets drafted, and he will get drafted, I'm sure he won't be the only gay player in the NFL ... just the one with enough courage to admit it. He will be an asset to any team he plays for.

 

[DillonHall]

I think this kids guts are amazing. When he gets drafted, and he will get drafted, I'm sure he won't be the only gay player in the NFL ... just the one with enough courage to admit it. He will be an asset to any team he plays for.

He'll be an asset IF he's a good player, not merely because he's brave enough to announce that he's gay.